I've never noticed war trolls popping out of chains (though it's been ages since I went back to sharandar), but it's more about the gratuitous AoE damage than the snare (specially since the damage often one-shots squishy things anyway). The radius is stupid-large.
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silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
edited March 2014
Ive never tried pods, seems like a gimick situational thing, which is fine if we could use all of our skills, we cannot.
I used break the spirit for awhile, its kind of lackluster.
Solo wise, my typical rotation for speed is Divine Glow, Chains or SB (depending on the encounter and Daunting Light with my Daily use usually Flame Strike. My At wills are typically Sacred Flame and Aseal .. Ive done the Bots and Sacred Flame combo, it really works well. I can now kill the PF Cyrstal in one rotation solo.
PVE DD I play around depenending on the group, I try to always keep DG up, but sometimes have to drop depending on whats going on, sometimes gets replaced with HW, sometimes FF , I find FF pretty powerful tool really. DL is replaced with Astral Shield and I always use Sacred Flame in a DD, way faster divinity generator.
PVP, I used to use my DD set up most of the time, but since post patch, thats out the window, I dont bother with Sacred flame (who the heck has time to cast 3 SF's around! ) Bots works well, its a one hit, then forget , move, move , move. SB used to work well, but as people continue to gear up, I see SB barely working, chains always works well , in terms of damage and radius. DL is useless, (not that its not a powerful encounter, it is, but its so slow with such a small radius window, you will always have a hard time hitting poeple.
But thats pvp, and right now DCs in PVP are pretty limited in thier role and rotations, you can bring whatever you want, but its going to be worthless =P .
OH also, you do not have to do those daily dungeons solo! Get someone to tag along (war makers or camp or whatever it was called was a laggy nightmare for me, way faster with someone else) Even now I will tag along with peeps, I prefer one or two more, not the 5 just becuase it takes to long, but doing those solo dungeons with 2 or 3 makes it a breeze.
I've never noticed war trolls popping out of chains (though it's been ages since I went back to sharandar), but it's more about the gratuitous AoE damage than the snare (specially since the damage often one-shots squishy things anyway). The radius is stupid-large.
War Trolls, Foulspawn Berserkers and Blademasters all have that charge attack which instantly breaks rooting. I'm not going to say that Chains isn't a good power, but DG does enough damage to either one shot or at least severely maul squishies and what's left is easy to dispatch with SB or at wills. I won't give up my DG/DL combo and SB is just too useful to replace. If not for that, Chains would certainly be a strong choice as it's another power that can be used to feed Ethereal Boon. When I have used it, my favorite tactic against groups of all melee mobs was to throw it at my feet or just in front of me, then aggro the mobs with DG. That actually does work well on the War Trolls since they will use their charge, which I dodge and then they get rooted.
"We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
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darkzangaMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2014
Ive got almost full purple, with a vorp also, not that it means much. I will try Chains again on test. Every one is talking BoTS. The OP is talking Breaking the Spirt, BtS. I never use BoTS.
Im going to check on test server but going by the numbers it appears BtS and Forge give more single target damage than Chains. BUT I am very interested to check that out.
I thought they took out the extra AP gain that sunburst gave. Seems to be less AP than when I started.
Sunburst is still an amazing AP gain tool, it's just no longer capable of filling half your pool per cast. It benefits multiplicatively with enemies and allies hit, though, so it's better in a party context where you can pop it in the pack and hit everyone in your party and 5 monsters.
Chains is not really a single-target spell (few our our encounters are, to be honest) but it's still useful for solo boss encounters just because they usually start out with "boss + a bunch of squishies". One pop of chains, and it's just "boss". Plus I can never be bothered to switch powers round for different situations in solo stuff.
BotS basically shines against multiple targets if you're good at marking each target once, or (especially) if you're good enough to spam it onto a target till it crits, THEN move onto another target.
I'm not nearly twitchy enough for that (I'd go as far as to say I'm terrible at it), so SF for me.
You may consider trying chains with DG and DL. It's nice to hold people in place so you can hit them with your two offensive area spells.
