Yah I'm kind of at a loss for words. I have a multitude of some of the best players in this game as friends and not one of them is enjoying the new system.
I did a large amount of PvP today with three of my favorite characters..GWF, TR and HR. I spose out of maybe 50 or so matches I think I only lost maybe 3 or 4. Not one of those matches did I actually have fun in. Everything feels so clunky and slow to me now, and the more I won, the longer my Q times got.(just as I, and many others predicted).
I also don't "feel" like anything is consistent. Playing my GWF I think my highest hit on someone was 10k. I fought a CW on point for 4 minutes in one of my first couple matches. This particular CW had no Tenacity, so just the straight 10%, adding in the factor that I was rubberbanding all over the place, using LS was literally repelling me backwards its so bugged(not the path ability), and I think I only ever hit him for 2k. This is with a perfect vorpal, 33%crit, and 27%ArP. I switched to GPF during this ridiculous fight and still same thing. Yet, when I logged my HR for his first couple matches, other GWF's with terrible gear were hitting him for 10k+. Numbers just don't add up....
I played with my normal gear first..then switched to some tenacity gear..with Tenacity at 784 currently(some crappy pvp gear), I literally noticed no difference, in the damage my GWF was taking with, or without it.
Now, with well over 30 matches played on my GWF, with a w/l of atleast 90%, when I Q solo. I get put with people in terrible gear, who fight off points, and stay fighting 1 single gwf the entire match..heh. While I am stuck fighting 4 perfect geared characters. I really don't get it
I'm afraid this was the final straw for me. PvP is so boring now, that I cant even stomach to do more matches to "see if the ELO starts working better", like some have said.
I played with my normal gear first..then switched to some tenacity gear..with Tenacity at 784 currently(some crappy pvp gear), I literally noticed no difference, in the damage my GWF was taking with, or without it.
Yeap, I'm still getting hit by 12k Icy Rays and Split Shots (12k mitigated from 13k, my brain exploded when I saw this).
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
Munkey and I have played together for awhile now. I've played NW since day one. It just keeps going downhill. Everything he said in the OP is essentially everything that every true player knows needs to be done to this game, but will not. The devs lost in a match against us, full-ranked by the way, for a reason, and that was during their "testing" of these new "fixes". They simply don't know what they're doing. Until they figure it out, I'm done with this. I can't believe I got to this point, but I'm done with this.
I'm afraid this was the final straw for me. PvP is so boring now, that I cant even stomach to do more matches to "see if the ELO starts working better", like some have said.
As I said to you before, and as we discussed a few times in TS. It WON'T get better. If you attach this kind of ranking system for PvP to a game with a generally static player base, queue times WILL be longer when you're ranked higher. There's no way around it, expect to extend the ranking and have you take whoever's under you, which will lead to the same complaining as before. There's only so many times I can hear Essence of Cash, Essence of Swipe, Essence of Credit Card, etc. Learn how to play so the devs stop giving in to your whines and ruining the entire frikken game.
I agree with this...can't quite put my finger on what it is, however. The feel is just different.
It's your perception and it IS different, just that it doesn't make it worse.
If you're flying a fighter jet and then you drive a car at 200 km/h after that you'll still feel like going slow.
Playing my GWF I think my highest hit on someone was 10k
Which is 30-40% of someone's HP, how much do you think you should be able to hit in your utopian game?
You know, that guy is right, i can't see someone playing pvp in mmos for 15 years and then finding neverwinter a great experience.
I'm afraid this was the final straw for me. PvP is so boring now
Why is it boring? because people can fight back? because you can't kill them before they get up from the ground?
I think the first thing on that list you made should be counter-play which is one fact you're oblivious about and you think a game is very enjoyable without it.
Learn how to play so the devs stop giving in to your whines and ruining the entire frikken game.
I didn't know how you and your friend's ego both online in the same time didn't crush the server but this is the first attempt this game had of making real PVP. If you think the game is ruined because now your opponent can actually cast a spell then i don't know where your experience comes from really cause atm there is no game that allows what you were able to do in neverwinter pre-patch.
There are many things the devs don't understand, copy/pasted some models without understanding the thought behind them but improving counter-play isn't something i can criticize for.
You missed the part where i don't share your delusions and i don't mind that you think you're the greatest player in the world but you clearly have no clue about game design. There are some essential elements which you don't seem to get and made PVP a mockery. There are some other underline problems with this game which extent to PVP but no point getting into this topic with you.
