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[suggestion] For the new class for MOD 3 bis
laichin1979
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 50
Well ok so the Guardian Fighter is not new..., but noone remembers him, so he might as well be.
So why have they been forgotten, neglected? I'm trying to give the DEVs the benefit of the doubt, although that is getting harder. As the issues are so big I can't imagine this is not there number 1 prio after mod 3. So let's assume, the Devs have been wondering what to do with the GF, but are stuck. They know it's got big issues, particularly in PVE. Too low damage, not great at tanking, which to be honest isn't even required. So how do we make this class into a useful class again, with its own identity.
Traditionally GFs generate threat to attracked the mobs. OK fine, lets keep that. Tanking as such is not needed in Neverwinter so the GF has to be a dps melee class as well. We already have a stealthy, hard to hit but squishy, single target melee class, the TR, and a less squishy, easier to hit AOE melee class the GWF.
So make the GF something in between sitting duck, but thougher then anything, slow running, but quickish hitting melee class, that attracts its enemies with threat. Quicker and higher dps per hit with at wills and AOE than the GWF (but lower than TR), but a much smaller range to the AOE.
The idea being they do great dps but only to what is near them, and to get the mobs near it needs the threat.
So how to achieve this:
Put the enforced thread on the TAB, no mob cap, but lower damage then now. To make sure it no damage dealer.
- Make Villains menace a much higher damage dealing daily, but smaller range.
- Give Frontline surge higher cap, but smaller range.
- Make Cleave faster and WMS faster but smaller range for the GF then the GWF.
- Replace Enforced threat with another high damage but small range AOE
These are just some ideas, hopefully they get things moving. Because we really need to GF to be sorted out!
I know everyone wants their class to be boosted, but I think all agree the GF needs help. Maybe the Devs need to hear this also from other classes then the GF themselves, so any support is appreciated.
So why have they been forgotten, neglected? I'm trying to give the DEVs the benefit of the doubt, although that is getting harder. As the issues are so big I can't imagine this is not there number 1 prio after mod 3. So let's assume, the Devs have been wondering what to do with the GF, but are stuck. They know it's got big issues, particularly in PVE. Too low damage, not great at tanking, which to be honest isn't even required. So how do we make this class into a useful class again, with its own identity.
Traditionally GFs generate threat to attracked the mobs. OK fine, lets keep that. Tanking as such is not needed in Neverwinter so the GF has to be a dps melee class as well. We already have a stealthy, hard to hit but squishy, single target melee class, the TR, and a less squishy, easier to hit AOE melee class the GWF.
So make the GF something in between sitting duck, but thougher then anything, slow running, but quickish hitting melee class, that attracts its enemies with threat. Quicker and higher dps per hit with at wills and AOE than the GWF (but lower than TR), but a much smaller range to the AOE.
The idea being they do great dps but only to what is near them, and to get the mobs near it needs the threat.
So how to achieve this:
Put the enforced thread on the TAB, no mob cap, but lower damage then now. To make sure it no damage dealer.
- Make Villains menace a much higher damage dealing daily, but smaller range.
- Give Frontline surge higher cap, but smaller range.
- Make Cleave faster and WMS faster but smaller range for the GF then the GWF.
- Replace Enforced threat with another high damage but small range AOE
These are just some ideas, hopefully they get things moving. Because we really need to GF to be sorted out!
I know everyone wants their class to be boosted, but I think all agree the GF needs help. Maybe the Devs need to hear this also from other classes then the GF themselves, so any support is appreciated.
Post edited by laichin1979 on
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Comments
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
This class already exists, and it's called GWF. Might as well merge the two classes completely and call it a day if that's the solution.
What Cryptic needs to do is tweak game mechanics so that the tank role is validated. Introduce content that is challenging enough (yet vulnerable to taunts etc.) that the presence of a good GF will actually make completion faster in some situations. And/or tweak GF skills to improve synergy with other classes.
I don't want to see classes become truly mandatory (not even the DC is a mandatory inclusion, at least for geared groups), but a lot of players who chose GF did so because they wanted to play a certain role, and that should be supported by game design.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
Very well stated and agree wholeheartedly.
yea yea ...the DD rules..the GF tanks...Tanks/??No he cannot tank.
Hold aggro?Hm cannot do that?
Survive longer?No cause all thier armors give bonus to defence(!) instead of HP.Who gets armors with HP bonus??Hm..Let tme think..a found it!The GWF!!!
General speaking now my little assumption is that all the other classes do not want GFs to get major dps boost.That's just hypocricy cause they like to keep them in line.Less competition in pvp less loot competition in PVE.
And i am sure some of the forumers that hastly answered "don't give dps" to GF might have a manga japanese FFIX type of class slotted on their accounts.Talking about GWFs.Which GWF is ,unforunately yes but true,the real antagonist class of GF.GWF is the real tank GWf monopolizes with cw the t.2.5 content.
So GFs must abide to the "dogma" and "theory" that must tank.Let's take that "dogma" and see if the other classes of NW follow it.