No thanks, that was my old encoutner rotation. I melt others HP down much quicker using the new setup, PoD + DG + DL.
I'd like to note, that i use Punishing light alot. It just rocks. I usually use it just after i went through the roatition.
EDIT: PoD used on a target that others are targetting helps kil them quickly and give you loads of AP. usually three uses with kills will give enough AP, to use my daily powers.
But thats pvp, and right now DCs in PVP are pretty limited in thier role and rotations, you can bring whatever you want, but its going to be worthless =P .
Depends on your build and play style. I regularly see myself in top 3 in pvp, unless its against a good premade team.
Sunburst is still an amazing AP gain tool, it's just no longer capable of filling half your pool per cast. It benefits multiplicatively with enemies and allies hit, though, so it's better in a party context where you can pop it in the pack and hit everyone in your party and 5 monsters.
Chains is not really a single-target spell (few our our encounters are, to be honest) but it's still useful for solo boss encounters just because they usually start out with "boss + a bunch of squishies". One pop of chains, and it's just "boss". Plus I can never be bothered to switch powers round for different situations in solo stuff.
BotS basically shines against multiple targets if you're good at marking each target once, or (especially) if you're good enough to spam it onto a target till it crits, THEN move onto another target.
I'm not nearly twitchy enough for that (I'd go as far as to say I'm terrible at it), so SF for me.
Chains may be an aoe spell but like many of our spells of this type it's damage is modified by the number of enemies it hits, making it just as good vs multiple targets as against a single target. TBH I don't think I have a spell except DL that hits as hard as chains does. I've crit for 18k with chains against a one of those DR bosses, had divine DG and HG up on him at the time
I've got to say that now that I've specced AC for pvp puroses I totally miss my BotS for solo content. I notice the diference a lot, also I was used to just dotting up all the squishies, keep having to stop doing that now because I'm just throwing ASeal on them for no real reason.
Chains may be an aoe spell but like many of our spells of this type it's damage is modified by the number of enemies it hits, making it just as good vs multiple targets as against a single target. TBH I don't think I have a spell except DL that hits as hard as chains does. I've crit for 18k with chains against a one of those DR bosses, had divine DG and HG up on him at the time
I've got to say that now that I've specced AC for pvp puroses I totally miss my BotS for solo content. I notice the diference a lot, also I was used to just dotting up all the squishies, keep having to stop doing that now because I'm just throwing ASeal on them for no real reason.
Chains' damage potential decreases with the number of targets. Naturally you will hit a single target harder than five in this case. It's an asinine mechanic, but it's been that way for a long time, sadly.
BotS is great, and it was one of my favorite DO abilities for certain situations. I used Sacred Flame and BotS together for solo content, and it was an efficient combo. As AC I don't put points in Sacred Flame, so I settle for BoB/AS even for solo content, but that's fine; it's not like much of anything lives through an AoE rotation, and PL melts things quickly if want it done that much faster.
mittensofdoomMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 247Arc User
edited March 2014
I use AShield, Divine Glow, SBurst usually (SBurst sets off my combat advantage mitigation feat, useful in mass mob situations)
AShield, Divine Glow, Daunting Light if im with really good geared people
AShield, Bastion, SB if im with a godawful pug, Bastion is feated
Depends on your build and play style. I regularly see myself in top 3 in pvp, unless its against a good premade team.
I took the liberty of bolding the important qualifier
Coming in 4,5,6 isnt bad seeing as im in pug party vs. good premades. There are times, that I can still get in top 3 every once in while against those good premades.
This says lot to the DPS DC. It's the complete picture that you have to look at.
Coming in 4,5,6 isnt bad seeing as im in pug party vs. good premades. There are times, that I can still get in top 3 every once in while against those good premades.
This says lot to the DPS DC. It's the complete picture that you have to look at.
EDIT: PoD helps me accomplish the above.
I don't intend to disparage any success you're having, but placement on the scoreboard doesn't have an extremely strong correlation to how good one's build is or how good one is at playing it. For every time the player with 30-40+ kills is leading the chart, there's a 9k TR farming points by being allowed to back-cap over and over again.