Gz! you rolled the right class in a terribly broken game where using the same 3 abilities everybody else is using is boosting your your self-esteem to the point you confuse it with actual knowledge.
i think most of these pvp thread disagreements are due to the varied levels of pvp players. from a business perspective, PWE wants to provide a satisfying and fun experience for anyone that is interested in pvp while hardcore players feel left out in the cold. problem is, this game is designed to cater to different people and play styles. the top ranks of pvp players have just as much a case as the more casual pvpers do and i'm sure that PWE is interested in trying to cater to everyone. it wasn't long ago that there were weekly threads popping up about leaver penalties. matchmaking has been asked for as well. now that those things are here, it's like... where did all those people go that were asking for this stuff?
every implementation of change is going to require a period of adjustment. in the case of the matchmaking system, in order to be ranked, you have to play the game. even if these changes were up on the preview shard for six months, the true test happens when these changes go live. things may need to be tweaked and refined over time. this is not uncommon in this environment.
it's not like this is the first and last pvp implementation in the game. i'm sure there will be more to come.
i think most of these pvp thread disagreements are due to the varied levels of pvp players. from a business perspective, PWE wants to provide a satisfying and fun experience for anyone that is interested in pvp while hardcore players feel left out in the cold.
it wasn't long ago that there were weekly threads popping up about leaver penalties. matchmaking has been asked for as well. now that those things are here, it's like... where did all those people go that were asking for this stuff?
At least someone can admit the first part. The second part is mainly pugs who don't know what they're doing in the first place. Besides, the matchmaking was made an issue before it was implemented, I know several upper-level players who prefer PvP who warned about it, but it went through anyway. This one isn't going to be so easy to come back from.
The second part is mainly pugs who don't know what they're doing in the first place.
this may be true, but pvp isn't an exclusive club that only belongs to the hardcore crowd. if the end result is to get more people interested in a fair match, how we get there is irrelevant. it may hurt for a little while but it's not going to be like what blizzard did with all of D3's promise of arena pvp.
It's your perception and it IS different, just that it doesn't make it worse.
If you're flying a fighter jet and then you drive a car at 200 km/h after that you'll still feel like going slow.
Which is 30-40% of someone's HP, how much do you think you should be able to hit in your utopian game?
You know, that guy is right, i can't see someone playing pvp in mmos for 15 years and then finding neverwinter a great experience.
Why is it boring? because people can fight back? because you can't kill them before they get up from the ground?
I think the first thing on that list you made should be counter-play which is one fact you're oblivious about and you think a game is very enjoyable without it.
I didn't know how you and your friend's ego both online in the same time didn't crush the server but this is the first attempt this game had of making real PVP. If you think the game is ruined because now your opponent can actually cast a spell then i don't know where your experience comes from really cause atm there is no game that allows what you were able to do in neverwinter pre-patch.
There are many things the devs don't understand, copy/pasted some models without understanding the thought behind them but improving counter-play isn't something i can criticize for.
These are of course "my" personal opinions. I feel the PvP is worse, and I am not having fun doing it atm.
My point in hitting someone for 10k- Using a perfect vorpal, with the ArP I had, adding in the bonus's from prone dmg as well as other debuffs, the CW having 0 Tenacity, the numbers just don't add up. It makes no sense.
This was a CW with less than T1 gear(I asked). Of course it was frustrating. Did Cryptic do a good job putting everyone on the same playing field? I spose I'd say so. So yesterday I decided to test it. I equipped myself with terrible gear, and NO weapon, or Armor Enchants. The results were as I guessed. Nearly, exactly the same, as when I equipped my PvP gear, and Perfect Enchants. If I could put the differance into a percentage, it would have been; Perfect Gear at 90%.....Terrible Gear at 88% effectiveness. Now please don't read into this what it isn't, I'm not saying I ENJOY pug stomping, nor do I enjoy one shotting anyone...ever. However, when I spent months playing this game....earning every piece of gear I had, and upgrading, and finally earning my perfect enchants, and Rank 8's...I feel absolutely ripped off, when I cant hit a brand new lvl 60 with a 7k GS for more than 5k. The numbers don't add up at all, and yes..it absolutely took the fun right out of PvP for me. I am all about a person receiving, what they put into the game.
I fought an equally geared GWF yesterday. Wanna know how much we were hitting each other for? 3-500..on CRITS. A fiew, VERY fiew random 3k crits..other than that..3-500. We finally stopped and just stood there staring at each other.
I encourage you to do what I did, and test for yourself. Take off your armor/weapon enchants..go buy some random green gear and go PvP....you will be just as effective as you are with the current gear you have.
In a nutshell..this is now GW2 PvP.
PvP lasts longer...
The Q's aren't as long now..
Everyone, no matter how long they have been playing or what gear they have, are now viable in PvP.
Overall...Cryptic gave all the players crying about being beat in PvP exactly what they wanted.
So in that regards, this PvP patch was very successful.
But from a guy that's used to PvP being brutal and the more hard-core aspect of an MMO....they turned decent PvP into Carebear PvP that nearly mirrors that of GW2.
