lucidproph3cyMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited January 2014
Fully agree. I used to pay monthly to support the game. However I have gone completely free 2 play since July and refuse to contribute to a developer team that does not plan things according to the community base. There was an uproar about blue items in malabog's and they still put blue items in VT. Yeah you can buy the artifact but some rational people won't do that. A person that spends 15$ a month probably would never see Val's crown.
I can see where your coming from it is even more frustrating for an artifact you can't buy and must grind with impossible drop rates. No one likes to grind impossible drop rates. If they implemented a rewards that after thirty days of additional daily's you can buy it with scripts that would be a fantastic idea. But you still run into horrible drop rates on everything else and saying you can buy it on the AH is not a suitable answer. They need to fix these drop rates before they alienate players. If they changes their model to make money off of additional features like race tokens, fashion items, and luxuries and not actual in game content I would be more obliged to spend money.
Possibly a large part of the problem is they've started off with a fairly lenient gearing/levelling curve: it's not hard to get pretty decent loot in this game, and it's incredibly easy to get to level cap.
This creates the expectation that EVERYTHING should be easy to get, which if you think about it, kinda defeats a major point of playing.
If one could go from "HOW I KILL MONSTRAE?"" to "full T2.5 epics with legendary artifacts in every slot and R10s everywhere" in a short period of time, it would kill the game for dedicated players.
As it is, you can get good gear fairly easily (favouring casual players) and get amazing gear if you work at it (or maybe throw a little cash at cryptic), which rewards dedicated players. It's not actually a bad balance, and as a mostly casual player, I really like that I can even SEE endgame content, even if I inevitably suck at it.
Plus you get one artifact for free, one from just doing PvP a lot (which I am still...slowwwly...working on, because gah: PvP), and you only HAVE three artifact slots, so making you work a bit for a third is not, to my mind, terribly unfair.
Mind you, I'm tempted to buy the shop guy just because it's cheap and also: ZOMG SHOP GUY
Fact is you don't win a legendary item, but a green you need to upgrade, if it's not really diffcult to upragde it to epic, it's very long to upgrade it to legendary, about 3.8 millions total RP and i don't talk about mark of potency and the coal you need, so no people don't be quickly geared with legendary artifact it's not a valid argument except if you use som cash or some diamonds to do it.
There are others way, they can put the shard to a seller for a big number of shadowmantle seals as a BOP item, so they keep the possibility to drop one BOE and people still need to run this place a lot if they want the BOP version.
I have no problem to farm but if i don't see a shard after 5000 shadowmantle seals something is wrong about the drop rate.
Possibly a large part of the problem is they've started off with a fairly lenient gearing/levelling curve: it's not hard to get pretty decent loot in this game, and it's incredibly easy to get to level cap.
This creates the expectation that EVERYTHING should be easy to get, which if you think about it, kinda defeats a major point of playing.[/SIZE]
Lol yep all these complaints about the shard of valindra not being handed out by the boss once every 3 runs are quite laughable. Getting artifacts is easy. The most common ones are cheap. There are super rare ones and extremely rare loots are a part of every MMO. So, keep farming or buy it, that's all.
Module 3 should also give us some new options the way some people here seem to enjoy - the kind of stuff you need 3 days at snail pace to farm, get to epic selling one T2 gloves item, and then make you say "what now cryptic i'm so bored and have nothing to do plz add content". Yes, you read it: new pvp artefacts.
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degraafinationMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited January 2014
Shard of Valindra is whatever to me. I personally think the bonuses and stats are very weak, especially with Module 3 killing Life Steal and CC.
I wish Lanterns and Waters dropped more regularly from bosses. I'll take Greens all day, because they're the best way to level up the Artifact.
Possibly a large part of the problem is they've started off with a fairly lenient gearing/levelling curve: it's not hard to get pretty decent loot in this game, and it's incredibly easy to get to level cap.
This creates the expectation that EVERYTHING should be easy to get, which if you think about it, kinda defeats a major point of playing.
