Even if it reduced 30% of all damage it wouldn't mitigate damage as GWFs and GFs do. Shield is very far for being a "tank power".
The OPness of CWs is totally unrelated to the Shield; what you see right now is a useless power now being able to do something.
It's not like I'm new to pvp and i spent weeks on test server with many top pvp cw players and have tested on live and yes shield makes them like a tank since most pvp cw go for high hp too.
I am conq path with near 4k power 2.5k arm pen and vorpal enchant, that's a lot of dmg for a gf and me using griffons wrath, anvil of doom and lunging strike hardly marked a cw I was testing with a few days ago, his shield didn't even break......
even using knights challenge for tests it still doesn't do that much to cw players so go and test for yourself before saying its not a "tank power" because combined with skill and high hp it is insanely tanky.
But don't get me wrong, I am happy cw got buff, if there dmg was fixed a little and shield was about 30% weaker I would be happy. The problem is they hit me through block is my shield is pointless fighting a cw and even though I have 47k hp I die in 5 seconds plus if I manage to get a prone off and full rotation i only just break there shield so by time I get the chance again I'm either dead or there shield is back.
This is getting ridiculous. I am a BiS PvP CW playing since the first day of beta! Other classes are able to kill me in 1v1. It is just not possible to do it by blindly smashing keys (which it was before M4). People just have to learn the CW mechanics and know when to do what. You won't use your daily on a GWF in Unstoppable or a TR in ITC, will you?
These "Nerf class X with power Y OP" threads should be forbidden without video + ACT data + constructive arguments. "Class X kills me with power Y, but I was invincible in M3, OMFG OP NERF NERF NERF!" is not a constructive argument.
I am conq path with near 4k power 2.5k arm pen and vorpal enchant, that's a lot of dmg for a gf and me using griffons wrath, anvil of doom and lunging strike hardly marked a cw I was testing with a few days ago, his shield didn't even break......
lol the CW shield doesn't actually "break", you know this right?
This is getting ridiculous. I am a BiS PvP CW playing since the first day of beta! Other classes are able to kill me in 1v1. It is just not possible to do it by blindly smashing keys (which it was before M4). People just have to learn the CW mechanics and know when to do what. You won't use your daily on a GWF in Unstoppable or a TR in ITC, will you?
These "Nerf class X with power Y OP" threads should be forbidden without video + ACT data + constructive arguments. "Class X kills me with power Y, but I was invincible in M3, OMFG OP NERF NERF NERF!" is not a constructive argument.
Someone give this thread a "3.15" label please.
Neverwinter PVP:
If you can't beat them in the arena, then beat them in the forums by getting them nerfed.
I'm currently not even running with shield and doing better than when I was. If you're running into a tanky-feeling CW, I think it has more to do with stacking HP/regen than it does shield. BI gear has some crazy hp/regen stats on it.
WK is not viable in PVP, if you get caught once you're pretty much screwed. There is no way you could hold a node against 2+ people effectively like MI does.
So much WK hate. But yea WK isn't going to be a node contester like a MI, even if you are "perma wk", without ITC you will always be snagged at least once, and right now that hurts a lot.
But then again, if you are trying to play a WK like you would play a MI than you are doing it wrong. If you are using DF as a WK, you are doing it wrong.
And yes OP my TR is a WK, you really just need more defenses (HP, Deflect, Life Steal, Regen etc..)
WK is a better team combat player than a MI. But MI is better contester and back capper and 1vs(number here) fighter. All because of their one paragon power.
As a WK you want to pressure the CW and make him waste time Dodging because you don't have to be close but he doesn't know that. You can tag a DisStrike and some CoS from stealth and sit back and watch him dodge around because he will always assume there is a MI near him about to daze him and land some DF's. Use people preconceptions and narrow ideas of what they are fighting against them.
But yea definitely get more Defenses going on. Barkshield Enchant is highly recommended.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] PVPer rocking it Solo queue style since the dawn of Neverwinter
It's not like I'm new to pvp and i spent weeks on test server with many top pvp cw players and have tested on live and yes shield makes them like a tank since most pvp cw go for high hp too.