If you just turn 60..and go into a PvP match in a game that's been out almost a year with a GS of 7k.....you should EXPECT to get fisted all over the place.
this may be true, but pvp isn't an exclusive club that only belongs to the hardcore crowd. if the end result is to get more people interested in a fair match, how we get there is irrelevant. it may hurt for a little while but it's not going to be like what blizzard did with all of D3's promise of arena pvp.
I agree, and disagree.
Its obvious any decent game maker wants to do their best to cater to everyone, from the elite to the casual. Makes perfect sense.
However, you saying how they get there is irrelevant, is pure ignorance.
Its easy to bring a population into a new game.
Its harder, but not impossible obviously to keep people playing the game.
Its near impossible, if not literally non-existent to bring people back, that have already quit.
Lets be honest. its plainly obvious Cryptic Developers haven't a clue when it comes to PvP. I'm sure you've seen the video of my guild playing the Devs. The one they took off the official website. I would link the PvP match but you have successfully crushed that fun part of the Forums.......So from a guy that has played MMO's as long as I have, and have seen good games come and go, and fail and succeed...they went about this the wrong way, and its all too little, too late.
Wow... I thought this was a "guide" for players, not another hot-air "I know better than developers because I play games for most of my life" thread. What a wasted click. It's because of threads like this that I actually steer *away* from PvP - because I'm so tired of self-proclaimed elitists ("I played for XX years, thusly I AM EXPERT"). Go toot your horn into a toilet, please.
@OP: Okay, so you know better than the game studio what makes a great PvP experience, if it's so easy then please visit their "Careers" web page and sign-up. However you're lacking in your FORUM THREAD SUBJECT TITLES. But I suppose I shouldn't blame you in this, as is such with most forum thread creators.
Normally I'd just stay quiet and move-on. But I am so tired of elitist "I am greater-than-thou" types I had to comment.
Mods: If you feel the need, go ahead and delete this post as it "does not contribute to the discussion". But at least I'm warmed-up now.
It's your perception and it IS different, just that it doesn't make it worse.
If you're flying a fighter jet and then you drive a car at 200 km/h after that you'll still feel like going slow
So, it's not worse, eh? Well, based on my perception -it is worse. The feel of the mechanics or whatever one would call it. The matches have been better,,however, since people are staying
and are better matched.
Wow... I thought this was a "guide" for players, not another hot-air "I know better than developers because I play games for most of my life" thread. What a wasted click. It's because of threads like this that I actually steer *away* from PvP - because I'm so tired of self-proclaimed elitists ("I played for XX years, thusly I AM EXPERT"). Go toot your horn into a toilet, please.
@OP: Okay, so you know better than the game studio what makes a great PvP experience, if it's so easy then please visit their "Careers" web page and sign-up. However you're lacking in your FORUM THREAD SUBJECT TITLES. But I suppose I shouldn't blame you in this, as is such with most forum thread creators.
Normally I'd just stay quiet and move-on. But I am so tired of elitist "I am greater-than-thou" types I had to comment.
Mods: If you feel the need, go ahead and delete this post as it "does not contribute to the discussion". But at least I'm warmed-up now.
~sighs~
There is nothing elitist at all about this post.
I've played serious PvP for 15+ years - Fact
I've seen good games come and go - Fact
A large majority of the PvP community is upset about this PvP patch - Fact
The 8 things I've mentioned are what made games like EQ, UO, DAOC and others successful for many years - Fact
If you "steer away from PvP"...why are you even clicking on a pvp titled thread?
This is a "discussion"...not a place for someone who doesn't care about PvP, to come in blabbering about nothing with absolutely no frame of reference at all on the topic at hand.
Ehum.. My Orb enchantment effect is still stuck in my waist after a year, so don't hold your breath. :DD They don't care. They really don't. Time and time and time again we see patching done without having listened to the players. GWF and permas ruin PvP, and has been for quite some time. We all know it, we don't like it. (the ones that does not use these troll build that is) Yet they don't fix it, not even trying to fix it. Do as I do, try to accept the game for what it is and focus on the good things, because the bad things will likely only get worse.
Ehum.. My Orb enchantment effect is still stuck in my waist after a year, so don't hold your breath. :DD They don't care. They really don't. Time and time and time again we see patching done without having listened to the players. GWF and permas ruin PvP, and has been for quite some time. We all know it, we don't like it. (the ones that does not use these troll build that is) Yet they don't fix it, not even trying to fix it. Do as I do, try to accept the game for what it is and focus on the good things, because the bad things will likely only get worse.
