So I'm guessing that this 3 mins was done with a full group of tier 1 (or t2 pvp) geared people? It is done with players that play at the top of their game and don't let the queen heal herself
It'd take about that to get the boss to suicide for spider, can be quicker though. So if it takes the same amount of time to cheat on the boss, why cheat? You end up with extra deaths and plus you don't get your drake seals from her.
People who have their gear already probably generally don't bother doing spider. Spider has a relatively easy dungeon, and then the last boss is much much harder. Before everything was BOP it was the most profitable dungeon during T2 for a group of our standards that could clear it several times in 1 DD (without cheating).Now I only go if somebody needs T2 chest like an alt or a new player.
It doesn't really matter if its theoretically possible. The boss clearly doesn't live up to the difficulty of the rest of the dungeon and isn't an easy feat for those that don't already have the gear for it. Hence exploiting is the attractive option. So you just summed it up, you aren't good enough to kill the boss so you just cheat it.
Pugging in particular can be hard to get a decent group. Exploiting gives them a guarantee that they get a chance of getting their gear without finding out at the very end that they may or may not be able to do it. Nobody should be rewarded with gear if they are cheating. This is the number 1 problem I have with exploiting. It gives cheaters and bad players access to gear and people who join with them in dungeons think they may be good and have to find out the hard way.So many people have applied to our guild with T2 gear and we think they may be good, only to find out they are bad players and never earned their gear.
As for Karrundax, the last boss is relatively easy, whilst the 2nd boss in particular has an insane about of adds, again is challenging for those that don't have t2 gear already let alone those that are geared. 20 silver to ensure you get DD loot is not a lot of gold. Especially when it's equivalent to 3 major health pots, so can actually be cheaper to exploit. Gold is so easily obtainable in this game. Not a valid argument. You are only cheating because the encounter is too hard.
When you refer to me disagreeing with it being because they suck, you forget to include that not all exploits are boss exploits. As mentioned the gauntlegrym one could run past all of the mobs. Do they do it because they suck and can't clear simple mobs? No of course not. People may be able to take down a boss legitimately. It doesn't mean that they won't resort to exploits if they find it easier or a way of ensuring that there's no wipe. It also doesn't mean that they suck if they do wipe. If you are wiping on a boss your group needs some serious help. The only time we are wiping on a boss is if it was our learning phase or if we had a group of trials. I can't remember the last time one of our core groups wiped on any T2 boss.
If you think that then you will think that most of the player base sucks then... Personally I'm fine with exploits. Well what can I say. You said it again. People aren't good so they cheat.
For MC I thought it was fair to exploit the last boss when it was ridiculously bugged. Now I want to do it legitimatly, although I've not really tried often to get into a group that wants to. What's the incentive? A possible blue drop which was quicker to do another 2/3? A pair of useless gloves from the disappointing (imo) new sets? Meh. My time would have been better spent avoiding MC altogether, I could've earnt a lot more AD. How much time do you have to play per day? Everybody on the forums seems to be so concerned about time -- as if they only have 20 minutes to play per day.
I know players that are very geared and skilled and they exploit.
If you think you are correct, I challenge you to bring PROOF for your claim that exploiters do so because they lack skills.
Proof... not empty words.
There is nothing in it for me to post proof. What do you want me to do? Make a video? Screenshots all day? I am a hardcore player in this game and one of the leaders of a legit guild -- trust me when I say the best players for PVE are legit players. The best players laugh at exploiters.
What class do you play as? See now that we are on the same server, we can easily get people in to our runs to show them how a real legit guild does clears.
There is nothing in it for me to post proof. What do you want me to do? Make a video? Screenshots all day? I am a hardcore player in this game and one of the leaders of a legit guild -- trust me when I say the best players for PVE are legit players. The best players laugh at exploiters.
What class do you play as? See now that we are on the same server, we can easily get people in to our runs to show them how a real legit guild does clears.
I'm a CW. I asked proof for your claim that exploiters are bad players. I never questioned your skill or your team's, I don't even know you, and I never make assumptions about things I don't know.
You should follow the same principle...
For people that read this discussion just now, I am not for exploiting at all. I am just defending reality and have a neutral position:
- trash is unrewarding so it's understandable if somebody wants to skip it
- players that skip trash or sometimes exploit bosses are not necessarily bad, there is no correlation here; an exploiter can either be a low skill or very skilled player
- it is understandable if a party goes the path which is more efficient; at 9000 GS and relative new players, the path of least resistance might be exploiting; at 12K GS (excluding GF yadayada) and experienced (for real...) players, with augments, weapon enchants, a few good CWs etc., the path of least resistance would probably be "burn them all" and "AoE everything down".
So it is all coming down to efficiency.
The devs can EASILY remedy this situation, not by patching holes (i.e. fixing the symptom), but by correcting the root cause of exploiting - which is trash not worth the time, some bosses requiring more gear than they're supposed to and so on. Once the devs make the trash clearing very enticing and boss encounters challenging but doable at the entrance GS, it will all be fine. For hardcore players with hardcore gear, make challenge modes for dungeons with special rewards, and achievements that reward players for killing bosses in a special, very difficult way.
Simple.
As for your invitation, thanks, but I already have a team of geared guys which are very efficient at clearing everything in their way. One of the most fun situations is when we have an outsider that insists to exploit and we demonstrate to him that legit kills are faster. But then again... we already played a few months and are overgearing instances by far.
