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My Version of Proposed GF Changes
tonyswu
Member Posts: 223 Arc User
Overview
In my opinion the biggest issue this game has right now is the lack of a clear direction of where the game is going. Most of the proposed changes are being worked out to target the symptoms, while the underlying issues are left untouched. Is this game going to be a hack-n-slash game where no tank and healer is needed? If so, every class needs to roughly the same. They would play differently, of course, but 80% of the functionalities need to be the same, and their damage outputs need to be similar. Or is this game going to be a traditional D&D game where a party should consist of tank + healer + DPS? If so, the dungeon mechanics need to be changed along with class mechanics in order to give tank and healer a place and bring overall balance into the game..
Disclaimer
My below comments are made with following assumptions:
1. Game is heading towards traditional D&D model.
2. GF guard change will move ahead (stamina based and 80% damage mitigation).
3. Most comments below will be about PvE.
General Game Mechanics
Objectives: To give tank and healer a place in dungeon run.
1. Control effects diminishing return. Assuming CW does more damage than GF in upcoming mod, and 2 CWs, 3 CWs, or even 4 CWs, are capable of locking down adds indefinitely, why would you need a GF? GF can be buffed all day long with threats, but unless this underlying issue is resolved, there will not be able change. Therefore I propose control effects diminishing return in dungeon runs. If mobs stay under control too long, they should become immune to control effects. This will discourage CW stacking.
2. Faster, stronger, and more control-immune adds in dungeon. A lot of dungeons don’t have any control-immune adds. But even the ones that do, those control-immune adds do not post any realistic threat because they are slow and predictable. This needs to change. I propose making those control-immune adds attack faster and stronger, and put them in every dungeon. Objective: If a DPS class is hit by one, they need to dying.
3. Nerf lifesteal. Ever wonder why DC is not needed in dungeon? When you can refill your HP from near death to full with 1 encounter, why would you need a DC? The effectiveness of lifesteal needs to be toned down, severely.
4. Change 360-degree dungeon mobs AoE to frontal AoE only. This will encourage DPS, especially melee DPS such as TR, to stay behind the mob and allow the tank to do his job.
5. Mobs should have cleave damage. If you stand right next to the tank, and the tank is hit, you should take cleave damage.
6. Merge paragon paths, and use paragon feats to change how classes work. We have limited slots on the skill bar, and the paragon paths only have a few different skills between each other. Why not combine them, and use the feats to change the behavior of a class instead of maintaining 2 almost redundant skill paths? I will explain more from a GF’s perspectives below.
7. Define clearly the differences between defender / healer / striker / controller. No class should be able to perform 2. Powers with control effects should deal lower damage than strictly DPS powers. AoE powers should deal lower damage than single target powers.
8. Stop trying to balance PvE based on PvP, and vice versa.
9. Dual specs so people don’t have to find a class that works for both PvE and PvP, and so that you don’t have to balance PvE based on PvP and vice versa.
General GF Game Play Changes
1. Combine the paragon paths. I honestly don't understand why we have 2 paragon paths. There are skills that are simply useless. Why not get rid of the useless skills, and just combine the 2 paths? For example, these skills can be removed:
Knee Breaker, Flourish, Crushing Surge, Guarded Assault
and these can be worked into feats:
Shield talent, Enhanced Mark, Ferocious Reaction, Enduring Warrior
Combine the 2 paragon paths, and use the feat paths to give GF different play styles.
2. GF needs an oh-s*** skill. GWF has one: Avalanche of Steel. CW has one: Oppressed Force. HR has one, Forest Ghost. TR can go into stealth. What’s ours? You may argue it’s Villain’s Menace. The activation time of the skill is too long, and it does nothing against mobs. You may argue it’s Fighter’s Recovery, but since it doesn’t grant you control immunity, you may not even have a chance to get it off.
3. Mobs need to stop trying to space out. When more than 5 mobs are grouped together, for example by Singularity, as soon as they land, if not controlled, will try to space out. This generally results in a couple of mobs going outside of GF's block range. This needs to not happen. If mobs are grouped together, they need to stay together and not move, unless it's to pursuit someone.
4. GF, or at least the tank GFs, should be able to group adds.
5. Speed up GF's at-wills, increase the width of Cleave and Aggravating Strike.
6. Make aggravating strike stationary.
7. Lunging Strike’s AoE should be 360-degree fo the target hit, not a cone.
8. GF should NOT have to face shield towards the center of an AoE in order to block.
Proposed GF Paragon Feats Path
1. Conqueror
Objective: DPS
If a GF specs for this tree, then he’s DPS. The damage output needs to be similar with other DPS classes such as GWF and CW, and survivability needs to be much lower than the tank trees. Below are some proposed skill changes for this tree:
* Knight’s Challenge now applies to multiple target around the primary target, but only the primary target deals additional damage to the caster.
