GS is for people that don't know how to play. It's quite simple.
Sure, all high GS players are dumb and all low GS players are geniuses.
Stop.saying.GS.means.nothing.
It does. It can keep you out of groups, which is the reason for this thread. GS is a guideline and a quick reference. Nobody is psychic, nor do they have time for deep, meaningful interviews to determine your quality as a player.
They just want to get in the dungeon and get their loot.
14k+ groups clear VT every hour. 11k groups wipe. Some of us in this thread are going to have to acknowledge the fact the at least some players with low gear scores suck in dungeons.
I've found three things prevalent in players with low gears scores:
A: They either don't have a lot of time played on that character or
B: They have limited experience in dungeons or
C: they don't know how to get a higher gear score which also falls under the knowing-how-to-play umbrella
GS is easy to get, you just have to put in time on dailies and know what you want. For instance enchants you can get dropping for you if you have max boons in Sharandar. just get 3 lesser fey blessing enchants and slot them in. Sell the extras for 50k+ each, you can get one per day. You'll have rank 7's in no time. Artifacts you can also get easy with the Icewind Dale quest. Upgrading the artifacts can be done with...............fey blessing enchants which are 25k+ refinement points each, which if you do your sharandar dailies you can get quite a few piled up, I had 95 saved up for mod 4. My rule of thumb is dropped enchants upgrade the same and fey blessings upgrade artifacts.
Black Ice gear can also upgrade your GS, that falls under Icewind dailies. Dread ring can get you refinement supplies.
I take low GS people from my guild into dungeons as soon as they hit 60 to get set pieces; in the process they get basic dungeon knowledge of how to play their class. From there I tell them about dailies and gearing themselves and they take it from there. Within a couple of months, nobody is going to have a lower GS than 14k.
Venril Sathir- CW
Venril- SW
Lurch- GF
Mini Ven- DC
One of the most fun dungeon delves I have done in this game was done recently. It took a couple hours, but it was fun. I was only around 13K gs at the time, but I joined a group in Mad Dragon where noone was over 9.5K gs. All of them were new, but they were also all very nice and intelligent people. We wiped a few times, but got through the dungeon. Was this efficient? No, but fun isn't always about efficiency.
Gear score is just a number. Always remember that. If you only care about speed and efficiency then yeah, continue doing that, but I won't be grouping with you most likely.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
... Tired of running dungeons with exploiters and cheaters? Join the legit channel by visiting http://goo.gl/1zfnTS to apply!
Performing ritual pony sacrifices to Tiamat to earn favor with the RNG Gods since 2014.
...
PvP: Go with a 9k GWF against a 19k high HP/ regen GWF. the 9k guy will have a problem to out dps the regen of the other guy and likely get killed in one rotation. GS is not everything, but depending on class and build you die in seconds with low GS fighting a high GS player.
PvE: Class, build and skill matter. More GS is not allways better, BUT 11k GS for VT is undoable, if you dont have a strong group carrying you. So if someone complains about getting kicked out of VT with 11k GS I woud say, that he should show me a group of 11k players killing her and I would condem the behaviour of his party. I am done with T2 for all of my chars and I just run it to help out friends. I helped a TR to get his T2 set and we invited allmost anyone to the party to fill up the ranks, bc. my 16.7k GS CW can allmost solo T2. Try that with 11k GS.
You are not playing alone. The run takes the time of 5 ppl. I never kicked someone from a run, exept afk or lying about his gear. If I dont know a player I have to judge him on what I see and that is GS. Good CWs with legendary artefacts on CN farmruns out dps my CW. In some PUG runs my CW deals more dmg than all of the other players combined (including runs with multiple other CWs). Build matters, class matters, skill matters, gear matters, BUT GS (if spent right) matters too. If you want to do VT or CN, you should either have friends helping you or be up for the task, but not complain about 'elitist' players who spent most likely hours to farm their gear, if they want ppl with similar gear for the run.
my SW gear score has just reached 12k and I can't get an invite for a dungeon run other than PK to save my life, so it does mean something, if for the wrong reason.
from a PvE perspective, which is what I mostly play, I think what is more important than the GS itself, is what attributes are contributing to it.
ironically, when I do get invited into a party, I'm more often than not either at the sharp end in terms of damage dealt, or close.
my SW gear score has just reached 12k and I can't get an invite for a dungeon run other than PK to save my life, so it does mean something, if for the wrong reason.
from a PvE perspective, which is what I mostly play, I think what is more important than the GS itself, is what attributes are contributing to it.
ironically, when I do get invited into a party, I'm more often than not either at the sharp end in terms of damage dealt, or close.
Issues like this are partially why the legit channel exists. Come join us! we're friendly and we'll take you pretty much anywhere. If you're new to the game (which I don't think you are) then let us know and we'll help you learn.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
... Tired of running dungeons with exploiters and cheaters? Join the legit channel by visiting http://goo.gl/1zfnTS to apply!
Performing ritual pony sacrifices to Tiamat to earn favor with the RNG Gods since 2014.
...
Issues like this are partially why the legit channel exists. Come join us! we're friendly and we'll take you pretty much anywhere. If you're new to the game (which I don't think you are) then let us know and we'll help you learn.
not new, but haven't used that channel, never really knew it existed.
Sure, all high GS players are dumb and all low GS players are geniuses.