As for DPS DC, I really wish that it worked better in PvP, but it plays too much like a less capable if somewhat tankier CW. However, if the opposing players somehow manage to ignore the DC and fail to avoid getting smacked by what are, for the most part, very telegraphed attacks, then they deserve what's coming to them.
silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
edited March 2014
WAIT. someone plays a dps cleric! Even in my hybrid buffing arrangement I'm told off in every match for NOT healing ( which isn't true, I'm just not spamming Hw basically) how do you get away with that without all the griefing
in the world!
Chains' damage potential decreases with the number of targets. Naturally you will hit a single target harder than five in this case. It's an asinine mechanic, but it's been that way for a long time, sadly.
BotS is great, and it was one of my favorite DO abilities for certain situations. I used Sacred Flame and BotS together for solo content, and it was an efficient combo. As AC I don't put points in Sacred Flame, so I settle for BoB/AS even for solo content, but that's fine; it's not like much of anything lives through an AoE rotation, and PL melts things quickly if want it done that much faster.
Personally I think it's a great mechanic that chains has. If that spell hit everything for full dmg it would be way to powerful, and if it only hit for low dmg then it would be usless against anything but little squishy mobs. This way it's useable for both types of situations.
SF seems pretty much only useful for solo play as an AC but then I'm also not sure what other powers you could possibly need to take that would prevent you from aking SF. Personal preferance I supose.
WAIT. someone plays a dps cleric! Even in my hybrid buffing arrangement I'm told off in every match for NOT healing ( which isn't true, I'm just not spamming Hw basically) how do you get away with that without all the griefing
in the world!
I used to play Bts/Chains/FF and the only time I ever got a complaint was from a CW at low HP who I didn't heal up while we were standin garound at a cap point. the fact is if you play well and use your spells efectively most people have no reason to complain. Especially when you're winning matches
WAIT. someone plays a dps cleric! Even in my hybrid buffing arrangement I'm told off in every match for NOT healing ( which isn't true, I'm just not spamming Hw basically) how do you get away with that without all the griefing
in the world!
Oh i get players getting angry, the thing is, I just don't care. I only play PvP for the 3 dailies and/or if i need the artifact, other than that I couldnt care less for pvp. Also i get more glory and stay alive alot longer when dpsing than healing. GG pvp is an exception, i enjoy it.
So depending on the players attitude towrds me not healing them, if they are being an <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>$ i just tell them off in a not so nice manner, and ignore them. If they are just asking why am i not helaing, i tell them the truth (previously mentioned).
Honestly anyone trying to tell you, instead of giving advice on how to play your character, is an <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>$ plain and simple. If they want a healing DC let them get one before queueing. I have not healed teamate, in PvP, for over 8 months now. You play as you want to play, to hell with what others think.
Personally I think it's a great mechanic that chains has. If that spell hit everything for full dmg it would be way to powerful, and if it only hit for low dmg then it would be usless against anything but little squishy mobs. This way it's useable for both types of situations.
...or it could just inflict full damage regardless of whether it's 1 or 5 targets. Its damage isn't even as high as Daunting Light's, so it's pretty safe to say that it wouldn't be too powerful. Having an encounter with only a 5-target hit cap start to depreciate in damage if even 1 additional target is in the AoE is silly when the base damage isn't actually that amazing.
In PvE it makes a great AoE filler and can crit decently in a good rotation. Also helps keep anything living from running around, which is nice.
In PvP it's so situational that it doesn't need any kind of reduced damage. It's the easiest thing in the world to see coming and to avoid unless Divinity is wasted on it. The damage is nothing great on geared people and the root is short-lived. Hell, you can dodge right through it, set it off, and avoid the CC and the damage both.
silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
edited March 2014
Oh I get people very angry at everything in the world it seems,
Ive been told this week, I wasn't healing (which was the farthest thing from the truth, I cast a DV FF and the darn HR RAN AWAY from his heals, it isn't my fault.
