So I'm thinking of making a Cleric is it worth it?

calailen · January 2014

Okay so I've tried the other classes and the order of class that best suits me is as follows:

Ranger
Control Wizard
Trickster Rogue
Guardian Fighter
Great Weapon Fighter

And to be honest, for me, they really are in order of sluggishness and i can't stand the whole sluggishness i like to be fast and evading, etc.

Now I've tried Cleric and it seems to be between Ranger and Control Wizard for me in regards to how i like to play but is it worth leveling up a ceric? I was a lvl90 Cleric on Perfect World and i did pretty well but Clerics, especially on that game, are seen as an asset and not really a player which kinda sucks to be honest. On that game it feels like you're just standing in the background healing whilst everybody else is kicking ***.

I have noticed a difference in tactics so far but i don't want to be seen as an object that just stands there healing people, I'd like to feel that i was just as important as the other team members.

So is it possible for Clerics to deal considerable damage as well as heal or do they just have the potential to defend themselves from aggro?

Tell me why you think the Cleric on this game is a good class to be so that i can weigh out the pro's and con's.

Also is it okay to go Half-Elf or should i go Dwarf/Halfling as i read somewhere else?

Thank you!

shadow5930 · January 2014

Depends on if you want to PVP only, or doing other things for race. Halfling/dwarf is good for PVP and PVE, other things don't have the racial those do.

In NW, the cleric doesn't just sit back and play wack-a-mole with health bars. The way to gain divinity is to cause damage. To fight. The cleric can easily be the tank, especially with astral shield. They have very solid damage output, a good DoT spec is with forgemaster fire, break the spirit, brand of the sun. you put astral seal on it and it's all healing back to you as a bonus. If FF is done in divine mode, then it'll heal you and allies too.

I've only played DO spec, so I can't really talk about the new spec. I've read plenty where the new encounter can be a life saver of instant immunity for spike damage coming in. In the end, DC is considered one of the most valuable characters for dungeon runs and PVP.

calailen · January 2014

In all games such as these I've only ever been interested in PvE but i suppose, in the future, i may dabble in the whole PvP thing I'm just afraid that I'm going to build my Cleric (or/and Ranger) wrong, putting "feat" points in the wrong places and such.

I do always read what the feats do and also the skills but I've made the mistake of being wrong in such cases in the past so i don't want to level up a cleric and get it wrong you know?

Thankfully in the case that i was wrong i had somebody to guide me in the game. My mistake is that i wanted to try to make a hybrid so to say, a cleric that was tough, could handle themselves in a fight but also a good healer.

I really want to do good in this game, i haven't been this into a MMPORG in a very long time because, like a lot of players, I'm picky on which ones are good and which are just a grind-fest.

I've played up to level 15 about 7 times now on the various classes because i want to "knuckle down" on the classes that i will excel at playing if you know what i mean? Having said that i still don't really get too bored doing the same quests over and over but hey i guess that say's a lot about this game.

halrloprillalar · January 2014

if you roll a cleric you will be expected to heal... likely never really dps.

That being said, good clerics are crucial to a successful pve or pvp group. Healing in this game is very different than those *other* MMOs.

If you want to pew pew pew, I recommend HR, CW or GWF. TR or GWF if you want to pvp.

slushpsycho · January 2014

It sort of takes a different mentality to play this class imo

But nothing too hard if you just wanna be average with it, if you wanna be a mean DC you gonna need to do lots of work.

shadow5930 · January 2014

... I heal by pew pew pewing... >.>

Astral Seal, an at-will you get, heals anyone who hits the target. If you crit hit with it, they get crit healed.
Astral Shield is a targeted DR boost and in divine mode, heals. It is the main heal and once you have it, it can be your only heal you put on your bar.
Forgemaster flame when in divine mode, does more damage than normal mode AND heals.
Sacred Flame not only does damage but gives all characters around the target temp HP (which other classes get dmg boosts if they have temp hps) so is a sorta heal.

it's been said in another thread that DC's aren't main healers in NW. They're mitigation. Your job is to reduce the damage and help them recover. It's a very active job that requires you attacking just as much as the rest of your group.

