It's funny when I took a break from this game to wait for more content and bug fixes back in open beta, gwf's were useless in any circumstance. Now lol, they're useful and people are going nuts about it.
Ig by "Useful" you mean completely dominant, then yes they are useful. The team with the most GWF win every time.
So what am i supposed to do against a GWF then exactly? use /killme as soon as a GWF looks at me? By that token if i engage a GWF from 80 yards away i should be able to totally obliterate him flawlessly right?
What am i supposed to do when a GWF takes a point? Run away?
You made me think of Monty Python and the Holy Grail with that. "Run Away!"
Anyways, there are more classes than gwf, tr, and cw in the game. HR can cc gwf right now for example.
It's an act of justice that rogues and wizards heading for direct close quarter 1 on 1 combat with an equally equipped GWF now get splattered all over the wall... thats exactly the way it's meant to be imho
no wizard will want to close quarter a GWF. Too bad your cc immune makes it nigh impossible to stay at range. This whole 'my OP is justified cuz I'm melee' song has been the bane of class balance every game I play. If you're cc immune and wrecking face, you need to be taking double damage, imho.
no wizard will want to close quarter a GWF. Too bad your cc immune makes it nigh impossible to stay at range. This whole 'my OP is justified cuz I'm melee' song has been the bane of class balance every game I play. If you're cc immune and wrecking face, you need to be taking double damage, imho.
Well duh....you really think that when a CW starts opening up on us from 80 ft away we shouldn't have the ability to close the gap and put some pain on you? You just want a free kill? GTFO!
CW's damage burst is nowhere near that of a TR or GWF. By the time you get close, you might have a slight dent in your armor. I'm not saying take away the cc immune, I'm saying make it have an appreciable downside, instead of being the "I win" button in every encounter.
cws are so op in pve that all parties ask for them only... now you want them in pvp also? cant have everything
seems that its like that:
wiz = superb pve , medium pvp (not bad if hits from far and dodges)
gwf = medium pve , good pvp
tr = bad pve , superb pvp
dc = needed in both pvp and pve can turn a game around
gf = same as dc , if dressed good can own in pvp
hr = a bit worse than wiz in pve and a bit better in pvp
so dont whine... just choose
0
pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
cws are so op in pve that all parties ask for them only... now you want them in pvp also? cant have everything
seems that its like that:
wiz = superb pve , medium pvp (not bad if hits from far and dodges)
gwf = medium pve , good pvp
tr = bad pve , superb pvp
dc = needed in both pvp and pve can turn a game around
gf = same as dc , if dressed good can own in pvp
hr = a bit worse than wiz in pve and a bit better in pvp
so dont whine... just choose
You're so very wrong.
ALL, absolutely ALL classes should be relatively equally viable in both PvE and PvP. Some classes right now needs a bit of buffing/new abilities for one or another, just as you noticed. One good example is the TR which is awesome in PvP but cannot compete for top DPS in dungeons. What the hell is that? Striker DPS class should always be competing for the top.
well i dont agree and wouldn't like that tbh.. ive played many online games and all ppl feel nostalgia right now for older versions of mmos that had distinct roles of classes and not like todays games that all classes can do everything more or less = kill , heal , tank etc
and as i see cryptic aggrees with me since they promote the special roles = tank for tanking , heal for cleric , stealth for tr (obviously better for pvp skill) and aoe - kite for wiz - hr so thats how you should play them and that my friend promotes parties and coop
ofc you can mix-grill them but you can find that in all games nowadays. we need the different one and i think they are doing a good job. if they just added some pvp content would be perfect for us all
0
dante123plMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 282Arc User
edited December 2013
i switched my sent to destroyer and i can pretty much 2-3 skill a sent if i m lucky with crits
cws are so op in pve that all parties ask for them only... now you want them in pvp also? cant have everything
seems that its like that:
wiz = superb pve , medium pvp (not bad if hits from far and dodges)
gwf = medium pve , good pvp
tr = bad pve , superb pvp
dc = needed in both pvp and pve can turn a game around
gf = same as dc , if dressed good can own in pvp
hr = a bit worse than wiz in pve and a bit better in pvp
so dont whine... just choose
ok YOU EASILY POINTED OUT THE SOLUTION HERE:
WIZ - nerf in PVE (I would imagine an easy way is to put target caps on abilities) if medium in pvp leave it.