Stop.saying.GS.means.nothing.
It does. It can keep you out of groups, which is the reason for this thread. GS is a guideline and a quick reference. Nobody is psychic, nor do they have time for deep, meaningful interviews to determine your quality as a player.
They just want to get in the dungeon and get their loot.
14k+ groups clear VT every hour. 11k groups wipe. Some of us in this thread are going to have to acknowledge the fact the at least some players with low gear scores suck in dungeons.
I've found three things prevalent in players with low gears scores:
A: They either don't have a lot of time played on that character or
B: They have limited experience in dungeons or
C: they don't know how to get a higher gear score which also falls under the knowing-how-to-play umbrella
GS is easy to get, you just have to put in time on dailies and know what you want. For instance enchants you can get dropping for you if you have max boons in Sharandar. just get 3 lesser fey blessing enchants and slot them in. Sell the extras for 50k+ each, you can get one per day. You'll have rank 7's in no time. Artifacts you can also get easy with the Icewind Dale quest. Upgrading the artifacts can be done with...............fey blessing enchants which are 25k+ refinement points each, which if you do your sharandar dailies you can get quite a few piled up, I had 95 saved up for mod 4. My rule of thumb is dropped enchants upgrade the same and fey blessings upgrade artifacts.
Black Ice gear can also upgrade your GS, that falls under Icewind dailies. Dread ring can get you refinement supplies.
I take low GS people from my guild into dungeons as soon as they hit 60 to get set pieces; in the process they get basic dungeon knowledge of how to play their class. From there I tell them about dailies and gearing themselves and they take it from there. Within a couple of months, nobody is going to have a lower GS than 14k.
I have been playing for over a year. Being a casual player, my highest GS is 13k and my other toons are all in the 12k range. If I had the cash resources, I could easily buy 3 purple artifacts and jack it up. But what does that really do to my character's survivability and damage potential? Not that much.
I have personally witnessed players with 11k GS compete with those with 15k GS. There were even real-game examples given in this thread.
GS is not meaningless, but some people put way too much emphasis on it. If a dungeon calls for a minimum GS of 11k, then obviously it is possible (according to the game developers) that someone with that GS can succeed reasonably well. Sadly, some players only care about getting the dungeon done ASAP to get loot and not having fun playing. That extra 2 minutes added to the dungeon is just too much burden to bear. Awwww.
Being a casual player, I cannot take your advice and do all sorts of daily stuff. I usually only have enough time in the day to do one set of dailies on a couple of toons. The other toons have to wait until another day. Some of us just have a lot of stuff to do in REAL life and don't commit their lives to a game. I've been there in the past with other MMOs and realized that it is just freaking pixels. When you die, can you take any of this with you?
I am basically just tired of me and my son being kicked from dungeon runs that WE started by some arrogant, greedy 19k+ GS butt wipes and wanted to discuss it. Heck, my son's GS is lower than mine but he can outplay me easily!!
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!" pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all." looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
I am another that believe that GS to an extent means nothing. One of my alts, a DC named lania, has a 11.6k gs. She wears the High Prophet for dungeons (Because thats what people want her to wear even though I have the miracle set, beacon of faith set and the Prophet Champion set as well) I know her in and out. If we have more than 5 deaths total from everyone put together then it was a bad run. The only people that really die are the ones that run in and not wait for set up thinking they can kill everything before I am even in the room.
Everyone that runs dungeons with her tell me I did an excellent job and they friend request her. She isn't my main so I don't max her out. She has r6 in all her gear, 3 blue artifacts, 3 boons each from dread and sharandar, 1 boon from IWD. Could I work on her and jack up her GS to 15-16k? Sure. But I don't want to. I have no problems healing incoming damage and buffing everyone and debuffing bosses and other baddies.
I use her when the guild needs a DC or if I'm bored with my 2 mains and want to have some fun. I love that class and it's a lot of fun to play. I just don't give a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> about her GS.
I have never gotten kicked out of a party with her YET.
A funny side note. Some guy was spamming in PE LFG 15k+ gs for FH run. I told him gs didn't matter and I would get the job done. That high of a GS was not needed. I have done FH about 100 times at this point and know it well. He finally decides to invite me after 10 minutes of not getting a full party. I inspected the guy and he had a 9.6k gs. I laughed and quit the party.
If you're going to be an elitist and make 15k GS parties, have it yourself.
I saw a forum post yesterday with a screenshot of someone with a gear score of over 60k. And the guy only had rank 7 enchants with some slots empty. But mostly black ice gear. The consensus was that a gear score over over 70k was possible.
I saw a forum post yesterday with a screenshot of someone with a gear score of over 60k. And the guy only had rank 7 enchants with some slots empty. But mostly black ice gear. The consensus was that a gear score over over 70k was possible.
Hit Points (HP) or Gear Score (GS)? 60k gear score is impossible. The highest you could get would be 21 - 22k. If we are talking HP, a GF can very easily reach 60k.
I'm not an elitist, but there are certain dungeons where I'd prefer to group with players above a certain GS. But that ''demand'' is low as I consider anybody above 12k GS capable of completing everything, with the exception of CN. If there are at least 3 of us who are well-geared then I don't mind taking another 2 who may be considered ''weak''. I would not feel confident with undergeared DPS classes in a place like TOS, CN or VT where you have to race Syndryth's healing, deal with add spwan or Valindra's caskets.
