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[PvP] The single most frustrating thing about Neverwinter
ayroux
Member Posts: 4,271 Arc User
I know what your thinking - I was gonna say constant class "re-balances". NOPE... While frustrating thats not it.
The SINGLE most frustrating thing about Neverwinter is seeing the AWESOME potential for this game to have some AMAZING pvp, but instead of spending a LITTLE time to develop new maps and new gametypes for PVP to literally make this into a POWERHOUSE pvp game, we STILL have the same TWO pvp maps and same ONE gametype.
I cant tell you how many people have dropped NW due to lack of pvp maps and gametypes. Its really simple...
1) Create new domination MAPS - heck you could even just take IWD and Dwarven Valley maps and throw those into the "Que" system and it would be better.
2) Create new PVP GAMETYPES - these could even utilize the same maps if you want.
- Slayer
- "OddBall"
Are two REALLY easy gametypes that could easily be implemented into the game. Honestly one thing that scares me is all these pvp "balances" are made in respect to domination, then they will release a slayer game or Oddball and all the balance will go out the window because new build will emerge and require NEW balance.
Id really just like to see these things go live, try them, and then you could make all these crazy balances....
BTW, second most frustrating thing: No FOUNDRY PVP. I get not wanting to open the door to exploits or even splitting the PVP community, so make the FOUNDRY EVENT HOUR the only TIME you can que up for Foundry PVP.
I think your REALLY underestimating the population increase you would see from new pvp maps, gametypes and foundry pvp. there are ALOT of players who love pvp searching for a game to play, waiting until one comes out. Neverwinter WAS that for people until it got stale from the same pvp weve had for over a year.
The SINGLE most frustrating thing about Neverwinter is seeing the AWESOME potential for this game to have some AMAZING pvp, but instead of spending a LITTLE time to develop new maps and new gametypes for PVP to literally make this into a POWERHOUSE pvp game, we STILL have the same TWO pvp maps and same ONE gametype.
I cant tell you how many people have dropped NW due to lack of pvp maps and gametypes. Its really simple...
1) Create new domination MAPS - heck you could even just take IWD and Dwarven Valley maps and throw those into the "Que" system and it would be better.
2) Create new PVP GAMETYPES - these could even utilize the same maps if you want.
- Slayer
- "OddBall"
Are two REALLY easy gametypes that could easily be implemented into the game. Honestly one thing that scares me is all these pvp "balances" are made in respect to domination, then they will release a slayer game or Oddball and all the balance will go out the window because new build will emerge and require NEW balance.
Id really just like to see these things go live, try them, and then you could make all these crazy balances....
BTW, second most frustrating thing: No FOUNDRY PVP. I get not wanting to open the door to exploits or even splitting the PVP community, so make the FOUNDRY EVENT HOUR the only TIME you can que up for Foundry PVP.
I think your REALLY underestimating the population increase you would see from new pvp maps, gametypes and foundry pvp. there are ALOT of players who love pvp searching for a game to play, waiting until one comes out. Neverwinter WAS that for people until it got stale from the same pvp weve had for over a year.
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Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Foundry PVP maps are a good idea though but of course, we are assuming you get no rewards from those. It is hard to Q/A and test every single <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> of a map.
CRAZY MIKE - 14.6k PvE CW
Backbone - 16.7k PvP HR
[SIGPIC]http://i59.tinypic.com/s3hts7.png[/SIGPIC]
Foundry would have NO rewards, just a way for people to play and SINCE it woudlnt take into consideration the leaderboards I almost GUARANTEE the "top pvpers" will do this ALL the time since they can premade without having to worry about OP clas makeups and losing rank on the boards - it would more be able fun and new scenery.
Since you can Q for 3 maps at once, I think that would suffice, plus most people would end up getting groups together to que for Foundry maps so chances are it would mostly be premades or partial premades doing this.
The ONLY downside would be solo-Q players probably would rarely get Foundry PVP Q-pops.
The easy way to keep popular maps up is: If a map hasnt been played in say 2-3 weeks, it gets taken off the Q search. Author then ahs to re-submit it. But this keeps only popular maps current.