If one could go from "HOW I KILL MONSTRAE?"" to "full T2.5 epics with legendary artifacts in every slot and R10s everywhere" in a short period of time, it would kill the game for dedicated players.
As it is, you can get good gear fairly easily (favouring casual players) and get amazing gear if you work at it (or maybe throw a little cash at cryptic), which rewards dedicated players. It's not actually a bad balance, and as a mostly casual player, I really like that I can even SEE endgame content, even if I inevitably suck at it.
Plus you get one artifact for free, one from just doing PvP a lot (which I am still...slowwwly...working on, because gah: PvP), and you only HAVE three artifact slots, so making you work a bit for a third is not, to my mind, terribly unfair.
Mind you, I'm tempted to buy the shop guy just because it's cheap and also: ZOMG SHOP GUY
You are simply confusing difficult and time consuming, random AND completely out of your control.
Defeating Epic Dread Vault is difficult. You need good coordination, gear and skill (that, or a strategy that I haven't tried :P).
Levelling an artifact is time consuming. You need to work your way, slowly feeding it with enchants, peridots, etc, etc.
Getting the artifact is simply random, and bad design. You defeat some monster that you can kill by staring at them, roll a dice and hope for the best. You can get it at your first try (~0 effort), or not get it after 200 (0 reward). This is simply bad design, and there is no excuse.
...uh..and you're possibly misunderstanding what "dedication" means. Running an easy dungeon, daily, for stuff you are going to run it for ANYWAY, plus a small chance of also getting an artifact FOR FREEE ZOMG?
Yeah, that's hard hard work, and should totally pay out the maximum reward inside of a week, coz man, phew. That phantasmal fortress is tough, too.
.....
Also, statistics. Let's say a 1% drop rate for the eye of lathandar, and assume we have 1000 players with purp gauntlets doing the DR daily (which might actually be a fairly generous assessment of the NW playerbase, but hey), after 100 days only 366 of those players will NOT have their totally free artifact totally for free. After 200 days? 134. After a year? 25 people.
Sure, it sucks if you're one of the 25, but remember that this is something you get for free, for doing something you were going to do anyway. And that RNG is random.
(incidentally, even if the droprate is 10-fold lower, after a year 30% peeps will have the artifact)
Uauh, man, I am not even going to argue with you. The sheer amount of cluelessness about game design you just showed above is, I must say, flabergasting. And the way you just showed it to the whole forum is hillarious. Keep on "getting your totally free artifact totally for free in a dungeon you were going to do anyway" (Because peridots are awesome, ain't them? ).
I am genuinely confused as to what you could possibly be getting at.
(I also wonder how many games you've designed, and how many of those -if it's a non-zero figure in the first place- are f2p microtransaction model RPGs, but hey)
So. Question. Do you run the daily dread vault dungeons?
You always get a purple mark for your artifact, you often get a purple piece of crappy armour for salvage, and you always get to loot like 3-5 nodes (unless you get a group together for the dungeon).
That's guaranteed. And it takes like 5-10 minutes (two, if you group it, for some reason).
Also, if you have a gauntlet, you can be pretty sure of getting 2 peridots (yay), some r4s, an aquamarine, or maybe, one day, maybe, an artifact.
Again, for 5-10 mins a day.
The only thing that stands betwen you and that artifact is time. And if the dread ring and sharandar campaigns haven't made this painfully, painfully obvious to you yet, timegating is the new thing for neverwinter. Want to progress in the campaign? COME BACK TOMORROW
This is because they're trying, desperately, to stop people getting bored and leaving, while not massively impeding the progress of newer players. I could be an 18k GS monster of a GWF who blasts through everything in seconds, or a newbie freshly-dinged 60 DC in greens who still thinks soloing with a bar of heals is a smart move and takes an hour to do one solo dungeon...it doesn't matter, because once I'm done: COME BACK TOMORROW.
Is it artificially clamping progress? Of course! Is this therefore an absolute fubar ZOMG U KILL GAEM fail on cryptic's part? Well, I don't think so, but if you do, what with your spectacular knowledge and experience of game design apparently, then vote with your feet, and leave. That's fine too.