I use Legit now, but that is because Legit seems to be the home of people that can play, so I am not concerned about GS there. If someone asks for a VT or CN group in there then I am 95% certain that they know what they are doing.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
I have been playing for over a year. Being a casual player, my highest GS is 13k and my other toons are all in the 12k range. If I had the cash resources, I could easily buy 3 purple artifacts and jack it up. But what does that really do to my character's survivability and damage potential? Not that much.
You have *multiple* level 60's, all in the 12k range? Define "casual". The majority of players in my guild that have only an hour or so to play a night or log on with their kids. Very few have time to level multiple toons to 60....Icewind Dale Artifact quest is 30 minutes maximum and you only do it once for each class. Then you go to the reward claims agent and find you now have class artifacts available account wide.
GS is not meaningless, but some people put way too much emphasis on it. If a dungeon calls for a minimum GS of 11k, then obviously it is possible (according to the game developers) that someone with that GS can succeed reasonably well. Sadly, some players only care about getting the dungeon done ASAP to get loot and not having fun playing. That extra 2 minutes added to the dungeon is just too much burden to bear. Awwww..
It's not always about finishing a dungeon ASAP. I personally insist on no terrain exploits or jumping and fighting all content. Sometimes guys just don't want to wipe over and over. When that happens people usually yell and insult each other, etc. There are very few peaceful repeated wipes.
Being a casual player, I cannot take your advice and do all sorts of daily stuff. I usually only have enough time in the day to do one set of dailies on a couple of toons. The other toons have to wait until another day...
So do only one set of dailies on a couple toons.........just do the right dailies. Do arcane reservoir once a week on every toon.........you don't have to do ALL sharandar dailies, just do enough to get fey blessings......2 blessings a week on only 2 toons= 16 in a month.
Some of us just have a lot of stuff to do in REAL life and don't commit their lives to a game. I've been there in the past with other MMOs and realized that it is just freaking pixels. When you die, can you take any of this with you?
And stop assuming you're the only one with kids and responsibilities, there are people behind the keyboards with lives just like you.
I am basically just tired of me and my son being kicked from dungeon runs that WE started by some arrogant, greedy 19k+ GS butt wipes and wanted to discuss it. Heck, my son's GS is lower than mine but he can outplay me easily!!
The way you describe it, you're only introducing new members after the dungeon run already wiped, correct? If you're a casual player and don't have time for wiping over and over, it would be a good idea to not assume that someone with a low GS is a good player. The high GS person that just joined your group may be just as casual as you, and knowing that your group just wiped probably doesn't want the hassle of wiping again. So how to avoid this?
Forming group that wipe is entirely your fault. Since you don't pay attention to GS you accept the consequences. And after a year you should know what questions to ask. For instance:
Does everyone know how to do this dungeon with your present toon? Nothing wrong with asking anyone in your group this question.
Venril Sathir- CW
Venril- SW
Lurch- GF
Mini Ven- DC
I have been playing for over a year. Being a casual player, my highest GS is 13k and my other toons are all in the 12k range. If I had the cash resources, I could easily buy 3 purple artifacts and jack it up. But what does that really do to my character's survivability and damage potential? Not that much.
I could never understand why people chose to spend their time and money to have 5 bad geared characters, do 5 sets of boring dailies and then complain about their GS and not being invited to groups. Focus on one character, learn how to play it, gear it good and see if people will invite you. (please don’t get offended by this, but I’m tired of everyday the same complains from people who play much more time than me and still use their blue gears and quest pets and hit repel in middle of pull in CN). One year ago when I first lvled to 60, the same day I had 11k GS on my healer (not the best set, not a good build, no enchants), so 1 year later you just can’t afford to have 12k on character that you spend time on when we got artifacts and boons that give so much more stats.
I do believe that GS doesn’t matter, but I wouldn’t invite you if you have 10k GS put in the wrong stats, quest cleric pet and no artifacts. This just shows me that the person didn’t spend any time playing and learning what he need for his class and gearing it. Yet if I see 17k GS CW with wrong pve set, stats put in all wrong places just so he can get THE OMG HIGH GS, I wouldn’t have better opinion for his game knowledge and skills. Still the problem is I can’t really look for ‘skilled people’ in LFG (trust me, I tried and people get offended if I simply ask them anything other than their precious GS), so I ask for 14k-15k+ and I hope by the time they spend on getting that GS, they could learn what they have to do in dungeon.
Don’t get me wrong – we used to do dungeons (including CN) with 10-11k GS 1 year ago, cuz that was all you could get back then and it was possible not because of our GS, but because of good team work with good skilled people. You can still say today ‘I did this and that with only 10k GS so why people look for 15k+’ but the truth is – you didn’t do this with 10k, you were one of the 5 people who completed the dungeon and you couldn’t do it without them, but they probably could do it without you. You need 5 decent people who know what do, or 4 good geared who know what to do and 1 who tags along, or 3 even better geared who can kill pull as fast as 4 or 5… its about team work and balance you have in your group between skilled people and geared people. You just cant do it with 5 who don’t have gear and don’t know how to play… but sadly most of the time you can do it with 5 who have high stats and GS and just smash buttons.