I know NW needs more PVE dungeons as well, but there is also SO much potential here for PVP it just HURTS me sometimes thinking about how fun this game COULD be with just a little more effort.
This is the ENTIRE idea... Once every <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> weeks, take the most popular map, add it into the Q lineup for RANKED domination.
YOu basically just turned your player base into DEVs AND TESTERS. Sure, have it go through a quality control step before hitting live, but this sure beats the HECK out of NO new maps.
Id rather take a map that is REALLY popular for weeks, that has 1-2 "bugs" hit live than NO new maps... 1-2 bugs are easier to fix than getting players back who quit because of no new content....
while i really love your effort in writing giving advices i want to say just one thing:
we all blame about balance...balance here balance that.
different maps and different game mode bring the need to different balance.
there is a reason if league of legends, dota and so on only have 1 map.
few maps doesnt mean less entertainment.
what i really find frustrating is the split-instances in open world pvp.
Neverwinter Forums would be AWESOME if threads about PvP had the initials "PvP" in the title.
(Done! [PvP] added to subject. ~Zeb)
-Harrumphs off, stomping feet-
There is a big difference between DOTA/LOL and NW though. In those games you can pick any character up any time/day of the week and play a totally different class, build, game.
In NW you play the SAME character youve farmed gear on, its not like I can decide tomorrow I wanna play a Hunter in Profound PVP gear with all legendary artifacts if I want, I have to farm all that and most likely spend real $ to boost artifacts up to legendary.
There are also other games like HALO/Call of Duty that have multiple game types and maps, while those are different as well from NW, but I think its a little more towards the right direction just because of the way its works.
Another famous MMO we all know had CTF/Domination and Arena style pvp. So eventhough in the beginning they only had TWO maps, they had world pvp (kinda how we do now) and also TWO gameTYPES. Then introduces arena pvp.
Its not even just the number of maps, but also the gametypes. When pvp just becomes a "stalemate" fest on nodes, its not really that fun.
TLDR:
Id LOVE to see Arena/slayer/Oddball PVP.
Id LOVE to see more pvp maps.
in order to create foundry pvp maps, the devs would first have to open up the foundry to be more like their development tools and i don't see that happening. then foundry maps would have to be tested, changed, retested...
as for other pvp types, if map development would take time then i can safely assume that creating other pvp types would take even more time with development and testing. no software company whips out new changes without an extended testing period and even within that testing period, there is still a chance for bugs and things.
neverwinter's combat action is one of the best i've seen in a f2p game. and i can understand your laments, sir. but as has been stated previously, this is d&d and pve focused. while they are providing pvp options in-game, it will never become the main focus. game companies know customers that will play their games have varied preferences. games begin their development with a certain direction. they're not going to change focus after a year. they've obviously tried to appease the pvp side by the most recent offerings, but i can see where they might want to stick to things that are more PvE heavy like the open pvp areas tied in to daily quests and now PvP campaigns. that actually might be a requirement in their WotC licensing agreement.
I understand, and I never said it would necessarily be "easy to implement" either. I see what the DEVs have TRIED to do.
First came GG, this had PVE and PVP interwoven but it was poorly done, and just because a big horse race - off that noone even honestly considers real PVP.
Then came the PVP re-work with tencaity and re-doing all the pvp gear sets to include tenacity - again not what people asked for but DEVs did spend alot of time there..
Next came PVP zones - while I see also what they were trying to do, several PVPers brought up many potential issues here and alas, when its all said and done, this ended up also being a pretty big failure.
So part of this thread, is to encourage them to, INSTEAD OF trying to find creative PVP outlets like new GGs/gear or Zone PVPs... INSTEAD of putting effort into things LIKE that, to just release either new maps, or new PVP gameTYPES.
They clearly had to put alot of time/testing etc into making the PVP zones, so they DO have time for things LIKE pvp.
I also agree - they NEED to put in more PVE focused dungeons as well. Some REALLY hard ones. But next time they think of "pvp content", just give us maps or BETTER yet would be gametypes.