....though you would have to admit to yourself you left the game becaue the drop rate of a freebie bonus loot reward was too low, which would be a little bit fussy, don't you think?
MC artifact did 42 runs after releasing mod2 and nothing. Guildmate did 4 runs and get it.
Now I know it gives you 5% extra stats (130-140 stats) from companion at yellow so its not that good to be cared so much about.
Eye of Lathander artifact: already got it on one character around in the middle of January. But its not that good for my CW so stored in bank.
Drop rate this game should be more open (perhaps with a percentage in the tooltip) so that we can monitor and decide what to pick! I finished this last CTA over 300 times and **** companion appears, is very frustrating and ridiculous having to stand repedindo, repeating and repeating the same thing, it ends up with the game and the desire to play! Then as Devs please turn this game into something so tiring and frustrating or explicit let the chance of occurrence of a particular item so the theories end.
Low drop rate for a BOE item is fine. But they should include a BOP version you can buy for seals. Even if it's hundreds of seals it's something you can work towards.
I finished this last CTA over 300 times and **** companion appears, is very frustrating and ridiculous having to stand repedindo, repeating and repeating the same thing, it ends up with the game and the desire to play!
Honestly, I'd've checked the auction house. They were selling for 20-40k during the event, so you could pretty much just ask yourself where your personal time vs money cost:benefit ratio falls, and decide whether or not it was worth it. 40k AD isn't a trivial amount, but it's probably a lot better than driving yourself insane with repeated CTA runs.
I just got 2 pets in 2 consecutive CTA runs and gifted the second to a nice mage we had in the group who hadnt found any in more than 50 runs... seriously, complaining about rng is lame.
Honestly, I'd've checked the auction house. They were selling for 20-40k during the event, so you could pretty much just ask yourself where your personal time vs money cost:benefit ratio falls, and decide whether or not it was worth it. 40k AD isn't a trivial amount, but it's probably a lot better than driving yourself insane with repeated CTA runs.
Yeah I bought one and a good thing too , I ran it casually but consistently and never got one to drop , got lots of rank 5 brutal's and the quite frankly awesome dye packs so I'm not too bothered although having a character BoP version of the companion would be a nice addition to the CTA store in future for players who seem to have been removed from the RNG's Christmas card list like myself so we can just buy a bound one if all else fails -.-
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adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
edited January 2014
I just had the Eye of Lathander drop, after doing the instances pretty much every day. However, I didn't really want it - I have the Waters and the Raven Skull already - and was aiming for the Tayan book of the dead as my third artifact - would be the best option for my DC.
Hoping for improvements...
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lucidproph3cyMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited January 2014
Deleted duplicate post
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lucidproph3cyMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited January 2014
Well you know the drop rate is broken when it's more cost effect to farm CN use the ad to buy the artifact on the AH then to farm the dungeon to get it. Let's say I farmed VT 100 times with a 1% drop rate I "may" see it or I may not even see it at all then I have to role the dice with everyone in the party thus my effective chance to win it in 100 runs is .2% which is broken. Now let's say I do 2 runs a day which isn't bad for a casual player. It will take me a month an a half of farming for a .2% to get the artifact and that only if they are successful runs every time.
If I run CN and say my average payout is 50k which is low I will have 8 mil in 160 runs to buy the artifact and that is a guarantee. Yes I want to farm for my gear but I want realistic drops rates so I am not stuck to farming CN. This is especially true for every other artifact because they are cheaper than Val's crown.
Currently the drops rates seem like 1% artifact, 10% t2 chest, 19% blue <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and 70% t1 <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> in VT. This should not be drop rates in end game dungeons. I second the idea on using seals to buy a BoP artifact for malabog's, VT, and the use of scrolls for the eye of lath so there is at least a sure bet involved.
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degraafinationMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I just had the Eye of Lathander drop, after doing the instances pretty much every day. However, I didn't really want it - I have the Waters and the Raven Skull already - and was aiming for the Tayan book of the dead as my third artifact - would be the best option for my DC.
