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(PVP) Why is sentinel so much better for GWF?
hamletswords
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 1,320 Bounty Hunter
So I can't figure out what makes sentinel the go-to spec for PVP and the one everyone complains about.
Whenever I respec on preview, the capstone doesn't seem to affect my defense stat or percentage at all, and I doubt a 50% better heal on restoring strike would be better than not using IBS.
And the other feats are seriously underwhelming imo. I mean I read a spec recently with it that had the weapon mastery one maxed out and the guy doesn't even slot weapon mastery... I'd rather slot the one where you get 5% more crit on sure strike- at least I'd get some use out of it even if it is not much.
The heal on unstoppable you can get with any spec since it's tier1, so what are you getting with the other traits?
5% more deflect, 15% more damage on marked targets which doesn't happen often in PVP that I notice, and some nebulous "Increases the effectiveness of your defense by 20%" which doesn't show up in stat ratings that I can see.
Obviously there's a reason or everyone wouldn't be complaining about it as such an OP spec, but I can't figure it out.
Compared with my current spec in the destroyer tree, I'd rather get more damage and determination on damage than some defense increase which may or may not even exist. Getting unstoppable more often is a form of defense anyway.
Whenever I respec on preview, the capstone doesn't seem to affect my defense stat or percentage at all, and I doubt a 50% better heal on restoring strike would be better than not using IBS.
And the other feats are seriously underwhelming imo. I mean I read a spec recently with it that had the weapon mastery one maxed out and the guy doesn't even slot weapon mastery... I'd rather slot the one where you get 5% more crit on sure strike- at least I'd get some use out of it even if it is not much.
The heal on unstoppable you can get with any spec since it's tier1, so what are you getting with the other traits?
5% more deflect, 15% more damage on marked targets which doesn't happen often in PVP that I notice, and some nebulous "Increases the effectiveness of your defense by 20%" which doesn't show up in stat ratings that I can see.
Obviously there's a reason or everyone wouldn't be complaining about it as such an OP spec, but I can't figure it out.
Compared with my current spec in the destroyer tree, I'd rather get more damage and determination on damage than some defense increase which may or may not even exist. Getting unstoppable more often is a form of defense anyway.
My Harem: Dawn HR, Erin CW, Piper TR, Zoe GWF
Post edited by hamletswords on
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Also powerfull challenge seems bugged (doesn't work) and battle trample too (seems to negate the plus damage of the passive power).
I hope that the sentinel path can have a rework to have some appeal, now is usefull only for pvp. But i think that with some defense buff (may be +5% DR for every enemy in a radius, this will not affect pvp but pve) and agro generation (100% treat for every skill) can be a valuable choice for pve tanks.
GWF's, GF's, TR's and HR's have high defensive capabilities and decent offensive capabilities, which allow them to dish out some hurt. and this is why they are effective classes for PVP. DC's have immense defensive capabilities but their offense is terribly lacking, conversely CW's have immense offensive capabilities but their defenses are inherently terrible. They also have little effective defensive mechanics which makes them unfit for this current PVP meta. PVP is all about playing defensively nowadays, and players must strive to find the right balance to support their play styles.
TRs decent? You gotta be kidding me...
CW - need to control their target in order to submit offense. Tenacity effects CW more then any class in the game! Not to mention GWF and TR having cc immunity makes them even harder...
Control Wizards need to control, tenacity removes the ability to control effectively and raises control resistance! WOW!
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Anyway. You guys have plenty of Control already. What you need are the tools to contend in PVP which are defensive capabilities. Without these, you simply will remain unfit in PVP. CW's are horrendously underpowered for PVP because of their lack of true defensive mechanics and limited utility mechanics. If I were you I'd ask for buffs instead of asking for nerfs to other classes. I personally am an advocate for CW buffs and have been suggesting buffs for a long time now.
If you wish to retain the play style you guys had back in pre-Shadowmantle, perhaps you shoud ask that CW's get some sort of mechanic that would allow them to Pierce immunities. Something like "Control Spells placed in the Spell Mastery Slot ignore all forms of Control Immunity." That'd be so fun in PVE too since bosses will be CC'd easier.
Off Topic Cat says "Meow"
Essence of Aggression
Hi mate, I am not sure that through the previous answers you could figure out the reasons that make the GWF sentinel so OP in PVP. I will try to be clear as much as I can.
First of all , Sentinels have a huge amount of HP, which can vary between 30K to 35K without the Ioun Stone. Some players can even reach 40K HP. My Sentinel has 21 STR > 19 CON > 19 DEX, and i have 35K HP with Ioun Stone (the green one).