Ive been told to STAY at 2 only, even though I feel like movement and pressing teams home cap is more important, when we did that match we lost 2 to 1, with me dying 14 times, in what was just a suicide mission each time, DCs cannot keep 2 vs 3 or 4 anymore. But I did it for the entire match, so I could prove a point to the morans who think its going to happen. I tried to explain nicely what the DC changes were and how it effects the game. (basically told them we are totally gimped and I CANNOT not skirt around and keep myself up any longer against 2-4 people)
IVE been on winning matches where we completely dominated and STILL got complaints that I didn't heal someone.
It boils down that people want to have divine HW cast on them, I pretty much refuse to slot it regularly at this point.
Im doing most matches DG, FF, Ashield with BoTS and Aseal. Sometimes I will change it up, but I feel this is the best mix for me to survive and contribute.
Then again I could probably pick any stupid rotation in the world and be just as effective.. I still think playing the DC right now is akin to bashing your head into a brick wall, just for the fun of it.
...or it could just inflict full damage regardless of whether it's 1 or 5 targets. Its damage isn't even as high as Daunting Light's, so it's pretty safe to say that it wouldn't be too powerful. Having an encounter with only a 5-target hit cap start to depreciate in damage if even 1 additional target is in the AoE is silly when the base damage isn't actually that amazing.
In PvE it makes a great AoE filler and can crit decently in a good rotation. Also helps keep anything living from running around, which is nice.
In PvP it's so situational that it doesn't need any kind of reduced damage. It's the easiest thing in the world to see coming and to avoid unless Divinity is wasted on it. The damage is nothing great on geared people and the root is short-lived. Hell, you can dodge right through it, set it off, and avoid the CC and the damage both.
Well I'd love it if I could hit 5 mobs for the max amount of dmg each. It wouldn't matter that much for dungeoning, agreed, seeing as how CW spells work etc. But for solo/question stuff it would probably be way to powerful. I'd just group up a bunch of tough opponent (imagine cyclops commander) something like that and if I hit them with a chains and it crit I'd insta kill all 5 of them.
I think the only time I've used chains for a dungeon is when doing draco with 2 CW's. The additional mob control after a sing seems to make the diference.
Even though the spell is not amazing in PVP I think you may somewhat undervalue it's usefulness. The aoe activation area being so large means that you can often times grab every single enemy at the cap point your fighting at. Every disables/stuned/rooted enemy in pvp is valuable now so that you can dps them or heal or reset spells/stamina to avoid your enemies next rotation. A lot of times that small amount of time that the enemies are rooted is enough to dps one down. I've gotten people at full HP with chains and that can be enough for my allies to get ahold of them and kill them. It also has a pretty short CD and can act as a nice finishing move on people. The main problem is not having enough ecounter space to slot it and that if one person seems to resist it everybody does, although I honestly didn't have this happen that often. And yes it's possible to activate it and then shift out of it which can be anoying, but more so in 1 v 1 situations.
Comments
I used break the spirit for awhile, its kind of lackluster.
Solo wise, my typical rotation for speed is Divine Glow, Chains or SB (depending on the encounter and Daunting Light with my Daily use usually Flame Strike. My At wills are typically Sacred Flame and Aseal .. Ive done the Bots and Sacred Flame combo, it really works well. I can now kill the PF Cyrstal in one rotation solo.
PVE DD I play around depenending on the group, I try to always keep DG up, but sometimes have to drop depending on whats going on, sometimes gets replaced with HW, sometimes FF , I find FF pretty powerful tool really. DL is replaced with Astral Shield and I always use Sacred Flame in a DD, way faster divinity generator.
PVP, I used to use my DD set up most of the time, but since post patch, thats out the window, I dont bother with Sacred flame (who the heck has time to cast 3 SF's around! ) Bots works well, its a one hit, then forget , move, move , move. SB used to work well, but as people continue to gear up, I see SB barely working, chains always works well , in terms of damage and radius. DL is useless, (not that its not a powerful encounter, it is, but its so slow with such a small radius window, you will always have a hard time hitting poeple.
