The TR and the CW need to get more aggro and less ability to loose it. GWF and GF need rescue functions.. on main bosses. The GWF and GF are protection classes. As it is the other classes don't need protection. Every other game if a wiggle finger lets a nuke go boss is on his butt right now with intervention.
The TR and the CW need to get more aggro and less ability to loose it. GWF and GF need rescue functions.. on main bosses. The GWF and GF are protection classes. As it is the other classes don't need protection. Every other game if a wiggle finger lets a nuke go boss is on his butt right now with intervention.
The devs themselves said that the GWF class is supposedly the AoE class, which it is not. While GF simply isn't needed.
The devs themselves said that the GWF class is supposedly the AoE class, which it is not. While GF simply isn't needed.
I'm not saying your making this up, or that the many posters I've seen repeat this were being dishonest, but I'd love if somebody could link me the original post or quote so I can see the words for myself.
Forum search has yet to find anything other than players repeating some version of this or another.
"Every adventurer has two things in common: they don't like dying, and they love getting paid. The rest is just semantics." Brecken, famed mercenary of Baldur's Gate
The GWF and GF are protection classes. As it is the other classes don't need protection. Every other game if a wiggle finger lets a nuke go boss is on his butt right now with intervention.
Biased opinion based on the heavy armour usage? This idea is simply not fit into the GWF meta
I'm not saying your making this up, or that the many posters I've seen repeat this were being dishonest, but I'd love if somebody could link me the original post or quote so I can see the words for myself.
Forum search has yet to find anything other than players repeating some version of this or another.
One of the primary questions we received was regarding the design goal of the Great Weapon Fighter. From a systems design perspective, the Great Weapon Fighter is designed to be a class that excels at AoE DPS and taking hits while providing a bit of control to the fight.
If youre a whiny child, yeah, but this people has no clue of the class and theyre spoiled childs.
GFs are AWESOME, best tanking experience in 20 years of MMO gaming, powerful and balanced, extraordinary threat generation (i can control any amount of mobs in any instance while tanking the boss and i demand the mages to throw the singularities on my head during CN/MC boss battles to get all the agro in the room) ive made MC runs where between the 2 CWs and the DC didnt get to 500k damage received TOTAL, something in the lines off 200k 140k 120k and runs in CN where both mages got under 300k damage received, your only goal as a tank is to let the magic wand guys do their thingies and the DCs heal and look pretty, the class is not the problem, is the players, stupid awful players.
GWFs are kinda skewed, i agree, but their main problem is the lack of definite role, not the power of the class, the GWF is amazing fun to play, close to inmortal in PvP, really exciting in PvE and well specced and geared, a great asset in any party (yeah, even in CN, you can take the TRs role if you're good enough) then again, the majority of the fighters class players are kids, casual players, awful skill overall, and that's what hurts most the metagame, people know GWFs players are mostly stupidly bad.
GFs and GWFs are nice, the real problem of the game balance right now is High Vizier's CWs, but when singularity and HV set gets nerfed (and will be) people will still be awfully terribad at playing fighters, more so if you guys go on "strike" (lmao)
Biased opinion based on the heavy armour usage? This idea is simply not fit into the GWF meta
Not even hard to find this one.
Link please? I've seen that quoted, too. Much appreciated.
"Every adventurer has two things in common: they don't like dying, and they love getting paid. The rest is just semantics." Brecken, famed mercenary of Baldur's Gate
If youre a whiny child, yeah, but this people has no clue of the class and theyre spoiled childs.
GFs are AWESOME, best tanking experience in 20 years of MMO gaming, powerful and balanced, extraordinary threat generation (i can control any amount of mobs in any instance while tanking the boss and i demand the mages to throw the singularities on my head during CN/MC boss battles to get all the agro in the room) ive made MC runs where between the 2 CWs and the DC didnt get to 500k damage received TOTAL, something in the lines off 200k 140k 120k and runs in CN where both mages got under 300k damage received, your only goal as a tank is to let the magic wand guys do their thingies and the DCs heal and look pretty, the class is not the problem, is the players, stupid awful players.