Second, Sentinels have amazing defense stats. A good sentinel has around 45% damage resistance, and 32% deflection possibility with 50% deflection severity. You can get close to these stats wearing FULL TITAN SCALE SET, or SENTINEL GRIM SET (with tenacity). Furthemore, the Sentinel grim set adds an additional 10% resistance to crits, damage, and control.
Third, talents distribution goes all defensive. Use Bravery to increase deflection and speed. Use IBS for damage, Takedown and Shield Slam to control.
Fourth, Sentinels do a lot of damage now thanks to a specific talent in combination with specific weapons enchantments. The name of the talent is "student of the sword", which decreases the enemy defense of 45%. Put on a weapon enchantment like the Greater Plague Fire that gives 45% armor penetration, and you get 90% unmitigated damage. Did I make myself clear? You almost nullify all enemy's defense, and it does not matter if your enemy has either 1k or 6K in his defense stat.
In conclusion, sentinels cannot be killed easily. You can be killed in 3VS1 , but still resist at 2VS1. You also do massive damage (not comparable to the Destroyer), but think that wearing the AVATAR OF WAR SET in VT, pain giver stat achieves 9K.
If you want meet me, I am Dante@damanhur89.
Yea, that would work but making Tenacity effect control which is all CW really have as a defense is the problem! A class with a cc immunity with high tenacity is a killer for CW's as we can't control them enough to get a rotation off and spend our time trying to flee and ultimately die. I do not see Tenacity having a Negative effect on any other class as much as CW.
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
As has been showed, cw needs a higher skill lvl to be played. If you are having problems playing it, is no shame, pick something else.
Out of all three trees, these feats are the best OFFENSIVE feats : Student of the Sword, Deep Gash, Master at Arms
Sentinel has access to ALL 3 of these feats.
Out of all three tress, these feats are the best DEFENSIVE feats : Unstoppable Recovery, Scale Agility, Master at Arms, Sentinel's Aegis
Sentinel has access to ALL of these feats.
From reading your post I would suggest the following :
1. You should keep Weapon Master class feature slotted at all times for PvP if you have Master at Arms. Personally, it never leaves my bar. This feat with 5/5 points will be offering you +5 Armor Class permanently (on average this is about +3-5% Damage Resistance) and 10% Critical Chance/10% Deflect Chance in the heat of battle. To put this +10% into perspective, going from ~1000 Critical Strike points to ~3000 Critical Strike points gives my GWF an additional 9% Critical Strike Chance...so this one feat is doing more for my crit chance than 2000 crit points would. And thats just the crit..
2. You say you are rarely marking targets in PvP? If you are Iron Vanguard you should be using Threatening Rush to make sure that your target is marked whenever possible. If you find this difficult then Battle Trample would be a better option since Trample the Fallen will be in effect almost all the time from proning enemies.
3. As far as your destroyer spec goes, the tree currently doesn't offer anything fantastic in the way of OFFENSE beyond Deep Gash. Destroyer's Purpose is very impractical for gaining Determination in a PvP setting. Further, enemies will likely be avoiding you at all costs while you are Unstoppable, so you will rarely get a chance to capitalize on the +10% Encounter damage from the capstone.
Essentially, Sentinel is superior because the defense/surviavbility that the tree offers you is vastly superior to the defense/survivability that Destroyer/Instigator trees offer. Additionally, the increased offense that Destroyer/Instigator provides you is comparable to the offense that Sentinel tree provides you. So why bother with either of the two squishy trees when your damage will hardly be affected?
Enforce rainbow parties in PvP ---- 10v10 PvP ----
No it is not.
I do miss the shorter cooldown on takedown from destroyer though. Also, definitely get unstoppable less frequently.
That's a different question but I'm also on the fence about it. It would give a ton of defense but I'd lose a lot of crit and some power.
Figured that should be mentioned! :cool:
glad I re-rolled. My HR already eats up GWFs
He's right though.
Defense is the worst stat for PvP. Every class that should be giving you trouble has heaps of armor penetration on their PvE and PvP T2 sets and weapons. You have to stack Defense and Tenacity to ludicrous levels to have much of an impact against that.
Go with Crit and Deflection instead and focus on the Destroyer build and IBS/gash.
Seriously. I don't know why anyone who PvP's regularly would go a defense/hp build over anything featuring deflection. They must not understand how the game system works??