Again - I hope no one gets offended by my post, I’m trying to give my opinion on this GS stupidity going on. I’m posting this because I’m getting every day frustrated by both groups – the low GS people and the high GS people complaining or bragging in any chat I see. I have no idea how much GS my main character has, it’s something between 15k to 17k on different gear sets for pve or pvp, offensive/defensive sets, depending on what my role is in group, but the final GS doesn’t matter for me cuz I can simply build 18k (probably) set with all wrong stats and no set/pet bonuses and be as useless for my group as a bot. And sadly this is how I feel for most of the people I played recently with – DCs who refuse to use HP set in pve cuz their GS will drop lower, CW who wouldn’t use HV in pve cuz they want to use lame sets for more GS are both equal to me as empty spots in group most of the time, cuz the cant distribute anything for faster cleaning instance (of course there is exceptions of this) (DC and CW are the only 2 classes I played and this is where my knowledge ends so I can’t speak about the rest). Don’t even get me started on those who write guides for ‘High GS builds’ and tell people to use stat companions and spend fortune to upgrade them just so they can feed this GS hunger.
I think the reason is that game is too easy – we had the same dungeons 1 year ago, and we had no artifacts or boons and 5-7k less GS than now and we could still complete them. And when you don’t need skill or knowledge to complete instance you can compensate it with GS. I wish people could understand that dungeons aren’t easy when you have group of 5x 17k (is 17k too low now?) GS people who fight with each other for first in dps score, but when you have 5 people who work as team for fast group kills, have debuffs that increase GROUP damage and use the right skills in the right moment.
If you have Sharandar boons, Dread Ring boons, IWD boons, a T2 gear set, any decent weapon set (doesn't have to be Fomorian or Fallen Dragon or even CN weapons), 3 blue artifacts which are easy enough to get with at least 2 lvl 60 chars, Drake Seal jewelry, and rank 6-7 enchants, you'll have a GS of about 14k. So I don't understand the sub-13k gear scores for playing over a year, unless you just aren't persistent in getting your T2 sets or getting your higher level enchants. All I can say about that is, just be persistent and you will eventually get your T2 set or you will eventually get all of your enchants at R7 or higher. It is hard, I had to run Karrundax at least 20 times before I got my arms, I had to run Spellplague at least 20 times before I got my cap, but I did get them in the end, and you will too
If you have Sharandar boons, Dread Ring boons, IWD boons, a T2 gear set, any decent weapon set (doesn't have to be Fomorian or Fallen Dragon or even CN weapons), 3 blue artifacts which are easy enough to get with at least 2 lvl 60 chars, Drake Seal jewelry, and rank 6-7 enchants, you'll have a GS of about 14k. So I don't understand the sub-13k gear scores for playing over a year, unless you just aren't persistent in getting your T2 sets or getting your higher level enchants. All I can say about that is, just be persistent and you will eventually get your T2 set or you will eventually get all of your enchants at R7 or higher. It is hard, I had to run Karrundax at least 20 times before I got my arms, I had to run Spellplague at least 20 times before I got my cap, but I did get them in the end, and you will too
I think he IS persistent but inefficient-his groups wipe because he keeps running with badly geared, inexperienced players. Casual players in my guild get full sets in 5 nights max, a lot of times only one night. Each T1 dungeon run is about 15 minutes, a lot of times shorter than that. CN can take up to 30 minutes, MC and VT about 25 minutes.
It's not about elitism about GS-it's about maximizing your time..............you don't want to waste a whole year wiping in bad groups with nothing to show for it.
Venril Sathir- CW
Venril- SW
Lurch- GF
Mini Ven- DC
The silly thing is that you can get an absurdly high GS with some configuration which is far from optimal for playing - another configuration with much lower GS could do much better.
Example: My usual GS (for my DC) is just over 16K - respectable, but not extreme in any way. Now, I could replace some of my useful companions (like the Rust monster) with stat-boosting ones that raise my GS by 300 or even 330. I can also swap my T1 armor set out for 2+2 pieces of T2 armours, giving me a double 2-item bonus, bringing me to around 17.6K GS.
Now, given a choice between a 16K GS DC and a 17.6K GS one, some people would prefer the high GS one, but the simple fact is that the "low" one is much better.
GS isn't everything.
I try to inform people of this very thing. Just many people just think higher numbers is better. When that is just not the case.
Its a very common misconception with things like gearscore in general. It was more applicable in WoW but here, theres much more actual choice and playstyles and things at play than just simply basing a character off gearscore.
I saw a forum post yesterday with a screenshot of someone with a gear score of over 60k. And the guy only had rank 7 enchants with some slots empty. But mostly black ice gear. The consensus was that a gear score over over 70k was possible.
No, you were looking at HP or some other stat. This is the problem with this game.... People like YOU! =\
I could never understand why people chose to spend their time and money to have 5 bad geared characters, do 5 sets of boring dailies and then complain about their GS and not being invited to groups. Focus on one character, learn how to play it, gear it good and see if people will invite you. .
YESSSS!!! Thankyou!!!!!
I understand that people enjoy the game by having multiple characters, they like the diversity and the leveling process.
Thats FINE!
