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PvP Perma Stealth? No, PvE!
larzynt
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
Preface: I don't want to post a poem about stats, skills to use, rotations, gear and enchantments.
I posted for players that wants to use a pve build.
All I can say about gear is that T2 PvP is way better on this build, but perma-stealth damage will be good only against bosses. On Adds it's better a normal rogue rotation.
So as usual you need 24% armor penetration on boss.
http://nwcalc.com/tr?b=p9z:4yq5s:6rcv,1xc0505:6u000:6u000:b0z51&h=0
Why a perma-stealth rogue that follows x3lade's build can enjoy his character just in PvP, remain disadvantaged in PvE?
well, you know, 25% critical damage bonus in stealth is not that bad, but what about Duelist's flurry? You don't like 15% more crit damage?
What about 20% Combat Advantage Bonus? (for perma-stealth this means 20% bonus more from Combat Advantage)
x3lade's build is PvP only, but with a good recharge speed you can be a perma stealth rogue also with 13 INT. so, sometime ago I made this build, tested and all I can say is: Perma-stealth rogues have a good damage in PvE, maybe more then normal Executioner rogues.
About recharge speed bonus follow x3lade build. That guy just wrote everything about cooldowns.
You will say good bye to 5% critical rate testing this build, gaining much more damage bonus.
About stats rolling.. depends which race are you running, on my rogue that follows this build I have (with campfire bonus) 20 STR, 22 DEX, 20 INT, 16 CHA, try to have a good mix with damage bonus, critical and Combat advantage bonus.
I posted for players that wants to use a pve build.
All I can say about gear is that T2 PvP is way better on this build, but perma-stealth damage will be good only against bosses. On Adds it's better a normal rogue rotation.
So as usual you need 24% armor penetration on boss.
http://nwcalc.com/tr?b=p9z:4yq5s:6rcv,1xc0505:6u000:6u000:b0z51&h=0
Why a perma-stealth rogue that follows x3lade's build can enjoy his character just in PvP, remain disadvantaged in PvE?
well, you know, 25% critical damage bonus in stealth is not that bad, but what about Duelist's flurry? You don't like 15% more crit damage?
What about 20% Combat Advantage Bonus? (for perma-stealth this means 20% bonus more from Combat Advantage)
x3lade's build is PvP only, but with a good recharge speed you can be a perma stealth rogue also with 13 INT. so, sometime ago I made this build, tested and all I can say is: Perma-stealth rogues have a good damage in PvE, maybe more then normal Executioner rogues.
About recharge speed bonus follow x3lade build. That guy just wrote everything about cooldowns.
You will say good bye to 5% critical rate testing this build, gaining much more damage bonus.
About stats rolling.. depends which race are you running, on my rogue that follows this build I have (with campfire bonus) 20 STR, 22 DEX, 20 INT, 16 CHA, try to have a good mix with damage bonus, critical and Combat advantage bonus.
Link zone:
Youtube: Trickster Rogue - Pug Match @ 1 vs 1
Screenshot zone:
Click: I Bet 99% of people CAN'T screenshot this
Youtube: Trickster Rogue - Pug Match @ 1 vs 1
Screenshot zone:
Click: I Bet 99% of people CAN'T screenshot this
Post edited by larzynt on
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FaceRoller- regen recovery TR (put on the shelf for now) 14k GS
Supreme CHAOS - IV GF (put on the shelf for now) 16k GS
White Khalifa- tene/hp/regen CW (retired) 11k GS (tene)
Death From Above- TANK ranger 16kGS
(all halfling everything)
Proud rank 6 of: <Enemy Team>
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Hope i can get better gear soon but do not have the time to play anyway tnx for sharing this but i think for low gear permas and int chars since i do not have the intentio to reroll Sneaky Stabber is a must just my oppinion. I was building my first rogue on x3lade's guide but since he does not play anymore i went away from it changed few things.
In PvE you can be a perma-stealth just dropping Bait And Switch.. 20% recharge speed it's ok
The rogue with this is not my main character, so I've something like 24% armor penetration and 25% recharge speed (nub gear)
Youtube: Trickster Rogue - Pug Match @ 1 vs 1
Screenshot zone:
Click: I Bet 99% of people CAN'T screenshot this
Ok. As far as i know, Perma TR rotation is something like shadow strike, BnS, ItC correct?
PvE TR rotation on boss is something like, BnS, ItC and WR.
My PvE TR got 24%+ recharge speed and AP regen, with 24% armor pen and something like 5,000 power.
