Reaching them per se is not the problem. You can Sprint to them and with 3 TRs you can reach any ranged class. Here our troubles begin however, once next to a CW/HR/DC who can all dodge and negate any damage or cc we are left with no tool to actually catch them for long enough to land a rotation after our stamina is spent and our TR is on CD. The new stun effect is simply not enough.
Solution - let Takedown keep its prone. CWs already hulked out, HRs will be pretty much as good in mod 4. GFs are improved, DCs can be next to immortal, TRs have their one way ticket but hey, its something. Without a single prone, GWFs will be sitting ducks albeit sitting ducks with high HP and high potential damage. Having one Prone will strike a nice balance. And please do keep in mind, having 1 prone doesnt guarantee you anything as it can be very well dodged.
PS: To a CW who comes and claims that with Takedown as a Prone we will have the ability to potentially knock people down every 6 seconds I reply -> and you have a dodge which gives you the ability to potentially avoid any damage and cc every 6 secs or less.. so please go back to your own forum thread
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
- Most of the "issues" with GWF were ALREADY taken care of on the other class side. CWs have 50% DR boost now... Honestly HR could already beat GWF, TR can stalemate, GFs got a MAJOR overhaul, but MOST classes actually didnt have a TON of issues with GWF, mainly CW.
Again Crush, if you see this and want to keep this class balanced and fair. - bring prone back to takedown. (already got dmg nerf. You can adjust the "duration" of takedown to whatever fits.)
- Remove CC immunity on sprint. This needs to go, this is going to just cause issues TBH. This is why GWFs need control back, NOT some cheesy immunity. If you want, GWFs can keep some DR (id suggest deflect TBH instead).
- You can keep this mark damage stuff.
- Roar SHOULD "daze" for 1 second now IMO (keep in mind, in PVP 1 sec = about .5-.6 seconds). This should be an interrupt right? 1 sec daze actually makes this useful. GWFs are giving up CC immunity on sprint they need SOME control.
- Reduce the % chance to gain a destroyer stack to 10% (down from 25%) this is NOT the capstone, but the T4.
- Move Powerful Challenge to T3 in the Sent Tree so Destroyers cant get this. NOW you have balance....
Frontline stuns for 2-3 sec (less in pvp) and is AoE and much easier to land than Roar. Giving Roar 1 sec "daze" still makes it viable and not even close to OP for pvp. 1 sec in pvp isnt even enough time to sprint OR Threat rush to the target AND takedown, so you wont have to worry about that combo.
CC immunity on sprint NEEDs to go - this is just super cheesy and is going to be abused and make the class no fun. This is the main reason I dont want to play the class TBH. Itll be ALL about stam gain and using in short bursts for cheesy play.
Unstoppable is already nerfed to 15-30%, so GWFs overall are MUCH less tanky than before. People are also forgetting Unstoppable REcovery was NOT respecting healing depression on live, this was causing some issues as well. When they change the T4 feat to a 10% chance (down from 25%) it will make Destroyers deal less damage as well. So there shouldnt be any MAJOR issues with the class.
This is simply not enough its a big disadvantage for pvp,
more charges is Really needed!
for example like
Threatening Rush: 3 Charges 9s charge refill / compared to TR charges its this a joke
Cload of Stell: 8 Charges 3s charge refill / fast and more charges
we will not have a chance to catch our opponents or land a hit if it stays that way.
the main reason is our opponents got high & bether Dodge-Skill and more faster.
Improve Threatening Rush to 6-8Charges and reduce the charge refill to 3s
<::::::[]==0 GwF 0==[]::::::> ● Still waiting for the promised Improvement ●
I think what was making GWF so strong in pvp was the synergy between our abilities. I wish cryptic would just make small changes and gauge their effect but they dont they completely change every aspect and then try to figure out whats going on.
Just the change (fix) to roar was probably all that needed to happen. The other classes getting buffs would have closed the gap. Threatening rush, knockdowns, and DR were fine. I really dont understand the wild changes to abilities every Mod.
After having done more testing with every build I can think of so far I have some feedback on the GWF changes.
Sprint: You can make a build that is almost permasprint which grants a lot of CC immunity and significant damage reduction however there are two problems with it. First is that sprint is slow to start so it's difficult to time using sprint in order to "dodge" because it takes a moment to begin sprinting. So while it has it's uses the main problem is that even though it grants reduction you are taking damage the entire time you are sprinting without the ability to avoid damage altogether. Thus the dots such as Assailing and Hunter's careful attack still do significant damage even while you are trying to gap close or move to avoid an attack.
Takedown: Useless now in PVP. The stun is absolutely not long enough and does nil damage. It is totally an unusable skill.
Frontline surge: If you keep it the way it is, allowing it to prone it will be fine. However if it no longer prones and stuns like takedown, it will also be useless. The damage at least is nice.
IBS: Doesn't hit hard enough now compared to the other classes damage buffs. I can literally be one shotted by a GF with the damage buff given them. HR's thornward will kill you before you can damage them down. CW assailing will kill you while they absorb your damage with shield and blink around. IBS has lost it's bite which would've been fine if you didn't give such damage buffs to other classes. This is also in combination with the fact that we actually have to land it. With no true prone we will have no chance to do this effectively end game.