I am conq path with near 4k power 2.5k arm pen and vorpal enchant, that's a lot of dmg for a gf and me using griffons wrath, anvil of doom and lunging strike hardly marked a cw I was testing with a few days ago, his shield didn't even break......
even using knights challenge for tests it still doesn't do that much to cw players so go and test for yourself before saying its not a "tank power" because combined with skill and high hp it is insanely tanky.
Still doesn't make the user as tanky as a Fighter.
CWs can't stack deflection and we use wet toilet paper as armor. Even with 20% tenacity and Shield we can still receive 15k+ damage (e.g. IBS), and this doesn't happen with other classes because they're able to stack deflection and have at least 2 more survival tools, while we have none but shift.
Even with Shield, if you succesfully hit us with 1 CC you can end us with 1 combo. If this power is nerfed again no one is going to use it, just like before the last update.
most likely they will close this thread as well but whatever
1) before this patch HR were extremely strong, you need good party with burst damage to kill one. last phase valindra was peace of cake compare to some HR
2) before the patch GWF had way too much control and damage (they still have lot of damage)
3) none of the above justify CW to be so strong.
it doesn't make sense that normal ice knife will do more damage then full crit execution, not to mention it prone you and that CW gain almost twice AP then TR
oppressive force can take half the hp of almost any class
1:1 its impossible to even move when facing CW
there are other classes that cannot play PVP for months now (I play DC and please don't start with "some DC are hard to kill...", hard doesn't count as 2 more mouse clicks)
TR are also one hit kill now
tenacity doesn't help with the high damage classes have now, to be honest nothing helps
its either you chose the current OP class, or you die
skill, GS, boons, build, armor, weapon etc. means nothing in PVP for months now
you guys need to think what went wrong in module 3 and start from there
0
adernathMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
oppressive force can take half the hp of almost any class
From all dailies the TRs have the strongest one with whirlwind of blades.
Suggestions to improve NW:
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
So, what's special here? All I see is a CW going full DoT and low Power. Sudden Storm 5k on average in a CN run? This must be a very low Power CW solely built for DoTs. Which is OK. And his DPS is OK. It's just less than if a high Power CW would run it. He's not even using Chill Strike on TAB. So yes, the CW chose low damage DoT powers with Plague Fire that don't deal damage by themselves, but proc Assailant and Storm Spell a lot.
That's why the biggest part of his damage came from Storm Spell + Assailant. With the right setup (low enough Power), you can make Assailant + Storm Spell deal over 90% of your overall damage.
Still doesn't make the user as tanky as a Fighter.
CWs can't stack deflection and we use wet toilet paper as armor. Even with 20% tenacity and Shield we can still receive 15k+ damage (e.g. IBS), and this doesn't happen with other classes because they're able to stack deflection and have at least 2 more survival tools, while we have none but shift.
Even with Shield, if you succesfully hit us with 1 CC you can end us with 1 combo. If this power is nerfed again no one is going to use it, just like before the last update.
Same type of argument GWF used module 2-3. All you have to do is Dodge our big hits and wait for unstop to go over its a l2p issue, peeps who are having problem with GWF just dont understand class mechanics.
If you try to defend the current state of CWs both in pve and pvp you have absolutly no interrest of balance what so ever and just want to stay OP.(or you are seriously clueless).
If you play 10+ pugs you know exactly how OP CWs are atm and trying to use some twisted facts about some non existent situations does not change anything.
The really bad part about this is, that not only have CWs been totally dominating PVE since start making them the true farmboots for dungeons getting them the best gear faster then any other class now they also dominate PVP making them the single most OP class this game has seen overshadowing any other class.
Anybody that tries to defend this with redicules situation proves just have partial or nobish they are.
Never have a class had so many playing it say its way out of hand and need a nerf that should say alot about its current state....
I am tried of complaint how OP CW is.