But don't complain about people not wanting to group with your terribly geared toons. You made the choice to not focus on one toon, gear him up, and learn him backward and forward. You chose to poorly geat multiple toons. This is not everyone elses problem, its yours, so... Change or deal with it
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lazaroth666Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,332Arc User
edited August 2014
If you have friends or a good guild (by good it means with enough people for t1, t2, w/e) GS will never be an issue but it will always be a problem when you group with people that you don't know and also they don't know you so the only way they can know if a player is good or not is checking their GS not because it means something but you can see how comitted is the player to the game. Most players using the LFG channel aren't in a good guild or they are playing alone, casual players, etc, those who start a party are in the same situation so when you do not have enough time to play, you won't lose your time trying to get a couple of 10k or 12k for a run just to check "if they are awesome for their GS" when there are so many above 14k or 15k GS looking for the same run.
GS is only a problem when people doesn't work on it, as soon as you are above 15k which is very easy to achieve with r7s, tons of boons,etc you can do everything in the game.
I could never understand why people chose to spend their time and money to have 5 bad geared characters,
Two reasons really. First this is a team sport. So if you know what does and does not work for other classes and what situations are optimal for them you work better with your team. Second PVP. If you know the rotations and capabilities of the class you are fighting you are more likely to win. And it's not that much time you can get a new toon to L60 T2 in a week or so. And not really any money because neverwinter's economy is simple enough to make a few good investments and never spend a dime on it.
I've always been a vocal supporter that GS means nothing (aside from being able to enter a dungeon and have held this stance since Beta and it stands even more true today than before.
Case-in-point: Was running Kessels a couple weeks ago on my CW which had Rank 7 enchantments and I think at the time only 1 epic artifact and 2 rares. I am, by no means, a top-tier CW nor do I claim to even be close. During the run, there was this GWF whom had all Rank 9s or higher enchantments, all 3 artifacts were rank 99 and with 19k GS and 11k Power, wasn't able to out damage me (and this was pre-mod4).
I have, well, now oddly 4 main characters - TR, HR, CW, SW - (with 11 total). I'm slowly upgrading each one as time goes by. Some have rank 8s, others rank 7s. I'll tell you, GS means nothing if there is no understanding the class, your role, your ability, and your skill. I have friends whom have 3/5s of the aforementioned GWF's GS as a GWF and can easily out damage me (at the time).
Though, if you're wondering how GS is calculated I did some testing a while back - not sure how much has changed though...
*Things that DO NOT AFFECT GS*
Active Companions
Buffs
Augmented Companions
Movement
Gold Gain
XP Gain
Though the above do affect stats, they do NOT affect your GS.
How GS is calculated when I did the testing (again, this was months ago... might of changed...)
It's basically "Attack/Healing" + "Protection" your basic stats (without any buffs) added together.
Power+Critical+A.Pen+Recovery+CAB+Defense+Deflect+Regen+Life Steal+Stamina Gain
Max HP was hard to determine how much GS it gave but ever test I did roughly gave me +MaxHP/4 = GS given from it
As for maxing out GS, another reason I look ill upon it is that you can easily get higher GS with equipment but you'll sacrifice much needed stats for that higher GS... Example: Hrimnir's Accessories each give +60 to stats and has a bonus that gives +mHP (movement also but that doesn't affect GS). One ring will give you 480 GS while an Ancient Ring with higher stats aimed at what you need only give you 462 GS. Also, Black Ice Enchantments and the new Dragonic Enchantments give more GS of the same rank than any other enchantment.
Join the legit community channel on Neverwinter!
/channel_join NW_Legit_Community
/bind 9 channel_setcurrent NW_Legit_Community
And press 9 in game (not in ALT mode) to easily access the channel!
PvP: Go with a 9k GWF against a 19k high HP/ regen GWF. the 9k guy will have a problem to out dps the regen of the other guy and likely get killed in one rotation. GS is not everything, but depending on class and build you die in seconds with low GS fighting a high GS player.
Kinda going to an extreme here...
Of course someone with MORE THAN TWICE the gear score of someone else is going to do better, that goes without saying and noone here is going to argue with you on that. But thats not the point being made here.
The specific examples given earlier in the thread articulate the point perfectly.
If you are full rank 10's and statted properly, you COULD have the same gear score as someone with <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> enchants and geared like a drooling <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> (Greens with high defence but no other stats on it ect.).
That is why experienced players who know the game mechanice do not put too much stock in GS.
But yes you are correct, if someone has 8 or 9k GS, they are pretty much going to suck no matter what.
Comments
Sure, all high GS players are dumb and all low GS players are geniuses.
Stop.saying.GS.means.nothing.
It does. It can keep you out of groups, which is the reason for this thread. GS is a guideline and a quick reference. Nobody is psychic, nor do they have time for deep, meaningful interviews to determine your quality as a player.
They just want to get in the dungeon and get their loot.
14k+ groups clear VT every hour. 11k groups wipe. Some of us in this thread are going to have to acknowledge the fact the at least some players with low gear scores suck in dungeons.
I've found three things prevalent in players with low gears scores:
A: They either don't have a lot of time played on that character or
B: They have limited experience in dungeons or
C: they don't know how to get a higher gear score which also falls under the knowing-how-to-play umbrella
GS is easy to get, you just have to put in time on dailies and know what you want. For instance enchants you can get dropping for you if you have max boons in Sharandar. just get 3 lesser fey blessing enchants and slot them in. Sell the extras for 50k+ each, you can get one per day. You'll have rank 7's in no time. Artifacts you can also get easy with the Icewind Dale quest. Upgrading the artifacts can be done with...............fey blessing enchants which are 25k+ refinement points each, which if you do your sharandar dailies you can get quite a few piled up, I had 95 saved up for mod 4. My rule of thumb is dropped enchants upgrade the same and fey blessings upgrade artifacts.