Roar: Fixed, thank god. No more roar fests.
Flourish: Not enough damage, difficult to land, telegraphed with long animation, easy to dodge, doesn't stun lock at the end long enough for IBS.
Threatening rush: Only decent gap closer nerfed to the ground. Think how many blinks CW's get or how many shifts HR's get. It's impossible to close the gap and lock them down now. You are killing this class on par with the GF nerf of Mod 3.
Sentinel: No DPS, runs around flailing a sword till they die.
Destroyer: No survivability, runs around flailing sword till they die.
GWF: Overall weaknesses now: Not enough dps to kill classes effectively, more importantly not enough gap closers or CC to properly land said DPS in order to PVP appropriately. We have no Dots like basically all the other classes now (GF knee break, CW assailing, HR careful attack) which allows other classes to land a DoT and then dodge around till we die. The only damage we HAD was burst. If you had left the GWF DPS the way it was it would actually be in line with all the other buffs now. As it stands you have nerfed GWF AND buffed other classes to at least the level that GWF's were in this module.
Closing thought: I was discussing mod 4 GWF nerfs with fellow guildmates this morning and a couple actually said something to the effect of, "good, it's about time, GWF's deserve to be unplayable next mod"... This sentiment underlies what I feel is being perpetrated on my class. That we were too strong for too long and now we deserve to be nerfed into oblivion as penance. We've had our time in the sun, now off to the dungeon with us. Please, kind devs, I implore you not to use this logic. Balance our class, make it fair, make us work for our kills, but please do not punish GWF's for what is essentially out of our control. We don't build the class feats, nor do we change the encounter power tooltips. We just play our class as best we can. I know you guys can do this right, and I have faith that you will make our class fun and playable in mod 4. Thanks for your time.
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
"The GWF is going to be the "new" GF for mod 4 without things done about it.
Again I want to stress, MOST good pvpers on MOST classes did not have issues with GWF, even JUST nerfing roar stun AND unstoppable recovery honestly would have been pretty close to enough. The only class that HAD issues was CW which was fixed BOTH on the GWF end and the CW end... HRs got their aspect nerfed, but wit respect to GWFs its actually a BUFF because now that GWFs cant prone, deflect is even bigger for PVP.
Id encourage you to look at my proposition Chris, I really think it would bring this class right where you want it."
^This
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
We have been looking at Tanking QoL for GWFs and wanted to improve that (and by proxy improve the damage Sentinels deal both solo and in a party). Given that we are making the following changes.
Mark: No longer removed from a Great Weapon Fighter when he is struck by his foe. It will always last its full duration.
Mark: Now properly provides 20% increased damage on the target for the Great Weapon Fighter. Still provides 8% for allies.
Mark: Now properly provides Combat Advantage against marked targets. This affects the Great Weapon Fighter and his allies.
Coupled with the improved taunting that Mark now provides (by putting you at the top of the threat list and the other changes Guardians got) Sentinel Tanking should feel much more consistent and reliable, both from the bonus threat and bonus damage you can now dish out.
These changes will NOT be making it to PTS this week, but hopefully will be in after that.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
That is amazing, now Indomitable Battle strike (and Threatning Rush) will also increase GWF damage by 20% in PVP. Awesome (not)!!! And add the 10-15% damage from flanking, that's 20-35% for the GWF and 18-23% for allies. I guess Mod 4 will also be GWF's Module? (:
After having done more testing with every build I can think of so far I have some feedback on the GWF changes.
...
^THIS is the kind of feedback devs need to listen to. Absolutely agree with all points. At least one prone is needed, while sprint DR is not. Rather shift some of sprint's power into Threatening Rush. Even now on live, latency and rubberbanding can cause problems with TR and with only 3 charges, no prones available, I think successfully landing a rotation will be close to impossible.
feedback:Weapon Master Strike need to have marking ability.
Either that OR WMS gives combat advantage (since it has one strike from the back..not sure if it already has this effect). With Staying Power (Destroyer Feat), the duration or effects of combat advantage are enhanced. Would also allow some variety rather than give both WMS and TR the same effects.
Give Swordmasters/Destroyers a bit more to balance (damage) the mark changes which mostly benefit IV. A buff to Flourish and Battle fury (yes, remember that weak party buff which probably no one uses anymore, if ever) would also be greatly appreciated.
While you would believe that the marks would threaten the safety of Destroyers, that will only be the case for lower levels/GS. Higher GS Destroyers will still be able to tank and hold aggro with this mark change (at least upto T2 dungeons). Would have been a better idea to restrict the change where Marks do not disappear when hit to a Sentinel feat, instead (T3 or higher).
0
schweifer1982Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,662Arc User
edited July 2014
Feedback :
After loong testing .
The mark dont stay ones hit by enemy (mob or ppl ) immediately disapear.