Heh..I'm right there with ya man
I'm by no means some Cryptic Hater. I enjoyed the game for a long time but its taken a turn down a road I will likely not be continuing on. But as I am still currently playing, I figured I'd put in my 2cents in hopes that they may take a look at it
For the most part this has been a productive thread with good feedback on my OP. Always gonna have some people wanting to derail or Troll though..I got a whole lot of whatevs for that =P
this may be true, but pvp isn't an exclusive club that only belongs to the hardcore crowd. if the end result is to get more people interested in a fair match, how we get there is irrelevant. it may hurt for a little while but it's not going to be like what blizzard did with all of D3's promise of arena pvp.
Let me just say this, there's a reason so many significant changes were done to D3 over the past year, and why it's player base is growing again. It's because they finally realized what they did was stupid, and they fixed it. And yeah, good example, don't mess with your PvP base, it's not a good idea, especially the upper-tier players. They want the best, they expect the best, not the subpar. It would have been SO easy for you to make a premade-only queue system, SO easy. Even with the new changes. Over a year and this is the only thing we get out of PvP.
It would have been SO easy for you to make a premade-only queue system, SO easy. Even with the new changes. Over a year and this is the only thing we get out of PvP.
1. Premade Q System.
2. ONE, new map.
I guarantee...theres well over 1,000 players..not playing anymore, that would still be here playing today if those two simple things were implemented months ago......<--If only they had listened.
I guarantee...theres well over 1,000 players..not playing anymore, that would still be here playing today if those two simple things were implemented months ago......<--If only they had listened.
Yep, haven't seen you on in awhile man, but then again I finally reached my breaking point two days ago for this game. I log on, craft, and basically leave to go play something else or enjoy real life.
Thank you for your comments that have nothing to do at all with topic at hand :cool: While I appreciate your enthusiasm to troll, you should try to read, and understand the very first comment.
Even with a proper matchmaking system, I don't have a ton of desire to actually fight people.
Don't like to fight people. Why are you even reading a thread with PvP in the title?
I'll post them here for you again in case you didn't quite understand them the first time.
1. Ranked Arena matches of 2, 3, 4 and 5 players. <--- This right here would quite literally almost completely eliminate Pug stomping, as your geared top players, will generally always be in ranked matches.
2. Diminishing Returns in PvP of all CC abilities; prones, stuns, dazes, immobilizes etc - This brings the level of PvP back to the "skill" factor, and not just the "I smash buttons stuff dies and stays on the ground" style of play that we currently have.
3. Larger, different PvP Maps; Juggernaut, Capture the Flag, King of the Hill, Objective Based PvP, Death match, to name a fiew.
4. PvP brackets like we previously had, that anyone of any skill or gear score can join.
5. A separate PvP Q, where players can create a team of 2, 3, 4 and 5 players, add themselves into this Q. Where other players can see who they are, what there team make up is, and they can challenge, or accept incoming matches. (This is your premade vs premade).
6. 20% REDUCTION to Healing in PvP for EVERY class. Get rid of Righteousness completely(the guy who designed this should be fired imo).
7. Actual PvP gear. When I say "actual" PvP gear. I am talking about gear with resistances towards the games mechanics, i.e: Radiant, necrotic etc resistances. With armor slots, to enchant with PvP stones(earned through PvP). Actual PvP gear is terrible in PvE..because it generally consists of Health/Defense and resistances the player choses to slot. Players with PvP gear have to sacrifice common stats such as;arp, crit, power etc, in order to make themselves stronger against other players.
8. OPEN World PvP zones, with no level requirement. <---Huuuuuuuuge battles, Guild VS Guild, so much fun comes from open world.(Don't like PvP? Don't go here...simple)
Whatever. What you want is to hijack the combat system and turn the game into Call of Duty but without the guns.
No I don't particularly want to fight other people. I want to fight dragons. In dungeons. Hence, Dungeons & Dragons.
If I had wanted to run around and kill people I would have signed up for that game, not this one.
But I see how the devs are attempting to cater to the PVP crowd, and my fear is that in Mod 3 we will all be "highly encouraged" (but not forced!) to participate in PVP in some form or another. Just like now, nobody is "forced" to PVP but, well, artifact. So I'll more than likely have to put up with more PVP in the future. So from that point of view, yeah, I'm glad you don't get to one-shot me anymore.
Edit: And to relate to your item #8, the plan for Module 3 already includes having an open-world PVP zone just as you envision.
For the first time ever, Neverwinter will feature a PvP Campaign, which will have daily quests focused on slaying other players, or navigating through dangerous PvP areas for resources."
What will the rewards be from these campaigns? Who knows? Will it be as good as something like the Skull artifact, that all the PVE players will also want to farm?
Whatever. What you want is to hijack the combat system and turn the game into Call of Duty but without the guns.
No I don't particularly want to fight other people. I want to fight dragons. In dungeons. Hence, Dungeons & Dragons.
If I had wanted to run around and kill people I would have signed up for that game, not this one.