Black Ice gear can also upgrade your GS, that falls under Icewind dailies. Dread ring can get you refinement supplies.
I take low GS people from my guild into dungeons as soon as they hit 60 to get set pieces; in the process they get basic dungeon knowledge of how to play their class. From there I tell them about dailies and gearing themselves and they take it from there. Within a couple of months, nobody is going to have a lower GS than 14k.
Venril- SW
Lurch- GF
Mini Ven- DC
Gear score is just a number. Always remember that. If you only care about speed and efficiency then yeah, continue doing that, but I won't be grouping with you most likely.
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Tired of running dungeons with exploiters and cheaters? Join the legit channel by visiting http://goo.gl/1zfnTS to apply!
Performing ritual pony sacrifices to Tiamat to earn favor with the RNG Gods since 2014.
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PvP: Go with a 9k GWF against a 19k high HP/ regen GWF. the 9k guy will have a problem to out dps the regen of the other guy and likely get killed in one rotation. GS is not everything, but depending on class and build you die in seconds with low GS fighting a high GS player.
PvE: Class, build and skill matter. More GS is not allways better, BUT 11k GS for VT is undoable, if you dont have a strong group carrying you. So if someone complains about getting kicked out of VT with 11k GS I woud say, that he should show me a group of 11k players killing her and I would condem the behaviour of his party. I am done with T2 for all of my chars and I just run it to help out friends. I helped a TR to get his T2 set and we invited allmost anyone to the party to fill up the ranks, bc. my 16.7k GS CW can allmost solo T2. Try that with 11k GS.
You are not playing alone. The run takes the time of 5 ppl. I never kicked someone from a run, exept afk or lying about his gear. If I dont know a player I have to judge him on what I see and that is GS. Good CWs with legendary artefacts on CN farmruns out dps my CW. In some PUG runs my CW deals more dmg than all of the other players combined (including runs with multiple other CWs). Build matters, class matters, skill matters, gear matters, BUT GS (if spent right) matters too. If you want to do VT or CN, you should either have friends helping you or be up for the task, but not complain about 'elitist' players who spent most likely hours to farm their gear, if they want ppl with similar gear for the run.
from a PvE perspective, which is what I mostly play, I think what is more important than the GS itself, is what attributes are contributing to it.
ironically, when I do get invited into a party, I'm more often than not either at the sharp end in terms of damage dealt, or close.
Issues like this are partially why the legit channel exists. Come join us! we're friendly and we'll take you pretty much anywhere. If you're new to the game (which I don't think you are) then let us know and we'll help you learn.
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Tired of running dungeons with exploiters and cheaters? Join the legit channel by visiting http://goo.gl/1zfnTS to apply!
Performing ritual pony sacrifices to Tiamat to earn favor with the RNG Gods since 2014.
...
not new, but haven't used that channel, never really knew it existed.
how do I join?
I have been playing for over a year. Being a casual player, my highest GS is 13k and my other toons are all in the 12k range. If I had the cash resources, I could easily buy 3 purple artifacts and jack it up. But what does that really do to my character's survivability and damage potential? Not that much.
I have personally witnessed players with 11k GS compete with those with 15k GS. There were even real-game examples given in this thread.
GS is not meaningless, but some people put way too much emphasis on it. If a dungeon calls for a minimum GS of 11k, then obviously it is possible (according to the game developers) that someone with that GS can succeed reasonably well. Sadly, some players only care about getting the dungeon done ASAP to get loot and not having fun playing. That extra 2 minutes added to the dungeon is just too much burden to bear. Awwww.
Being a casual player, I cannot take your advice and do all sorts of daily stuff. I usually only have enough time in the day to do one set of dailies on a couple of toons. The other toons have to wait until another day. Some of us just have a lot of stuff to do in REAL life and don't commit their lives to a game. I've been there in the past with other MMOs and realized that it is just freaking pixels. When you die, can you take any of this with you?
I am basically just tired of me and my son being kicked from dungeon runs that WE started by some arrogant, greedy 19k+ GS butt wipes and wanted to discuss it. Heck, my son's GS is lower than mine but he can outplay me easily!!
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
Everyone that runs dungeons with her tell me I did an excellent job and they friend request her. She isn't my main so I don't max her out. She has r6 in all her gear, 3 blue artifacts, 3 boons each from dread and sharandar, 1 boon from IWD. Could I work on her and jack up her GS to 15-16k? Sure. But I don't want to. I have no problems healing incoming damage and buffing everyone and debuffing bosses and other baddies.
I use her when the guild needs a DC or if I'm bored with my 2 mains and want to have some fun. I love that class and it's a lot of fun to play. I just don't give a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> about her GS.
I have never gotten kicked out of a party with her YET.
A funny side note. Some guy was spamming in PE LFG 15k+ gs for FH run. I told him gs didn't matter and I would get the job done. That high of a GS was not needed. I have done FH about 100 times at this point and know it well. He finally decides to invite me after 10 minutes of not getting a full party. I inspected the guy and he had a 9.6k gs. I laughed and quit the party.
