(Sigh) Another disappointed cleric...

atlaskean

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cindikle

Hopefully Mod 4 will fix a lot of the rebalancing DC's need(not buffs, not nerfs). They are in fact very strong. When they are at the proper gear level for the content. But when you start getting to those high GS's where a group of GWF/CW's can clear everything all other classes becomes not as needed. Even groups being formed by other classes will look for just those 2 classes. Because at the highest gear level they preform the best.

I don't play either CW or GWF. I feel GWF did need changes. Perhaps not as strong of changes. and GF needs love in the right spot. CW IMO is changing too much when the problem is the content.

Taking threat is rarely a threat for most classes. Especially those who can have both high dps and high control/tankiness. Leaving us to see these two classes leaving their group behind to go pull the next 3 groups of mobs and AoE them down before the group catches up. Because there is no threat.

I don't know many MMO's that have this problem. Maybe it's because most MMO's follow the trinity. Allowing a base for balance. I don't feel this game needs to follow it. But a form of it wouldn't hurt. Such as Tank, dps, support. Where support can be CC, buffing, debuffing or healing.

There are many fights where a GF/DC are wanted. But just not for the reasons those players generally want to be wanted for.
Not every DC wants to feel buff/debuff is the only spec. Some want to heal.
Not every GF wants to play tag with adds while everyone else kills the boss.

They need to figure out a better design for their dungeons if they want better balance. Otherwise I can see every new Mod having 2-3 FotM classes while the rest go unwanted. Outside of a few niche's in dungeons.

atlaskean

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sockmunkey

The devs have stated fairly clearly that Cleric is going to get some attention. Crush himself has said he wants more synergy between healers and tanks. With more ways to heal and mitigate burst damage.

However, he has also made it clear, he is working on the Tank side of things first. I fully expect, once mod 4 is out and everything settles. And the group dynamic, both in PVE and PVP, gets to a place that the devs are happy with it. Cleric will get its due. Its just going to require a bit more patience.

tonyswu

sockmunkey wrote: »

The devs have stated fairly clearly that Cleric is going to get some attention. Crush himself has said he wants more synergy between healers and tanks. With more ways to heal and mitigate burst damage.

However, he has also made it clear, he is working on the Tank side of things first. I fully expect, once mod 4 is out and everything settles. And the group dynamic, both in PVE and PVP, gets to a place that the devs are happy with it. Cleric will get its due. Its just going to require a bit more patience.

In my opinion the dev is fixing the wrong thing. How is more synergy between healer and tank going to fix the issue of CW stacking? Assuming CW does more damage than either GF or DC, as long as 2 CWs, 3, or even 4, can lock down adds indefinitely, stacking CWs will still be the way to go.

They need to tone down control powers to make CW stacking undesirable, that's what they need to figure out.

zshikara

Its pretty easy to fix imho. Make CW CC have a diminishing return so that you can't chain cc things forever.

cindikle

tonyswu wrote: »

In my opinion the dev is fixing the wrong thing. How is more synergy between healer and tank going to fix the issue of CW stacking? Assuming CW does more damage than either GF or DC, as long as 2 CWs, 3, or even 4, can lock down adds indefinitely, stacking CWs will still be the way to go.

They need to tone down control powers to make CW stacking undesirable, that's what they need to figure out.

Singularity scars the ground beneath, making further Singularities less effective.

Mobs like Blademasters here and there in trash mobs.

Mobs that always stay focused on the first target to grab threat. Outside of a taunt(maybe).

Mini-bosses. Ones that would focus more on single target dps to get through them. Often blocking progression in some form. These could require a dps check before an "enrage" mode happens. (Although this would be very negative to bringing a DC or GF.)

Having bosses with more weaker adds instead of more stronger adds. Something that dies quickly to strong AoE(CW) but doesn't have enough HP to really offset the "paingiver" meter. (Or just delete the X button stats)

Bosses that have quicker activating red areas. Not killing tanks, but could kill a squishy if they pull agro and are not ready for it.

Mobs with a reliable form of CC. Discouraging running ahead of the group or jumping into 10 mobs.

But I suppose a lot of this comes down to wait I said in my first post. A lot of the balance issues comes from dungeon design and too large of playerbase that flat out outgears almost all of the content.

Game has been out a year and it seems they mostly make content that can be recycled. T1/2 is all leveling dungeons. Although this is not new.

VT and MC are both on par with T1/2 in length. CN wouldn't be about the same if it wasn't mostly large groups of trash mobs to plow through.

Maybe this is what Mod 4 is going to bring. It has to come soon. DR on stats is harsh at higher gear levels right now. A T3 at our current level would do no good unless it's a bunch of power and defense and some other random stats that end up going past the soft caps anyway.

