Are traps getting tweaked anytime soon?

ysil6969

Currently traps in this game are a joke. Especially since 4e gives the ability to customize a trap from minor to epic. There's no reason some area's shouldn't have traps capable of one hitting people, and why don't traps give exp? It doesn't make any sense. Currently you might as well not even have traps in the game...

bioshrike

ysil6969 wrote: »

Currently traps in this game are a joke. Especially since 4e gives the ability to customize a trap from minor to epic. There's no reason some area's shouldn't have traps capable of one hitting people, and why don't traps give exp? It doesn't make any sense. Currently you might as well not even have traps in the game...

Until such time that I can use other skills and/or thief kits to disarm traps, they shouldn't be *that* dangerous. In a pen and paper setting, one can come up with creative and ingenious ways to overcome or safely trigger traps. In the limited form of interaction we have here in NW, things need to be dumbed down and simplified in favor of greater ease of play and a more forgiving play experience.

dragoncrest0

yeah. especially since you cant even disarm a trap while in combat right now, I agree with Bioshrike

ysil6969

dragoncrest0 wrote: »

yeah. especially since you cant even disarm a trap while in combat right now, I agree with Bioshrike

Avoid the traps during combat? That's the problem with traps. Nobody cares. You don't have to even think when running a dungeon, you just zerg it. You should be considering where you're fighting and your surroundings.

The traps obviously shouldn't be too dangerous down the straight path. Nobody should be barred from completing something because of a trap in their way. But A)Offer a thief companion for disarming/detecting and just use the hard hitting traps infront of out of the way chests and skill nodes. You get past the trap, you get the chest. Things like pitfall traps you should be able to jump over, projectile traps if you're quick enough you should be able to dodge, etc. We have the ability to dodge attacks, no reason we can't implement that in the game.

bioshrike

ysil6969 wrote: »

Avoid the traps during combat? That's the problem with traps. Nobody cares. You don't have to even think when running a dungeon, you just zerg it. You should be considering where you're fighting and your surroundings.

The traps obviously shouldn't be too dangerous down the straight path. Nobody should be barred from completing something because of a trap in their way. But A)Offer a thief companion for disarming/detecting and just use the hard hitting traps infront of out of the way chests and skill nodes. You get past the trap, you get the chest. Things like pitfall traps you should be able to jump over, projectile traps if you're quick enough you should be able to dodge, etc. We have the ability to dodge attacks, no reason we can't implement that in the game.

I understand your point. My issue is, however, that all things being equal, other classes should be able to takes steps to counter them as well. For instance, a great weapon fighter could simply extend their sword ahead of themselves to trigger traps from a safe distance, or a CW could simply freeze the ground to disable any traps there for the spell's duration. If TR's are going to be the only ones who can disarm traps, and they have a 100% chance to see and disable them, then the rewards from doing so should be minimal... which right now only consist of being able to walk where those traps were, with impunity...

azlanfox

I second what bioshrike is saying, all classes should be able to do something to safely trigger a trap if one is lucky enough to notice it in time to avoid it.

I just love those ancient, auto-loading, belt-fed, huge ammo storage arrow traps... those dwarves sure can build things that self-lubricate, never jam... yet all their civilizations declined.

ambisinisterr

There's been nothing officially stated that traps are getting reworked.


And I get what you are saying bioshrike and azlanfox but there's a difference between deadly and dangerous.

Traps are a joke. Especially on my Guardian Fighter I will step on them just because I can without any fear, especially if a silly rogue is actually trying to disarm it. They at worst do 5% of my max HP on even a "squishy" character.