PVP balance
Testing vs CW 16 K GS full BI i can say CW can still hit 5-6000 unmignated dps single at will can hit in half sec 15k on my 20 k gs (no companion GWF)
in the mean time full stacked IBS and IS largest hit with stacked 20 dp 30% arp 7 k power 3 stack destoryer hit on CW 5-6 k dps the maximum i can reach is 10 k and this is not good cuz he use at will 15k dps i use daly 10 k dps this is no blance also CW have 40k hp too .
PS: the new lock down funcion help the CW s even more they dont need to even target now .
Actually the only CW i can beat was the worst in server and even after a few try he figured out not to use her shild .
Testing GWF vs GWF from 10 gwfs only 1 can defeated me but he have spere arti ( and he was the one from the best on server ).
Testing vs HR short version even the best GWF cant stand 16-17 k HR why ? Cuz he is almost all time full hp and he deal unmignated dmg .
Testing vs TR perma the new lock down killed tr he dont even have a little chance even if my GWF cannot prone him .
Testing vs SW the poor guy with legend arti and 40k hp have zero chance even if he have prone and i have zero prone .
Testing vs GF they are realy good actual GFs are better then GWF now hard challenge fair fight .
BUG: FS can still prone in IWD i dont got q for dpvp so i dont know if its working there too but take down prone dont worked in IWD.
BUG:
When you mark a target in PVP, when they hit you mark falls off. My understanding was mark was supposed to last 20 seconds?
I Threat Rushed a few people in IWD, they attacked back and mark fell off.....
BUG:
When you mark a target in PVP, when they hit you mark falls off. My understanding was mark was supposed to last 20 seconds?
I Threat Rushed a few people in IWD, they attacked back and mark fell off.....
the same with daring shout, when you mark them, and you are hit you lose the mark .. the description of daring shout contradicts with MARK description ..
so i was testing GWF aginst all possible players i can find in icewind pass,
and when i was PVP against all ranged players threatning rush was useless , cause every 9 sec we get threatning rush charge , but according to DEV we shld have gotten 3 charges every 9 sec . meaning every 3 sec our charge get recharged but thats not happening , or if its intended like that then its clearly not enough. need threatning rush charge to recharge every 3 sec.
1 attack of GF depletes my life by 1 quater , everytime a GF uses there encounter well u can hope what happens to GWF health , either u keep running around use pots and artifact than go attack him, which clearly not good enough cause i die soon after my stamina depletes. takedown and frontline surge damage is too low compare to any other class. FYI i m using sentinel and takedown doesnt do **** for me. neeed dmg buff on takedown and frontline surge , or reduce the CD for FS. need prone on takedown. i will upload video with players soon enough , even a CW with 27k health killed me , i had 41k health .
so plz tell me how to fight a CW cause ur nerfs are degrading the class, and if DEV think its clearly enough plz come to preview fight a CW and win against him .
golden dragon's wraith decrease total damage resistance to GWF by -3%. applied after 3rd swing of wicked strike. stacks up to 3 times.
sure good for PVE but for PVP by the time we will do 3rd strike we will be stunned and we have to start from again. golden dragon's rage decrease damage taken by 8%, increase determination from damage take by 13% for 5 seconds after a reaping strike. 1st of all nobody use reaping strike except for early stages , and if by chance we start using it its animation takes too much , while we are using it we will be prones or stuned. again no good for PVP. and for PVE not a good choice , weapon stats are nice but buff arent that good for PVE. golden dragon's ferocity increase dmg done by 4th swing of sure strike by 5%. this weapon is the only thing which sound exciting but 4th strike really , GWF dont get past 3rd strike that much in PVP , so how do u expect GWF to land 4th strike in PVP. well for PVE its good no doubt but PVP we r again forgotten.
draconic armor the most disappointing armor GWF getting in all the sets of GWF armor. even the corrupted BI gear is better than this.
3% armor penetration for ally , really , all GWF have there armor penetration at 24% for PVE so what good is this for PVE set.
from the looks of it DEV have done a wonderful job on next module.
GWF are dying perfect fully , 4 strike for encounter of GF and we dead , CW shield is so OP that its better than our unstoppable , so we cant do no dmg to GF and CW. HR still healing in a really good amount and DPS are also on high end for PVP. perma TR, catching them by now GWF encounter is close to impossible the only thing can do in any PVP is run and die.
Job well done DEVs cause GWF are dying beautifully by all classes except DC.( its not a PUN its the current reality of module 4 preview atm)
golden dragon's wraith decrease total damage resistance to GWF by -3%. applied after 3rd swing of wicked strike. stacks up to 3 times.
sure good for PVE but for PVP by the time we will do 3rd strike we will be stunned and we have to start from again. golden dragon's rage decrease damage taken by 8%, increase determination from damage take by 13% for 5 seconds after a reaping strike. 1st of all nobody use reaping strike except for early stages , and if by chance we start using it its animation takes too much , while we are using it we will be prones or stuned. again no good for PVP. and for PVE not a good choice , weapon stats are nice but buff arent that good for PVE. golden dragon's ferocity increase dmg done by 4th swing of sure strike by 5%. this weapon is the only thing which sound exciting but 4th strike really , GWF dont get past 3rd strike that much in PVP , so how do u expect GWF to land 4th strike in PVP. well for PVE its good no doubt but PVP we r again forgotten.
draconic armor the most disappointing armor GWF getting in all the sets of GWF armor. even the corrupted BI gear is better than this.