What I want to say is if developer give us a change class token, I want to join CW, so every one can enough this OP
and cause no one like do all stupid campaign again and again.
After that, it will be 1 class game, and it will be FPS game. who start first, who win.
only way to stay alive, either kill cw before they start their power, or run away.
You have no ITC, no CC escape, nothing to counter Icy Rays but tankyness. Before we had bugged PvP set/Meditation is ready, now all gone. I feel your pain as I pretty much shelved my HR.
We have been trying in the HR feedback forums to ask for Marauders to provide CC escapes, but nobody listened.
CW was the natural prey to a HR in Module 3. Things are changed now, although HRs are still tanky, and deal a huge amount of damage when they get close. I assume every serious PvPer is Combat now since you cannot survive in the other two paths.
"Control Wizards filled too many roles in groups and were more often than not the “right” choice for a group over other class, and this was very frustrating for people who played other classes. Given this we took a long look at how powerful their AoE was and how their various powers compared to each other. We decided to rebalance most of their powers to be more competitive with each other and much more in line with other classes."
"Overall the changes will leave Control Wizards with more direct competition in group content and will let them more strongly fill the position of controlling all the foes on the battle field or doing heavy damage, but not both at once."
or combat designer does not have a clue about the impact of their changes or he... lie for your playerbase. no "double checks" about it.
Go watch on youtube what happens when a dev team bis geared rank 10 etc faces a player team in pvp, that should give you some clue about how much understanding of the game mechanics devs have ......
Still doesn't make the user as tanky as a Fighter.
CWs can't stack deflection and we use wet toilet paper as armor. Even with 20% tenacity and Shield we can still receive 15k+ damage (e.g. IBS), and this doesn't happen with other classes because they're able to stack deflection and have at least 2 more survival tools, while we have none but shift.
Even with Shield, if you succesfully hit us with 1 CC you can end us with 1 combo. If this power is nerfed again no one is going to use it, just like before the last update.
Your not understanding what I'm saying. I get what you mean yes the wizard is not as tanky as a gf or gwf, what I mean is, the shield makes the wizard too tanky in some PVP situations. I am also talking about half decent pvp wizards not new players there is a difference. When I meet a high hp good wizard in dom I do my rotation and it only just diminishes his shield, and when my powers are ready again, so is his shield and not many players last long against a cw now anyway so what I'm saying is that shield + cw crazy dmg is too much.
I have tested this much with friends and other players and every cw I test with agrees that shield gives too high dr resistance. Most cw say the class is overpowered now and they don't find it fun anymore.
Your not understanding what I'm saying. I get what you mean yes the wizard is not as tanky as a gf or gwf, what I mean is, the shield makes the wizard too tanky in some PVP situations. I am also talking about half decent pvp wizards not new players there is a difference. When I meet a high hp good wizard in dom I do my rotation and it only just diminishes his shield, and when my powers are ready again, so is his shield and not many players last long against a cw now anyway so what I'm saying is that shield + cw crazy dmg is too much.
I have tested this much with friends and other players and every cw I test with agrees that shield gives too high dr resistance. Most cw say the class is overpowered now and they don't find it fun anymore.
Click on my name and check my last posts. You'll see that I also think CWs are OP, but it's all because of what they did to the feats and class features, the CW OPness has NOTHING to do with Shield, it's just an average power right now, if it's nerfed just a little bit more it'll be useless.
We're OP because of CC and damage. We're still very delicate, even with Shield.
I don't know if it was in this thread or in another but someone mentioned crazy damage in general (not just any particular class) and I have also observed this too. I have been parsing more and just did a Vilitrhax kill on my TR and when I checked the results on ACT, the top damage was a DC with crits of 120k with guardian of faith and 77.5k with lance of faith. Now another thing to consider is that the level for this DC is 4 (what the heck???).
