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Ah yes, "Reapers"™
So.
There was a "new content patch" applied recently. Megafun.jpg, "brand new gear", "brand new quests" and "brand new campaign". Most importantly for HRs, "brand new paragon path" - the one we've been desperately craving for. So yeah, we have two PPs now. Yay?
As if.
Prior to this patch we weren't awesome. In fact, we were far from being a viable DPS slot in VT or MC runs, since those mostly consist of trashtrashtrashtrash and AOEAOEAOEAOEAOE with occasional "burn'em within 30 seconds" boss. Because of that Hurps and Derps around us always were looking for "3 GWF 2 CW FOR MC PLZ NAO!!1" and "NEED 2 CW 4 VT 1/2 FARM RUN /W GS". Mostly. You get the idea.
Therefore we had some issues getting into such farm runs. It wasn't as hard as it was for TRs though, but nobody wanted to pick a HR over a CW or GWF. Reason is simple, since dungeons mostly consist of AOE and trash, the faster you burn trashpacks, the faster you farm those fancy tokens.
Problem is, CWs had 1.5-2.0 times our AOE damage capability (and their AOE is helluva burst, unlike our steady shootin') plus they have loads of CC. Makes sence, since they're _Control_ Wizards. Doesn't really help us in our case, tho.
GWFs can tank through nearly all punishment, and they still outdamage HRs. Their AOE is more of a steady rollin', but its massive when they poke their [Tab]. We cannot possibly hope to outdamage that.
HRs lack proper AOE damage, HRs have no (as in, ZERO) viable crowd control abilities to use in dungeon runs, HRs are even more squishy than CWs. The only thing that saves us from imminent death is our sprint-dash. If timed properly, it can save us from some instagib hit such as Valindra's midphase. Still, we are NOT a viable Damage Dealer slot if party leader decides to go for fast clean sweep farmruns. He will pick an extra CW or GWF anytime, anywhere.
So then a wild patch appears.
We've been asking for proper AOE skills. Spamming Atwills ONLY is boring and it deals low damage.
We've been asking for proper CC. It may give us a chance of being useful in party runs.
We've been asking for second Paragon Path for quite a while. We though that since our current one had quite a lot of melee abilities, maybe next one would actually bring the long range shooting to its glory and we will be finally able to outperform CWs/GWFs - if not in terms of CC/Utility, then at least in sheer damage.
We got owned.
Not only devs did not heed a single one of our cries, they actually made everything vice versa.
The only skill we had to deal AOE damage with? Nerfed even further by -25%.
The fancy PP we placed our hopes upon? Ended up being PURE BULLSHIFT.
Instead of reliable long-range sniper PP or maybe dedicated melee PP, we got a steaming pile of "content".
A semi-support.
That has no use at all.
So lets take a look at what did they get us?
A skill that drops a "healthpack" after target is killed, which may be used to heal party and recharge some Action points.
Now read again. Drops a healthpack. After target is killed. When combat is over.
Do you have any desperate need to "heal" your party for miserable amount after boss is dead? Hell, do you even need that after some miserable trashpack is dead?
No.
And on top of that it only applies to a single target at once. Flock me sideways. Blizzard-class game design.
Then it comes to a skill that increases damage taken by a target for some certain amount every time target gets hit. Sounds nice? Sounds sweet? You're already calculating the profit you'd get for debuffing Valindra with this buff to allow your party to deal immense damage?
Well... "think again". For it deals whimsical damage that does not even justify having the joke of a "support HR" in your party. Even CW will outdamage him on a single target. Overall party DPS will go down a whoppin' lot if you get one.
And as if that wouldn't be enough by itself, they also "invented" an inner cooldown for that bonus damage proc. So it doesn't matter if there are lots of people hitting the boss very fast, damage bonus will be as low as it would be for HR alone poking that HP bar.
Yay 4 the awesome skeel.
Then there is an awesome Daily power that might actually draw some attention. Daily power that increases guard and stamina recovery when other players are hitting this debuffed target. Nice? Awesome?
Think again.
Costs 100% AP (can be cut down to 75%, but you'll have to waste a lot of talent points).