3% armor penetration for ally , really , all GWF have there armor penetration at 24% for PVE so what good is this for PVE set.
from the looks of it DEV have done a wonderful job on next module.
GWF are dying perfect fully , 4 strike for encounter of GF and we dead , CW shield is so OP that its better than our unstoppable , so we cant do no dmg to GF and CW. HR still healing in a really good amount and DPS are also on high end for PVP. perma TR, catching them by now GWF encounter is close to impossible the only thing can do in any PVP is run and die.
Job well done DEVs cause GWF are dying beautifully by all classes except DC.( its not a PUN its the current reality of module 4 preview atm)
These are the bonuses of green quality weapons, if you rank them up the bonuses become better.
from playing aginst other class GWF cant do any dmg in sent build , is no more than easy target to any other players.
GWF need more base dmg in powers to do anything against them. we cant survive in PVP against other classes clearly as shown in video , FS is proning in OPVP but it isnt anyway usefull.
we have been nerf to ground. this no class balance.
will try some offense oriented build and post video again.
feedback : Daring shout and Come and Get it needs 50% lower cooldowns.
Feedback : DeepGash needs to be increased to at 30-35% bleed from power
our at wills are weak.
make Daring Shout and Come and Get to respect the the buffs from Trample the fallen/ powerfull challange/ and marks , so if i do 4000 damage i want that damage to be increased with 20% from the mark. cause it's an encounter and should respect the marks.
Resole Perfect Elven Battle, so that we can do some builds on preview and know how we stand.
either Daring Shout or Come and Get it, make it unblockable by CW shield or GF block.
it's a good idea to not have prone in pvp, but i expect other classes to not have prone in pvp, fix that will ya?
in our past there used to be a problem with REGENERATION, and you devs found how to solve it with Healing Depresion, but now from the new updates we have the artifcat belts that gives +4 CON as legendaries, GF on preview can get around 50k hp and if they add that belt there might get about 60k hp.
so the problem with regeneration will come back.
as in the past 10% with 40k hp was a problem, now 15% / 2 (from healin depersion) 7,5% with 55k-60k hp will bring back the immortality in pvp... not to mention in the hands of the GF with shield + daily they are kinda unbeatable.
not to say about incoming healing bonus that u can get 800 from 2 artefacts and 250 from icewind boon = 1050 = 10% and from tyranny of dragons another 10% = 20% incomin healing bonus that means if it gets 1000 regen hp points he will get another 200 , and that's alot considering that when they are low hp they'll gain more.
either way, i am kinda speechless in a way because.. for some reasons as...
1. why dont you do a seassion with gwf ? and show us what build can we do to either resist/ or burn people in pvp, cause i tried to put myself in the DEVS shoes on creatin a build similar of what they tought but it's bugged... then again, i wonder what are you after?
2. still you nerfed GWF , done alot of buffs to other classes and now you bring weapons and belts that for GWF are useless against other classes even using them, this will unbalance even more , how can you nerf the damage, when you bring more HP/deflect and other things to the table? hooooooooooooooooow, tell me?
The thing I don't understand is the feat in Sentinel tree who makes 50% power into damages of 2 AoE encounters : Sentinel encounters powers Come and Get it, Daring Shout --> GWF will be tanky and also will deal high damages compared to the few tankyness and power damages of Destroyer tree (we just have nothing excepted IBS, Roar less damages, just so few AoE encounter base damages ...).
Come and Get it and Daring shout : Come and Get and Daring Shout is a really good synergy, with 8k Power it deals 4k damages + the damage bonus of Power --> damages of next power buffed, with IBS, Sentinel has 3 encounters power : one which grab adds (like a little Singularity), one which buffes your Resistance and marks all ennemy (+20% dmgs, well, and lot of adds because they're grabed by Come and Get It, and with another feat it +15% --> 35% ? Like final feat damage boost of Destroyer(40%)) and IBS which does the rest).
So in conclusion, GWF Sentinel has Tankyness and high encounters damages with a good AoE (also marks --> more damages), and GWF Destroyer has High damages boost with At-Will powers but with really bad base damages of AoE encounters powers (a GWF is for AoE...) which makes, I think, same damages (because long CD of Come and Get It and Daring Shout) compared to this Sentinel Feat (encounters power), and less tankyness obviously, with the 40% damages boost. So is Sentinel better because more polyvalent ?
This feat has to be in destroyer tree and not sentinel. Why a huge dps feat is in a tank tree (yes, it makes more threat, good for tank, but it gives huge dps compared to these <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> encounter base damages for a destroyer ...)
Tried punishing charge-takedown-ibs. Useless unless you have: punishing charge must stun. Takedown must prone. This much or you "proactive" gwf will be just a punching bag.
Ranged classes have ranged attacks, more cc and prones (!) While TAKEDOWN from a mele e class, stuns. You should understand show stupid this sounds.