I'm not sure, how a perma, can out DPS me if i can stay in stealth @ bosses by almost the same amount + i have much more power than them + i use an encounter that boosts my damage by 25%?
Not to mention that i have Scoundrel training and Disciple of strength on heroics, which is also an advantage over your build DPS wise.
You know how i can stay stealthed by almost the same amount? because i can spam lurkers, lurkers= stealth especially if you have invisible infiltrator class feature.
Don't get me wrong, i'm not denying the viability of perma TRs in PvE. But you said they can deal more damage than PvE TRs, which i highly doubt.
Also, by the way, CHA is bugged. The bonus from it isn't additive..it is % out of the CA damage ( which is 15%). So basically the bonus you get from CHA is X % out of 15%.
These are my stats with swash buff ( which is btw, up all the time @ 3 stacks):
And i have 22 STR 24 DEX.
may i know ur Nick@handler? curious about ur Gear and ur Stone. can u show it to us?
thanks
Is this a show-off thread? Well if you know rogues, you also know that Deadly Momentum is a great choice, and probably you also know that feat called "Brutal Backstab"
Now genius, count 2 plus 2 and you will have the answer. :*
Post-Scriptum, those stas are from my 12 INT Executioner rogue, but it's the same if I change build into perma-stealth (btw, you can stay in semi-perma stealth also with 12 INT.
Youtube: Trickster Rogue - Pug Match @ 1 vs 1
Screenshot zone:
Click: I Bet 99% of people CAN'T screenshot this
I'm terribly sorry if my stats made you mad . It wasn't my intention at all.
You stated that your build, can deal more damage than a normal Executioner PvE TR. And so i replied, as i'm a PvE executioner TR myself, to stat that you are wrong. You gave a misinformation, and i corrected it.
You also stated that adding CHA gives you more damage, which is wrong ( re-read the post to know why).
And yes, i do use deadly momentum and brutal backstab ( just like any PvE executioner TR) and that doesn't change the fact that PvE executioner TR got more stats, DPS feats and STR than perma TRs.
Feel free to re-read my post, carefully, to see why a normal PvE executioner TR would deal more damage than a PvE perma because i doubt you have read/understood anything.
Another Note: you armor pen is too low for PvE.
Again, i'm not saying your build is bad for PvE. I'm just saying it doesn't deal more damage than a PvE executioner TR. Damage wise, the PvE executioner TR spec would win.
Get your facts straights, and have a good day! ( please no need for virtual kisses, they make me shiver)
It's ok for Esteena to lash out at other people's builds but cannot take the criticism of their own ?
I am still chuckling at your use of Blitz, lol
1- I didn't show my gear score.
2- Stone stats display on your character sheet. ( you spend 4 hours testing stuff, and you didn't notice that?)
3- I didn't post my gearing because this would be considered as thread hijacking ( and as you were banned before...you should have re-read the RoC.)
4- My stone isn't loaded "heavy" with recovery nor power.
Where is my lashing?
I simply pointed out, and corrected a misinformation about : PvP perma stealth TR > normal PvE executioner TR damage wise.
I have also stated ( with numbers) why i have said what i said.
As for you, you didn't read ( You seem to be having troubles with that) that i have mentioned that the build is good, but not bigger in DPS.
When you make a guide, and say " my PvP/PvE hybrid build is better than PvE builds" then you have to prove it. As for the OP, he didn't post any number comparisons to prove what he claimed.
Cheers.
So it's ok for you to blast on someone else's build , but not ok for you to be put on blast ?
Edit: My bans have never ever had anything to do with you, stop thinking highly of yourself.
My friend, you are getting "obsessed" with me. I suggest you find another hobby and stay on topic as what you are doing will only get your lil elf even more pissed
Edit: The OP's post is a constructive criticism to xlade's PvP perma build. which inturns, made me motivated to constructively criticize the OP about his claim of hybrid build DPS vs PvE only DPS.
Cheers.
Where is this criminal that put a gun to your head and made you reply to something on the internet ??
He must be prosecuted !
What it boils down to is you try to tear down someone else's post about a PvE build cause god forbid it flies in the face of your post.
Wondering where did you read that, I always chooce STR and DEX.
So, wasn't my intenction to focus your attention on Gear Score.. I don't really care about gear score, I care just about stats. You posted a picture (considered Out Topic thing imho)
So, What's the difference between a perma-stealth executioner and normal executioner?