GWF - Medium pve (no change), good pvp - only sents so swap around sent spec a little to slightly nerf it.
TR - Buff AoE damage, Then slightly nerf in PVP
DC - no comment, they are necessary in both PVE/PVP.
GF - honestly fairly balanced class IMO.
HR - nerf slightly in pve, and also nerf a tad in pvp.
IV path, picked 15% dmg to marked targets senti feat, class feature Trample +15% more dmg , 10% more dmg from enc while in unstoppable on top of that im at 39% resistance ignored so yea its possible.
Have to agree about gwfs in pvp. I was playing cw forever in pvp (after playing gf forever in pvp), got sick of being pwned, made a gwf, got it epic swordknot, epic sword with plague fire (yes you can have these at like level 10), and now in its teen levels it has three pieces of purple gear, a couple blues...still doesn't even have a helmet and runs around shirtless lol. I love it. There is nothing like jumping RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE of the entire other party and just hacking half or more of them down before they get my toon down. It is fun. But pvp is unbalanced. If the answer to op gwf is "just make 1" then all pvp will be is gwfs after awhile. btw to kit out my gwf as I said was less than 50k ad. A days worth of dailys and professions and bs from my main. This at lvl 15 or so. I can't even imagine what this toon is going to do when it takes iron vanguard. It does not need nerfed. CW needs improved, maybe some form of invisibility or temporary invulnerability/tankiness (see Tenser's transformation).
You REALLY want to balance gwf in pvp with no nerfs? Give CW's a daily that causes the target to become hostile to and attack its team mates for a short duration.
Have to agree about gwfs in pvp. I was playing cw forever in pvp (after playing gf forever in pvp), got sick of being pwned, made a gwf, got it epic swordknot, epic sword with plague fire (yes you can have these at like level 10), and now in its teen levels it has three pieces of purple gear, a couple blues...still doesn't even have a helmet and runs around shirtless lol. I love it. There is nothing like jumping RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE of the entire other party and just hacking half or more of them down before they get my toon down. It is fun. But pvp is unbalanced. If the answer to op gwf is "just make 1" then all pvp will be is gwfs after awhile. btw to kit out my gwf as I said was less than 50k ad. A days worth of dailys and professions and bs from my main. This at lvl 15 or so. I can't even imagine what this toon is going to do when it takes iron vanguard. It does not need nerfed. CW needs improved, maybe some form of invisibility or temporary invulnerability/tankiness (see Tenser's transformation).
You REALLY want to balance gwf in pvp with no nerfs? Give CW's a daily that causes the target to become hostile to and attack its team mates for a short duration.
Which brings up the point of how these people you hacked down was geared compared to you?
Which brings up the point of how these people you hacked down was geared compared to you?
Hacking groups down is a normal occurrence in pugs, so the best answer I can give is "average". Yes gs is important, even at lvl 15. But it is easy to cheap to gear the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of your toon from the start. People who don't watch the ah are generally going to lose/not have great toons. Gotta sell, gotta buy. It is a key component of the game. There is a real simple formula to a good gear score: a>Level a main to 60 and learn the game, learn how to use the ah. Pray as much as possible with this toon, do the dailys, amass ad (even 100k or two, not millions).
b>Start a new toon in a class you absolutely love, watch a youtube video on it or two, read some builds, get an idea of a realistically strong central organizing principle for your toon (normally a stat).
c>Use the AH to buy the cheapest "buy out" epic gear you can use from the lowest levels. This will usually be gear from whatever lockbox is currently really popular. It was fey and dark forest for awhile but now Mulhorand is so popular that those epics are dirt cheap. Mainhand, offhand, cloak.
d>convert some ad to zen and get some keys to open boxes and acquire some good enchants. Enchants are easily the most common find in lockboxes.
e>equip your new toon with that epic gear.
f>Keep an eye on that ah for blue gear that matches the stat you want to max and stack it. Stack stack stack.