When I leveled up my DC, I did use healing word, until I got Bastion of Health. I used Bastion until I got shield. I play a DPS cleric and I don't have people die, when I do dungeons. My best advice to you is do *NOT* at all, what so ever, if I can emphasis this any more possible I would, play the DC like you would a healer in other MMOs. They are a fighting type that has a side effect of healing.

... if you want more specifics, then I also highly recommend reading the guides.

calailen · January 2014

shadow5930 wrote: »

... I heal by pew pew pewing... >.>

Astral Seal, an at-will you get, heals anyone who hits the target. If you crit hit with it, they get crit healed.
Astral Shield is a targeted DR boost and in divine mode, heals. It is the main heal and once you have it, it can be your only heal you put on your bar.
Forgemaster flame when in divine mode, does more damage than normal mode AND heals.
Sacred Flame not only does damage but gives all characters around the target temp HP (which other classes get dmg boosts if they have temp hps) so is a sorta heal.

it's been said in another thread that DC's aren't main healers in NW. They're mitigation. Your job is to reduce the damage and help them recover. It's a very active job that requires you attacking just as much as the rest of your group.

When I leveled up my DC, I did use healing word, until I got Bastion of Health. I used Bastion until I got shield. I play a DPS cleric and I don't have people die, when I do dungeons. My best advice to you is do *NOT* at all, what so ever, if I can emphasis this any more possible I would, play the DC like you would a healer in other MMOs. They are a fighting type that has a side effect of healing.

... if you want more specifics, then I also highly recommend reading the guides.

Sounds like, well, sound advice. I did do a bit of reading so i am already in the mentality that i shouldn't approach this as i would in another MMO but i suppose I'll see where i get xD

abell39 · January 2014

My main is a half-elf Divine Oracle hybrid-build (i.e. focus on damage/crit with heroic feats and healz/divinity with paragon feats) crit-stacking DC. It's taken me months to figure out how to fine-tune her build to make it work, but the way I've got it now, she holds her own as dps when soloing or replacing a dps in parties, while also being effective at healing in parties when she needs to play the dedicated healer role. It helps that a lot of our damage spells heal and/or buff allies, and if you stack crit then you can deal critical damage and critical heals.

So you can be both dps and healz, but it's very, very difficult to do it effectively, and you have to change your strategy based on the party's needs. To me, though, that's the most rewarding part of playing a DC -- you have to be vigilant and adaptable in watching your party, but it's a very engaged playstyle even if you're just healing. You're always in the middle of the action.

morsitans · January 2014

It's...dynamic. This is not "sit, click green bars when they turn red" healing, you have to be constantly aware of positioning, where the team is, WHAT the team is doing, and what's likely to happen in the next few seconds.

On the plus side, you also get to DICTATE a lot of what the team will be doing, because you're the one putting down the circles.

Long story short, levelling is quick (relatively speaking) so give it a try.

masterjewstar · January 2014

Also if FF crits on divinity all heals from it will also crit as well leading to around 3k every second to all allies near the target and it slows them so they won't get away so easily; and the damage over time spells are all amazing it looks like they don't hit hard but trust me they do. Over time I've crit bosses for 12k with just brand of the sun.

Add two or three more dots and you can really mess something up and build divinity.

diabloadsit · January 2014

Yeah DC in this game is HUGE. If you can become a half Decent DC you will have no problems getting into PvE runs. DC is number 1 sought after class when the DD ball drops.
In this class you have 2 ways you can go. PURE 100% heal or you can go Good heals with good DPS.
If you go PURE 100% heals Stack Recovery and Power to the max.
My DC has 7500 Power and 4500 Recovery and 2k Defense. 1k Regen and 1500 Life steal(dont ask lol) only 2500 Crit though with like only 400 Arm Pen
my DPS is not there but I heal like a HAMSTER.
If you spec right I have seen good Crit builds also. But with a Crit build you have to stack some Arm Pen to make it work properly which for DC is hard to do. Stacking Arm Pen is going to take away from your Recovery stat.
I can throw down a AS and keep it down with a 5 sec delay. and Hallowed Ground I can usually have only a 5-10 sec delay on each one.
Remember you gain AP from damage AND from Heals so the harder you either DPS or you Heal the more AP you can.