Deals unimpressive damage to a single target. Way less than Seismic shot deals to multiple enemies.
Repositions you in the middle of a boss. Yes, that means that you'll get instagibbed by the next PBAOE. Fun™.
Bonus effects are... yeah, good guess. Whimsical. Nobody will actually notice those if they won't pay dedicated attention.
So here's the "brand new awesome glorious Paragon Path". It is, in fact, a way to dump 600 ZEN for two respecs.
And then some awesome buffs occur! "We just buffed your Electric shot, be grateful and GTFO!" they said.
Many thanks.
ES still deals less damage than Split shot does. That's right, less than nerfed Split shot does.
Remind me what did CWs and GWFs get?
Right.
I'm done.
There was a "new content patch" applied recently. Megafun.jpg, "brand new gear", "brand new quests" and "brand new campaign". Most importantly for HRs, "brand new paragon path" - the one we've been desperately craving for. So yeah, we have two PPs now. Yay?
As if.
Prior to this patch we weren't awesome. In fact, we were far from being a viable DPS slot in VT or MC runs, since those mostly consist of trashtrashtrashtrash and AOEAOEAOEAOEAOE with occasional "burn'em within 30 seconds" boss. Because of that Hurps and Derps around us always were looking for "3 GWF 2 CW FOR MC PLZ NAO!!1" and "NEED 2 CW 4 VT 1/2 FARM RUN /W GS". Mostly. You get the idea.
Therefore we had some issues getting into such farm runs. It wasn't as hard as it was for TRs though, but nobody wanted to pick a HR over a CW or GWF. Reason is simple, since dungeons mostly consist of AOE and trash, the faster you burn trashpacks, the faster you farm those fancy tokens.
Problem is, CWs had 1.5-2.0 times our AOE damage capability (and their AOE is helluva burst, unlike our steady shootin') plus they have loads of CC. Makes sence, since they're _Control_ Wizards. Doesn't really help us in our case, tho.
GWFs can tank through nearly all punishment, and they still outdamage HRs. Their AOE is more of a steady rollin', but its massive when they poke their [Tab]. We cannot possibly hope to outdamage that.
HRs lack proper AOE damage, HRs have no (as in, ZERO) viable crowd control abilities to use in dungeon runs, HRs are even more squishy than CWs. The only thing that saves us from imminent death is our sprint-dash. If timed properly, it can save us from some instagib hit such as Valindra's midphase. Still, we are NOT a viable Damage Dealer slot if party leader decides to go for fast clean sweep farmruns. He will pick an extra CW or GWF anytime, anywhere.
So then a wild patch appears.
We've been asking for proper AOE skills. Spamming Atwills ONLY is boring and it deals low damage.
We've been asking for proper CC. It may give us a chance of being useful in party runs.
We've been asking for second Paragon Path for quite a while. We though that since our current one had quite a lot of melee abilities, maybe next one would actually bring the long range shooting to its glory and we will be finally able to outperform CWs/GWFs - if not in terms of CC/Utility, then at least in sheer damage.
We got owned.
Not only devs did not heed a single one of our cries, they actually made everything vice versa.
The only skill we had to deal AOE damage with? Nerfed even further by -25%.
The fancy PP we placed our hopes upon? Ended up being PURE BULLSHIFT.
Instead of reliable long-range sniper PP or maybe dedicated melee PP, we got a steaming pile of "content".
A semi-support.
That has no use at all.
So lets take a look at what did they get us?
A skill that drops a "healthpack" after target is killed, which may be used to heal party and recharge some Action points.
Now read again. Drops a healthpack. After target is killed. When combat is over.
Do you have any desperate need to "heal" your party for miserable amount after boss is dead? Hell, do you even need that after some miserable trashpack is dead?
No.
And on top of that it only applies to a single target at once. Flock me sideways. Blizzard-class game design.
Then it comes to a skill that increases damage taken by a target for some certain amount every time target gets hit. Sounds nice? Sounds sweet? You're already calculating the profit you'd get for debuffing Valindra with this buff to allow your party to deal immense damage?