But I see how the devs are attempting to cater to the PVP crowd, and my fear is that in Mod 3 we will all be "highly encouraged" (but not forced!) to participate in PVP in some form or another. Just like now, nobody is "forced" to PVP but, well, artifact. So I'll more than likely have to put up with more PVP in the future. So from that point of view, yeah, I'm glad you don't get to one-shot me anymore.
Many, many people in this game can vouch for me, as well as my guild, that we are not about "one-shotting" people. We ask for skilled fights, against appropriately geared players. So no more need to keep saying this "one-shot" nonsense because it never has been true about me personally.
Moving on to what you are saying.
Again..these are things that have made other games PvP extremely competitive, fun, and increase the longevity of the game for more than a decade in some cases. It has nothing to do with hijacking any combat system. Its a fine tune, that would only increase the longevity of this game.
As well as those 8, put skill back into the majority defining factor of a win or loss between players. You said you don't PvP so I don't expect you to understand what a lot of it means, but I assure you my friend. Those 8 cater to everyone who choses to participate in PvP, whether they are someone like yourself who PvP's only when he "has" too, or myself, who does nothing at all but PvP.
I see your frustration where you feel that PvP'rs are affecting your PvE mechanics/abilities etc. However, I can tell you that generally the only reason why PvE ever takes a hit negatively for balancing in PvP, is when pure PvE players like yourself join PvP and get beat constantly and don't understand why. <<<---Don't take that the wrong way, I'm not saying you are bad or saying anything negative to you at all..I'm speaking in general. Balancing is, and will always be a double-edged sword when it comes to crossing the line between PvE and PvP balancing. Its up to the game makers to seek out the public and do their best to sift through the BS, and come up with an excellent combat system that everyone can enjoy. That being said is the reason I made this post in the first place. These 8 in particular didn't just happen on day 1 of UO, or day 1 of EQ..they were implemented over years and years of feedback and play. Whether Cryptic decides to continue adjusting the PvP or not....at this point in the game reinventing the wheel just isn't feasible, nor does it work.
No, that's okay. I am bad at PVP. I freely admit it. At this point I realize that in order to do well in PVP I would have to completely start a new character from scratch with a PVP-focused race, PVP-focused ability rolls (an INT/CON CW? lol), PVP-focused feats and PVP-focused gear. And I would have to give up playing a CW, which would be hard for me. Since I have next to zero desire to actually do this, then I will go in with my PVE CW and just be bad.
I simply shudder at the thought of an open-world PVP zone that has rewards along the line of a PVE-useful artifact like the skull.
Let me just say this, there's a reason so many significant changes were done to D3 over the past year, and why it's player base is growing again. It's because they finally realized what they did was stupid, and they fixed it. And yeah, good example, don't mess with your PvP base, it's not a good idea, especially the upper-tier players. They want the best, they expect the best, not the subpar. It would have been SO easy for you to make a premade-only queue system, SO easy. Even with the new changes. Over a year and this is the only thing we get out of PvP.
i believe you misunderstood me. i wasn't referring to the revamping of D3, but the continued promise of pvp beyond the cheaply implemented "brawling" feature. even with all of those changes, they still haven't provided pvp in D3. perhaps that is the smartest decision they could have ever made.
No, that's okay. I am bad at PVP. I freely admit it. At this point I realize that in order to do well in PVP I would have to completely start a new character from scratch with a PVP-focused race, PVP-focused ability rolls (an INT/CON CW? lol), PVP-focused feats and PVP-focused gear. And I would have to give up playing a CW, which would be hard for me. Since I have next to zero desire to actually do this, then I will go in with my PVE CW and just be bad.
I simply shudder at the thought of an open-world PVP zone that has rewards along the line of a PVE-useful artifact like the skull.
Its not necessary to start a character completely over to be viable in PvP. Min-Maxing compared to what you may have started with, is really not that significant of a difference.
i believe you misunderstood me. i wasn't referring to the revamping of D3, but the continued promise of pvp beyond the cheaply implemented "brawling" feature. even with all of those changes, they still haven't provided pvp in D3. perhaps that is the smartest decision they could have ever made.
Then you know what happened to Blizzard in Korea. Hint, do what's right, not to keep the Zen flowing. In the long run, you'll make more money off of people who actually pay for this game.
Comments
I did a large amount of PvP today with three of my favorite characters..GWF, TR and HR. I spose out of maybe 50 or so matches I think I only lost maybe 3 or 4. Not one of those matches did I actually have fun in. Everything feels so clunky and slow to me now, and the more I won, the longer my Q times got.(just as I, and many others predicted).
I also don't "feel" like anything is consistent. Playing my GWF I think my highest hit on someone was 10k. I fought a CW on point for 4 minutes in one of my first couple matches. This particular CW had no Tenacity, so just the straight 10%, adding in the factor that I was rubberbanding all over the place, using LS was literally repelling me backwards its so bugged(not the path ability), and I think I only ever hit him for 2k. This is with a perfect vorpal, 33%crit, and 27%ArP. I switched to GPF during this ridiculous fight and still same thing. Yet, when I logged my HR for his first couple matches, other GWF's with terrible gear were hitting him for 10k+. Numbers just don't add up....