I will answer myself, the real difference it's on INT stat (so recharge speed bonus) which increase encounter use on bosses. If you have a good Bonus Damage from STR and Discipline of strenght and a good party which debuff the boss you can spam more time your daily and Lashing blade, which can deal more then 100k crit in 1 time. I didn't test this build on my main rogue, just tested sometime ago on my second character and saw that with a T1 pvp gear I dealed the same damage of other TRs in my party.
So who wants to try INT Rogues -> More stealth = more critical bonus. More recharge speed = more encounter use.
If you see the paragon tree you will notice that the only thing changed there is a -5% critical strike rate and a plus 20% action point recharge.
This build is a PvE Executioner build. The main difference between a normal build and this lamer build is a stat (INT instead DEX).
So other critical rate lost. Who cares? You can fix it.
That maybe means something.. if you know how to use a build and rogue stats you will probably stay on my side. If you are a monkey that only press At-will key and some encounter without checking nothing else, then go normal PvE executioner build. It's way better (I also use 12 INT on my main character, more easy)
..post scriptum
I know, I am missing 2% armor penetration cuz of weapon change, I will fix it soon :* :*
Now have fun, I posted this build. If you don't like this noone cares, it's just another random build. If you know how to use and how to fix missing stats.. enjoy it!
Youtube: Trickster Rogue - Pug Match @ 1 vs 1
Screenshot zone:
Click: I Bet 99% of people CAN'T screenshot this
You suggested, balancing stats between STR DEX and CHA to have damage bonus and crit and CA damage. Which is why i start commenting on CHA that it doesn't add any significant amount to CA.
I didn't post anything about gear score, i posted my stats. The reason why i posted my stats, is to show that i do have the same amount of base AP gain you have without running any perma builds nor sacrificing any stats for it either.
I have some things to comment on here:
1- You build your build focused about crit severity bonus, but didn't take the feat that gives you 5% more crit chance. oO
2- on your heroic feats, you didn't take scoundrel training ( means that you are missing 6% more damage when you are stealthed /targets not targeting you) shouldn't you take that since you are a "perma stealth" ?
3- You didn't take disciple of strength, thats 6% damage loss.
4- you didn't take Endless assault , thats 6% less damage on your encounters while trash clearing.
So, basically , your build vs the PvE TR build is : - 12~18% damage and less crit hits.
Now i see, you took the feat that increase your stealth duration by 20% combined with 25% from skulker...that's 3 seconds more of stealth. 3 seconds that you would probably waste 1~1.5 seconds of it while dodging.
About your replacement for the feat that gives 5% more crit, with the one that gives 20% more AP again while stealthed. Since you are a perma stealth, i think that would work for you perfectly if you manage to stay stealthed 90% of the time. However, it won't let you deal more damage than a PvE non-perma stealth TR because of the following reason:
PvE non-perma TRs got 24% AP gain by base, can go up to 40% if they use tactics. so basically slotting that feat that gives you 20% AP again:
So in total, you would have around 20%+24% = 44% AP gain (20% of it is only when you are stealthed)
While the normal PvE TR would have = 40% AP gain ( up all the time, stealthed or not)
is 4% AP gain worth sacrificing 5% crit chance for?
Not true. The critical team work feat adds crit chance stats directly to your crit chance. You crit stat doesn't add directly to your crit chance stat.
Crit stat is a flat amount that is translated into percentage and it has diminishing returns on it, so basically, even if you have 4k crit you still would't manage to get the 5% crit chance loss you sacrificed.
So if iam a normal PvE executioner build, it means i'm a monkey ? okay.
I like your build. I think it is very awesome that you balanced the situation to be good in PvE and PvP. Any hybrid TR should use your build, however, a PvE only TR can still out DPS your hybrid build in PvE for the reasons i mentioned above.
And by a PvE only TR, i mean a TR who feated only for PvE without putting any PvP specs in mind.
I'm sorry if you misunderstood my words when i said that PVE TR deals more damage.
I didn't mean by anyhow to disrespect your build or say that it isn't viable. I was just commenting on your claim when you said that your hybrid build can out perform PvE only builds interms of DPS.
I didnt say you are a monkey. I just wrote that this is not a classic build, and is not easy to use cuz of stealth mode.. each hit removes a bit of stealth bar. It's more hard to use, but if used correctly can deal a good damage, MAYBE more then a classic build.
I don't use this build, because classic one with STR / DEX or DEX / CHA is more versatile. And imho you can be a perma-stealth in PvE and Semi perma-stealth in pvp if you correctly play your character
Youtube: Trickster Rogue - Pug Match @ 1 vs 1
Screenshot zone:
Click: I Bet 99% of people CAN'T screenshot this