Well... "think again". For it deals whimsical damage that does not even justify having the joke of a "support HR" in your party. Even CW will outdamage him on a single target. Overall party DPS will go down a whoppin' lot if you get one.
And as if that wouldn't be enough by itself, they also "invented" an inner cooldown for that bonus damage proc. So it doesn't matter if there are lots of people hitting the boss very fast, damage bonus will be as low as it would be for HR alone poking that HP bar.
Yay 4 the awesome skeel.
Then there is an awesome Daily power that might actually draw some attention. Daily power that increases guard and stamina recovery when other players are hitting this debuffed target. Nice? Awesome?
Think again.
Costs 100% AP (can be cut down to 75%, but you'll have to waste a lot of talent points).
Deals unimpressive damage to a single target. Way less than Seismic shot deals to multiple enemies.
Repositions you in the middle of a boss. Yes, that means that you'll get instagibbed by the next PBAOE. Fun™.
Bonus effects are... yeah, good guess. Whimsical. Nobody will actually notice those if they won't pay dedicated attention.
So here's the "brand new awesome glorious Paragon Path". It is, in fact, a way to dump 600 ZEN for two respecs.
And then some awesome buffs occur! "We just buffed your Electric shot, be grateful and GTFO!" they said.
Many thanks.
ES still deals less damage than Split shot does. That's right, less than nerfed Split shot does.
Remind me what did CWs and GWFs get?
Right.
I'm done.
Mi-Ala Starbreeze : HR main. Best PVE HR out there, until someone proves me wrong.
I've threatened Ghostcrawler and got permabanned at Blizzard forums.
I went mad at PL "community" in SWTOR and got permabanned.
Believe me, you don't want to see the tickets I used to sent to CCP. I got permabanned from EVE.
I was infuriated by the amount of autists in League of Legends and got permabanned. Twice.
Cryptic, here I go.
Lo and behold.
I've threatened Ghostcrawler and got permabanned at Blizzard forums.
I went mad at PL "community" in SWTOR and got permabanned.
Believe me, you don't want to see the tickets I used to sent to CCP. I got permabanned from EVE.
I was infuriated by the amount of autists in League of Legends and got permabanned. Twice.
Cryptic, here I go.
Lo and behold.
Post edited by ontisz on
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Comments
Electric shot? Cold Steel Hurricane? LOL...
I'm actually finding careful attack to be pretty sweet with greater plague fire, especially on rogues.
There's nothing good in SW PP, but this fancy new PP is even worse. Of course you can be happy with your little sandbox Domination fun, but this game has no PVP. And PVE-wise HRs weren't decent even prior to this nerf-patch.
I've threatened Ghostcrawler and got permabanned at Blizzard forums.
I went mad at PL "community" in SWTOR and got permabanned.
Believe me, you don't want to see the tickets I used to sent to CCP. I got permabanned from EVE.
I was infuriated by the amount of autists in League of Legends and got permabanned. Twice.
Cryptic, here I go.
Lo and behold.
Not sure where the bust on the game came from, but Pathfinder can't be worse than nothing, which is what Stormwarden offers now.
I'm finding careful attack to be pretty decent. And pathfinder's action isn't too bad.
PVE I agree, HR's were in a bad place and now it's worse. I have a CW for PVE though.
I've threatened Ghostcrawler and got permabanned at Blizzard forums.
I went mad at PL "community" in SWTOR and got permabanned.
Believe me, you don't want to see the tickets I used to sent to CCP. I got permabanned from EVE.
I was infuriated by the amount of autists in League of Legends and got permabanned. Twice.
Cryptic, here I go.
Lo and behold.
Is it 'harder' game play than CW or GWF for less reward? Yes.
It was absolutely already known to everyone that CW was going to be the king of this patch since they were once again 'balance free' this patch. GWF probably got a bump in effectiveness, for some reason, but so far post-patch the Pathfinder seems to be doing pretty well.
Thing is, people are going to need to actually learn how to use Aspect of the Serpent to it's full effect now. Before it was easier to ignore this class skill, but Pathfinder's simply can't if they're DPS minded.
