its also hard to survive the kv at times and it takes practice and attentive allies i dont have too much trouble with it because of my immunity but if no immunity KV can be a death sentence especially if you are a conq.
Should clarify that i mean a lower gs damage focused conq.
i kind of cured this by making kv only at level 1 so the duration doesnt last long enough to die from but still lasts long enough to provide protection.
to add to that kv is the best protection skill but his GF generates threat through attacks/marks and because he is constantly jumping around and getting threat kv would also interrupt that because he'd have to give up an encounter.
what does he get rid of to slot kv is the question if he has little trouble with aggro then he doesnt need it.
the style allows the gf to auto-kite by jumping from enemy to enemy gaining aggro and adding marks as he jumps; im only educated guessing as thats not my style.
also im wondering what you think of trying tide of iron and threatening rush and using stab to attack it would bring up shield elasticity and would add a debuff effect that would stack with mark that way you can do the same basic thing but would avoid problems associated with having a broken shield.
Also don't recommend using KV? Really? It's hands down one of the best skills a GF has when used properly. You do know it generates threat based off of damage soaked right?
KV sucks becuase it bugs out and goes on lockdown. Its a not bad skill if you are in a group with low-geared party members and have a decent healthpool. otherwise its better off slotting something else. Also with GWFs its more deprimental than beneficial since they jsut eat all that damage on purpose, whilst you don't want it.
People may have noticed this with knights challenge too, but the KV bug has been around since open beta. I can't stand it because of this reason.
I don't know that there is any real threat generation math available. But it seems that mark has a combinative effect with damage. So OP's policy of backing that Enforced threat up with a couple of cleaves is what I also have found effective. The trick for me is to never be in one place long enough to deplete my guard. Attack animations on most mobs are fairly slow so you can kind of orbit the pack laying damage on top of your marks to keep their attention. I never get the complaint that GFs are slow because they lack dodge/ sprint. TR and a lunge every few seconds means I am rarely using AWSD to move, just adjust direction for my next launch. And plain old jumping to get clear LOS on something you want to lunge.
So from the bugged stand point I can see what you are saying. From the GWF standpoint though, I would say it makes very little difference for unstoppable and might actually even be easier to gauge as they still take half damage.
More curious though is why would you worry about that to begin with? The only reason you would want the GWF soaking more damage and popping of unstops is if you wanted the increased party damage output which ironically enough if it was a concern of yours you wouldn't be using GF to begin with.
Knight's Valor is a great party survival threat generation mechanism which helps keep adds on you whilst still boosting party DPS through combat advantage for your group. Threat control + damage mitigation + party damage boosted is win.
epclipseingmoonMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2014
Again Knights Valor is only good if you’re with a lower geared group or you fail to get all mobs agro... I would use it if we had 4 encounter slots but we only have 3 and lunging strike and Frontline serge are a must really. Point is if I were to use Knights Valor over Enforced threat for example yes I would still get agro but my shield would be broken by the time they all come at me and everyone would have suffered some damage too, well the ones the mobs were picking on anyway at least. Its suicide to use it when you have all the agro on you too even if you could take half of the peoples damage getting aoed. But again if the tank dies with all the mobs aoeing in that area it would be hard to revive the tank too. So my style is risky enough without adding major risk from kv :P
GWFs will eat reds on purpose to gain unstoppable (i do on my gwf) so they take around 15k hit total (which i do often on my gwf) so i can pop unstoppable knowing my health will shoot back up from lifesteal. The poor GF will have to eat those hits regularly for no reason.
I still like the skill for when it is useful (carrying low-geared squads). But like others have said lunging (mobility), frontline (CC), enforced threat are encounters that are great to work with, and enforced threat having a hard taunt + damage> knight's valor need for people to get hit before gaining them, a CW needs to get hit by every mob they agro before they turn to face you? enforced threat + frontline can neutralise threats more immediately. The only advantage i see it being taken over enforced threat, is for range mobs, But you can use lunge for those.
Before I start this guide I would like to say a Guardian Fighter can handle a lot of mobs and thus can tank really well despite what a lot of other people say. This guide is based on how to be effective as a punching bag for all mobs in the area and this takes a lot of practice because the GF is probably the hardest class to learn to fill your team role.
For anyone who does not understand the true role of a tank please read this:
A tank is a style of character in gaming, often associated with a character class. A common convention in real-time strategy games, role-playing games, Fighting Games and MUDs, tanks redirect enemy attacks or attention toward themselves in order to protect other characters or units. Since this role often requires them to suffer large amounts of damage, they rely on large amounts of vitality or armor, evasiveness and misdirection, or self regeneration.
Got that paragraph from Wikipedia but that sums up our role, I have noticed many people seem to not realize our purpose. Amber's Guardian Fighter Tanking Guide
Note this style of tanking takes lots of practice and also you do have to change your timing with different gear if it changes your guard meter especially. Also A GF will never be a dps monster like all other classes.
The reason why no one takes us GF’s to the dungeon is because of the end dps tree all current guides will get you on the bottom of the pain giver board. Seeing a super low dps GF over and over turns people off even if they’re using gear like the knight captain to buff everyone. Even if you buff everyone 5 – 15% that most of the time will only count as a 4 man run because you are not doing much damage. I would only gear to help the team if I played the support class aka the devoted cleric.
Powers best for tanking:
Daily’s: Indomitable Strength – Fighters Recovery
Encounters: Lunging Strike – Enforced Threat – Frontline Surge
At-Will: Cleave – Threatening Rush
Class Feature: Combat Superiority – Enhanced Mark My tanking style:
As a guardian fighter you are the person who should lead rather than follow your party, as soon as you get close to mobs lunge at them and use enforced threat and cleave them a couple of times then jump to the next group probably with threatening rush cause lunging strike would probably still be on cool down and strike that group. That’s the basic part rinse and repeat but also watch your party if something attacks them, lunge or threatening rush to them and cleave to collect agro.