But thats pvp, and right now DCs in PVP are pretty limited in thier role and rotations, you can bring whatever you want, but its going to be worthless =P .
OH also, you do not have to do those daily dungeons solo! Get someone to tag along (war makers or camp or whatever it was called was a laggy nightmare for me, way faster with someone else) Even now I will tag along with peeps, I prefer one or two more, not the 5 just becuase it takes to long, but doing those solo dungeons with 2 or 3 makes it a breeze.
Im going to check on test server but going by the numbers it appears BtS and Forge give more single target damage than Chains. BUT I am very interested to check that out.
I thought they took out the extra AP gain that sunburst gave. Seems to be less AP than when I started.
Thanks for the info.
Chains is not really a single-target spell (few our our encounters are, to be honest) but it's still useful for solo boss encounters just because they usually start out with "boss + a bunch of squishies". One pop of chains, and it's just "boss". Plus I can never be bothered to switch powers round for different situations in solo stuff.
BotS basically shines against multiple targets if you're good at marking each target once, or (especially) if you're good enough to spam it onto a target till it crits, THEN move onto another target.
I'm not nearly twitchy enough for that (I'd go as far as to say I'm terrible at it), so SF for me.
No thanks, that was my old encoutner rotation. I melt others HP down much quicker using the new setup, PoD + DG + DL.
I'd like to note, that i use Punishing light alot. It just rocks. I usually use it just after i went through the roatition.
EDIT: PoD used on a target that others are targetting helps kil them quickly and give you loads of AP. usually three uses with kills will give enough AP, to use my daily powers.
Depends on your build and play style. I regularly see myself in top 3 in pvp, unless its against a good premade team.
I took the liberty of bolding the important qualifier
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
Chains may be an aoe spell but like many of our spells of this type it's damage is modified by the number of enemies it hits, making it just as good vs multiple targets as against a single target. TBH I don't think I have a spell except DL that hits as hard as chains does. I've crit for 18k with chains against a one of those DR bosses, had divine DG and HG up on him at the time
I've got to say that now that I've specced AC for pvp puroses I totally miss my BotS for solo content. I notice the diference a lot, also I was used to just dotting up all the squishies, keep having to stop doing that now because I'm just throwing ASeal on them for no real reason.
Chains' damage potential decreases with the number of targets. Naturally you will hit a single target harder than five in this case. It's an asinine mechanic, but it's been that way for a long time, sadly.
BotS is great, and it was one of my favorite DO abilities for certain situations. I used Sacred Flame and BotS together for solo content, and it was an efficient combo. As AC I don't put points in Sacred Flame, so I settle for BoB/AS even for solo content, but that's fine; it's not like much of anything lives through an AoE rotation, and PL melts things quickly if want it done that much faster.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
AShield, Divine Glow, Daunting Light if im with really good geared people
AShield, Bastion, SB if im with a godawful pug, Bastion is feated
Coming in 4,5,6 isnt bad seeing as im in pug party vs. good premades. There are times, that I can still get in top 3 every once in while against those good premades.
This says lot to the DPS DC. It's the complete picture that you have to look at.
EDIT: PoD helps me accomplish the above.
I don't intend to disparage any success you're having, but placement on the scoreboard doesn't have an extremely strong correlation to how good one's build is or how good one is at playing it. For every time the player with 30-40+ kills is leading the chart, there's a 9k TR farming points by being allowed to back-cap over and over again.
As for DPS DC, I really wish that it worked better in PvP, but it plays too much like a less capable if somewhat tankier CW. However, if the opposing players somehow manage to ignore the DC and fail to avoid getting smacked by what are, for the most part, very telegraphed attacks, then they deserve what's coming to them.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
in the world!
Personally I think it's a great mechanic that chains has. If that spell hit everything for full dmg it would be way to powerful, and if it only hit for low dmg then it would be usless against anything but little squishy mobs. This way it's useable for both types of situations.
SF seems pretty much only useful for solo play as an AC but then I'm also not sure what other powers you could possibly need to take that would prevent you from aking SF. Personal preferance I supose.