I would make a DC if I were you. If you ever have issues getting into a dungeon on one class. Log your DC if you dont 100% suck you WILL get into a group.

morsitans · January 2014

Why would you need arpen to get the most out of a crit build? Crits are great in any context. Heals can crit (not AShield heals, annoyingly, but still) and repurp soul heals are a really handy staple. All stacking arpen does is make repurp heals marginally larger.

Honestly, I think the whole 'crit build' idea is silly anyway: all builds should get repurpose soul (because it's a no-brainer) and all builds should get a decent amount of crit just by being level 60 and wearing gear. Sure, if you massively stack crit you could push a 30% crit rate up to maybe 40%, but there's no real need (plus in a party you'll often have a rogue boosting crit anyway, plus linked spirit stat buffs).

Similarly, stacking recovery runs into diminishing returns pretty fast. I've got like 3k recovery and my AS downtime is about 4 seconds. If I boosted it to 4.5k recovery downtime would...still be about 4 seconds.

I have nothing even close to the power, recovery, arpen or lifesteal of the dude above (nice stats btw, dude above), but solo content becomes a faceroll beyond about 10k GS, and in dungeons you're not really there to put out the deeps anyway: I can pew pew with daunting light space lazors and hit 5 dudes for like 20k each, or I can pew pew with divine glow and hit 5 dudes for 5k each, stick a chunky defense debuff on them AND boost the damage output of everyone else on my team (all of whom are much better at dealing damage anyway).

But yeah, DCs are always in demand, and as long as you're not entirely selfish in your playstyle you'll be awesome.

vorphied · January 2014

diabloadsit wrote: »

Yeah DC in this game is HUGE. If you can become a half Decent DC you will have no problems getting into PvE runs. DC is number 1 sought after class when the DD ball drops.
In this class you have 2 ways you can go. PURE 100% heal or you can go Good heals with good DPS.
If you go PURE 100% heals Stack Recovery and Power to the max.
My DC has 7500 Power and 4500 Recovery and 2k Defense. 1k Regen and 1500 Life steal(dont ask lol) only 2500 Crit though with like only 400 Arm Pen
my DPS is not there but I heal like a HAMSTER.
If you spec right I have seen good Crit builds also. But with a Crit build you have to stack some Arm Pen to make it work properly which for DC is hard to do. Stacking Arm Pen is going to take away from your Recovery stat.
I can throw down a AS and keep it down with a 5 sec delay. and Hallowed Ground I can usually have only a 5-10 sec delay on each one.
Remember you gain AP from damage AND from Heals so the harder you either DPS or you Heal the more AP you can.

I would make a DC if I were you. If you ever have issues getting into a dungeon on one class. Log your DC if you dont 100% suck you WILL get into a group.

Notes for the benefit of the OP:

- Recovery far beyond 3k is an unrewarding investment due to diminishing returns. Points better allocated elsewhere.

- Armor Penetration is of virtually no use to a support-focused DC.

- Life Steal is of virtually no use to a support-focused DC.

lazuree · January 2014

You can make a dps dc if you'd really like. At this point, my guild runs CN without a DC so while it's nice to have heals you are not restricted to just healing. I prefer to build hybrid depending on the situation. I usually take healing word/astral shield but then I can add on any skill I like based off the fight at hand

1) chains-if adds are flying at your allies dealing too much dmg
2) divine glow- debuff adds
3) searing light- kill many of the small adds ( not hit cap)
4) daunting light-help kill tankier adds\
5) FF- more healing
6) sunburst- knockoffs/more divinity gain
7) bastion- more healing
etc...

Dc's are unique in this game because each tree is quite unique and they promote the dps dc with those crit skills
This is why I'm making a third dc... just to dps:)

elewyndyl · January 2014

shadow5930 wrote: »

Depends on if you want to PVP only, or doing other things for race. Halfling/dwarf is good for PVP and PVE, other things don't have the racial those do.

