Control Wizard PvP Video, and my Opinion about Tenacity

donblacksheep

Hi there.

Currently on our forums, there is at least 5 negative threads about control wizards on the first 2 pages, so many people complaining about how "useless and underpowered" CW is with tenacity, that is a big impact to our control spells.

Indeed, tenacity made things somehow harder for us, as CW's, so much CC resist, but I see CW's on the same spot as they always were, you just have do adapt to the way the game is right now. Different setups, different playstyle, small adjusts, and that's okay, that's how MMO's works.

I know some CW's that are doing it on the right way, and killing everyone same as it used to be before the Tenacity, it actualy made it better for us in some points, because we are not soooo squishy like we used to be.

I made a video with the build that i'm running, which I believe is the most -CONTROL WIZARD- build, it is what I enjoy the most, although it is probably the hardest build to use in the game of all classes, but theres also the renegade debuff build that Meldanan and Inna are running, that is great as well (personal preference here)



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5bI7co85hw&feature=youtu.be



Coments, ideas, opinions, critics, always welcome, and I hope that you enjoy the video.

donblacksheep

Thanks to @melodywhr for approving my video so I could share it on the forums.

spongebob56

My CW does pretty good against people who don't know how to play PvP, have a significantly lower GS, not a halfling, not a GWF, and not a perma stealth TR. I would probably do slightly better if I respecced and purposely built my CW just for PvP. But why do that?

keltz0r

Cool vid dude! As always thanks to the best mod ever melodywhr for approving this video and always being so fair! )))))))))))

aulduron

I have a CW, GWF (Destroyer), TR and DC. I have 0 tenacity between them. Since the change, I fare worse on all of them except the CW. I do better with him now, though that might be because of better gear, or more skill. I still do pretrty bad though once someone decides they want me dead.

williep30

donblacksheep wrote: »

Hi there.

Currently on our forums, there is at least 5 negative threads about control wizards on the first 2 pages, so many people complaining about how "useless and underpowered" CW is with tenacity, that is a big impact to our control spells.

Indeed, tenacity made things somehow harder for us, as CW's, so much CC resist, but I see CW's on the same spot as they always were, you just have do adapt to the way the game is right now. Different setups, different playstyle, small adjusts, and that's okay, that's how MMO's works.

I know some CW's that are doing it on the right way, and killing everyone same as it used to be before the Tenacity, it actualy made it better for us in some points, because we are not soooo squishy like we used to be.

I made a video with the build that i'm running, which I believe is the most -CONTROL WIZARD- build, it is what I enjoy the most, although it is probably the hardest build to use in the game of all classes, but theres also the renegade debuff build that Meldanan and Inna are running, that is great as well (personal preference here)



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5bI7co85hw&feature=youtu.be



Coments, ideas, opinions, critics, always welcome, and I hope that you enjoy the video.

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Finally someone who will also show people that cw's are not as useless and crappy as others are saying. My god, I constantly say that the changes hurt, but cw's aren't as horrible as others are advertising.

Impressive video, by the way.

solomidforce

donblacksheep, Thank You for posting this video up, very informative and helpful for us CWs who are trying to improve our PvP gameplay. I have a question, were you running a Thaum Build w/ High Vizier's Set? or is there a more efficient set out there. Sorry, I'm still trying to figure out which set is most efficient for PvPing.

reiwulf

Wow, I'm glad I don't remember battling you before XD
Very nice vid!

chrcore

I stopped watching after you pummeled a HR 1vs1 TWICE with a shard.

Only distracted opponents or noobs get hit with a shard on tab or otherwise.

donblacksheep

@williep30
Thanks man, glad that you liked, and yea i feel the same, too many negative stuff about cws around, so i tried to do something cool.

@solomidforce
I am Opressor and I use the profound thaum set, high vizier was good before tenacity.