* After using a daily, all single-target encounters hit up to 5 adjacent targets with half the damage and no special effects. For example, Bull Charge hit the primary target for 8K, 5 adjacent targets get hit for 4K without knock back.
* Raise Anvil of Doom’s damage bonus to 40% life on target.
* Shield should be for emergency only.
2. Protector
Objective: Shield Tank
If a GF specs for this tree, he chooses to be a tank and the primary defense comes from the shield. He should be able to hold his shield up for an extended amount of time.
* Enforced Threat groups all affected target to the front of GF.
* A portion of every external heal received goes to restoring guard meter.
* Frontline Surge should daze only, no knock down.
* When hitpoints drop below 15%, shield temporarily deflects 100% of the damage (replacing Ferocious Reaction).
* Some powers can be activated while shield is up, such as Enforced Threat, Iron Warrior, Villain’s Menace, and Fighter’s Recovery.
* shield now blocks 180-degree, instead of cone.
3. Tactician
Objective: Mitigation Tank
If a GF specs for this tree, s/he chooses to be a tank and the primary defense comes from defense / deflection / lifesteal stats. Shield should be for emergency only.
* Marks no longer disappear, they should last for a fixed period of time.
* Generate 100% more threat against marked targets.
* All defense stats has increased effectiveness against marked targets (increased defense, deflection, and lifesteal).
* Enforced Threat groups all affected target to the front of GF.
* Frontline Surge should daze only.
* Shield deflects 10% of damage received before DR (replacing Guarded Assault).
Conclusion
Ultimately, the things I would like to see the most are balance, where every class/role has their place. and dynamic game plays, where player are not forced into one all-around build. I definitely like the fact that the game continues to expand, but without a fundamental set of rules in terms of keeping everything balanced, further expansion will only bring more issues/chaos.
In my opinion the biggest issue this game has right now is the lack of a clear direction of where the game is going. Most of the proposed changes are being worked out to target the symptoms, while the underlying issues are left untouched. Is this game going to be a hack-n-slash game where no tank and healer is needed? If so, every class needs to roughly the same. They would play differently, of course, but 80% of the functionalities need to be the same, and their damage outputs need to be similar. Or is this game going to be a traditional D&D game where a party should consist of tank + healer + DPS? If so, the dungeon mechanics need to be changed along with class mechanics in order to give tank and healer a place and bring overall balance into the game..
Disclaimer
My below comments are made with following assumptions:
1. Game is heading towards traditional D&D model.
2. GF guard change will move ahead (stamina based and 80% damage mitigation).
3. Most comments below will be about PvE.
General Game Mechanics
Objectives: To give tank and healer a place in dungeon run.
1. Control effects diminishing return. Assuming CW does more damage than GF in upcoming mod, and 2 CWs, 3 CWs, or even 4 CWs, are capable of locking down adds indefinitely, why would you need a GF? GF can be buffed all day long with threats, but unless this underlying issue is resolved, there will not be able change. Therefore I propose control effects diminishing return in dungeon runs. If mobs stay under control too long, they should become immune to control effects. This will discourage CW stacking.
2. Faster, stronger, and more control-immune adds in dungeon. A lot of dungeons don’t have any control-immune adds. But even the ones that do, those control-immune adds do not post any realistic threat because they are slow and predictable. This needs to change. I propose making those control-immune adds attack faster and stronger, and put them in every dungeon. Objective: If a DPS class is hit by one, they need to dying.
3. Nerf lifesteal. Ever wonder why DC is not needed in dungeon? When you can refill your HP from near death to full with 1 encounter, why would you need a DC? The effectiveness of lifesteal needs to be toned down, severely.
4. Change 360-degree dungeon mobs AoE to frontal AoE only. This will encourage DPS, especially melee DPS such as TR, to stay behind the mob and allow the tank to do his job.
5. Mobs should have cleave damage. If you stand right next to the tank, and the tank is hit, you should take cleave damage.
6. Merge paragon paths, and use paragon feats to change how classes work. We have limited slots on the skill bar, and the paragon paths only have a few different skills between each other. Why not combine them, and use the feats to change the behavior of a class instead of maintaining 2 almost redundant skill paths? I will explain more from a GF’s perspectives below.