I played with my normal gear first..then switched to some tenacity gear..with Tenacity at 784 currently(some crappy pvp gear), I literally noticed no difference, in the damage my GWF was taking with, or without it.
Now, with well over 30 matches played on my GWF, with a w/l of atleast 90%, when I Q solo. I get put with people in terrible gear, who fight off points, and stay fighting 1 single gwf the entire match..heh. While I am stuck fighting 4 perfect geared characters. I really don't get it
I'm afraid this was the final straw for me. PvP is so boring now, that I cant even stomach to do more matches to "see if the ELO starts working better", like some have said.
I agree with this...can't quite put my finger on what it is, however. The feel is just different.
Yeap, I'm still getting hit by 12k Icy Rays and Split Shots (12k mitigated from 13k, my brain exploded when I saw this).
Thank you for offering absolutely nothing to this conversation :cool:
As I said to you before, and as we discussed a few times in TS. It WON'T get better. If you attach this kind of ranking system for PvP to a game with a generally static player base, queue times WILL be longer when you're ranked higher. There's no way around it, expect to extend the ranking and have you take whoever's under you, which will lead to the same complaining as before. There's only so many times I can hear Essence of Cash, Essence of Swipe, Essence of Credit Card, etc. Learn how to play so the devs stop giving in to your whines and ruining the entire frikken game.
It's your perception and it IS different, just that it doesn't make it worse.
If you're flying a fighter jet and then you drive a car at 200 km/h after that you'll still feel like going slow.
Which is 30-40% of someone's HP, how much do you think you should be able to hit in your utopian game?
You know, that guy is right, i can't see someone playing pvp in mmos for 15 years and then finding neverwinter a great experience.
Why is it boring? because people can fight back? because you can't kill them before they get up from the ground?
I think the first thing on that list you made should be counter-play which is one fact you're oblivious about and you think a game is very enjoyable without it.
I didn't know how you and your friend's ego both online in the same time didn't crush the server but this is the first attempt this game had of making real PVP. If you think the game is ruined because now your opponent can actually cast a spell then i don't know where your experience comes from really cause atm there is no game that allows what you were able to do in neverwinter pre-patch.
There are many things the devs don't understand, copy/pasted some models without understanding the thought behind them but improving counter-play isn't something i can criticize for.
Gz! you rolled the right class in a terribly broken game where using the same 3 abilities everybody else is using is boosting your your self-esteem to the point you confuse it with actual knowledge.
every implementation of change is going to require a period of adjustment. in the case of the matchmaking system, in order to be ranked, you have to play the game. even if these changes were up on the preview shard for six months, the true test happens when these changes go live. things may need to be tweaked and refined over time. this is not uncommon in this environment.
it's not like this is the first and last pvp implementation in the game. i'm sure there will be more to come.
At least someone can admit the first part. The second part is mainly pugs who don't know what they're doing in the first place. Besides, the matchmaking was made an issue before it was implemented, I know several upper-level players who prefer PvP who warned about it, but it went through anyway. This one isn't going to be so easy to come back from.
this may be true, but pvp isn't an exclusive club that only belongs to the hardcore crowd. if the end result is to get more people interested in a fair match, how we get there is irrelevant. it may hurt for a little while but it's not going to be like what blizzard did with all of D3's promise of arena pvp.
These are of course "my" personal opinions. I feel the PvP is worse, and I am not having fun doing it atm.
My point in hitting someone for 10k- Using a perfect vorpal, with the ArP I had, adding in the bonus's from prone dmg as well as other debuffs, the CW having 0 Tenacity, the numbers just don't add up. It makes no sense.
This was a CW with less than T1 gear(I asked). Of course it was frustrating. Did Cryptic do a good job putting everyone on the same playing field? I spose I'd say so. So yesterday I decided to test it. I equipped myself with terrible gear, and NO weapon, or Armor Enchants. The results were as I guessed. Nearly, exactly the same, as when I equipped my PvP gear, and Perfect Enchants. If I could put the differance into a percentage, it would have been; Perfect Gear at 90%.....Terrible Gear at 88% effectiveness. Now please don't read into this what it isn't, I'm not saying I ENJOY pug stomping, nor do I enjoy one shotting anyone...ever. However, when I spent months playing this game....earning every piece of gear I had, and upgrading, and finally earning my perfect enchants, and Rank 8's...I feel absolutely ripped off, when I cant hit a brand new lvl 60 with a 7k GS for more than 5k. The numbers don't add up at all, and yes..it absolutely took the fun right out of PvP for me. I am all about a person receiving, what they put into the game.