Your not understanding what I'm saying. I get what you mean yes the wizard is not as tanky as a gf or gwf, what I mean is, the shield makes the wizard too tanky in some PVP situations. I am also talking about half decent pvp wizards not new players there is a difference. When I meet a high hp good wizard in dom I do my rotation and it only just diminishes his shield, and when my powers are ready again, so is his shield and not many players last long against a cw now anyway so what I'm saying is that shield + cw crazy dmg is too much.
I have tested this much with friends and other players and every cw I test with agrees that shield gives too high dr resistance. Most cw say the class is overpowered now and they don't find it fun anymore.
It feels like your nitpicking for the sake of it now though. Shield isn't the problem. Remember that pre-mod4, shield was useless, and now that it's decent people are using it (it has already been nerfed pre-live). Remember though it does take up an encounter slot, so it's survivability vs. DPS choice for the CW (and because most use Choke, it leaves only 2 offensive options).
If Storm Spell get's dialed back down, then CW will be in a fairly competitive, but not OP position.
I don't know if it was in this thread or in another but someone mentioned crazy damage in general (not just any particular class) and I have also observed this too. I have been parsing more and just did a Vilitrhax kill on my TR and when I checked the results on ACT, the top damage was a DC with crits of 120k with guardian of faith and 77.5k with lance of faith. Now another thing to consider is that the level for this DC is 4 (what the heck???).
That isn't what I am saying, either Act is failing to parse correctly (I saved the log), or low level damage is being boosted up too much (can a level 4 get to Whispering?), or some insane buffs or other bugs are modifying damage incorrectly.
That isn't what I am saying, either Act is failing to parse correctly (I saved the log), or low level damage is being boosted up too much (can a level 4 get to Whispering?), or some insane buffs or other bugs are modifying damage incorrectly.
It feels like your nitpicking for the sake of it now though. Shield isn't the problem. Remember that pre-mod4, shield was useless, and now that it's decent people are using it (it has already been nerfed pre-live). Remember though it does take up an encounter slot, so it's survivability vs. DPS choice for the CW (and because most use Choke, it leaves only 2 offensive options).
If Storm Spell get's dialed back down, then CW will be in a fairly competitive, but not OP position.
I'm not saying shield is the problem, I'm saying, combined with the dmg a cw can deal it makes them way too strong. The shield has protected some cw about 20 -30k dmg from my hits so yes having that huge defense buff is fine but not when they have the best dmg in the game too. I am glad that cw got a buff, I don't and never have played cw but I was on cw feedback thread asking for buffs because I felt they wasn't good enough for pvp, now they just need a little tone down.
I'm not saying shield is the problem, I'm saying, combined with the dmg a cw can deal it makes them way too strong. The shield has protected some cw about 20 -30k dmg from my hits so yes having that huge defense buff is fine but not when they have the best dmg in the game too. I am glad that cw got a buff, I don't and never have played cw but I was on cw feedback thread asking for buffs because I felt they wasn't good enough for pvp, now they just need a little tone down.
Just hit them with something soft to diminish the shield before you hit them with the heavy hitters.
Comments
It's not like I'm new to pvp and i spent weeks on test server with many top pvp cw players and have tested on live and yes shield makes them like a tank since most pvp cw go for high hp too.
I am conq path with near 4k power 2.5k arm pen and vorpal enchant, that's a lot of dmg for a gf and me using griffons wrath, anvil of doom and lunging strike hardly marked a cw I was testing with a few days ago, his shield didn't even break......
even using knights challenge for tests it still doesn't do that much to cw players so go and test for yourself before saying its not a "tank power" because combined with skill and high hp it is insanely tanky.
But don't get me wrong, I am happy cw got buff, if there dmg was fixed a little and shield was about 30% weaker I would be happy. The problem is they hit me through block is my shield is pointless fighting a cw and even though I have 47k hp I die in 5 seconds plus if I manage to get a prone off and full rotation i only just break there shield so by time I get the chance again I'm either dead or there shield is back.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
These "Nerf class X with power Y OP" threads should be forbidden without video + ACT data + constructive arguments. "Class X kills me with power Y, but I was invincible in M3, OMFG OP NERF NERF NERF!" is not a constructive argument.