7. Define clearly the differences between defender / healer / striker / controller. No class should be able to perform 2. Powers with control effects should deal lower damage than strictly DPS powers. AoE powers should deal lower damage than single target powers.
8. Stop trying to balance PvE based on PvP, and vice versa.
9. Dual specs so people don’t have to find a class that works for both PvE and PvP, and so that you don’t have to balance PvE based on PvP and vice versa.
General GF Game Play Changes
1. Combine the paragon paths. I honestly don't understand why we have 2 paragon paths. There are skills that are simply useless. Why not get rid of the useless skills, and just combine the 2 paths? For example, these skills can be removed:
Knee Breaker, Flourish, Crushing Surge, Guarded Assault
and these can be worked into feats:
Shield talent, Enhanced Mark, Ferocious Reaction, Enduring Warrior
Combine the 2 paragon paths, and use the feat paths to give GF different play styles.
2. GF needs an oh-s*** skill. GWF has one: Avalanche of Steel. CW has one: Oppressed Force. HR has one, Forest Ghost. TR can go into stealth. What’s ours? You may argue it’s Villain’s Menace. The activation time of the skill is too long, and it does nothing against mobs. You may argue it’s Fighter’s Recovery, but since it doesn’t grant you control immunity, you may not even have a chance to get it off.
3. Mobs need to stop trying to space out. When more than 5 mobs are grouped together, for example by Singularity, as soon as they land, if not controlled, will try to space out. This generally results in a couple of mobs going outside of GF's block range. This needs to not happen. If mobs are grouped together, they need to stay together and not move, unless it's to pursuit someone.
4. GF, or at least the tank GFs, should be able to group adds.
5. Speed up GF's at-wills, increase the width of Cleave and Aggravating Strike.
6. Make aggravating strike stationary.
7. Lunging Strike’s AoE should be 360-degree fo the target hit, not a cone.
8. GF should NOT have to face shield towards the center of an AoE in order to block.
Proposed GF Paragon Feats Path
1. Conqueror
Objective: DPS
If a GF specs for this tree, then he’s DPS. The damage output needs to be similar with other DPS classes such as GWF and CW, and survivability needs to be much lower than the tank trees. Below are some proposed skill changes for this tree:
* Knight’s Challenge now applies to multiple target around the primary target, but only the primary target deals additional damage to the caster.
* After using a daily, all single-target encounters hit up to 5 adjacent targets with half the damage and no special effects. For example, Bull Charge hit the primary target for 8K, 5 adjacent targets get hit for 4K without knock back.
* Raise Anvil of Doom’s damage bonus to 40% life on target.
* Shield should be for emergency only.
2. Protector
Objective: Shield Tank
If a GF specs for this tree, he chooses to be a tank and the primary defense comes from the shield. He should be able to hold his shield up for an extended amount of time.
* Enforced Threat groups all affected target to the front of GF.
* A portion of every external heal received goes to restoring guard meter.
* Frontline Surge should daze only, no knock down.
* When hitpoints drop below 15%, shield temporarily deflects 100% of the damage (replacing Ferocious Reaction).
* Some powers can be activated while shield is up, such as Enforced Threat, Iron Warrior, Villain’s Menace, and Fighter’s Recovery.
* shield now blocks 180-degree, instead of cone.
3. Tactician
Objective: Mitigation Tank
If a GF specs for this tree, s/he chooses to be a tank and the primary defense comes from defense / deflection / lifesteal stats. Shield should be for emergency only.
* Marks no longer disappear, they should last for a fixed period of time.
* Generate 100% more threat against marked targets.
* All defense stats has increased effectiveness against marked targets (increased defense, deflection, and lifesteal).
* Enforced Threat groups all affected target to the front of GF.
* Frontline Surge should daze only.
* Shield deflects 10% of damage received before DR (replacing Guarded Assault).
Conclusion
Ultimately, the things I would like to see the most are balance, where every class/role has their place. and dynamic game plays, where player are not forced into one all-around build. I definitely like the fact that the game continues to expand, but without a fundamental set of rules in terms of keeping everything balanced, further expansion will only bring more issues/chaos.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments
+ / - this.
the urgent problem of the dungeon is this: most part of dungeons danger are facing 438476547 melee enemies / aoe melee damage.
then basically is not a fighter is resistant to protect the party, but yourself. The maximum he can do is to "serve as a singularity." though not necessarily be receiving damage.
said that you have two ways.
A - you is a "singularity" that is increasing the party damage .
B - you is a "singularity" that causes much damage.
if dont have plans to change this, well, "B" work well...