In NW, the cleric doesn't just sit back and play wack-a-mole with health bars. The way to gain divinity is to cause damage. To fight. The cleric can easily be the tank, especially with astral shield.

Sigh. Halfling and Dwarf are NOT the best races for DC. Only if you want to roll pure PvP build the so called tank Cleric that wants to have CON and DEX maxed they might be best races but everyone knows they suck in Dungeons.

Lol I met a 14k halfing tank Cleric with CON maxed and that Cleric was miserable as healer in Dungeons and we had wipe in Gauntlgrym Dungeon.

I would say Human with 3 extra featpoints is one of the best races if you want to create Hybrid PvE/PvP Cleric that is very good both in PvE and PvP. Tanky is good to be at least slightly though even for those builds and for example my 2 Hybrid Clerics use very defensive rings as gear so yes it is good idea to have solid defense in PvP.

If going ultra offensive then HalfOrc race might give some good offensive bonus but that build is not healer build and it is very offensive Cleric.

vorphied · January 2014

elewyndyl wrote: »

Sigh. Halfling and Dwarf are NOT the best races for DC. Only if you want to roll pure PvP build the so called tank Cleric that wants to have CON and DEX maxed they might be best races but everyone knows they suck in Dungeons.

Lol I met a 14k halfing tank Cleric with CON maxed and that Cleric was miserable as healer in Dungeons and we had wipe in Gauntlgrym Dungeon.

I would say Human with 3 extra featpoints is one of the best races if you want to create Hybrid PvE/PvP Cleric that is very good both in PvE and PvP. Tanky is good to be at least slightly though even for those builds and for example my 2 Hybrid Clerics use very defensive rings as gear so yes it is good idea to have solid defense in PvP.

If going ultra offensive then HalfOrc race might give some good offensive bonus but that build is not healer build and it is very offensive Cleric.

From a min/max perspective, Human would be one of the least desirable races IMO since there are a lot of HAMSTER feats in the DC heroic tree, unfortunately reducing the value of the 3 bonus feat points. My personal preference for PvE/PvP hybrid DC is Half-Elf since the racial bonuses are appropriate for all play styles.

Another unfortunate truth (as I see it, anyway) is that the game provides minimal incentive to play a DPS-focused DC. They aren't outstanding in any particular way compared to other class/build combos, and the debuff/buff support can be provided equally well by any build of DC. This is why DPS-specialized DCs end up in the niche class ghetto. When was the last time anyone ever advertised "LF1M DC (DPS PLZ!)". It's a fun and uncommon build, but it's sadly unrewarding in the larger context of the game.

jazzfong · January 2014

vorphied wrote: »

From a min/max perspective, Human would be one of the least desirable races IMO since there are a lot of HAMSTER feats in the DC heroic tree, unfortunately reducing the value of the 3 bonus feat points. My personal preference for PvE/PvP hybrid DC is Half-Elf since the racial bonuses are appropriate for all play styles.

Another unfortunate truth (as I see it, anyway) is that the game provides minimal incentive to play a DPS-focused DC. They aren't outstanding in any particular way compared to other class/build combos, and the debuff/buff support can be provided equally well by any build of DC. This is why DPS-specialized DCs end up in the niche class ghetto. When was the last time anyone ever advertised "LF1M DC (DPS PLZ!)". It's a fun and uncommon build, but it's sadly unrewarding in the larger context of the game.

Correct. Human is one of least suitable race for a cleric, the extra 3 feat point is useless as we don't have any more must to have heroic feat. Thats why i got to delete both my human pvp and pve cleric to free up character slot for creating my sun elf cleric. Dwarf and halfing have the best defensive setup among all races as they help to decrease the amount of cc on u. Sun elf and half elf are hybrid while orc and tiefling are offessive.

elewyndyl · January 2014

jazzfong wrote: »

Correct. Human is one of least suitable race for a cleric, the extra 3 feat point is useless as we don't have any more must to have heroic feat. Thats why i got to delete both my human pvp and pve cleric to free up character slot for creating my sun elf cleric. Dwarf and halfing have the best defensive setup among all races as they help to decrease the amount of cc on u. Sun elf and half elf are hybrid while orc and tiefling are offessive.

