Just when I thought this line of thought had been settled, BAM! The next chapter in this ride to insanity is going to be epic
It is never going to end. Yesterday he made a thread asking for lore to be added on how the refining system works so he could potentially complain about said lore not jiving with his narrowly defined view.
I tried the introduction quests of Dread Ring Campaign, and found that quest Shatter bestowed by NPC Xuna is a must-do quest. I can't proceed without that quest being completed.
And look at that quest's objective: "Steal Token Shards from Thayans in Quarry (0/5)". Stealing? In a must-do quest? Why force every player to steal? Why?
Now the entire campaign becomes useless to me. I can't even get the boons. You've got to be kidding. I'm not happy now. Really.
It seems you are unable to reconcile how you want the game to be made with how it is actually made. So perhaps this isn't the game for you. Hope you had fun until this point.
But just in case this is the piece where it is possible for you to role play your way out of it, you're alraedy killing them and taking their stuff - this is just more of it.
The right to command is earned through duty, the privilege of rank is service.
Ian, i'm afraid I must put an end to this. For you have committed terrible wrongs to everyone here....
You have STOLEN from all of us. *queue shock and awe*
You have committed unspeakable acts that have robed the good people here of both time and energy. Put simply, you are a thief.
All the time wasted, from advice unheeded. All the effort spurned, from logic ignored. All the valuable energy taken away, from stubborn single minded insistence. These Ian are your crimes. Your thieving nature has been exposed.
We are on to your wicked ways.
0
drwarpeffectMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 71Arc User
edited December 2013
I believe there is more to the OP than many people are giving credit to. Even in real life I am more willing to kill people than steal. Granted, I can imagine circumstances that I would steal in, for example, if stealing Hitler's car would have prevented his invasion of Poland for instance. On the other hand, if I was designing an RPG I would give a choice in the mission as kill the enemy, take loot resources back to quest giver, or destroy the resources, or maybe even steal the resources with or without killing. Games are better when players get more choices, within reason.
More generally, NW often comes off as less the game it could be because so much emphasis is on designing the game so that it pushes people to spend cash as much as possible, instead of earn profit by making the game better.
Actually I do agree that it would be nice if there were multiple ways (within reason) to complete quests, for the sake of immersion. I envision my characters as all being some form of "good" alignment, but my lawful-good DC might do things differently than my neutral-good CW who might also do things differently from my chaotic-good TR.
rabbinicus, personally I regard loot dropping as a reward mechanism. That is, loot which drops from mobs doesn't actually belong to mobs, in this game. For example, does it make sense that spiders drop potions, gold, and gears? Not really. That's just a way this game rewards players.
sockmunkey, well sorry then.
drwarpeffect, the idea of returning loot is interesting.
abell39, yeah, multiple ways to complete quests surely is good. However, considering how 99% quests in the game were designed (gather 5 blablabla, kill 3 blablabla, pick up 10 blablabla, ......), I doubt that multiple ways can be well-implemented.
The exact definition is Aggravated Robbery (other) and Murder.
That assumes that the legal code of Neverwinter, and the rest of the Sword Coast, mirrors that of our world. It is entirely possible that the statutes enacted by Neverwinter (or those that are in force due to some semblance to a common law code) do not consider the acquisition of war material from the Thayans to be theft (or that the prevention of the Thayan acquisition of same material), especially due to the de facto state of war which currently exists due to the actions of Valindra.
I assume a de facto state of war as opposed do a de jure state due to my lack of knowledge pertaining to an offical declaration of war from the governing body of Neverwinter, or of an official decree from Neverember himself. (I may have missed it in the fluff though)
rabbinicus, personally I regard loot dropping as a reward mechanism. That is, loot which drops from mobs doesn't actually belong to mobs, in this game. For example, does it make sense that spiders drop potions, gold, and gears? Not really. That's just a way this game rewards players.
sockmunkey, well sorry then.
drwarpeffect, the idea of returning loot is interesting.
abell39, yeah, multiple ways to complete quests surely is good. However, considering how 99% quests in the game were designed (gather 5 blablabla, kill 3 blablabla, pick up 10 blablabla, ......), I doubt that multiple ways can be well-implemented.
Why is it morally reprehensible to you to "steal" from an avowed enemy of your own people in order to protect your own. Especially considering that you seem to have no issue with killing the enemy. Look at it this way, you are preventing the advance of the enemy's "War Machine" (used in the abstract here, but could possibly be even more accurate if you consider the draco-lich they are trying to create as a literal "machine of war") by denying them some of the material that they need to further their own ends. That is a viable (and effective) strategy in the prosecution of war as demonstrated NUMEROUS times though out our own history.