If you're going to be an elitist and make 15k GS parties, have it yourself.
Hit Points (HP) or Gear Score (GS)? 60k gear score is impossible. The highest you could get would be 21 - 22k. If we are talking HP, a GF can very easily reach 60k.
I'm not an elitist, but there are certain dungeons where I'd prefer to group with players above a certain GS. But that ''demand'' is low as I consider anybody above 12k GS capable of completing everything, with the exception of CN. If there are at least 3 of us who are well-geared then I don't mind taking another 2 who may be considered ''weak''. I would not feel confident with undergeared DPS classes in a place like TOS, CN or VT where you have to race Syndryth's healing, deal with add spwan or Valindra's caskets.
I use Legit now, but that is because Legit seems to be the home of people that can play, so I am not concerned about GS there. If someone asks for a VT or CN group in there then I am 95% certain that they know what they are doing.
You have *multiple* level 60's, all in the 12k range? Define "casual". The majority of players in my guild that have only an hour or so to play a night or log on with their kids. Very few have time to level multiple toons to 60....Icewind Dale Artifact quest is 30 minutes maximum and you only do it once for each class. Then you go to the reward claims agent and find you now have class artifacts available account wide.
Sure, there are *examples*, but they're not really the norm, are they?
It's not always about finishing a dungeon ASAP. I personally insist on no terrain exploits or jumping and fighting all content. Sometimes guys just don't want to wipe over and over. When that happens people usually yell and insult each other, etc. There are very few peaceful repeated wipes.
So do only one set of dailies on a couple toons.........just do the right dailies. Do arcane reservoir once a week on every toon.........you don't have to do ALL sharandar dailies, just do enough to get fey blessings......2 blessings a week on only 2 toons= 16 in a month.
And stop assuming you're the only one with kids and responsibilities, there are people behind the keyboards with lives just like you.
The way you describe it, you're only introducing new members after the dungeon run already wiped, correct? If you're a casual player and don't have time for wiping over and over, it would be a good idea to not assume that someone with a low GS is a good player. The high GS person that just joined your group may be just as casual as you, and knowing that your group just wiped probably doesn't want the hassle of wiping again. So how to avoid this?
Forming group that wipe is entirely your fault. Since you don't pay attention to GS you accept the consequences. And after a year you should know what questions to ask. For instance:
Does everyone know how to do this dungeon with your present toon? Nothing wrong with asking anyone in your group this question.
Venril- SW
Lurch- GF
Mini Ven- DC
I could never understand why people chose to spend their time and money to have 5 bad geared characters, do 5 sets of boring dailies and then complain about their GS and not being invited to groups. Focus on one character, learn how to play it, gear it good and see if people will invite you. (please don’t get offended by this, but I’m tired of everyday the same complains from people who play much more time than me and still use their blue gears and quest pets and hit repel in middle of pull in CN). One year ago when I first lvled to 60, the same day I had 11k GS on my healer (not the best set, not a good build, no enchants), so 1 year later you just can’t afford to have 12k on character that you spend time on when we got artifacts and boons that give so much more stats.
I do believe that GS doesn’t matter, but I wouldn’t invite you if you have 10k GS put in the wrong stats, quest cleric pet and no artifacts. This just shows me that the person didn’t spend any time playing and learning what he need for his class and gearing it. Yet if I see 17k GS CW with wrong pve set, stats put in all wrong places just so he can get THE OMG HIGH GS, I wouldn’t have better opinion for his game knowledge and skills. Still the problem is I can’t really look for ‘skilled people’ in LFG (trust me, I tried and people get offended if I simply ask them anything other than their precious GS), so I ask for 14k-15k+ and I hope by the time they spend on getting that GS, they could learn what they have to do in dungeon.
Don’t get me wrong – we used to do dungeons (including CN) with 10-11k GS 1 year ago, cuz that was all you could get back then and it was possible not because of our GS, but because of good team work with good skilled people. You can still say today ‘I did this and that with only 10k GS so why people look for 15k+’ but the truth is – you didn’t do this with 10k, you were one of the 5 people who completed the dungeon and you couldn’t do it without them, but they probably could do it without you. You need 5 decent people who know what do, or 4 good geared who know what to do and 1 who tags along, or 3 even better geared who can kill pull as fast as 4 or 5… its about team work and balance you have in your group between skilled people and geared people. You just cant do it with 5 who don’t have gear and don’t know how to play… but sadly most of the time you can do it with 5 who have high stats and GS and just smash buttons.
Again - I hope no one gets offended by my post, I’m trying to give my opinion on this GS stupidity going on. I’m posting this because I’m getting every day frustrated by both groups – the low GS people and the high GS people complaining or bragging in any chat I see. I have no idea how much GS my main character has, it’s something between 15k to 17k on different gear sets for pve or pvp, offensive/defensive sets, depending on what my role is in group, but the final GS doesn’t matter for me cuz I can simply build 18k (probably) set with all wrong stats and no set/pet bonuses and be as useless for my group as a bot. And sadly this is how I feel for most of the people I played recently with – DCs who refuse to use HP set in pve cuz their GS will drop lower, CW who wouldn’t use HV in pve cuz they want to use lame sets for more GS are both equal to me as empty spots in group most of the time, cuz the cant distribute anything for faster cleaning instance (of course there is exceptions of this) (DC and CW are the only 2 classes I played and this is where my knowledge ends so I can’t speak about the rest). Don’t even get me started on those who write guides for ‘High GS builds’ and tell people to use stat companions and spend fortune to upgrade them just so they can feed this GS hunger.