A team of toons who used the above formula will not get hacked down by my gwf who jumped in the middle of them for some pwnage. They will focus him, they will lock up his encounters before he can hit unstoppable and they will rip him apart. But most people don't follow that formula. Then they qq in zone and in the forums about op classes when in reality they just don't know how to build their toon/play their class/play pvp/fill their role in pve...whatever.
Knowledge is power and NWO is generally a balanced game. Yes GWF's are a bit op in pvp. But not THAT much vs players who put more thought into building and playing what they have than they do when they play their "character" in mariocart.
Yes GWF's are a bit op in pvp. But not THAT much vs players who put more thought into building and playing what they have than they do when they play their "character" in mariocart.
I'm a GWF. Two GWF's, currently, considering making it three. Two fully geared, epic dungeon capable and pvp centric GWF's.
First, op, you are experiencing internet lag. GWF actually is a little touchy with lag, ESPECIALLY the two abilities you mention. If my internet is slowed for any reason, takedown can become almost completely useless, because it's such a short range encounter and your opponent has every opportunity to avoid you by that little bit.
Flourish is also a bit finicky with 'target lock', and the stun is really only microseconds in PvP. Check the tooltip. Even with a full 5 points, it's pvp effectiveness is almost nil. Flourish does make a great 'get to them' ability, though, and can serve as a mage interrupt.
As far as chasing and closing: that's the 'skill' that separates good players from bad players. Even at mid level, learning how to time sprints and closers against various opponents and strategies is a huge step for a player of our class. Those that can't or at least haven't, experience exactly what you are now: they can't get to a good enemy.
I've found it to be an equal war against what I consider equally skilled opponents. Half the time I get to them, half the time they get away. But that's fair to me, and sometimes I simply take the loss and find easier fish to fry.
Lastly: don't let lacking a 'dodge' affect your ego. I've seen this alot with TR's and CW's that startup a GWF alt. They don't have a dodge (which they use mostly offensively), and thus, end up getting face rolled. It's important to know your strengths.
- GWF's are very dependent on deflect. Deflect percentage and severity is a huge assist for all GWF's, destroyers, sentinels or instigators. But deflect is a double-edged sword: fewer hits get to you, and you get less unstoppable.
- Sprint is a form of CC immunity. Slows and immobilizes, mostly. Snares seem to get through, but that's about it (damned HR's). Keep that in mind when trying to close on CW's. This immunity is usually only available, though, if you are ALREADY SPRINTING. It doesn't break a lot of abilities like unstoppable.
- And save your unstoppable. This is your get out of jail free, screw dying right now card. It breaks almost every form of CC except knockback/down. And you get the most benefit if the bar is full, so use it.
Good luck. I know critics are hard on us right now, and possibly it's deserved. Funny as it sounds, though, our newfound powers still don't make us any more necessary in dungeons. We just aren't as 'red-headed' as we once were.
However, much as CW's are the king of PvE and have been since before open beta, GWF's are the king of PvP and have been. Even our instigators are better than other classes primary PvP tree. Our gear has the most synergy, our abilities are streamlined and effective, and our roles are adaptable. Our Destroyers can second place damage charts right behind dedicated strikers, and our sentinels can match tank-for-tank with GF's.
So in short, if you can't win with a GWF in PvP (at ANY level range, I might add from experience), you are doing something terribly wrong. But don't fret, that can be remedied with a little help.