The biggest thing I question, is the actual time it takes to make the maps. Im not a programmer, but I have tinkered with things like RPGmaker, Foundry, Forge - from HALO. So I understand when you have a tool, how much time takes into rolling out NEW content like this. I think its over-estimated. I have also talked to many friends who ARE programmers who also say once you have a base tool in play, and the chipset/tile-set, its not too difficult to make a map.
The problem is sometimes people try and be TOO creative - like putting a Pillar right next to the spawn on Hotenow, or making the castle ruins look "decaying" and "realistic" on Rivenscar - both of these caused issues with players getting INTO spawn.
Well, its simple: Dont do that and you wont have that issue.
As for Foundry PVP, again, there isnt any testing needed. they DO have to work on a code that allows players to "Q" for a PVP map during the Foundry hour - I cant imagine that would be too hard to do. Then let the PLAYERS roll out new content for you.
I think this is the biggest resource they are not utilizing. Its fine if they dont have time for making new maps, but atleast let the players do it for you then....
I mean heck, Ive played some amazing PVE dungeons in foundry that BLOW the current stuff away, imagine using that creative power for real stuff...
I found this and tried it out, and really enjoy it, love the feats, boons, changing encounters and passives I like companions for guys like me that solo play most the time, and action based dynamic fighting is extra cool having to dodge, block, etc.
However I also am not a fan of Stand on A run to B kill target X and win PVE. I enjoy the competition against other thinking Humans in PVP.
So as much as you guys love your PvE, I don't see what we are doing to offend you asking for more PVP?
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Please don't troll. ~Zeb
- new PvP modes;
- new PvP Domination maps;
- guild PvP;
- PvP with PvE elements, like if there were HEs like Beholder in IWD but in PvP zone with different objectives for each side, for example, one should defend it for 10 minutes, another should kill it.
I agree since the ELO work and have many "compatible" for it instead of "nasty" pre-mades players - yes it destroys the PVP! no skill or competition with a gap of nearly 2000 points of stats - this is elitist! come on! now like to suffer or be slaughtered by those paid to win ... there is another story!
btw i play PVE/PVP and my gear is good with perfects and full rank 8/9, i am officer in my guild, but by no means agree with this vision of obtuse paying minority who just want to boost the ego in PVP premade totally unbalanced!
want to play something put a kimono and go on a mat or between Octagon and fight against each other, the more this kind of "mimimi" discussion "i want this, i want that, devs please, devs make this, devs make that because i pay a lot" that flees the fun is ridiculous! lol :-)
example is PWE's mother game PWI - TW wars were what made that game live for so may years on a PvP level... (well that an awesome vanity for the women) But over all it brought unity among guilds, and politics, and over all best part an actual community where people PvP for a bigger reason.. But somthing with same concept, but anhanced to modern game play maybe would be a win.
http://pwi-wiki.perfectworld.com/index.php/TW_Guides
I would happy accept more domination maps though new 5v5 and 10v10 maps. As someone said before, introducing a new mode will cause balancing issues. capture the flag for example, will just be whoever has the tankiest sentinel, especially with these sprint changes.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
Yeah I dont know how much work it would take, in theory you just need to allow people to create pvp maps, then during the FOUNDRY HOUR people could que for Foundry pvp maps.
You can make it totally random - and create a "vote system" afterwards (like they have now for pvp maps) then weed out bad maps each week, or w.e...
For CTF/Oddball thats actually an easy concern to address, if you hold the flag, or the "ball" ALL your powers becomes locked, meaning no sprint, no dodge, no stealth ETC.
The only advantage a GF would have would be his inherent DR, but then again other classes like TRs/GWFs have runspeed buffs. All of this to say: its a given some classes would be better and carrying than others, just the nature of the game.
Removed, Section V violation. ~Zeb
I Think the new PVP Open world maps are enough for PVP. I like the current Domination Maps, and they dont get old ive been doing competitive Neverwinter PVP since beta, and im fine with them now.
What Neverwinter really needs is a new PVE Dungeon. (with Bind On Equip) Epic Drops, that was the AD sink will make AD more Desirable then Zen is currently, And people will be doing that new Dungeon for A LONG TIME, Just like people still do Castle Never, Imagine a NEW CASTLE NEVER! Talk about game changing.