Then again NW is not your normal MMO. It doesn't follow the standard that many MMO's follow.

plavia

as far as i understand these are the only changes for DC

http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?692671-Tyranny-of-Dragons-Preview-Patch-Notes-NW-25-20140616d-2

•"Devoted Cleric
•Chains of Blazing Light: The tooltip will now correctly show how much damage this power will deal."

and armor penetration will finally work

dont think module 4 will be a big change
maybe changing other charcters will make us more needed, but with GS increasing and life steal stat so high on equipment... i dont think so

the only comfort i see is that GF are by far the worst class
i have seen few in the new skirmish kessel retreat. GF die lot of time and do half of the damage i do (and i play with full healing rotation...)

so hopefully if they will fix GF in mod 4 will be the worst calss and get fix in mod 5 (lets hope they wont mess up CW too much)

crixus8000

Clerics can be very powerful, i have come across clerics that i cant even kill because there defence is to high and yes they can hit over 10ks too.

Just find the right skills and settup, have a LOT of hp and go for good power with crit for dmg and healing with some good armor pen too.

in my view clerics are like a tank wizard, they can still do good dmg but can heal themselves and are 10x harder to kill. Keep working on better gear and i know the purified ice gear would be amazing for a cleric you would have so much defence then just work on dmg.

angelkilier

I find DC less frustrating than GF. GF is at a very bad state at this moment. Can't really justify GF's role in any PvE situations, while DCs are still pretty welcomed in most groups.

atlaskean

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cdnbison

Want synergy between DC/GF? Give us DC's a way to turn a big hit into a dot on an ally. A "slow time" for massive hits. So:

GF stands in red, tankily tanking.
Red circle appears.
DC casts spell that will turn the big hit into the same amount (possibly more even more), spread out over 15-20 sec. That is - something you can heal through.

The spell would have to be single-target, and likely short duration / long cool down, so it isn't just constantly spammed. Combined with the GF block, it'd keep damage to a more manageable line - smoothing the spikes out. Things AS and Sunburst can deal with. You could even drop it on an IV-spec GWF if required. I don't think cloth / leather classes would appreciate getting a DoT of that magnitude, though.... ;-)

silverkelt

This is what I find frustrating atm.

AC builds animation speeds for casting times such as BoB , its too slow, you can get wacked, smacked and proned around by the time is half over, it really needs a massive rework.

AC damage output, is just too low, they should allow some feated reworks to give DO specced DCs a little more damage output, and put AC at the current DO level. That should work.

Feats need massive rework, alot of them are X, Y, Z healing feats, which all have been nerfed and mostly unwanted. They need help, some of them are so pathetic + bonus to certain stats or have massive cooldowns, not warranted (HELLO cleanse.. right? come on!)

an AC DC cleric right now is painful to play through IWD, Im not saying its hard even, but its slow, really slow, damage mitigation means nothing in IWD honestly, so basically a mitigating monster as a AC specced DC is pretty worthless, you do less damage, lose out on mitigation due to Black Ice Damage and overall have to dodge to finish stuff alot of times.

For pve dungeons.. meh they are fine, its just buff this, or heal that, as a AC spec, I can tank mostly anything with MH on as well.
for PVP.. they are "ok" and can dominate a node with your team, making them pretty unkillable until you go down , 1 vs 1 your screwed with any class basically can CC you and you cant. Lower geared players cant touch you though, Ive killed 9k players who thought they were going to come on my node, but hey, any class can do that and faster then my DC.

Overall, I feel the DC is more boring now then they were pre tenacity patch. Thats just my opinion. Mod 3 just nerfed more stuff, not needed to be touched.

I too think tank specced GF is probably even worst though, in terms of IWD dailies. Ouch to that.

So a AC specced DC is probably second worse.. ya for us.

adinosii

One way to "fix" DCs, in the sense of making them more desirable in parties is actually to reduce the self-healing abilities of the other classes.

The fact is that DCs have two functions in groups. While leveling, and in "low-end" lvl 60 groups their primary task will be to heal, and they are needed for that. However, in groups with an average GS above 15K or so, a DCs healing is not really needed - if we are wanted at all, it will be for buffing, but unless you have HP, Terror/Plaguefire and are willing to stick only to a very narrow range of powers (HG, AS and DG) and have the feats to really support buffing you will not really be appreciated - and your heals are only a bonus, not critical.

Now, if LifeSteal and Reneneration was less effective, then maybe, just maybe DCs would be wanted for their heals again. Maybe this is planned for module 5, but for now, we are a bit restricted.