"Every adventurer has two things in common: they don't like dying, and they love getting paid. The rest is just semantics." Brecken, famed mercenary of Baldur's Gate
beastiegboysMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 6Arc User
edited December 2013
You always wanna nerf gwf, cw 53k dmg, hr even unstoppable is useless with hr skills, tr as tr 50k dmg. Who needs to be nerfed? I agree sentinel gwf is sometimes unwilling to die but 2 or 3 people can do it, depends how hard they hit.
Rule 3.15 - No Petitions, Ultimatums or Hostile Demands
. . . . Please keep feedback constructive and within a format for Community Discussion. Disallowed topics include things like, "Please Nerf This Class" and anything without the direction of a constructive Community Discussion.
Comments
Ig by "Useful" you mean completely dominant, then yes they are useful. The team with the most GWF win every time.
Anyways, there are more classes than gwf, tr, and cw in the game. HR can cc gwf right now for example.
no wizard will want to close quarter a GWF. Too bad your cc immune makes it nigh impossible to stay at range. This whole 'my OP is justified cuz I'm melee' song has been the bane of class balance every game I play. If you're cc immune and wrecking face, you need to be taking double damage, imho.
Well duh....you really think that when a CW starts opening up on us from 80 ft away we shouldn't have the ability to close the gap and put some pain on you? You just want a free kill? GTFO!
if the 'group' is mostly GWFs? Yea, that's what I thought.
seems that its like that:
wiz = superb pve , medium pvp (not bad if hits from far and dodges)
gwf = medium pve , good pvp
tr = bad pve , superb pvp
dc = needed in both pvp and pve can turn a game around
gf = same as dc , if dressed good can own in pvp
hr = a bit worse than wiz in pve and a bit better in pvp
so dont whine... just choose
You're so very wrong.
ALL, absolutely ALL classes should be relatively equally viable in both PvE and PvP. Some classes right now needs a bit of buffing/new abilities for one or another, just as you noticed. One good example is the TR which is awesome in PvP but cannot compete for top DPS in dungeons. What the hell is that? Striker DPS class should always be competing for the top.
And so on.
and as i see cryptic aggrees with me since they promote the special roles = tank for tanking , heal for cleric , stealth for tr (obviously better for pvp skill) and aoe - kite for wiz - hr so thats how you should play them and that my friend promotes parties and coop
ofc you can mix-grill them but you can find that in all games nowadays. we need the different one and i think they are doing a good job. if they just added some pvp content would be perfect for us all
Lol@this
2-3 shot a well built Sent with crits?...<---lol
ok YOU EASILY POINTED OUT THE SOLUTION HERE:
WIZ - nerf in PVE (I would imagine an easy way is to put target caps on abilities) if medium in pvp leave it.
GWF - Medium pve (no change), good pvp - only sents so swap around sent spec a little to slightly nerf it.
TR - Buff AoE damage, Then slightly nerf in PVP
DC - no comment, they are necessary in both PVE/PVP.
GF - honestly fairly balanced class IMO.
HR - nerf slightly in pve, and also nerf a tad in pvp.
All classes balanced then...
no
You REALLY want to balance gwf in pvp with no nerfs? Give CW's a daily that causes the target to become hostile to and attack its team mates for a short duration.
Jugger Conq GF
....
Which brings up the point of how these people you hacked down was geared compared to you?