The only reason to avoid traps on any class is because they will inhibit movement (I.E. Spike traps) but the damge from them is so comically small they might as well not exist to begin with. They should be dangerous. Not DDO's god awful one shot kill traps around every single corner but enough for players to care about avoiding them or go "oh <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>" when they accidentally trigger them rather than "ugh, I stopped moving."

eldarth

Yes - definitely, more dangerous, perhaps some author scalability, also being able to disable traps based on component complete, or other mechanisms. And, other classes definitely need a way of triggering/disabling them from a distance. If they managed to "see" or detect the trap, then they should be able to target/do damage to it and basically wreck it's mechanism. Although, perhaps something like a poison/gas trap might have a chance of triggering when damaged.

ordensmarschall

Traps do need to present more of a threat. There should be many reasons to bring a thief along on a dungeon crawl besides their DPS capability, detecting/disarming traps is one of them. If a thief is not around, other classes would just have to be more cautious when moving thru a dungeon. Traps can be avoided, by not stepping on the pressure plate, jumping over it, triggering it from a distance. Getting hit by a trap when a thief is not around is sometimes unavoidable, it is part of dungeoneering. Why not have a trap able to one shot every once a while? Make it so that the player that is paying attention can avoid it easily, and the zerging player will know it is there and after respawning will pay attention when going thru the area. So yes they need to do much more damage.

wolfboy13579

when i seen a trap in neverwinter nights i would avoid those like a plaque. they had the potential of 1 hitting your character and i enjoyed that.if i had a rogue henchmen with me i would have him/her disarm it. i miss the "booby trap" chest from that game. those things were nasty if you go to open them. the traps in this game, i just walk on them and not care. i would love to see the more obvious traps in quest/dungeons be more hidden.would be great if they did a trap rework.

frishter

True traps are weak and very easy to avoid. It doesn't bother me though since I'm not especially keen on them, but I guess they should have more of an effect. I just don't want them to be insane.

ngeluz

I don't know about you but the SAW trap can kill you real fast if your already hurt. I support Bioshriek with the traps, but may be we can come to a happy medium. Leave the trap as they are but what they will do is cause *rez injury*. That way player will sure want to avoid them, too many Rez injuries will cripple your performance in any battle. It could be a similar incapacitation that is not as permanent as the rez injuries but maybe more advance in the crippling or something in does lines.
The one shot kill trap, ah no, that be too frustrating we already have the spikes on floor and the falling into cliff for that.

the1tigglet

dragoncrest0 wrote: »

yeah. especially since you cant even disarm a trap while in combat right now, I agree with Bioshrike

I do too. Unless they offer some means by which to disarm they shouldn't 1 shot. I used to think they should be more dangerous but then I looked at the classes and items and there's no balance there if they were more powerful.

They do need items or trap release to make them more fun. I would have thought that their team that worked on crafting professions would have been a bit better on their system but the crafting in this game is highly disappointing. Crafting items for disarming traps should be in the game and that would allow the devs to make traps more dangerous without requiring a specific class to be in a dungeon setting to disarm them.

ysil6969

ambisinisterr wrote: »

There's been nothing officially stated that traps are getting reworked.


And I get what you are saying bioshrike and azlanfox but there's a difference between deadly and dangerous.

Traps are a joke. Especially on my Guardian Fighter I will step on them just because I can without any fear, especially if a silly rogue is actually trying to disarm it. They at worst do 5% of my max HP on even a "squishy" character.

The only reason to avoid traps on any class is because they will inhibit movement (I.E. Spike traps) but the damge from them is so comically small they might as well not exist to begin with. They should be dangerous. Not DDO's god awful one shot kill traps around every single corner but enough for players to care about avoiding them or go "oh <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>" when they accidentally trigger them rather than "ugh, I stopped moving."

I actually like this idea. Put traps into the center of more battles/boss battles, and make them movement impairing. If you're stuck in spot and can't avoid that bosses/mobs aoe you're more likely to watch out for them. Or have the stun you so you can't use your abilities. Doing this you'd need to enable disarming traps during combat though.

As for everyone being able to disarm traps, that's just not DnD. A rogue companion would even the field as well as adding reflex saves into the game for traps. Not sure why saves aren't even in this game =/. Being able to cut the string with your GWF sword is only possible if you're GWF knows the traps there. Since they did away with skills, you can't even get perception, but add a hidden perception check that runs off your wisdom modifier. Give it a +5 like every character is trained in it from character creation since we can't choose. This way you detect the trap, your rogue disarms it, if you don't detect the trap you have a nasty surprise.