I think the reason is that game is too easy – we had the same dungeons 1 year ago, and we had no artifacts or boons and 5-7k less GS than now and we could still complete them. And when you don’t need skill or knowledge to complete instance you can compensate it with GS. I wish people could understand that dungeons aren’t easy when you have group of 5x 17k (is 17k too low now?) GS people who fight with each other for first in dps score, but when you have 5 people who work as team for fast group kills, have debuffs that increase GROUP damage and use the right skills in the right moment.
I think he IS persistent but inefficient-his groups wipe because he keeps running with badly geared, inexperienced players. Casual players in my guild get full sets in 5 nights max, a lot of times only one night. Each T1 dungeon run is about 15 minutes, a lot of times shorter than that. CN can take up to 30 minutes, MC and VT about 25 minutes.
It's not about elitism about GS-it's about maximizing your time..............you don't want to waste a whole year wiping in bad groups with nothing to show for it.
Venril- SW
Lurch- GF
Mini Ven- DC
I try to inform people of this very thing. Just many people just think higher numbers is better. When that is just not the case.
Its a very common misconception with things like gearscore in general. It was more applicable in WoW but here, theres much more actual choice and playstyles and things at play than just simply basing a character off gearscore.
No, you were looking at HP or some other stat. This is the problem with this game.... People like YOU! =\
YESSSS!!! Thankyou!!!!!
I understand that people enjoy the game by having multiple characters, they like the diversity and the leveling process.
Thats FINE!
But don't complain about people not wanting to group with your terribly geared toons. You made the choice to not focus on one toon, gear him up, and learn him backward and forward. You chose to poorly geat multiple toons. This is not everyone elses problem, its yours, so... Change or deal with it
GS is only a problem when people doesn't work on it, as soon as you are above 15k which is very easy to achieve with r7s, tons of boons,etc you can do everything in the game.
Two reasons really. First this is a team sport. So if you know what does and does not work for other classes and what situations are optimal for them you work better with your team. Second PVP. If you know the rotations and capabilities of the class you are fighting you are more likely to win. And it's not that much time you can get a new toon to L60 T2 in a week or so. And not really any money because neverwinter's economy is simple enough to make a few good investments and never spend a dime on it.
Case-in-point: Was running Kessels a couple weeks ago on my CW which had Rank 7 enchantments and I think at the time only 1 epic artifact and 2 rares. I am, by no means, a top-tier CW nor do I claim to even be close. During the run, there was this GWF whom had all Rank 9s or higher enchantments, all 3 artifacts were rank 99 and with 19k GS and 11k Power, wasn't able to out damage me (and this was pre-mod4).
I have, well, now oddly 4 main characters - TR, HR, CW, SW - (with 11 total). I'm slowly upgrading each one as time goes by. Some have rank 8s, others rank 7s. I'll tell you, GS means nothing if there is no understanding the class, your role, your ability, and your skill. I have friends whom have 3/5s of the aforementioned GWF's GS as a GWF and can easily out damage me (at the time).
Though, if you're wondering how GS is calculated I did some testing a while back - not sure how much has changed though...
*Things that DO NOT AFFECT GS*- Active Companions
- Buffs
- Augmented Companions
- Movement
- Gold Gain
- XP Gain
Though the above do affect stats, they do NOT affect your GS.
How GS is calculated when I did the testing (again, this was months ago... might of changed...)
It's basically "Attack/Healing" + "Protection" your basic stats (without any buffs) added together.
Power+Critical+A.Pen+Recovery+CAB+Defense+Deflect+Regen+Life Steal+Stamina Gain
Max HP was hard to determine how much GS it gave but ever test I did roughly gave me +MaxHP/4 = GS given from it
As for maxing out GS, another reason I look ill upon it is that you can easily get higher GS with equipment but you'll sacrifice much needed stats for that higher GS... Example: Hrimnir's Accessories each give +60 to stats and has a bonus that gives +mHP (movement also but that doesn't affect GS). One ring will give you 480 GS while an Ancient Ring with higher stats aimed at what you need only give you 462 GS. Also, Black Ice Enchantments and the new Dragonic Enchantments give more GS of the same rank than any other enchantment.
Creator and maintainer of TR's Epic Gear Comparison Spreadsheet
Join the legit community channel on Neverwinter!
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/bind 9 channel_setcurrent NW_Legit_Community
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Kinda going to an extreme here...
Of course someone with MORE THAN TWICE the gear score of someone else is going to do better, that goes without saying and noone here is going to argue with you on that. But thats not the point being made here.
The specific examples given earlier in the thread articulate the point perfectly.
If you are full rank 10's and statted properly, you COULD have the same gear score as someone with <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> enchants and geared like a drooling <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> (Greens with high defence but no other stats on it ect.).
That is why experienced players who know the game mechanice do not put too much stock in GS.
But yes you are correct, if someone has 8 or 9k GS, they are pretty much going to suck no matter what.