Someone give this thread a "3.15" label please.
lol the CW shield doesn't actually "break", you know this right?
Neverwinter PVP:
If you can't beat them in the arena, then beat them in the forums by getting them nerfed.
So much WK hate. But yea WK isn't going to be a node contester like a MI, even if you are "perma wk", without ITC you will always be snagged at least once, and right now that hurts a lot.
But then again, if you are trying to play a WK like you would play a MI than you are doing it wrong. If you are using DF as a WK, you are doing it wrong.
And yes OP my TR is a WK, you really just need more defenses (HP, Deflect, Life Steal, Regen etc..)
WK is a better team combat player than a MI. But MI is better contester and back capper and 1vs(number here) fighter. All because of their one paragon power.
As a WK you want to pressure the CW and make him waste time Dodging because you don't have to be close but he doesn't know that. You can tag a DisStrike and some CoS from stealth and sit back and watch him dodge around because he will always assume there is a MI near him about to daze him and land some DF's. Use people preconceptions and narrow ideas of what they are fighting against them.
But yea definitely get more Defenses going on. Barkshield Enchant is highly recommended.
PVPer rocking it Solo queue style since the dawn of Neverwinter
Still doesn't make the user as tanky as a Fighter.
CWs can't stack deflection and we use wet toilet paper as armor. Even with 20% tenacity and Shield we can still receive 15k+ damage (e.g. IBS), and this doesn't happen with other classes because they're able to stack deflection and have at least 2 more survival tools, while we have none but shift.
Even with Shield, if you succesfully hit us with 1 CC you can end us with 1 combo. If this power is nerfed again no one is going to use it, just like before the last update.
Not only you misunderstood his post, but also only linked parses issued before the nerf/fix to the Storm Spell bug.
1) before this patch HR were extremely strong, you need good party with burst damage to kill one. last phase valindra was peace of cake compare to some HR
2) before the patch GWF had way too much control and damage (they still have lot of damage)
3) none of the above justify CW to be so strong.
it doesn't make sense that normal ice knife will do more damage then full crit execution, not to mention it prone you and that CW gain almost twice AP then TR
oppressive force can take half the hp of almost any class
1:1 its impossible to even move when facing CW
there are other classes that cannot play PVP for months now (I play DC and please don't start with "some DC are hard to kill...", hard doesn't count as 2 more mouse clicks)
TR are also one hit kill now
tenacity doesn't help with the high damage classes have now, to be honest nothing helps
its either you chose the current OP class, or you die
skill, GS, boons, build, armor, weapon etc. means nothing in PVP for months now
you guys need to think what went wrong in module 3 and start from there
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
So, what's special here? All I see is a CW going full DoT and low Power. Sudden Storm 5k on average in a CN run? This must be a very low Power CW solely built for DoTs. Which is OK. And his DPS is OK. It's just less than if a high Power CW would run it. He's not even using Chill Strike on TAB. So yes, the CW chose low damage DoT powers with Plague Fire that don't deal damage by themselves, but proc Assailant and Storm Spell a lot.
That's why the biggest part of his damage came from Storm Spell + Assailant. With the right setup (low enough Power), you can make Assailant + Storm Spell deal over 90% of your overall damage.
How does this make the CW OP?
Same type of argument GWF used module 2-3. All you have to do is Dodge our big hits and wait for unstop to go over its a l2p issue, peeps who are having problem with GWF just dont understand class mechanics.
If you try to defend the current state of CWs both in pve and pvp you have absolutly no interrest of balance what so ever and just want to stay OP.(or you are seriously clueless).
If you play 10+ pugs you know exactly how OP CWs are atm and trying to use some twisted facts about some non existent situations does not change anything.
The really bad part about this is, that not only have CWs been totally dominating PVE since start making them the true farmboots for dungeons getting them the best gear faster then any other class now they also dominate PVP making them the single most OP class this game has seen overshadowing any other class.