0
seisem2Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I'm a CW. I asked proof for your claim that exploiters are bad players. I never questioned your skill or your team's, I don't even know you, and I never make assumptions about things I don't know.
You should follow the same principle...
For people that read this discussion just now, I am not for exploiting at all. I am just defending reality and have a neutral position:
- trash is unrewarding so it's understandable if somebody wants to skip it
- players that skip trash or sometimes exploit bosses are not necessarily bad, there is no correlation here; an exploiter can either be a low skill or very skilled player
- it is understandable if a party goes the path which is more efficient; at 9000 GS and relative new players, the path of least resistance might be exploiting; at 12K GS (excluding GF yadayada) and experienced (for real...) players, with augments, weapon enchants, a few good CWs etc., the path of least resistance would probably be "burn them all" and "AoE everything down".
So it is all coming down to efficiency.
The devs can EASILY remedy this situation, not by patching holes (i.e. fixing the symptom), but by correcting the root cause of exploiting - which is trash not worth the time, some bosses requiring more gear than they're supposed to and so on. Once the devs make the trash clearing very enticing and boss encounters challenging but doable at the entrance GS, it will all be fine. For hardcore players with hardcore gear, make challenge modes for dungeons with special rewards, and achievements that reward players for killing bosses in a special, very difficult way.
Simple.
As for your invitation, thanks, but I already have a team of geared guys which are very efficient at clearing everything in their way. One of the most fun situations is when we have an outsider that insists to exploit and we demonstrate to him that legit kills are faster. But then again... we already played a few months and are overgearing instances by far.
Once they make the trash drops decent, people will only farm trash -- until the market is flooded. The same people who do the trash runs will be the same people who have to cheat on the boss -- because they aren't good enough. Look at near every post on the forums of why they cheat.. its the same answer every time... game is too hard for them. Same exact thing I see when I log into neverwinter, game is just too hard for the cheaters.
Just passing by,anyway you can't really say that all of the exploiters = bad players.I don't really support exploits however weeks ago i met a group in spellplague they can just pull the whole room of trash with only 1 CW and survive that.They did exploited some of the mechanics.However i won't call them bad players,their skills are extremely good and maybe you only met bad players that's all.Some of the good players exploits dungeon to save time,not that dungeons is hard.The dungeons in this game are extremely easy and clearing legit is not even an achievement.
0
zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
edited October 2013
Closing this now.Section III of the Rules of Conduct explains forum policy and how to properly report bad behavior.
Comments
See my responses above in Red.
Catalina Erantzo - GWF 13.9K GS
<Future> Guild on Dragon - Legit Non Exploit Guild (We are always recruiting great players)
Future Guild Recruitment Thread: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?475381-lt-Future-gt-Legit-Non-Exploit-Guild-Recruiting
There is nothing in it for me to post proof. What do you want me to do? Make a video? Screenshots all day? I am a hardcore player in this game and one of the leaders of a legit guild -- trust me when I say the best players for PVE are legit players. The best players laugh at exploiters.
What class do you play as? See now that we are on the same server, we can easily get people in to our runs to show them how a real legit guild does clears.
Catalina Erantzo - GWF 13.9K GS
<Future> Guild on Dragon - Legit Non Exploit Guild (We are always recruiting great players)
Future Guild Recruitment Thread: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?475381-lt-Future-gt-Legit-Non-Exploit-Guild-Recruiting
I'm a CW. I asked proof for your claim that exploiters are bad players. I never questioned your skill or your team's, I don't even know you, and I never make assumptions about things I don't know.
You should follow the same principle...
For people that read this discussion just now, I am not for exploiting at all. I am just defending reality and have a neutral position:
- trash is unrewarding so it's understandable if somebody wants to skip it
- players that skip trash or sometimes exploit bosses are not necessarily bad, there is no correlation here; an exploiter can either be a low skill or very skilled player
- it is understandable if a party goes the path which is more efficient; at 9000 GS and relative new players, the path of least resistance might be exploiting; at 12K GS (excluding GF yadayada) and experienced (for real...) players, with augments, weapon enchants, a few good CWs etc., the path of least resistance would probably be "burn them all" and "AoE everything down".
So it is all coming down to efficiency.
The devs can EASILY remedy this situation, not by patching holes (i.e. fixing the symptom), but by correcting the root cause of exploiting - which is trash not worth the time, some bosses requiring more gear than they're supposed to and so on. Once the devs make the trash clearing very enticing and boss encounters challenging but doable at the entrance GS, it will all be fine. For hardcore players with hardcore gear, make challenge modes for dungeons with special rewards, and achievements that reward players for killing bosses in a special, very difficult way.
Simple.
As for your invitation, thanks, but I already have a team of geared guys which are very efficient at clearing everything in their way. One of the most fun situations is when we have an outsider that insists to exploit and we demonstrate to him that legit kills are faster. But then again... we already played a few months and are overgearing instances by far.
Once they make the trash drops decent, people will only farm trash -- until the market is flooded. The same people who do the trash runs will be the same people who have to cheat on the boss -- because they aren't good enough. Look at near every post on the forums of why they cheat.. its the same answer every time... game is too hard for them. Same exact thing I see when I log into neverwinter, game is just too hard for the cheaters.
Catalina Erantzo - GWF 13.9K GS
<Future> Guild on Dragon - Legit Non Exploit Guild (We are always recruiting great players)
Future Guild Recruitment Thread: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?475381-lt-Future-gt-Legit-Non-Exploit-Guild-Recruiting
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