We dont need new PVP Maps, We need Better PVE (BoE) Drops.
I am in favor of PVP-foundry maps but I would like to have the rewards stricken from it (doesn't count in leaderboards too). It could be an unranked free-mode.
Also, I agree with Melody, creating new PVP game modes and balancing them does take up quite a few resources. Perhaps we can see them in module 5 or 2-months after module 4 release when people have fewer things to do in-game and are awaiting new content.
Yeah Foundry pvp wouldnt award glory or anything, just purely a fun way to play foundry...
Basically its Foundry, I mean, you dont get any loot for the PVE stuff so why would PVP be different? Just let people play it LOL
Being part of the foundry community, I can say that having foundry hour wouldn't be a good idea.
Best to have a seperate PvP map section, and rated system to weed out those poorly designed ones, creators would have an easier time to get people to play them too, unlike PvE (I had to do extensive marketing for mine). So there shouldn't be a huge issue in getting it seen/played if its well made.
But it is alot easier to create a pvp map (no script no story). But far more difficult to create a good PvP map, because you need to take into account of terrain balance, distances between spawns/nodes, and the most time consuming of all is testing for terrain/environmental bugs. And the creator must have this knowledge/pvp experience.
PvP foundry should not contribute to leaderboard/stats, but just for fun. And like current featured ones, the PvP featured ones (chosen by cryptic) could actually reward people with glory.
If these creation tools were implemented, this could solve alot of PvP content for a very long time. Allowing cryptic to focus more on PvE like fuzzychaos said.
But, PvE is a far more pressing issue, we have only had 2 new dungeons since the modules and they do not even have loot tables! and the gear is not even usuable/good (apart from the weapons). It's just not fun running those dungeons because bosses drop blues. Though PvPers may be more vocal, and spend alot of money, they ARE a minority in the population of this game. I'm not a big pvper, and i managed to get to page 20-30, which must mean theres likely less than 500 avid PvPers, thats a small fraction of the playerbase.
I hope i see 2 dungeons to make up the loss in IWD, with loot tables.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
What we need is both, but since the dev team has it's hands full with PvE content and they are the people who can hire voice actors, create new equipment and write the WoTSC approved storylines I believe that they should be allowed to focus on the PvE content.
By essentially outsourcing the creation of PvP maps to the PvP community it give the devs more time to spend on the things that the PvEers want and are too difficult for them to realistically create in the foundry due to it's inherent anti exploitation limitations.
In other words, PvP content is pretty much doomed to fail in the end unless PvP content becomes the #1 priority, but the Neverwinter franchise has always been PvE based so this won't happen.
While this IS true, I disagree there should be THIS much balance issues. The problem is DEVs make a change to a class to balance PVE but it breaks something in PVP. Then people cry and instead of making MINOR tweaks about it, they go an completely nerf/buff random <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> to compensate...
They are just using the wrong things to "rebalance"
For instance take GWF. GWFs were really really strong in module 2, then they nerfed Deep Gash which was a HUGE part of their damage, then ppl complained because GWFs did no damage, so then they give Dest a 50% damage capstone... 50%!??!
Well then people complain Dest are too OP, so now they are nerfing unstoppable, then they realize they are too weak, so they buff sprint...
This isnt rocket science, there is this thing called a middle ground you know... between 0 -50% damage buff and you know BETWEEN a 5-10% unstoppable versus a 25-50% unstoppable.
Hey maybe, just maybe, nerf that 50% capstone just a TAD and nerf unstoppable just a TAD... Now im ranting.
THATS the issue, is instead of minor tweaks, they make MAJOR ones that require constant re-balancing.
PVP balance is pretty easy, they should offer a "play with the DEVs" PVP time where they take feedback from the top say 50 pvp players. Find the 2-3 single issues and nerf that specifically.
For instance, HRs current set bonus - they OVER nerfed this, then they tried to make up for it by giving HRs a feat that does it, then made THAT OP, now have to nerf that again.... Or they coulda just evaluated the set and TWEAKED it slightly - no more changes.
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