Anybody that tries to defend this with redicules situation proves just have partial or nobish they are.
Never have a class had so many playing it say its way out of hand and need a nerf that should say alot about its current state....
i have 39K HP,
17K gs, HR,
When CW CC me, no difference, die in 3 sec.
only way to stay alive, either kill cw before they start their power, or run away.
What I want to say is if developer give us a change class token, I want to join CW, so every one can enough this OP
and cause no one like do all stupid campaign again and again.
After that, it will be 1 class game, and it will be FPS game. who start first, who win.
Really funny one
You have no ITC, no CC escape, nothing to counter Icy Rays but tankyness. Before we had bugged PvP set/Meditation is ready, now all gone. I feel your pain as I pretty much shelved my HR.
We have been trying in the HR feedback forums to ask for Marauders to provide CC escapes, but nobody listened.
CW was the natural prey to a HR in Module 3. Things are changed now, although HRs are still tanky, and deal a huge amount of damage when they get close. I assume every serious PvPer is Combat now since you cannot survive in the other two paths.
"Control Wizards filled too many roles in groups and were more often than not the “right” choice for a group over other class, and this was very frustrating for people who played other classes. Given this we took a long look at how powerful their AoE was and how their various powers compared to each other. We decided to rebalance most of their powers to be more competitive with each other and much more in line with other classes."
"Overall the changes will leave Control Wizards with more direct competition in group content and will let them more strongly fill the position of controlling all the foes on the battle field or doing heavy damage, but not both at once."
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/neverwinter/news/detail/6008053-module-4-dev-blog%3A-class-balancing
or combat designer does not have a clue about the impact of their changes or he... lie for your playerbase. no "double checks" about it?
Go watch on youtube what happens when a dev team bis geared rank 10 etc faces a player team in pvp, that should give you some clue about how much understanding of the game mechanics devs have ......
Wow I'm so sorry for not using the right word even though you knew exactly what I meant, thanks for correcting me.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Your not understanding what I'm saying. I get what you mean yes the wizard is not as tanky as a gf or gwf, what I mean is, the shield makes the wizard too tanky in some PVP situations. I am also talking about half decent pvp wizards not new players there is a difference. When I meet a high hp good wizard in dom I do my rotation and it only just diminishes his shield, and when my powers are ready again, so is his shield and not many players last long against a cw now anyway so what I'm saying is that shield + cw crazy dmg is too much.
I have tested this much with friends and other players and every cw I test with agrees that shield gives too high dr resistance. Most cw say the class is overpowered now and they don't find it fun anymore.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Click on my name and check my last posts. You'll see that I also think CWs are OP, but it's all because of what they did to the feats and class features, the CW OPness has NOTHING to do with Shield, it's just an average power right now, if it's nerfed just a little bit more it'll be useless.
We're OP because of CC and damage. We're still very delicate, even with Shield.
It feels like your nitpicking for the sake of it now though. Shield isn't the problem. Remember that pre-mod4, shield was useless, and now that it's decent people are using it (it has already been nerfed pre-live). Remember though it does take up an encounter slot, so it's survivability vs. DPS choice for the CW (and because most use Choke, it leaves only 2 offensive options).
If Storm Spell get's dialed back down, then CW will be in a fairly competitive, but not OP position.
DC's OP. Nerf em.
That isn't what I am saying, either Act is failing to parse correctly (I saved the log), or low level damage is being boosted up too much (can a level 4 get to Whispering?), or some insane buffs or other bugs are modifying damage incorrectly.
Nope too late, nerf em.
I'm not saying shield is the problem, I'm saying, combined with the dmg a cw can deal it makes them way too strong. The shield has protected some cw about 20 -30k dmg from my hits so yes having that huge defense buff is fine but not when they have the best dmg in the game too. I am glad that cw got a buff, I don't and never have played cw but I was on cw feedback thread asking for buffs because I felt they wasn't good enough for pvp, now they just need a little tone down.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Just hit them with something soft to diminish the shield before you hit them with the heavy hitters.