I fought an equally geared GWF yesterday. Wanna know how much we were hitting each other for? 3-500..on CRITS. A fiew, VERY fiew random 3k crits..other than that..3-500. We finally stopped and just stood there staring at each other.
I encourage you to do what I did, and test for yourself. Take off your armor/weapon enchants..go buy some random green gear and go PvP....you will be just as effective as you are with the current gear you have.
In a nutshell..this is now GW2 PvP.
PvP lasts longer...
The Q's aren't as long now..
Everyone, no matter how long they have been playing or what gear they have, are now viable in PvP.
Overall...Cryptic gave all the players crying about being beat in PvP exactly what they wanted.
So in that regards, this PvP patch was very successful.
But from a guy that's used to PvP being brutal and the more hard-core aspect of an MMO....they turned decent PvP into Carebear PvP that nearly mirrors that of GW2.
If you just turn 60..and go into a PvP match in a game that's been out almost a year with a GS of 7k.....you should EXPECT to get fisted all over the place.
I agree, and disagree.
Its obvious any decent game maker wants to do their best to cater to everyone, from the elite to the casual. Makes perfect sense.
However, you saying how they get there is irrelevant, is pure ignorance.
Its easy to bring a population into a new game.
Its harder, but not impossible obviously to keep people playing the game.
Its near impossible, if not literally non-existent to bring people back, that have already quit.
Lets be honest. its plainly obvious Cryptic Developers haven't a clue when it comes to PvP. I'm sure you've seen the video of my guild playing the Devs. The one they took off the official website. I would link the PvP match but you have successfully crushed that fun part of the Forums.......So from a guy that has played MMO's as long as I have, and have seen good games come and go, and fail and succeed...they went about this the wrong way, and its all too little, too late.
@OP: Okay, so you know better than the game studio what makes a great PvP experience, if it's so easy then please visit their "Careers" web page and sign-up. However you're lacking in your FORUM THREAD SUBJECT TITLES. But I suppose I shouldn't blame you in this, as is such with most forum thread creators.
Normally I'd just stay quiet and move-on. But I am so tired of elitist "I am greater-than-thou" types I had to comment.
Mods: If you feel the need, go ahead and delete this post as it "does not contribute to the discussion". But at least I'm warmed-up now.
~sighs~
So, it's not worse, eh? Well, based on my perception -it is worse. The feel of the mechanics or whatever one would call it. The matches have been better,,however, since people are staying
and are better matched.
There is nothing elitist at all about this post.
I've played serious PvP for 15+ years - Fact
I've seen good games come and go - Fact
A large majority of the PvP community is upset about this PvP patch - Fact
The 8 things I've mentioned are what made games like EQ, UO, DAOC and others successful for many years - Fact
If you "steer away from PvP"...why are you even clicking on a pvp titled thread?
This is a "discussion"...not a place for someone who doesn't care about PvP, to come in blabbering about nothing with absolutely no frame of reference at all on the topic at hand.
Heh..I'm right there with ya man
I'm by no means some Cryptic Hater. I enjoyed the game for a long time but its taken a turn down a road I will likely not be continuing on. But as I am still currently playing, I figured I'd put in my 2cents in hopes that they may take a look at it
For the most part this has been a productive thread with good feedback on my OP. Always gonna have some people wanting to derail or Troll though..I got a whole lot of whatevs for that =P
Let me just say this, there's a reason so many significant changes were done to D3 over the past year, and why it's player base is growing again. It's because they finally realized what they did was stupid, and they fixed it. And yeah, good example, don't mess with your PvP base, it's not a good idea, especially the upper-tier players. They want the best, they expect the best, not the subpar. It would have been SO easy for you to make a premade-only queue system, SO easy. Even with the new changes. Over a year and this is the only thing we get out of PvP.
1. Premade Q System.
2. ONE, new map.
I guarantee...theres well over 1,000 players..not playing anymore, that would still be here playing today if those two simple things were implemented months ago......<--If only they had listened.
Yep, haven't seen you on in awhile man, but then again I finally reached my breaking point two days ago for this game. I log on, craft, and basically leave to go play something else or enjoy real life.
OP doesn't get to one-shot new L60's anymore.
Cry me a river.
Thank you for your comments that have nothing to do at all with topic at hand :cool: While I appreciate your enthusiasm to troll, you should try to read, and understand the very first comment.
Seeings how you. Don't like to fight people. Why are you even reading a thread with PvP in the title?
I'll post them here for you again in case you didn't quite understand them the first time.
1. Ranked Arena matches of 2, 3, 4 and 5 players. <--- This right here would quite literally almost completely eliminate Pug stomping, as your geared top players, will generally always be in ranked matches.