CONTROL Wizzard:He is meant to control.Does he control?Yes .Also he is n1 DPS.Where is the theory in this?Yet none GF went to the forums to say 'CWs must stick to their control role and get a dps nerf".Yet some forumers come here and tell us what to do.
GWF:The archetype of a barbarian.A 2 handed armed offensive class with minimum protection.Eh?Minimum protection??They have 40%DR and with unstoppable they go as high as 90%!!!!Where is the DD theory in that?
Yet the GWfs come here and tell us "don't ask for dps increase you are fine'
What they simply think and cannot say is "Hey suckers we know you suck big time.However that is good for us cause we monopolie CN/VT/MC.We do not want antagonists neither in PVE nor in PVP.But we cannot deny that outright.Let's throw some drama and theory about DD dogma and tankiness and other generalities to obscure truth with liethful dust"
Tr:The rogue.The rogue is a lightly armoured thief that uses stealth sometimes and hides in shadows.From there he does devastating strikes.However he is very sqishy.
Reality check:NW rogue.Stealth all the time.ITC:6 seconds of complete dmg immunity.At that time goes to full melee face to face with armoured plate swordmen (GFs) and annihilate them with his bugged dailies.Where is the doctrine orthodoxy here?Nowhere to be found.
HR:The lone survivor ranger of DD uses lore and ranged attacks from afar.
NW reality check:Stealth ,most devastating attack at willin the game ,thorn ward etc....
^^^^^
As you see dear fellow GFs the guys that tell you to stick to the "tankiness" (kitting) dogma are the guys whom thier classes have so much relationship with DD and follow the "dogma" ,as a **** sapiens with the mountain gorilla.
As said in another posts nothing surprisingly here.
General speaking this is a highly competitive MMO game.thre are 6 classes highly antagonizing for dungeon loots and roles in gameplay.
GF is out of competition and most classes simply straight and plainly want him to stay this way.Hypocricy at its best.
Nothing noble here nor love for DD spirit and roles.Just plain greed .
These.
game design cannot change.Not one to a million.So asking the game design to changes is asking GF to stay useless.
With the current design the rule of a GF with out a major dps boost is kitting like benny hill ....
And about about roles in DD GF is probably with barbarian the most devastating warrior class.Not a kite running clown for FH/SP runs.:(
I'm not personally against GFs doing more damage in PvE, but increasing their damage doesn't solve the essential problem. The game doesn't need more DPS; it needs roles to be better fleshed out and to be more attractive.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
Also your long rant didn't make any sense. CWs do control, rogues are squishy (hit one while he's not using ITC.. why do you stand toe to toe with him during those 6 seconds?) ... etc.
The problem is that GF's don't tank. no one tanks here they just kite, and GFs have no dash ability making them less effective at kiting than other classes.
Edit: also.. how is a rogue's daily bugged?
"Basically that.. theres more than enough DPS classes,"
You mean the ones you play?So what is the problem to add one more?And before you go into an obscure theory rant about roles and lore read my above post about how much DD lore a CW or a GWF have:NONE
NW is an action MMO that in order to beat it you need control and dps.If a class does not have these traits is useless.GFs luck both.
"if you turn GF into another DPS class not only does it loose its individuality but so do the other classes."
Well yes you have a point.GFs now have the extreme indivinduality to be the less desirable class.Why to spoil it hah?
Why to buff them and be a danger again for GWFs/TRs as were in early beta?Let's help the GFs to keep their "individuality" of being the losers of the game.Pff.And do T1 charity dungeon delves cause none takes them.Nice indivinduality there.
Think of it;I 'll pass.
"Also your long rant didn't make any sense. CWs do control, rogues are squishy (hit one while he's not using ITC.. why do you stand toe to toe with him during those 6 seconds?) ... etc."
You did not understand anything.I said that CW control (as should be) but also are N1 dps.Do you find that normal/If you do please read a thing or two about DD lore before you accuse people about rant etc.Thanks.
Rogues are squishy?
Squishy?
Did you said squishy???
obviously you did not fall into any of the 32k hp rogues with 30% DR ,35% deflect plus the ITC 6 seconds of complete damage immunity that pops up every 25-30 secs..If that's squishy for you then ok.
Why i stand toe to toe with him?You are right .Man i did not think about it.When he stabs me on the node with his bilethorns,i should turn my back on him to offer 25% cA and die instantly.
And before some smart comes here and say the usual nonsense "you should not fight with the tr on the node",well when the score is 920-880 you must challenge the node from the perma.
Go to pvp sometimes ,all teams have permas 1 or 2 in every team.In a limited battle ground with 5vs5 and 3 nodes at least sometimes you must face him.And sometimes even if you avoid him,especially if you run away he ll attack first.
Attack first?CA and 90% probability for crit.Nice start
"Edit: also.. how is a rogue's daily bugged?"
http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Shocking_Execution
Bugged .it deals full damage even sometimes at 100% health and also ignores tenacity.And steel defence SM GF trait at least.
If from now on the new dungeons they make actually need a tank, things would change dramatically for GF's, that's all I hope for.