@reiwulf
thanks, glad that you liked

@chrcore
I challenge you for 1v1 in game and I will show you that you are a **** as well if that's what you think.
You should not post stuff that you do not know, Icy rays + Entangling + insta drop shard = opponent CAN'T react, or even worse if I Ice Knife them before I roll the shard again, triple prone.

chrcore

@chrcore
I challenge you for 1v1 in game and I will show you that you are a **** as well if that's what you think.
You should not post stuff that you do not know, Icy rays + Entangling + insta drop shard = opponent CAN'T react, or even worse if I Ice Knife them before I roll the shard again, triple prone.[/QUOTE]

Not going to happen if you are going up against a HR that knows what they are doing. I take shard off whenever I go up against folks that know what they are doing. Entangling? It lasts less that a 10th of a second against properly geared folks.

donblacksheep

I see that you don't want to do it in-game, right?
So please, stop spamming on my thread, thanks.

proneification

Those are NOT good PvPers... You're doing the CW thing OK, but you're pretty much doing it because you're in a good Enemy Team. If you're to be put against CS, you gonna die 40+ times. There's proof on Jerkface's stream.
Or even worse, end up like keltz0r's CW, who stated "I feel so useless" before ending up 0:20.

There are limitations to the CW. Even you know it.

If you want to prove the CW is fine, kill Nightwing 1vs1. Kill Steamroller 1vs1.

And I agree that a good HR will not let you have meatball. Again, there's lots of proof on Youtube or Twitch where you say yourself that you cannot do anything because of constricting arrow.

PS: I hope you don't want to challenge me to 1vs1 too, just because I dared question your methodology for proving the CW is fine (which it is, on a certain support context).

chrcore

donblacksheep wrote: »

I see that you don't want to do it in-game, right?
So please, stop spamming on my thread, thanks.

I don't play an HR so it's moot. As others have pointed out, that only works against folks that don't know what they are doing. Look at the streams from the top PVP'ers. At this point they have pretty much stopped playing CW's post tenacity patch.

donblacksheep

I am not keltz0r's CW.

And go ask CS people how I did on our last premade where they had 2 HR's, far as I remember they even PM'd me saying "wow nice job with those shards"

So you're saying CW is a bad class because there will be 5-6 players on the entire server that you have no chance to beat? Nice point of view there.
You shouldve learn to read before posting, as I said CW is at the same place as always, I have videos where Alt (probably the best cw on the game) died 67 times on a premade BEFORE tenacity, so what?
Control wizard job is not 1v1'ing in case you have no knowledge about the game mechanics.
You will die when people want you to die, no matter what, but it does not mean that the class is bad, it was always like that.

And about those 2 that you said, if I want to beat them 1v1 you know what I do? Esc -> Switch character -> double click my TR.

The point here is not CW IS THE BEST 1V1 CLASS OF THE GAME!!!!!!!!!!!111, its simply :"No CW is not worthless, it is the way it always was".

proneification

donblacksheep wrote: »

I am not keltz0r's CW.

The point here is not CW IS THE BEST 1V1 CLASS OF THE GAME!!!!!!!!!!!111, its simply :"No CW is not worthless, it is the way it always was".

Misunderstanding then, my excuses

- CW not worthless in PvP if played as support, especially in a team comp that is able to pretty much let you do support
- CW not a 1vs1 class
- CW dies a lot just as ever, people know you die fastest and focus you
- HR has more DPS, more CC and is more useful

And... yeah.

I think keltz0r is a great CW by the way. But, as I said, there are limitations.

Keep it going, for what a CW can do, you're doing great, thanks for the video.

diogene0

I would certainly not recommend this rotation for a non oppressor CW.

I play a fire thaum CW and in pvp it's fine, even against GWFs (if we consider surviving until someone helps is doing fine). I have more difficulties against rangers.

donblacksheep

Thaum is just fine, actually better than oppressor for some stuff.
It's personal preference, some more damage vs some more cc.

luthandrose

Over all, I liked your video. However, I don't think you do high level PvP justice by showing how a skilled CW can stomp pugs in Domination matches. I did see a few PvP guilds in your video, which I thought did lend some credibility to what you were showing. However, over all, you were still stomping pugs. I would like to see how you perform in a premade situation, which is what everyone hopes to achieve and where class viability comes into play.

To your point though, CW can have a place in premade PvP matches. You have to play them well and learn when to use Shard and when to use other encounters. I think the CW has great flexibility and utility in PvP if used correctly.