2. Diminishing Returns in PvP of all CC abilities; prones, stuns, dazes, immobilizes etc - This brings the level of PvP back to the "skill" factor, and not just the "I smash buttons stuff dies and stays on the ground" style of play that we currently have.
3. Larger, different PvP Maps; Juggernaut, Capture the Flag, King of the Hill, Objective Based PvP, Death match, to name a fiew.
4. PvP brackets like we previously had, that anyone of any skill or gear score can join.
5. A separate PvP Q, where players can create a team of 2, 3, 4 and 5 players, add themselves into this Q. Where other players can see who they are, what there team make up is, and they can challenge, or accept incoming matches. (This is your premade vs premade).
6. 20% REDUCTION to Healing in PvP for EVERY class. Get rid of Righteousness completely(the guy who designed this should be fired imo).
7. Actual PvP gear. When I say "actual" PvP gear. I am talking about gear with resistances towards the games mechanics, i.e: Radiant, necrotic etc resistances. With armor slots, to enchant with PvP stones(earned through PvP). Actual PvP gear is terrible in PvE..because it generally consists of Health/Defense and resistances the player choses to slot. Players with PvP gear have to sacrifice common stats such as;arp, crit, power etc, in order to make themselves stronger against other players.
8. OPEN World PvP zones, with no level requirement. <---Huuuuuuuuge battles, Guild VS Guild, so much fun comes from open world.(Don't like PvP? Don't go here...simple)
No I don't particularly want to fight other people. I want to fight dragons. In dungeons. Hence, Dungeons & Dragons.
If I had wanted to run around and kill people I would have signed up for that game, not this one.
But I see how the devs are attempting to cater to the PVP crowd, and my fear is that in Mod 3 we will all be "highly encouraged" (but not forced!) to participate in PVP in some form or another. Just like now, nobody is "forced" to PVP but, well, artifact. So I'll more than likely have to put up with more PVP in the future. So from that point of view, yeah, I'm glad you don't get to one-shot me anymore.
Edit: And to relate to your item #8, the plan for Module 3 already includes having an open-world PVP zone just as you envision.
http://community.arcgames.com/en/news/neverwinter/detail/3034893-announcing_-module-3-curse-of-icewind-dale
"PvP Campaign
For the first time ever, Neverwinter will feature a PvP Campaign, which will have daily quests focused on slaying other players, or navigating through dangerous PvP areas for resources."
What will the rewards be from these campaigns? Who knows? Will it be as good as something like the Skull artifact, that all the PVE players will also want to farm?
Many, many people in this game can vouch for me, as well as my guild, that we are not about "one-shotting" people. We ask for skilled fights, against appropriately geared players. So no more need to keep saying this "one-shot" nonsense because it never has been true about me personally.
Moving on to what you are saying.
Again..these are things that have made other games PvP extremely competitive, fun, and increase the longevity of the game for more than a decade in some cases. It has nothing to do with hijacking any combat system. Its a fine tune, that would only increase the longevity of this game.
As well as those 8, put skill back into the majority defining factor of a win or loss between players. You said you don't PvP so I don't expect you to understand what a lot of it means, but I assure you my friend. Those 8 cater to everyone who choses to participate in PvP, whether they are someone like yourself who PvP's only when he "has" too, or myself, who does nothing at all but PvP.
I see your frustration where you feel that PvP'rs are affecting your PvE mechanics/abilities etc. However, I can tell you that generally the only reason why PvE ever takes a hit negatively for balancing in PvP, is when pure PvE players like yourself join PvP and get beat constantly and don't understand why. <<<---Don't take that the wrong way, I'm not saying you are bad or saying anything negative to you at all..I'm speaking in general. Balancing is, and will always be a double-edged sword when it comes to crossing the line between PvE and PvP balancing. Its up to the game makers to seek out the public and do their best to sift through the BS, and come up with an excellent combat system that everyone can enjoy. That being said is the reason I made this post in the first place. These 8 in particular didn't just happen on day 1 of UO, or day 1 of EQ..they were implemented over years and years of feedback and play. Whether Cryptic decides to continue adjusting the PvP or not....at this point in the game reinventing the wheel just isn't feasible, nor does it work.
I simply shudder at the thought of an open-world PVP zone that has rewards along the line of a PVE-useful artifact like the skull.
i believe you misunderstood me. i wasn't referring to the revamping of D3, but the continued promise of pvp beyond the cheaply implemented "brawling" feature. even with all of those changes, they still haven't provided pvp in D3. perhaps that is the smartest decision they could have ever made.
Its not necessary to start a character completely over to be viable in PvP. Min-Maxing compared to what you may have started with, is really not that significant of a difference.
Then you know what happened to Blizzard in Korea. Hint, do what's right, not to keep the Zen flowing. In the long run, you'll make more money off of people who actually pay for this game.