Sprint has a difensive move sucks. Delayed and not reliable. You must REALLY Bring it in line with other classe dodge. A ranged CW has enough teleports to nullify sprint. A ranger classe should neve have more mobiity the a mele e class.
right now, nerfing EVERYTHING from survivability to dmg to cc, you madre pvp gwfs useless punching bags. Need ways to catch on the enemy and deal damage.
Trade-off does not mean ”nerf everything to the round". Means that a ranged class deal me lots of damage, but when i reach them i can cc and damage them. right now, instead, a gwf is about as tanky as a cw, with easy to dodge mele e powers and less cc than any other classe.
Increase determination gain from dealing damage for Destroyers/ destroyer purpose.
Give back roar original rooting effect. Why did you even take it away entirely, is beyond me.
Takedown must PRONE. The stun with tenacity lasts 1 second or so. This means a GWF eats a ton of damage and gets PRONED BY RANGED ENEMIES, then can stun them for 1 second and hit with a IBS that usually is deflected against high deflect halfling PvP builds.
Sprint is not reliable as a defensive move. Too delayed and if used to defend, leaves you with no gap closer to counter the ranged classes teleports/ dodges. You said you wanted to bring it "in line". But if you put it "in line" with the move of a ranged class, you still put the melee class at a disadvantage, you understand this? You either double our stamina or sprint, right now, is enough to reach the enemy and may be close the gap after the first teleport. After that, you're out of stamina and the enemy still have more dodge moves.
Damage nerf, CC nerf, survivability nerf. Along with buffs to other classes, way to sever. Keep going down this road and you will destroy the class in Mod 4 just to please the whining crowd.
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iceloudMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2014
Thats name Take Down but no prone lol. Thanks...GWF R.İ.P
Comments
Solution - let Takedown keep its prone. CWs already hulked out, HRs will be pretty much as good in mod 4. GFs are improved, DCs can be next to immortal, TRs have their one way ticket but hey, its something. Without a single prone, GWFs will be sitting ducks albeit sitting ducks with high HP and high potential damage. Having one Prone will strike a nice balance. And please do keep in mind, having 1 prone doesnt guarantee you anything as it can be very well dodged.
PS: To a CW who comes and claims that with Takedown as a Prone we will have the ability to potentially knock people down every 6 seconds I reply -> and you have a dodge which gives you the ability to potentially avoid any damage and cc every 6 secs or less.. so please go back to your own forum thread
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Again Crush, if you see this and want to keep this class balanced and fair.
- bring prone back to takedown. (already got dmg nerf. You can adjust the "duration" of takedown to whatever fits.)
- Remove CC immunity on sprint. This needs to go, this is going to just cause issues TBH. This is why GWFs need control back, NOT some cheesy immunity. If you want, GWFs can keep some DR (id suggest deflect TBH instead).
- You can keep this mark damage stuff.
- Roar SHOULD "daze" for 1 second now IMO (keep in mind, in PVP 1 sec = about .5-.6 seconds). This should be an interrupt right? 1 sec daze actually makes this useful. GWFs are giving up CC immunity on sprint they need SOME control.
- Reduce the % chance to gain a destroyer stack to 10% (down from 25%) this is NOT the capstone, but the T4.
- Move Powerful Challenge to T3 in the Sent Tree so Destroyers cant get this. NOW you have balance....
Frontline stuns for 2-3 sec (less in pvp) and is AoE and much easier to land than Roar. Giving Roar 1 sec "daze" still makes it viable and not even close to OP for pvp. 1 sec in pvp isnt even enough time to sprint OR Threat rush to the target AND takedown, so you wont have to worry about that combo.
CC immunity on sprint NEEDs to go - this is just super cheesy and is going to be abused and make the class no fun. This is the main reason I dont want to play the class TBH. Itll be ALL about stam gain and using in short bursts for cheesy play.
Unstoppable is already nerfed to 15-30%, so GWFs overall are MUCH less tanky than before. People are also forgetting Unstoppable REcovery was NOT respecting healing depression on live, this was causing some issues as well. When they change the T4 feat to a 10% chance (down from 25%) it will make Destroyers deal less damage as well. So there shouldnt be any MAJOR issues with the class.
Overall this would honestly make them fair.
This is simply not enough its a big disadvantage for pvp,
more charges is Really needed!
for example like
Threatening Rush: 3 Charges 9s charge refill / compared to TR charges its this a joke
Cload of Stell: 8 Charges 3s charge refill / fast and more charges
we will not have a chance to catch our opponents or land a hit if it stays that way.
the main reason is our opponents got high & bether Dodge-Skill and more faster.
Improve Threatening Rush to 6-8Charges and reduce the charge refill to 3s
What do you mean spam target lock?
Just the change (fix) to roar was probably all that needed to happen. The other classes getting buffs would have closed the gap. Threatening rush, knockdowns, and DR were fine. I really dont understand the wild changes to abilities every Mod.
Sprint: You can make a build that is almost permasprint which grants a lot of CC immunity and significant damage reduction however there are two problems with it. First is that sprint is slow to start so it's difficult to time using sprint in order to "dodge" because it takes a moment to begin sprinting. So while it has it's uses the main problem is that even though it grants reduction you are taking damage the entire time you are sprinting without the ability to avoid damage altogether. Thus the dots such as Assailing and Hunter's careful attack still do significant damage even while you are trying to gap close or move to avoid an attack.