GWFs are kinda skewed, i agree, but their main problem is the lack of definite role, not the power of the class, the GWF is amazing fun to play, close to inmortal in PvP, really exciting in PvE and well specced and geared, a great asset in any party (yeah, even in CN, you can take the TRs role if you're good enough) then again, the majority of the fighters class players are kids, casual players, awful skill overall, and that's what hurts most the metagame, people know GWFs players are mostly stupidly bad.
GFs and GWFs are nice, the real problem of the game balance right now is High Vizier's CWs, but when singularity and HV set gets nerfed (and will be) people will still be awfully terribad at playing fighters, more so if you guys go on "strike" (lmao)
This is exactly the kind of situation I want to see avoided. I'm a Main GF and yes I agree GFs have it alot better than the GWF and can perform valued functions in a group as Tanks. But I say this if Crytpic nerfs the CWs. I AM DONE. I quit not more I can't take another Nerf hammer to the group Dynamics of this game. Every nerf Pisses off all players since we have to work with all other players to beat these incredibly difficult dungeons.
And here is the real problem with your posts. In many MMO's figthers are often the easy to play straight forward class. Powerful and reliable in melee. The fact that in this game you need to be more skilled to play fighters in an already difficult game shows exactly what is wrong with the class.
Put it this way right now My Favorite MC group Setup is GF, DC, CW, CW, CW. I can grab almost any CW. I usually end up with one great one a medium one and a bad one. And we have no problem downing the Dragon. I hold the boss in the corner the DC Astral shield all three CW's in the middle of the map and they Ice knife val whenever she summons portal boom dead. No running around no dependance on a GWF to use a slam tactic that is completely alien in all other parts of the game. No need for a TR to have to drop his fight on the dragon to go DPS Val losing valuable DPS in the time it takes to run to her.
Since I am a good GF and can cotnrol mobs from the Agrro magnets that are CW this run goes smoothly. I have played this setup as a CW and as a DC, and I tell you when a bad GF comes to town the party breaks.
What I want to see is more teamwork between different classes. The reason why CW's work so well together is they all know each others moves and how to work together to use them properly. But if a GWF could take advantage of grouped mobs better than a 2nd CW to deal more damage they would be needed. And all a TR needs in MC is one decent AOE encounter and One decent Aoe Daily.
This could be fixed with a dagger throwing Paragon path that gets aoe moves like that. It would become the TR PVE setup. a TR with a little AOE would go along way
The very first thread in the Barrack session, right under your nose.
I appreciate that. I've read that before, but was more focused on the recent balance changes.
"Every adventurer has two things in common: they don't like dying, and they love getting paid. The rest is just semantics." Brecken, famed mercenary of Baldur's Gate
If youre a whiny child, yeah, but this people has no clue of the class and theyre spoiled childs.
GFs are AWESOME, best tanking experience in 20 years of MMO gaming, powerful and balanced, extraordinary threat generation (i can control any amount of mobs in any instance while tanking the boss and i demand the mages to throw the singularities on my head during CN/MC boss battles to get all the agro in the room) ive made MC runs where between the 2 CWs and the DC didnt get to 500k damage received TOTAL, something in the lines off 200k 140k 120k and runs in CN where both mages got under 300k damage received, your only goal as a tank is to let the magic wand guys do their thingies and the DCs heal and look pretty, the class is not the problem, is the players, stupid awful players.
GWFs are kinda skewed, i agree, but their main problem is the lack of definite role, not the power of the class, the GWF is amazing fun to play, close to inmortal in PvP, really exciting in PvE and well specced and geared, a great asset in any party (yeah, even in CN, you can take the TRs role if you're good enough) then again, the majority of the fighters class players are kids, casual players, awful skill overall, and that's what hurts most the metagame, people know GWFs players are mostly stupidly bad.
GFs and GWFs are nice, the real problem of the game balance right now is High Vizier's CWs, but when singularity and HV set gets nerfed (and will be) people will still be awfully terribad at playing fighters, more so if you guys go on "strike" (lmao)
There is a huge difference between GF and GWF! GF can perform with low gear, GWF cant! When u have 1 player perform from 100 then class has a rly big problem and needs to be adressed! Immortaly in pvp = uselessness in pve cause u dont have agro! Classes have 3 paths and they all should be viable. CW/TR/DC/GF paths can all be played and perform while GWF now has only 1 path! This is a game and it should be fairly easy to access and enjoy by the majority with any pick u make!