Lol. I have 2 human Clerics and enjoy them. Human is not least effective no way. As of choosing Feats it depends what you smartly choose not going to tell my choices, but there are better feats and also less good feats.

Human is one of the best races for Hybrid Cleric PvE/PvP. Enough said.

Elf best for Hybrid? Elf lovers indeed lol. I got one Elf as Ranger though.

Seriously this thread is becoming hilarious with ppl saying what race is best. I am a powerplayer. Proof that you are not powerplayer is that you DELETE character slots lol so you have room for new characters. I got 6 character slots and I am 100% free player.

I bought my third artifact(blue) for my main Human Devoted Cleric for roughly 1000 000 AD. What kind of ultra casual player thinks that 2 character slots are expensive? Even my casual real life friend that is 11k+ Wizard thinks that character slots are not expensive though he is saving so he can buy fastest mount.

Anyway difference is really small at the end of the day. If you like pointy ears or a dwarf beard then go for it.

vorphied · January 2014

elewyndyl wrote: »

Lol. I have 2 human Clerics and enjoy them. Human is not least effective no way. As of choosing Feats it depends what you smartly choose not going to tell my choices, but there are better feats and also less good feats.

Human is one of the best races for Hybrid Cleric PvE/PvP. Enough said.

Elf best for Hybrid? Elf lovers indeed lol. I got one Elf as Ranger though.

Seriously this thread is becoming hilarious with ppl saying what race is best. I am a powerplayer. Proof that you are not powerplayer is that you DELETE character slots lol so you have room for new characters. I got 6 character slots and I am 100% free player.

I bought my third artifact for my main Human Devoted Cleric for roughly 1000 000 AD. What kind of ultra casual player thinks that 2 character slots are expensive? Even my casual real life friend that is 11k+ Wizard thinks that character slots are not expensive though he is saving so he can buy fastest mount.

Anyway difference is really small at the end of the day. If you like pointy ears or a dwarf beard then go for it.

1. There are no secret feats. We all know which are viable and which are always poor choices, and there is a small pool of the former. If, for example, you compare the DC heroic tree to the CW heroic tree, it's easy to see where a human CW would benefit more from their bonus points than a human DC would. That's not to say that human DCs don't do perfectly fine; there is just less incentive to choose that race over most others.

2. You keep stating that you are "100% free player" as if it were supposed to mean something. At the risk of sounding rude, no one besides Cryptic/PWE cares whether you purchase Zen or not, or for what purpose. There is no achievement for not financially supporting the game.

3. Using varied font colors does not make your opinions more correct than anyone else's. Also wondering what "powerplayer" or character slots have to do with this discussion. If jazzfong doesn't want to get more character slots, who cares?

jazzfong · January 2014

Well, maybe i missed something.
Human: 9% more divinity gain with 3/3 cleanse. 3% more defence.
Half elf: 1% deflect, 1% crit sev, 1% gold gain. one more point in ability score, last time is random (currently restricted to int, tested in preview)
Sun elf: 2% AP gain, 10% cc resist. Best race to spam daily, highest recharge among races.
Halfling: 3% deflect, 10% cc immunity. Hardest to stack over 25% (deflect) and grant cc immunity.
Half-Orc: 5% running speed in combat, 5% crit severity.

So you mean your divinity management is so poor until u need 9% more divinity + 3/3 cleanse?? Why sun elf and half elf isn't hybrid? Last time u can make con,dex,int build with half elf, having slight help in crit sev and deflect while being a daily spammer with sun elf, and sun elf even got cc immunity!! He is not tanker class!!