Mod 4 is coming out in August. Already announced and official.
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
I actually enjoyed reading this and laughed quite a bit, thank you and I feel your pain.
At the end I lose from one strong Pathfinder HR in Domination in DPS battle on one tower and he kill me so this new path have very nice defensive side. Which one is strange and I think now how to grab more dps...
Domination, Domination, Domination, Domination, Domination, Domination, Domination, Domination.
Will you sandbox lovers please just stop? Please?
Pathfinder is not a viable party healer. He can not qualify as a healer slot in queue. He can not keep party alive on most bossfights unless overgeared by 15k GS. This path is not viable.
And the issue of unjust nerfs still remains. Hunters are of no use at all now. We cannot clear trash half as fast as GWFs/CWs can, we cannot CC and/or drag mobs together. And the HAMSTER "you cannot cast aimed shot while being damaged, even by some 5 damage DoT" concept is just the icing on a cake.
I've threatened Ghostcrawler and got permabanned at Blizzard forums.
I went mad at PL "community" in SWTOR and got permabanned.
Believe me, you don't want to see the tickets I used to sent to CCP. I got permabanned from EVE.
I was infuriated by the amount of autists in League of Legends and got permabanned. Twice.
Cryptic, here I go.
Lo and behold.
The only good thing in pve is that a tough HR stays alive, and stops a boss refilling his hp while the dead players run back to the fray from the nearest campfire. Or for dropping ROA on a sing.
This, ladies, is a fine example of a 9kGS "Pro™". He did not set a foot in VT or MC, he has no idea that bosses that are worth killing do >not< allow corpseruns. Yet, he dares to make bold statements.
Typical.
And this one is a so-called "armchair elitist".
He does not run dungeons, but he deems himself worthy of commenting upon class performance. He does not have every class properly geared and properly played, but he is smug enough to throw certain judgements.
I used to outdamage every single DD-class competitor ever since I got to lvl60 and grabbed some T2-class gear from AH. Every Single Freaking One, including dozens of CWs and GWFs. But when I got to somewhat challenging dungeon such as VT, I found myself at rank2 or sometimes even rank3 in DPS charts. Reason is simple, endgame dungeons require lots of AOE killing, in which CWs are absolutely dominant. Back when I was at 16k GS I got outdamaged by a 13.5k GS CW from my guild, simply because CWs can do three times my damage as AOE in short burst duration. HRs cannot. Every single skill HRs have lacks either versatility or proper damage. CWs though can simply wipe out stuff with just two skills and be happy with that.
Before the mentioned above Derps™ come back to TL : DR my post, here's a short quote:
CWs have AOE slows, AOE "deathgrips" and AOE "deathgrip" Daily that recharges ridiculously fast. Combined with immense DPS frontal cylinder AOE that allows them to deal extremely high damage in extremely short duration.
GWFs have several AOE skills that don't deal as much damage. But GWFs never die from occasional aggro pulls, they're actually enjoying it as they go /Avatar mode faster and therefore throw even more damage in wide spread. Combined with CW "deathgrips", GWF can sometimes outdps the former, especially given the P.V.
HRs, though, have no AOE CC, have no "deathgrips", have no proper AOE damaging skills. The only one decent damaging skill was Split shot, which is an "atwill", hence it deals lower damage than encounter could. The only "ground-target" AOE we have is Rain of arrows which has radius less than five inches. It's hard to hit a SINGLE target with it, much less a bunch of mobs sitting on a tank. The only option is to throw out Split the sky and pray for mobs to hit your tank hard and fast.
Melee build is even worse. It probably could compete with Archery before devs "fixed" our "bugs" with cooldown rewind concept, but now its just dead. Over, period, nodiscuss.
So tell me again about how its "about BAD PLAYERS not bad class"©
I've threatened Ghostcrawler and got permabanned at Blizzard forums.
I went mad at PL "community" in SWTOR and got permabanned.
Believe me, you don't want to see the tickets I used to sent to CCP. I got permabanned from EVE.
I was infuriated by the amount of autists in League of Legends and got permabanned. Twice.
Cryptic, here I go.
Lo and behold.