By the way, nice touch toward the end of your video with the taunt! I thought it was very creative.

degraafination

Meatball is a great CW. I'm a big fan of encouraging players to play what they love, and if you love playing your CW, by all means, go ahead. It is by far the toughest class and spec to play at the moment. Much respect for those who choose the class and enjoy it.

rashylewizz

First of all good video showing all the right strategies a CW should do. I do the same thing and this is a really nice educational video for new players who want to PVP with a CW.


Now with that said, you have been playing all these matches with your Enemy Team premade group. I'm sorry but the odds where already stacked in your favor. You were merely playing support on . Also, some of your opponents were pretty dumb...just standing there while you cast shard, they still didn't notice. Other than that no-name GWF from EOA, you've been facing scrubs and most likely PUG groups. I rarely see perfect soulforge enchantment on your opponents. They could be wearing perfect barkshield, but most likely are undergeared scrubs.

Good video, very skilled CW I have to say, great tactics used. Unfortunately, still does not make a good enough argument.

How about you face Svet from synergy or Gertylog from synergy or Jerkface from enemy team or NightWingzx from Chocolate shoppe in a 1v1 match?

I believe that will actually provide a good clear evidence that elite fully geared CW can be competitive with other elite classes.

Or here is a better idea, Enemy Team' best vs Synergy's best or EOA's best or Chocolate Shoppe's best.
Stream it from your POV and we shall have a video that isn't riddled with an overgeared CW and his imbalanced team pummeling through newbies and pugs

iliveforpvp

Jesus Christ. My guild and I fought EoA and Synergy several times with me on my CW. Did fine, helped a lot, and have an excellent KD... Thanks for the vid Sheep bad *** rotation with the Oppessor spec.

Oh! And CWs are not meant for 1v1s. You will lose most of them. It's a support class. No one else can do that much CC and debuff. It helps your team a lot. If you want to 1v1, roll a TR or a GWF. CWs are support, play it that way.

diogene0

iliveforpvp wrote: »

Oh! And CWs are not meant for 1v1s. You will lose most of them. It's a support class. No one else can do that much CC and debuff. It helps your team a lot. If you want to 1v1, roll a TR or a GWF. CWs are support, play it that way.

Yes something like this, and when in pugs, CWs playing smart will most likely get ignored and will have time to nuke a couple of waves before the red team even notices that yes, the wizard isn't derping throwing magic missile as if it was the only available spell. Oppressors may bring some nice control (especially via chill), thaums will bring a lot of debuffs (conduit and ray are on all good thaum CWs i know in pvp), and renegade may bring some utility, depending on what encounters they chose but it's not really a good pvp choice currently.

The CW is fine but it seems that most people have issues playing their CWs in pvp. That's why I think giving chill some love wouldn't change too much the balance in pvp while giving some 1 vs 1 options when you can't count on someone else in your team for extended period of time.

degraafination

And just an FYI that GWF has been kicked from EOA. No longer a member.

donblacksheep

All the videos were against premades, not even a single pug match, did you know the game has more than 2 guilds?
I did it all in a single day of pvp, so did not had an opportunity to find every single guild/player on the game.
Some people here really got difficulty to read or interpret texts i guess.

I already made the point clear, I'm saying that control wizard class is at the same spot as it always used to be, it is not worse or better than before tenacity, there is no reason for people to be QQ'ing so much about it, tenacity did not made the class "worthless, or weaker", just changed a little bit the playstyle.

CW was always the weakest class of all to play 1v1, it was never able to beat a TR/GWF/HR in a 1v1 situation, and now even the top GF's has a great advantage in a 1v1 against shard build CW. (ok maybe every 10 games you couldve get lucky 1 time and kill the GWF/TR/HR), I can kill any CW on the game without never getting below 85% life on my TR, but it does not mean there is something wrong right now with the class, it is simply as it always used to be.

Of course I can premade any of these guilds that you mentioned, anytime, but the truth is I wouldnt be playing my alt CW for a "best vs best", i wouldve play my main that as you probably know is TR.


People just have to deal with the fact that CW is a "support class", never was, or will be a "point holder", or beat an elite player from another class 1v1.
Yea HR can do everything that a CW can do, and better, and even more utility than a CW, we all know that, but it does not mean that you should quit playing what you like, or that CW is a bad class now, once again, CW is at the same spot as it always used to be.

rashylewizz

iliveforpvp wrote: »

Oh! And CWs are not meant for 1v1s. You will lose most of them. It's a support class.