It's Merlin here from EoA, it was me that manage to get it from one of my chars. I consider myself to be very lucky to get one, I would expect the drop rate to be around 1%, or similar to obtaining a mount from lockboxes, or getting an artifact to drop from Valindra which I have killed numerous times and yet to see it drop.
I don't think there's anything wrong with the drop rate as it's meant to be rare, I do wish that it wasn't BoP, or at least Bind to Account as I now have 1 char with 4 artifacts while another only has 1. But that's the way it goes.
Why don't you think there is a problem with the drop rate?
Why bother putting them in the game if they are going to be that rare. There is a fine line between keeping things somewhat rare and virtually impossible to get. I mean he opened 40 coffers. That is more than most people will ever open (before moving on).
Comments
I can see where your coming from it is even more frustrating for an artifact you can't buy and must grind with impossible drop rates. No one likes to grind impossible drop rates. If they implemented a rewards that after thirty days of additional daily's you can buy it with scripts that would be a fantastic idea. But you still run into horrible drop rates on everything else and saying you can buy it on the AH is not a suitable answer. They need to fix these drop rates before they alienate players. If they changes their model to make money off of additional features like race tokens, fashion items, and luxuries and not actual in game content I would be more obliged to spend money.
This creates the expectation that EVERYTHING should be easy to get, which if you think about it, kinda defeats a major point of playing.
If one could go from "HOW I KILL MONSTRAE?"" to "full T2.5 epics with legendary artifacts in every slot and R10s everywhere" in a short period of time, it would kill the game for dedicated players.
As it is, you can get good gear fairly easily (favouring casual players) and get amazing gear if you work at it (or maybe throw a little cash at cryptic), which rewards dedicated players. It's not actually a bad balance, and as a mostly casual player, I really like that I can even SEE endgame content, even if I inevitably suck at it.
Plus you get one artifact for free, one from just doing PvP a lot (which I am still...slowwwly...working on, because gah: PvP), and you only HAVE three artifact slots, so making you work a bit for a third is not, to my mind, terribly unfair.
Mind you, I'm tempted to buy the shop guy just because it's cheap and also: ZOMG SHOP GUY
There are others way, they can put the shard to a seller for a big number of shadowmantle seals as a BOP item, so they keep the possibility to drop one BOE and people still need to run this place a lot if they want the BOP version.
I have no problem to farm but if i don't see a shard after 5000 shadowmantle seals something is wrong about the drop rate.
Lol yep all these complaints about the shard of valindra not being handed out by the boss once every 3 runs are quite laughable. Getting artifacts is easy. The most common ones are cheap. There are super rare ones and extremely rare loots are a part of every MMO. So, keep farming or buy it, that's all.
Module 3 should also give us some new options the way some people here seem to enjoy - the kind of stuff you need 3 days at snail pace to farm, get to epic selling one T2 gloves item, and then make you say "what now cryptic i'm so bored and have nothing to do plz add content". Yes, you read it: new pvp artefacts.
I wish Lanterns and Waters dropped more regularly from bosses. I'll take Greens all day, because they're the best way to level up the Artifact.
Join Essence of Aggression: PVP-ing Hard Since Beta!
You are simply confusing difficult and time consuming, random AND completely out of your control.
Defeating Epic Dread Vault is difficult. You need good coordination, gear and skill (that, or a strategy that I haven't tried :P).
Levelling an artifact is time consuming. You need to work your way, slowly feeding it with enchants, peridots, etc, etc.
Getting the artifact is simply random, and bad design. You defeat some monster that you can kill by staring at them, roll a dice and hope for the best. You can get it at your first try (~0 effort), or not get it after 200 (0 reward). This is simply bad design, and there is no excuse.
Yeah, that's hard hard work, and should totally pay out the maximum reward inside of a week, coz man, phew. That phantasmal fortress is tough, too.
.....