HR to become next CW or better GWF ?
Why ? Reason ?
HR is between single and aoe dmg, HR is not best but it is second in both and this is HR's power. HR is hybrid and always will be.
HR's CC is Disruptive shot and yes it is useful in PVE.
Hindering Strike is not bad CC too for PVE ofc not as CW's one but it is not needed.
And in the end if HR become so much bad as class (never-mind reason) Cryptic have tools to see this and to change something. When I go in PE or IWD I see enough HR's to run around - when this goes bad Cryptic will do changes. But to said that HR is just PVP class is not true.
And to hit single target with RoA is so easy ... just press CTRL. To said me that is hard to use RoA in PVE on mobs is just funny. I use it in PVP where ppl move so much more. Please do not talk me what you cannot do I do not care much.
All I can really say is that in testing both Stormwarden and Pathfinder, as both Archery and Combat, I found that the damage they did was comparable to other AoE DPS classes such as CW and GWF. It is more demanding to deal similar damage and certainly can't carry a team as easily (if at all) compared to GWF or CW. That's really the only difference I could find. (Just to be frank, I also tested them both as Nature and hated it.)
CW have crowd control as their 'secondary' role, GWF have survivability, and HR's have...deaggro. As an example, a hunter ranger is more than capable of standing at maximum range and dealing their sniping damage to the last boss in ToS without pulling any Blademasters. I know this because I do it every time I run that particular dungeon; yet somehow I see zero other HR who can manage the same feat. In that very same fight, I often times pull #1 in damage and pump out high single target and high AoE damage. *shrugs*
It's a rare day when a HR joins the group and manages to play the class even halfway close to what I know it's capable of. This is why, personally, I think it's a player issue and not the class. It's a hard class to play, much harder than CW, for about the same return in damage. So no, a lot of people aren't going to like it. A lot of people can't seem to play it either.
Why do people...
I do not ask for HRs to be OP so that people would drool over HRs as they do now for CWs. I merely want my class to be VIABLE. Decent. Worth picking in some tryhard dungeon. That about does it. Why do people always overemphasize everything?
Ah.
Well, that makes sense now. I am dealing with a demi-god here, the one who predicts dungeon enemies' movements and drags them all to the RoA AOE radius with his bare thoughts. /Applaud. Lo and behold, puny beings.
I honestly had to force myself to read any further after this one.
Given the HAMSTER aggro system in this game that seems to really hate fast-attacking classes (as if every single attack has some static threat value as a bonus, hence faster aggro pull for fast-hitters), talking about HRs as the class with best threat management is just... preposterous. Did you make it past 12k? Honestly?
And even more, its not the aggro thing thats the problem. Taking some hits won't be an issue for me, since I personally can lifesteal-heal myself just fine. Its the positioning problem, as it becomes absolutely impossible to lay Split shots on enemies that run towards you and then start dancing around denying cone AoE positioning.
Do you do anything harder than Pirate den?
I've threatened Ghostcrawler and got permabanned at Blizzard forums.
I went mad at PL "community" in SWTOR and got permabanned.
Believe me, you don't want to see the tickets I used to sent to CCP. I got permabanned from EVE.
I was infuriated by the amount of autists in League of Legends and got permabanned. Twice.
Cryptic, here I go.
Lo and behold.
Well it allows you to keep your 20% damage bonus from Sniper's Aim, for one thing, which translates into 20% more damage on split shot while keeping the add's interested in someone else. I mean, I don't know what to tell you. I find that keeping the add's near maximum range is highly beneficial to overall DPS and survivabily. (As I rarely even get hit at all.)
Also if you aren't Archery spec and are, say, Combat instead perhaps that's why you don't value aggro control since it doesn't necessarily translate into higher damage for such a build.
Split Shot still crits for around 10k or more for me, which is pretty darn good for an At-Will when you think about it.
Ah, so you dont even read others' posts. Figures.
I am well aware of up to 20% damage boost per range to target, thank you very much. What I said is: because of some utterly messed up reason, HRs pull aggro almost instantly upon engaging some AOE pack. Well, at least I do.