I agree nothing like DDO's insta kill traps. Which were kind of fun but REQUIRED a rogue to complete an adventure (Like real dnd though). Dungeons are probably the most boring part of this game. At least pre-end game.

tinukeda

Lots of good points about these things in this thread; completely agree that they could use some TLC/reworking.

I will say though, I have found 1-2 occasions where I was able to use the traps to my advantage while leveling (usually with a squishier, possibly underlevel, class for the encounter). One of the 4 'get the key from a lieutenant' rooms in the Plague Cathedral comes to mind: lots of saw traps on the floor that were useful against the mobs in there; just stand with the trap between you and bait the mob to attack and they blindly run right into the trap! Easier kills!

lobo0084

My opinion is that both groups are correct.

- Traps need to made deadly, dangerous, and even downright troublesome. Not only do you have spike pits and poisons, but lets not forget traps which collapse corridors so that you have to take the long (and mob ridden) way around. They should be something to avoid.

- Traps should be randomly placed each time you load a map. NEVER should the system be so predictable that you don't have to keep on your toes, no matter if you've ran the map 1,000 times.

- Traps should be both obvious (as they are now), and very well hidden. Everyone should have a random chance to spot a trap (represented by surrounding the trap trigger with a red circle, like the rogue spot now), but a rogue should have the best result, immediately spotting all but the most powerful traps, and then having a good random chance of spotting them.

- Anybody should be able to disarm a trap that they have spotted. But this disarm, even with thief kit, should come with a small chance that the trap will still go off dramatically.

- Traps should be in PvP maps.

All in all, you should WANT a rogue in your party, and not just because of his high dps score. There's more elements to gaming that doing and taking damage.

djarkaan

We need a trap crafting profession, that creates quick slottables traps with a cast time and cooldown based on trap difficulty and are only rogue usable.

bioshrike

Let's say they go ahead and make traps super deadly - to the point where they can almost 1-shot you. They should also make them where they trigger once, and that's it. No self-resetting, infinite ammo traps anymore. They should also vary the trap types more. For instance, a giant buzz saw trap doesn't make sense in the sewers or woods, but a rockfall or log-swing trap does. And at the very least, thief kits should allow you to disarm them.

lobo0084

bioshrike wrote: »

Let's say they go ahead and make traps super deadly - to the point where they can almost 1-shot you. They should also make them where they trigger once, and that's it. No self-resetting, infinite ammo traps anymore. They should also vary the trap types more. For instance, a giant buzz saw trap doesn't make sense in the sewers or woods, but a rockfall or log-swing trap does. And at the very least, thief kits should allow you to disarm them.

I agree with single-trigger traps. And with the trap fitting the environment.

I don't agree that it should be a universal thing that all classes can do. Maybe the type of trap (natural, mechanical, dungeon) should be oriented with the associated classes/races. But in all cases, Rogue's should be the single-most powerful anti-trap class, able to not just spot them but disarm them with more efficiency than any other.

I like the concept of classes REQUIRING each other to be really successful, especially in group-oriented content like dungeons.

stormdrag0n

Traps should be:
Brutal to Deadly
One shot only
Difficult to detect by non-Thief's even with a kit
Random (I.E. never in the same place twice)

scififan78

I like the idea that traps should be one time use. I also like the idea that traps should cause injuries. I also believe that any player with a thief kit should be able to use the kit to disarm traps. That said, I have often used the traps to my advantage. I was in a cave fighting a group of baddies and I walked around to where one of the spike traps was between me and the baddie. I was a great help to shorten the fight.

Trap incurred injuries could go something like this:
Spike / saw traps = Leg injuries
arrow traps = arm / chest injurries
gas traps = head injuries

ordensmarschall

Having a thief kit should gave you a slight chance to disarm any traps you encounter, but no where near the ability that a thief has. After all there is a reason we different classes with different abilities.