In "war", a lot of the usual social mores go right out the window. And the "war" in this instance is even more insidious than most of the wars fought in our world. Valindra will LITERALLY steal the soul of anyone that she can, use their reanimated body to conquer more people, kill more people and cause desolation on a massive scale. IMO that allows for the relaxation of many normal "rules" that we live by.
And you have the option of not doing the campaign if you can not bring yourself to "steal" in this fashion.
only found out recently this guy has just been trolling all this time.
Of course he is trolling, but it is still fun to play with him
0
zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
edited December 2013
. . . . . Stating your opinion and providing feedback are separate things. You can give feedback without the expression of opinion and emotion. You can also provide opinions without writing them in such a way that just begs to be trolled in return. Please refrain from writing further topics in such a way and when possible, add your suggestions to existing threads on such topics.
. . . . . The Original Post could have just easily been stated as "Please change 'Steal' to 'Retrieve' in the Objective of the quest 'Shatter' from Xuna in the Dread Ring as I feel that would be more befitting to a number of alignments and personalities." There's no need for semantics, as that just screams troll bait and attracts less-than favorable responses, nor intelligent discussion. Thanks.
Comments
It is never going to end. Yesterday he made a thread asking for lore to be added on how the refining system works so he could potentially complain about said lore not jiving with his narrowly defined view.
It seems you are unable to reconcile how you want the game to be made with how it is actually made. So perhaps this isn't the game for you. Hope you had fun until this point.
But just in case this is the piece where it is possible for you to role play your way out of it, you're alraedy killing them and taking their stuff - this is just more of it.
You have STOLEN from all of us. *queue shock and awe*
You have committed unspeakable acts that have robed the good people here of both time and energy. Put simply, you are a thief.
All the time wasted, from advice unheeded. All the effort spurned, from logic ignored. All the valuable energy taken away, from stubborn single minded insistence. These Ian are your crimes. Your thieving nature has been exposed.
We are on to your wicked ways.
More generally, NW often comes off as less the game it could be because so much emphasis is on designing the game so that it pushes people to spend cash as much as possible, instead of earn profit by making the game better.
Kaylee Krankenwagen, level 60 GF | Tavandruil Wayfinder, level 49 GWF | Aldith Langley, level 51 HR
sockmunkey, well sorry then.
drwarpeffect, the idea of returning loot is interesting.
abell39, yeah, multiple ways to complete quests surely is good. However, considering how 99% quests in the game were designed (gather 5 blablabla, kill 3 blablabla, pick up 10 blablabla, ......), I doubt that multiple ways can be well-implemented.
That assumes that the legal code of Neverwinter, and the rest of the Sword Coast, mirrors that of our world. It is entirely possible that the statutes enacted by Neverwinter (or those that are in force due to some semblance to a common law code) do not consider the acquisition of war material from the Thayans to be theft (or that the prevention of the Thayan acquisition of same material), especially due to the de facto state of war which currently exists due to the actions of Valindra.
I assume a de facto state of war as opposed do a de jure state due to my lack of knowledge pertaining to an offical declaration of war from the governing body of Neverwinter, or of an official decree from Neverember himself. (I may have missed it in the fluff though)
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
Why is it morally reprehensible to you to "steal" from an avowed enemy of your own people in order to protect your own. Especially considering that you seem to have no issue with killing the enemy. Look at it this way, you are preventing the advance of the enemy's "War Machine" (used in the abstract here, but could possibly be even more accurate if you consider the draco-lich they are trying to create as a literal "machine of war") by denying them some of the material that they need to further their own ends. That is a viable (and effective) strategy in the prosecution of war as demonstrated NUMEROUS times though out our own history.
In "war", a lot of the usual social mores go right out the window. And the "war" in this instance is even more insidious than most of the wars fought in our world. Valindra will LITERALLY steal the soul of anyone that she can, use their reanimated body to conquer more people, kill more people and cause desolation on a massive scale. IMO that allows for the relaxation of many normal "rules" that we live by.
And you have the option of not doing the campaign if you can not bring yourself to "steal" in this fashion.
Of course he is trolling, but it is still fun to play with him
. . . . . The Original Post could have just easily been stated as "Please change 'Steal' to 'Retrieve' in the Objective of the quest 'Shatter' from Xuna in the Dread Ring as I feel that would be more befitting to a number of alignments and personalities." There's no need for semantics, as that just screams troll bait and attracts less-than favorable responses, nor intelligent discussion. Thanks.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]