Takedown: Useless now in PVP. The stun is absolutely not long enough and does nil damage. It is totally an unusable skill.
Frontline surge: If you keep it the way it is, allowing it to prone it will be fine. However if it no longer prones and stuns like takedown, it will also be useless. The damage at least is nice.
IBS: Doesn't hit hard enough now compared to the other classes damage buffs. I can literally be one shotted by a GF with the damage buff given them. HR's thornward will kill you before you can damage them down. CW assailing will kill you while they absorb your damage with shield and blink around. IBS has lost it's bite which would've been fine if you didn't give such damage buffs to other classes. This is also in combination with the fact that we actually have to land it. With no true prone we will have no chance to do this effectively end game.
Roar: Fixed, thank god. No more roar fests.
Flourish: Not enough damage, difficult to land, telegraphed with long animation, easy to dodge, doesn't stun lock at the end long enough for IBS.
Threatening rush: Only decent gap closer nerfed to the ground. Think how many blinks CW's get or how many shifts HR's get. It's impossible to close the gap and lock them down now. You are killing this class on par with the GF nerf of Mod 3.
Sentinel: No DPS, runs around flailing a sword till they die.
Destroyer: No survivability, runs around flailing sword till they die.
GWF: Overall weaknesses now: Not enough dps to kill classes effectively, more importantly not enough gap closers or CC to properly land said DPS in order to PVP appropriately. We have no Dots like basically all the other classes now (GF knee break, CW assailing, HR careful attack) which allows other classes to land a DoT and then dodge around till we die. The only damage we HAD was burst. If you had left the GWF DPS the way it was it would actually be in line with all the other buffs now. As it stands you have nerfed GWF AND buffed other classes to at least the level that GWF's were in this module.
Closing thought: I was discussing mod 4 GWF nerfs with fellow guildmates this morning and a couple actually said something to the effect of, "good, it's about time, GWF's deserve to be unplayable next mod"... This sentiment underlies what I feel is being perpetrated on my class. That we were too strong for too long and now we deserve to be nerfed into oblivion as penance. We've had our time in the sun, now off to the dungeon with us. Please, kind devs, I implore you not to use this logic. Balance our class, make it fair, make us work for our kills, but please do not punish GWF's for what is essentially out of our control. We don't build the class feats, nor do we change the encounter power tooltips. We just play our class as best we can. I know you guys can do this right, and I have faith that you will make our class fun and playable in mod 4. Thanks for your time.
Again I want to stress, MOST good pvpers on MOST classes did not have issues with GWF, even JUST nerfing roar stun AND unstoppable recovery honestly would have been pretty close to enough. The only class that HAD issues was CW which was fixed BOTH on the GWF end and the CW end... HRs got their aspect nerfed, but wit respect to GWFs its actually a BUFF because now that GWFs cant prone, deflect is even bigger for PVP.
Id encourage you to look at my proposition Chris, I really think it would bring this class right where you want it."
^This
That is amazing, now Indomitable Battle strike (and Threatning Rush) will also increase GWF damage by 20% in PVP. Awesome (not)!!! And add the 10-15% damage from flanking, that's 20-35% for the GWF and 18-23% for allies. I guess Mod 4 will also be GWF's Module? (:
#1 Enemy Team PvP Devoted Cleric
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^THIS is the kind of feedback devs need to listen to. Absolutely agree with all points. At least one prone is needed, while sprint DR is not. Rather shift some of sprint's power into Threatening Rush. Even now on live, latency and rubberbanding can cause problems with TR and with only 3 charges, no prones available, I think successfully landing a rotation will be close to impossible.
-some problems with Savage Advance animation.
feedback : daring shout and come and get it deserve lower cooldowns. and to respec the buffs from mark and powerfull challange feat.
instead of threat, it should give 50% cooldown reduction. and the damage should be unblockable similar to CW assailant.
Either that OR WMS gives combat advantage (since it has one strike from the back..not sure if it already has this effect). With Staying Power (Destroyer Feat), the duration or effects of combat advantage are enhanced. Would also allow some variety rather than give both WMS and TR the same effects.
Give Swordmasters/Destroyers a bit more to balance (damage) the mark changes which mostly benefit IV. A buff to Flourish and Battle fury (yes, remember that weak party buff which probably no one uses anymore, if ever) would also be greatly appreciated.
While you would believe that the marks would threaten the safety of Destroyers, that will only be the case for lower levels/GS. Higher GS Destroyers will still be able to tank and hold aggro with this mark change (at least upto T2 dungeons). Would have been a better idea to restrict the change where Marks do not disappear when hit to a Sentinel feat, instead (T3 or higher).
After loong testing .
The mark dont stay ones hit by enemy (mob or ppl ) immediately disapear.