I've threatened Ghostcrawler and got permabanned at Blizzard forums.
I went mad at PL "community" in SWTOR and got permabanned.
Believe me, you don't want to see the tickets I used to sent to CCP. I got permabanned from EVE.
I was infuriated by the amount of autists in League of Legends and got permabanned. Twice.
Cryptic, here I go.
Lo and behold.
It's probably because you don't let someone else take alpha and you don't use Forest Ghost/Marauder's as an actual aggro dump. You can fire Split Shot while using Forest Ghost and generate no aggro for any shots you make (Including Rain of Arrows or other encounters.)
Just wait until some add's turn your direction and hit Forest Ghost. You should have time for two fully charged Split Shots over it's duration or some mix of Encounters. Switch to single target for a few seconds as it ends and use Marauder's as needed to shed any other unwanted aggro and to weave in your melee attacks.
It's demanding, I know, but it is what it is. That's the HR: Hardmode Neverwinter DPS. The thing about HR is playing perfectly isn't as rewarding as it should be for it's difficulty in execution. You can derp along as a GWF or CW and it will be easier and just as effective. ( At least in my opinion playing drunk. ^_- )
I'm not trying to attack you, I'm just telling you that it works. HR lose out in damage because they spend most of their time dodging attacks because they failed to control their hate. I see it virtually every time an HR joins a group, and it's utterly unnecessary.
EDIT:
I also found that using /bind lctrl ++HardTargetLock is virtually necessary to hard lock larger add's in the middle of larger spawns as an archer. It made it a lot easier to fully charge Split Shot without worrying about it's main target dying and losing out on a shot as well.
This time I didnt bother reading. Sue me.
Can you see a slight flaw in your statements? Yes, HR can drop some threat via FG. Read again. Drop threat via FG. Via flocking Forest Ghost, a DAILY. So when some derpwizard drops off an AOE Daily, I am forced to use mine to stay alive.
Does that ring any bell?
I've threatened Ghostcrawler and got permabanned at Blizzard forums.
I went mad at PL "community" in SWTOR and got permabanned.
Believe me, you don't want to see the tickets I used to sent to CCP. I got permabanned from EVE.
I was infuriated by the amount of autists in League of Legends and got permabanned. Twice.
Cryptic, here I go.
Lo and behold.
*shrugs* If your AP generation can't keep up then perhaps your gear is the issue. (Also it's dropping all threat, not some. It also has a 30 second CD.) You pretend like no one else is throwing AoE and doesn't generate threat. Perhaps you should buy an owl if you have such horrible issues with it. ^_-
I so sorry but this is not only in this game issue. I saw this in few other games it is maybe script issue or something like that. Fast hitting provide more aggro but if you do full bar Split shot you will do far less agro and same dmg, so all is about cone effect.
indeed a good post and i feel ur pain as well
If you play HR you play it for the same reason as you would play a TR, PvP. HR shines in PvP.
If you wanna pve only roll a GWF or a CW like all the others who jumped the bandwagon
Well, FG doesn't even work. When you go out of hiding, the mobs you aggroed before all come back to you like "oh dear! There you are pal! I totally lost sight of you for a moment!"
Proof? Experience in dungeon. Tried FG to let me off aggro, pot, and return to dps the boss: nope.
Forest Ghost usually works to reduce aggro if you stand still exactly where you have activated it. If you move it usually doesn't.
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
Awesome.
I geared myself up to 18+k GS. I used to outdamage everyone except for some really awesomely geared CWs, even in VT farmruns. I dumped over 40kk AD into this character for the sake of its awesomeness. Then some nice shiny day I log in and get a flocking -25% to my only AOE right to the face. Wham bam, thank you ma'am and I'll give you a call some day.
Some fascinating logics you have there, typical wizard player.
I've threatened Ghostcrawler and got permabanned at Blizzard forums.
I went mad at PL "community" in SWTOR and got permabanned.
Believe me, you don't want to see the tickets I used to sent to CCP. I got permabanned from EVE.
I was infuriated by the amount of autists in League of Legends and got permabanned. Twice.
Cryptic, here I go.
Lo and behold.