Also, statistics. Let's say a 1% drop rate for the eye of lathandar, and assume we have 1000 players with purp gauntlets doing the DR daily (which might actually be a fairly generous assessment of the NW playerbase, but hey), after 100 days only 366 of those players will NOT have their totally free artifact totally for free. After 200 days? 134. After a year? 25 people.
Sure, it sucks if you're one of the 25, but remember that this is something you get for free, for doing something you were going to do anyway. And that RNG is random.
(incidentally, even if the droprate is 10-fold lower, after a year 30% peeps will have the artifact)
No, seriously, what?
I am genuinely confused as to what you could possibly be getting at.
(I also wonder how many games you've designed, and how many of those -if it's a non-zero figure in the first place- are f2p microtransaction model RPGs, but hey)
So. Question. Do you run the daily dread vault dungeons?
You always get a purple mark for your artifact, you often get a purple piece of crappy armour for salvage, and you always get to loot like 3-5 nodes (unless you get a group together for the dungeon).
That's guaranteed. And it takes like 5-10 minutes (two, if you group it, for some reason).
Also, if you have a gauntlet, you can be pretty sure of getting 2 peridots (yay), some r4s, an aquamarine, or maybe, one day, maybe, an artifact.
Again, for 5-10 mins a day.
The only thing that stands betwen you and that artifact is time. And if the dread ring and sharandar campaigns haven't made this painfully, painfully obvious to you yet, timegating is the new thing for neverwinter. Want to progress in the campaign? COME BACK TOMORROW
This is because they're trying, desperately, to stop people getting bored and leaving, while not massively impeding the progress of newer players. I could be an 18k GS monster of a GWF who blasts through everything in seconds, or a newbie freshly-dinged 60 DC in greens who still thinks soloing with a bar of heals is a smart move and takes an hour to do one solo dungeon...it doesn't matter, because once I'm done: COME BACK TOMORROW.
Is it artificially clamping progress? Of course! Is this therefore an absolute fubar ZOMG U KILL GAEM fail on cryptic's part? Well, I don't think so, but if you do, what with your spectacular knowledge and experience of game design apparently, then vote with your feet, and leave. That's fine too.
....though you would have to admit to yourself you left the game becaue the drop rate of a freebie bonus loot reward was too low, which would be a little bit fussy, don't you think?
Now I know it gives you 5% extra stats (130-140 stats) from companion at yellow so its not that good to be cared so much about.
Eye of Lathander artifact: already got it on one character around in the middle of January. But its not that good for my CW so stored in bank.
Honestly, I'd've checked the auction house. They were selling for 20-40k during the event, so you could pretty much just ask yourself where your personal time vs money cost:benefit ratio falls, and decide whether or not it was worth it. 40k AD isn't a trivial amount, but it's probably a lot better than driving yourself insane with repeated CTA runs.
Yeah I bought one and a good thing too , I ran it casually but consistently and never got one to drop , got lots of rank 5 brutal's and the quite frankly awesome dye packs so I'm not too bothered although having a character BoP version of the companion would be a nice addition to the CTA store in future for players who seem to have been removed from the RNG's Christmas card list like myself so we can just buy a bound one if all else fails -.-
If I run CN and say my average payout is 50k which is low I will have 8 mil in 160 runs to buy the artifact and that is a guarantee. Yes I want to farm for my gear but I want realistic drops rates so I am not stuck to farming CN. This is especially true for every other artifact because they are cheaper than Val's crown.
Currently the drops rates seem like 1% artifact, 10% t2 chest, 19% blue <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and 70% t1 <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> in VT. This should not be drop rates in end game dungeons. I second the idea on using seals to buy a BoP artifact for malabog's, VT, and the use of scrolls for the eye of lath so there is at least a sure bet involved.
Use your Eye of Lath to upgrade your Waters.
That's my plan, if it ever drops.
Join Essence of Aggression: PVP-ing Hard Since Beta!
Why don't you think there is a problem with the drop rate?
Why bother putting them in the game if they are going to be that rare. There is a fine line between keeping things somewhat rare and virtually impossible to get. I mean he opened 40 coffers. That is more than most people will ever open (before moving on).