PVP balance
Testing vs CW 16 K GS full BI i can say CW can still hit 5-6000 unmignated dps single at will can hit in half sec 15k on my 20 k gs (no companion GWF)
in the mean time full stacked IBS and IS largest hit with stacked 20 dp 30% arp 7 k power 3 stack destoryer hit on CW 5-6 k dps the maximum i can reach is 10 k and this is not good cuz he use at will 15k dps i use daly 10 k dps this is no blance also CW have 40k hp too .
PS: the new lock down funcion help the CW s even more they dont need to even target now .
Actually the only CW i can beat was the worst in server and even after a few try he figured out not to use her shild .
Testing GWF vs GWF from 10 gwfs only 1 can defeated me but he have spere arti ( and he was the one from the best on server ).
Testing vs HR short version even the best GWF cant stand 16-17 k HR why ? Cuz he is almost all time full hp and he deal unmignated dmg .
Testing vs TR perma the new lock down killed tr he dont even have a little chance even if my GWF cannot prone him .
Testing vs SW the poor guy with legend arti and 40k hp have zero chance even if he have prone and i have zero prone .
Testing vs GF they are realy good actual GFs are better then GWF now hard challenge fair fight .
BUG: FS can still prone in IWD i dont got q for dpvp so i dont know if its working there too but take down prone dont worked in IWD.
I think only the 20% damage buff from marks made into this week's Preview patch.
The patch notes seemed to indicate the mark damage buff made it in. I could be wrong, though.
When you mark a target in PVP, when they hit you mark falls off. My understanding was mark was supposed to last 20 seconds?
I Threat Rushed a few people in IWD, they attacked back and mark fell off.....
the same with daring shout, when you mark them, and you are hit you lose the mark .. the description of daring shout contradicts with MARK description ..
either way... lower cooldowns :P
and when i was PVP against all ranged players threatning rush was useless , cause every 9 sec we get threatning rush charge , but according to DEV we shld have gotten 3 charges every 9 sec . meaning every 3 sec our charge get recharged but thats not happening , or if its intended like that then its clearly not enough.
need threatning rush charge to recharge every 3 sec.
1 attack of GF depletes my life by 1 quater , everytime a GF uses there encounter well u can hope what happens to GWF health , either u keep running around use pots and artifact than go attack him, which clearly not good enough cause i die soon after my stamina depletes. takedown and frontline surge damage is too low compare to any other class. FYI i m using sentinel and takedown doesnt do **** for me.
neeed dmg buff on takedown and frontline surge , or reduce the CD for FS. need prone on takedown.
i will upload video with players soon enough , even a CW with 27k health killed me , i had 41k health .
so plz tell me how to fight a CW cause ur nerfs are degrading the class, and if DEV think its clearly enough plz come to preview fight a CW and win against him .
golden dragon's wraith
decrease total damage resistance to GWF by -3%. applied after 3rd swing of wicked strike. stacks up to 3 times.
sure good for PVE but for PVP by the time we will do 3rd strike we will be stunned and we have to start from again.
golden dragon's rage
decrease damage taken by 8%, increase determination from damage take by 13% for 5 seconds after a reaping strike.
1st of all nobody use reaping strike except for early stages , and if by chance we start using it its animation takes too much , while we are using it we will be prones or stuned. again no good for PVP. and for PVE not a good choice , weapon stats are nice but buff arent that good for PVE.
golden dragon's ferocity
increase dmg done by 4th swing of sure strike by 5%.
this weapon is the only thing which sound exciting but 4th strike really , GWF dont get past 3rd strike that much in PVP , so how do u expect GWF to land 4th strike in PVP. well for PVE its good no doubt but PVP we r again forgotten.
draconic armor
the most disappointing armor GWF getting in all the sets of GWF armor. even the corrupted BI gear is better than this.
3% armor penetration for ally , really , all GWF have there armor penetration at 24% for PVE so what good is this for PVE set.
from the looks of it DEV have done a wonderful job on next module.
GWF are dying perfect fully , 4 strike for encounter of GF and we dead , CW shield is so OP that its better than our unstoppable , so we cant do no dmg to GF and CW. HR still healing in a really good amount and DPS are also on high end for PVP. perma TR, catching them by now GWF encounter is close to impossible the only thing can do in any PVP is run and die.
Job well done DEVs cause GWF are dying beautifully by all classes except DC.( its not a PUN its the current reality of module 4 preview atm)
These are the bonuses of green quality weapons, if you rank them up the bonuses become better.
Pics: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?716931-Module-4-GF-GWF-Legendary-Artifact-Weapons&p=8517331&viewfull=1#post8517331
GWF vs TR
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGu27KA1P48
GWF vs HR
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrIOqjqmBgE
GWF vs GF
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIFPI6Yegk8
the build is as shown in pics
(http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?717311-GWF-vs-other-class&p=8522571&viewfull=1#post8522571)
plz dont discuss about them in feedback section.
u can discuss about them in discussion section or http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?717311-GWF-vs-other-class.
from playing aginst other class GWF cant do any dmg in sent build , is no more than easy target to any other players.
GWF need more base dmg in powers to do anything against them.
we cant survive in PVP against other classes clearly as shown in video , FS is proning in OPVP but it isnt anyway usefull.
we have been nerf to ground. this no class balance.
will try some offense oriented build and post video again.