I used to play Bts/Chains/FF and the only time I ever got a complaint was from a CW at low HP who I didn't heal up while we were standin garound at a cap point. the fact is if you play well and use your spells efectively most people have no reason to complain. Especially when you're winning matches
Oh i get players getting angry, the thing is, I just don't care. I only play PvP for the 3 dailies and/or if i need the artifact, other than that I couldnt care less for pvp. Also i get more glory and stay alive alot longer when dpsing than healing. GG pvp is an exception, i enjoy it.
So depending on the players attitude towrds me not healing them, if they are being an <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>$ i just tell them off in a not so nice manner, and ignore them. If they are just asking why am i not helaing, i tell them the truth (previously mentioned).
Honestly anyone trying to tell you, instead of giving advice on how to play your character, is an <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>$ plain and simple. If they want a healing DC let them get one before queueing. I have not healed teamate, in PvP, for over 8 months now. You play as you want to play, to hell with what others think.
...or it could just inflict full damage regardless of whether it's 1 or 5 targets. Its damage isn't even as high as Daunting Light's, so it's pretty safe to say that it wouldn't be too powerful. Having an encounter with only a 5-target hit cap start to depreciate in damage if even 1 additional target is in the AoE is silly when the base damage isn't actually that amazing.
In PvE it makes a great AoE filler and can crit decently in a good rotation. Also helps keep anything living from running around, which is nice.
In PvP it's so situational that it doesn't need any kind of reduced damage. It's the easiest thing in the world to see coming and to avoid unless Divinity is wasted on it. The damage is nothing great on geared people and the root is short-lived. Hell, you can dodge right through it, set it off, and avoid the CC and the damage both.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
Ive been told this week, I wasn't healing (which was the farthest thing from the truth, I cast a DV FF and the darn HR RAN AWAY from his heals, it isn't my fault.
Ive been told to STAY at 2 only, even though I feel like movement and pressing teams home cap is more important, when we did that match we lost 2 to 1, with me dying 14 times, in what was just a suicide mission each time, DCs cannot keep 2 vs 3 or 4 anymore. But I did it for the entire match, so I could prove a point to the morans who think its going to happen. I tried to explain nicely what the DC changes were and how it effects the game. (basically told them we are totally gimped and I CANNOT not skirt around and keep myself up any longer against 2-4 people)
IVE been on winning matches where we completely dominated and STILL got complaints that I didn't heal someone.
It boils down that people want to have divine HW cast on them, I pretty much refuse to slot it regularly at this point.
Im doing most matches DG, FF, Ashield with BoTS and Aseal. Sometimes I will change it up, but I feel this is the best mix for me to survive and contribute.
Then again I could probably pick any stupid rotation in the world and be just as effective.. I still think playing the DC right now is akin to bashing your head into a brick wall, just for the fun of it.
Well I'd love it if I could hit 5 mobs for the max amount of dmg each. It wouldn't matter that much for dungeoning, agreed, seeing as how CW spells work etc. But for solo/question stuff it would probably be way to powerful. I'd just group up a bunch of tough opponent (imagine cyclops commander) something like that and if I hit them with a chains and it crit I'd insta kill all 5 of them.
I think the only time I've used chains for a dungeon is when doing draco with 2 CW's. The additional mob control after a sing seems to make the diference.
Even though the spell is not amazing in PVP I think you may somewhat undervalue it's usefulness. The aoe activation area being so large means that you can often times grab every single enemy at the cap point your fighting at. Every disables/stuned/rooted enemy in pvp is valuable now so that you can dps them or heal or reset spells/stamina to avoid your enemies next rotation. A lot of times that small amount of time that the enemies are rooted is enough to dps one down. I've gotten people at full HP with chains and that can be enough for my allies to get ahold of them and kill them. It also has a pretty short CD and can act as a nice finishing move on people. The main problem is not having enough ecounter space to slot it and that if one person seems to resist it everybody does, although I honestly didn't have this happen that often. And yes it's possible to activate it and then shift out of it which can be anoying, but more so in 1 v 1 situations.