Never just stand and block keep moving back when you have a lot of mobs on you.
So now you will have a lot of mobs after you don’t run to much rather block run back to avoid aoes when shield breaks. Once your shield breaks be careful and use frontline, lunging and threatening rush but keep jumping away to build action points for fighters recovery. As soon as fighter’s recovery is ready cast it and go all in no need to block for a few seconds. If you get surrounded, use frontline to create an opening to escape. But try to keep the mob in one area unless you’re kiting adds for a boss like in the frozen heart for example.
You will die many times while you learn and prefect this style. You will need to be able to judge when to move back from the mobs before your shield breaks so just don’t give up. When you start to master this style you won’t need to use many potions either.
Only time I change skills is for MC and VT final boss, I swap Enforced threat for Knights challenge even though it is a bugged skill.
The reason to take all agro is because your aoe classes can do tones more damage if the mobs are all together. I have seen many guides that recommend knight’s Valor but that does not work if you are being a real tank. The others wont get hurt as much anyway using my style but they will have to watch the aoes.
Well that’s the basic guide I will revise and add to it eventually though as something’s probably don’t make sense.
I've never been into T1/T2with my GF 'sept for some GG .. I have no idea where to practise tanking (IWD maybe ). Can you solo a totem encounter with undead spawns?
Also since I've played a Tank in other Cryptic games here is my understanding - You are the toughest SoB around. Highest HP and best resistance/deflection. You aggro a large group of enemies either by hard Taunt abilities or some aoe damage abilities, you can move around if you want but you're in fact strong enough to stand in the middle of 50 adds and tank them while your party melts them. Once you get all the aggro you keep it by: some aoe cc, some aoe damage, aoe Taunt ability. You mitigate some damage thru aoe cc, the rest you soak. You have a self healing ability, you most likely regen alot.
This is tank. GF is a runner, he stands still he dies
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
i play GF, suppose to be my fav class, but i am having problem with his run speed, it hard to catch up when others are running ahead in dungeons.
i think cryptic need to overhaul run speed or eliminate penality due to heavy armors, they almost cant outrun red rings.
Comments
Should clarify that i mean a lower gs damage focused conq.
i kind of cured this by making kv only at level 1 so the duration doesnt last long enough to die from but still lasts long enough to provide protection.
to add to that kv is the best protection skill but his GF generates threat through attacks/marks and because he is constantly jumping around and getting threat kv would also interrupt that because he'd have to give up an encounter.
what does he get rid of to slot kv is the question if he has little trouble with aggro then he doesnt need it.
the style allows the gf to auto-kite by jumping from enemy to enemy gaining aggro and adding marks as he jumps; im only educated guessing as thats not my style.
also im wondering what you think of trying tide of iron and threatening rush and using stab to attack it would bring up shield elasticity and would add a debuff effect that would stack with mark that way you can do the same basic thing but would avoid problems associated with having a broken shield.
KV sucks becuase it bugs out and goes on lockdown. Its a not bad skill if you are in a group with low-geared party members and have a decent healthpool. otherwise its better off slotting something else. Also with GWFs its more deprimental than beneficial since they jsut eat all that damage on purpose, whilst you don't want it.
People may have noticed this with knights challenge too, but the KV bug has been around since open beta. I can't stand it because of this reason.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
More curious though is why would you worry about that to begin with? The only reason you would want the GWF soaking more damage and popping of unstops is if you wanted the increased party damage output which ironically enough if it was a concern of yours you wouldn't be using GF to begin with.
Knight's Valor is a great party survival threat generation mechanism which helps keep adds on you whilst still boosting party DPS through combat advantage for your group. Threat control + damage mitigation + party damage boosted is win.
Gloom level 60 Control Wizard
Dusk level 60 Trickster Rogue
Dawn level 60 Devoted Cleric
Eclipse level 60 Hunter Ranger
Wrath level 60 Great Weapon Fighter
Jinx level 60 Scourge Warlock
It works ok but the frost would probally be better because it reduces the mobs recovery. I just went with this one because its not that common.
Princess Amber - DC
Shieldmaiden Amber - GF
Valkyrie Amber - GWF
Huntress Amber - HR
Princess Amber - DC
Shieldmaiden Amber - GF
Valkyrie Amber - GWF
Huntress Amber - HR
I still like the skill for when it is useful (carrying low-geared squads). But like others have said lunging (mobility), frontline (CC), enforced threat are encounters that are great to work with, and enforced threat having a hard taunt + damage> knight's valor need for people to get hit before gaining them, a CW needs to get hit by every mob they agro before they turn to face you? enforced threat + frontline can neutralise threats more immediately. The only advantage i see it being taken over enforced threat, is for range mobs, But you can use lunge for those.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
I've never been into T1/T2with my GF 'sept for some GG
Also since I've played a Tank in other Cryptic games here is my understanding - You are the toughest SoB around. Highest HP and best resistance/deflection. You aggro a large group of enemies either by hard Taunt abilities or some aoe damage abilities, you can move around if you want but you're in fact strong enough to stand in the middle of 50 adds and tank them while your party melts them. Once you get all the aggro you keep it by: some aoe cc, some aoe damage, aoe Taunt ability. You mitigate some damage thru aoe cc, the rest you soak. You have a self healing ability, you most likely regen alot.
This is tank. GF is a runner, he stands still he dies
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
dang i miss my city
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
i think cryptic need to overhaul run speed or eliminate penality due to heavy armors, they almost cant outrun red rings.