Feedback : DeepGash needs to be increased to at 30-35% bleed from power
our at wills are weak.
make Daring Shout and Come and Get to respect the the buffs from Trample the fallen/ powerfull challange/ and marks , so if i do 4000 damage i want that damage to be increased with 20% from the mark. cause it's an encounter and should respect the marks.
Resole Perfect Elven Battle, so that we can do some builds on preview and know how we stand.
either Daring Shout or Come and Get it, make it unblockable by CW shield or GF block.
it's a good idea to not have prone in pvp, but i expect other classes to not have prone in pvp, fix that will ya?
in our past there used to be a problem with REGENERATION, and you devs found how to solve it with Healing Depresion, but now from the new updates we have the artifcat belts that gives +4 CON as legendaries, GF on preview can get around 50k hp and if they add that belt there might get about 60k hp.
so the problem with regeneration will come back.
as in the past 10% with 40k hp was a problem, now 15% / 2 (from healin depersion) 7,5% with 55k-60k hp will bring back the immortality in pvp... not to mention in the hands of the GF with shield + daily they are kinda unbeatable.
not to say about incoming healing bonus that u can get 800 from 2 artefacts and 250 from icewind boon = 1050 = 10% and from tyranny of dragons another 10% = 20% incomin healing bonus that means if it gets 1000 regen hp points he will get another 200 , and that's alot considering that when they are low hp they'll gain more.
either way, i am kinda speechless in a way because.. for some reasons as...
1. why dont you do a seassion with gwf ? and show us what build can we do to either resist/ or burn people in pvp, cause i tried to put myself in the DEVS shoes on creatin a build similar of what they tought but it's bugged... then again, i wonder what are you after?
2. still you nerfed GWF , done alot of buffs to other classes and now you bring weapons and belts that for GWF are useless against other classes even using them, this will unbalance even more , how can you nerf the damage, when you bring more HP/deflect and other things to the table? hooooooooooooooooow, tell me?
Come and Get it and Daring shout : Come and Get and Daring Shout is a really good synergy, with 8k Power it deals 4k damages + the damage bonus of Power --> damages of next power buffed, with IBS, Sentinel has 3 encounters power : one which grab adds (like a little Singularity), one which buffes your Resistance and marks all ennemy (+20% dmgs, well, and lot of adds because they're grabed by Come and Get It, and with another feat it +15% --> 35% ? Like final feat damage boost of Destroyer(40%)) and IBS which does the rest).
So in conclusion, GWF Sentinel has Tankyness and high encounters damages with a good AoE (also marks --> more damages), and GWF Destroyer has High damages boost with At-Will powers but with really bad base damages of AoE encounters powers (a GWF is for AoE...) which makes, I think, same damages (because long CD of Come and Get It and Daring Shout) compared to this Sentinel Feat (encounters power), and less tankyness obviously, with the 40% damages boost. So is Sentinel better because more polyvalent ?
This feat has to be in destroyer tree and not sentinel. Why a huge dps feat is in a tank tree (yes, it makes more threat, good for tank, but it gives huge dps compared to these <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> encounter base damages for a destroyer ...)
Tried punishing charge-takedown-ibs. Useless unless you have: punishing charge must stun. Takedown must prone. This much or you "proactive" gwf will be just a punching bag.
Ranged classes have ranged attacks, more cc and prones (!) While TAKEDOWN from a mele e class, stuns. You should understand show stupid this sounds.
Sprint has a difensive move sucks. Delayed and not reliable. You must REALLY Bring it in line with other classe dodge. A ranged CW has enough teleports to nullify sprint. A ranger classe should neve have more mobiity the a mele e class.
right now, nerfing EVERYTHING from survivability to dmg to cc, you madre pvp gwfs useless punching bags. Need ways to catch on the enemy and deal damage.
Trade-off does not mean ”nerf everything to the round". Means that a ranged class deal me lots of damage, but when i reach them i can cc and damage them. right now, instead, a gwf is about as tanky as a cw, with easy to dodge mele e powers and less cc than any other classe.
Increase determination gain from dealing damage for Destroyers/ destroyer purpose.
Give back roar original rooting effect. Why did you even take it away entirely, is beyond me.
Takedown must PRONE. The stun with tenacity lasts 1 second or so. This means a GWF eats a ton of damage and gets PRONED BY RANGED ENEMIES, then can stun them for 1 second and hit with a IBS that usually is deflected against high deflect halfling PvP builds.
Sprint is not reliable as a defensive move. Too delayed and if used to defend, leaves you with no gap closer to counter the ranged classes teleports/ dodges. You said you wanted to bring it "in line". But if you put it "in line" with the move of a ranged class, you still put the melee class at a disadvantage, you understand this? You either double our stamina or sprint, right now, is enough to reach the enemy and may be close the gap after the first teleport. After that, you're out of stamina and the enemy still have more dodge moves.
Damage nerf, CC nerf, survivability nerf. Along with buffs to other classes, way to sever. Keep going down this road and you will destroy the class in Mod 4 just to please the whining crowd.