Hacking groups down is a normal occurrence in pugs, so the best answer I can give is "average". Yes gs is important, even at lvl 15. But it is easy to cheap to gear the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of your toon from the start. People who don't watch the ah are generally going to lose/not have great toons. Gotta sell, gotta buy. It is a key component of the game. There is a real simple formula to a good gear score: a>Level a main to 60 and learn the game, learn how to use the ah. Pray as much as possible with this toon, do the dailys, amass ad (even 100k or two, not millions).
b>Start a new toon in a class you absolutely love, watch a youtube video on it or two, read some builds, get an idea of a realistically strong central organizing principle for your toon (normally a stat).
c>Use the AH to buy the cheapest "buy out" epic gear you can use from the lowest levels. This will usually be gear from whatever lockbox is currently really popular. It was fey and dark forest for awhile but now Mulhorand is so popular that those epics are dirt cheap. Mainhand, offhand, cloak.
d>convert some ad to zen and get some keys to open boxes and acquire some good enchants. Enchants are easily the most common find in lockboxes.
e>equip your new toon with that epic gear.
f>Keep an eye on that ah for blue gear that matches the stat you want to max and stack it. Stack stack stack.
A team of toons who used the above formula will not get hacked down by my gwf who jumped in the middle of them for some pwnage. They will focus him, they will lock up his encounters before he can hit unstoppable and they will rip him apart. But most people don't follow that formula. Then they qq in zone and in the forums about op classes when in reality they just don't know how to build their toon/play their class/play pvp/fill their role in pve...whatever.
Knowledge is power and NWO is generally a balanced game. Yes GWF's are a bit op in pvp. But not THAT much vs players who put more thought into building and playing what they have than they do when they play their "character" in mariocart.
Jugger Conq GF
....
IS OP in PVP I agree.
First, op, you are experiencing internet lag. GWF actually is a little touchy with lag, ESPECIALLY the two abilities you mention. If my internet is slowed for any reason, takedown can become almost completely useless, because it's such a short range encounter and your opponent has every opportunity to avoid you by that little bit.
Flourish is also a bit finicky with 'target lock', and the stun is really only microseconds in PvP. Check the tooltip. Even with a full 5 points, it's pvp effectiveness is almost nil. Flourish does make a great 'get to them' ability, though, and can serve as a mage interrupt.
As far as chasing and closing: that's the 'skill' that separates good players from bad players. Even at mid level, learning how to time sprints and closers against various opponents and strategies is a huge step for a player of our class. Those that can't or at least haven't, experience exactly what you are now: they can't get to a good enemy.
I've found it to be an equal war against what I consider equally skilled opponents. Half the time I get to them, half the time they get away. But that's fair to me, and sometimes I simply take the loss and find easier fish to fry.
Lastly: don't let lacking a 'dodge' affect your ego. I've seen this alot with TR's and CW's that startup a GWF alt. They don't have a dodge (which they use mostly offensively), and thus, end up getting face rolled. It's important to know your strengths.
- GWF's are very dependent on deflect. Deflect percentage and severity is a huge assist for all GWF's, destroyers, sentinels or instigators. But deflect is a double-edged sword: fewer hits get to you, and you get less unstoppable.
- Sprint is a form of CC immunity. Slows and immobilizes, mostly. Snares seem to get through, but that's about it (damned HR's). Keep that in mind when trying to close on CW's. This immunity is usually only available, though, if you are ALREADY SPRINTING. It doesn't break a lot of abilities like unstoppable.
- And save your unstoppable. This is your get out of jail free, screw dying right now card. It breaks almost every form of CC except knockback/down. And you get the most benefit if the bar is full, so use it.
Good luck. I know critics are hard on us right now, and possibly it's deserved. Funny as it sounds, though, our newfound powers still don't make us any more necessary in dungeons. We just aren't as 'red-headed' as we once were.
However, much as CW's are the king of PvE and have been since before open beta, GWF's are the king of PvP and have been. Even our instigators are better than other classes primary PvP tree. Our gear has the most synergy, our abilities are streamlined and effective, and our roles are adaptable. Our Destroyers can second place damage charts right behind dedicated strikers, and our sentinels can match tank-for-tank with GF's.
So in short, if you can't win with a GWF in PvP (at ANY level range, I might add from experience), you are doing something terribly wrong. But don't fret, that can be remedied with a little help.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
Greetings,
Twisted Transistor
thanks.