Then make 20v20 PVP the staple for your argument to be valid

degraafination wrote: »

And just an FYI that GWF has been kicked from EOA. No longer a member.

I hope it isn't because of this video....or is it

proneification

This topic made me play my CW again today... did 4 matches, lost 2, because I had to contest nodes, since nobody else was there. Forgot how bad it feels compared to my GWF and TR to get utterly HAMSTER and gangbanged by some rank 10 GWF/HR/TR/GF whatever. Sure, I didn't wanted to be anywhere near them, but the point was red, so I have to step on it... and die. No unstoppable, no stealth, no ITC, nothing lol. Just 3 dodges and whatever Severe Reaction/boon added. A few times I had a DC come to save me, and man it took forever to to kill those 40K+ HP GWFs, and just like I always do, they ran for pot when near dead, and I couldn't even follow cause I had to stay and cap, and the GWF returned full HP. Not a chance doing it on the CW.

Then I put together a full premade, and suddenly my CW was OP and had 20 kills and 1 death or so.

Sadly, it's back to the dust bin with it. I kinda like to hold my own against any player I meet. Playing a CW whenever the team is slightly underpowered is not OK if the enemies are decent. Playing a TR I can run around forever and execute people one by one. Playing my GWF I can prone people for long enough to land devastating IBSs that almost kills them and troll entire pug teams.

CW is very tempting to play, but for now, it won't do. For others support might just do, but for me, not really. I like to feel powerful.

rashylewizz

donblacksheep wrote: »

All the videos were against premades, not even a single pug match, did you know the game has more than 2 guilds?
I did it all in a single day of pvp, so did not had an opportunity to find every single guild/player on the game.
Some people here really got difficulty to read or interpret texts i guess.

I already made the point clear, I'm saying that control wizard class is at the same spot as it always used to be, it is not worse or better than before tenacity, there is no reason for people to be QQ'ing so much about it, tenacity did not made the class "worthless, or weaker", just changed a little bit the playstyle.

CW was always the weakest class of all to play 1v1, it was never able to beat a TR/GWF/HR in a 1v1 situation, and now even the top GF's has a great advantage in a 1v1 against shard build CW. (ok maybe every 10 games you couldve get lucky 1 time and kill the GWF/TR/HR), I can kill any CW on the game without never getting below 85% life on my TR, but it does not mean there is something wrong right now with the class, it is simply as it always used to be.

Of course I can premade any of these guilds that you mentioned, anytime, but the truth is I wouldnt be playing my alt CW for a "best vs best", i wouldve play my main that as you probably know is TR.


People just have to deal with the fact that CW is a "support class", never was, or will be a "point holder", or beat an elite player from another class 1v1.
Yea HR can do everything that a CW can do, and better, and even more utility than a CW, we all know that, but it does not mean that you should quit playing what you like, or that CW is a bad class now, once again, CW is at the same spot as it always used to be.

If 5 newbies from the same guild were to form a party, I guess we'd have to call them a premade so you got me on a technicality there.

And now you say "people have to deal with CW as a support class". While I do not agree since we have 5v5 PVP not 20v20, at least you are now consistent and that viewpoint fits why you feel that CW are at a right place.

Also, at least you've admitted that CW is the weakest class and that you would bring a TR if it were a serious match.

iliveforpvp

rashylewizz wrote: »

Then make 20v20 PVP the staple for your argument to be valid

If you play with a decent team, 5v5 is a good enough example...

donblacksheep

Nah I can play my CW for any premade that you want, i'm just saying that it would not be "best vs best".

I hardly doubt that EOA or synergy would premade us, they never do, so I will check with CS when i log on the game later/tomorrow.

rashylewizz

iliveforpvp wrote: »

If you play with a decent team, 5v5 is a good enough example...

Overgeared PVP team vs **** teams such as most of the ones on the video?

Like I said, go make your premade, go face Synergy's best, EOA's best, Chocolate Shoppe's best or Enemy Team's best.

Play your CW and stream the video.