Yeah, i am bad. If you want to prove you are right, jump in pvp and let all folks know your name. I will know it since i pug often. Then i will get the message human is the best one among the others. Thank you, but i need some prove from you.

ghoulz66 · January 2014

I've seen my drow's darkfire trigger on my teammates, but I don't care. Play the way you want.

elewyndyl · January 2014

vorphied wrote: »

2. You keep stating that you are "100% free player" as if it were supposed to mean something. At the risk of sounding rude, no one besides Cryptic/PWE cares whether you purchase Zen or not, or for what purpose. There is no achievement for not financially supporting the game.

"There is no achievement for not supporting financially supporting the game" on that I agree.

However getting so good economy as free player to buy the third(the first 2 there is no need to buy them) Artifact(bought blue) for 1000 000 AD is an achievment that most free casual players can dream about. My best enchant is Rank 9 and that is pretty high considering that Rank 10 seems impossible for many free players. Finally using colors is not forbidden.

Those achievements above mentioned is only for my main character. My two other max level characters are not in the same league considering gearscore simply said though any of them can do T2 Dungeons fine.

jazzfong wrote: »

Well, maybe i missed something.
Human: 9% more divinity gain with 3/3 cleanse. 3% more defence.
Half elf: 1% deflect, 1% crit sev, 1% gold gain. one more point in ability score, last time is random (currently restricted to int, tested in preview)
Sun elf: 2% AP gain, 10% cc resist. Best race to spam daily, highest recharge among races.
Halfling: 3% deflect, 10% cc immunity. Hardest to stack over 25% (deflect) and grant cc immunity.
Half-Orc: 5% running speed in combat, 5% crit severity.

So you mean your divinity management is so poor until u need 9% more divinity + 3/3 cleanse?? Why sun elf and half elf isn't hybrid? Last time u can make con,dex,int build with half elf, having slight help in crit sev and deflect while being a daily spammer with sun elf, and sun elf even got cc immunity!! He is not tanker class!!

Yeah, i am bad. If you want to prove you are right, jump in pvp and let all folks know your name. I will know it since i pug often. Then i will get the message human is the best one among the others. Thank you, but i need some prove from you.

First of I don't post my character names on boards to get hundreds of challenges from different players wanting to prove something. That will never happen period.

Second of all I know perfectly well where my 2 Human Clerics stand in PUGS PvP. My HalfOrc Trickster Rogue does better PvP then my Cleric with less gearscore that has almost exact same gearscore that my Trickster Rogue and my Cleric with less gs is slightly more PvE build and does fine in Dungeons. At one point both my 2 Clerics had same gearscore and yes it is difference in builds the one I chose to make my main did better in PvP got more kills etc.

I am not so keen on this Divinity/Cleanse as you mention and I see that you think that is the only reason to pick Human and that was not the reason I picked human.

As a retrospect maybe after some changes I have put less choices in Divinity gain in Paragon paths since I really do not need that much Divinity gain that some builds advertise. The human has 3 extra feats and depending on how you want to put them is still up to the player.

Stat ability is great for potential Elves and I must admit my Cleric that does better in PvP has not so high recharge to Action points or Encounter spells from attributes so he does maxmimze the feats that has to do with them and there are nice silver enchants that are actually among cheapest enchants on Auction House. I don't say I have no limits to budget and none of my characters have rank 10 enchants. My two other characters thar are alts have really not so high enchants only my main goes for the "Elite" currently. My other Cleric that has quite different stats(attributes WIS, STR and CHA).

Ok maybe I was a bit rude and I apologize for that. Finally to all players out there I have never said it is wrong to buy with real money. My casual real life friend is 11k+ Wizard and he has slow horse bought with gold. He does very slowly try to earn the fastest horse for 2500 ZEN. He has said that either he will earn it during this year or buy it with real money. I have said that whatever he decides to do I will of course respect that decision.

I respect all player regardless of they are free players, paying players, casual or hardcore. Currently I am hardcore player, but that changes depending on time of year I like to see big sports event for example World Cup football that is held in summer. I like also to be outside when it is warm and nice, but this time of year it is very cold in my country though we have nice public gyms and swimming pools inside houses.

So I'm thinking of making a Cleric is it worth it?

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