This is exactly the kind of situation I want to see avoided. I'm a Main GF and yes I agree GFs have it alot better than the GWF and can perform valued functions in a group as Tanks. But I say this if Crytpic nerfs the CWs. I AM DONE. I quit not more I can't take another Nerf hammer to the group Dynamics of this game. Every nerf Pisses off all players since we have to work with all other players to beat these incredibly difficult dungeons.
Why would you quit for that? leaving aside the "difficulty" (i dont find any content in this game difficult, only final boss of epic DV is really really difficult) adapting and change the dinamics, getting new challenges is the best part of any game, dont you see that 3 CWs for team is skewed and toxic for the game? is not your prefered group,, is everyone's! 3 HV CWs make all the content boring and too easy to even care, 3 minutes DRACO!!! is stupid, does not make sense, this must end! i love when there are balance changes, i loved the nerf of stalwart bulwark because all the GFs run the same set, i will love when they rework the mechanics (in module 2) i love changes, makes the metagame interesting, and will be good for GWFs, they really need a bone.
i love when there are balance changes, i loved the nerf of stalwart bulwark because all the GFs run the same set, i will love when they rework the mechanics (in module 2) i love changes, makes the metagame interesting, and will be good for GWFs, they really need a bone.
Well i guess u didnt have the set stacked up with expensive enchants and dye + transmutes! Cause i dont think u;ll be so happy about that lost ad... I;ve started farming t2 sets then disaster struck my miracle set on my DC! Lesson learned no more t2 set, then changes on t1 sets, i;m still afraid of changes for my archmage set on my cw!, k no more sets at all.. they can change at any time + blues are better anyway see smiting valiant / armor of insanity for GF(is the same for any other class minus cw)! and they are dirt cheap on ah Have u bought keys for plaguefire?! cause that was nerfed and nerfed again... so now i have something that is much worse then what i;ve bought! When things like this happen without any reimbursed is rly a bad thing!!
I had MAXED OUT on 8s and 9s in all slots stalwart, and spent about 1m ish switching to timeless... is virtual money from a game, big deal...
I run GPF or perfect bronzewood, when i need money in game i farm a little CN or T2 dungs, money in this game is so easy to get that is almost worthless, and the huge amounts needed to perfects/10s is not worth it once you have 9s...
I had MAXED OUT on 8s and 9s in all slots stalwart, and spent about 1m ish switching to timeless... is virtual money from a game, big deal...
I run GPF or perfect bronzewood, when i need money in game i farm a little CN or T2 dungs, money in this game is so easy to get that is almost worthless, and the huge amounts needed to perfects/10s is not worth it once you have 9s...
Is ok son, acceptance is part of the process! In the future u;ll get stronger and they wont be able to bully u so easy!
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slayorianMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Why would you quit for that? leaving aside the "difficulty" (i dont find any content in this game difficult, only final boss of epic DV is really really difficult) adapting and change the dinamics, getting new challenges is the best part of any game, dont you see that 3 CWs for team is skewed and toxic for the game? is not your prefered group,, is everyone's! 3 HV CWs make all the content boring and too easy to even care, 3 minutes DRACO!!! is stupid, does not make sense, this must end! i love when there are balance changes, i loved the nerf of stalwart bulwark because all the GFs run the same set, i will love when they rework the mechanics (in module 2) i love changes, makes the metagame interesting, and will be good for GWFs, they really need a bone.
Why would you quit for that? leaving aside the "difficulty" (i dont find any content in this game difficult, only final boss of epic DV is really really difficult) adapting and change the dinamics, getting new challenges is the best part of any game, dont you see that 3 CWs for team is skewed and toxic for the game? is not your prefered group,, is everyone's! 3 HV CWs make all the content boring and too easy to even care, 3 minutes DRACO!!! is stupid, does not make sense, this must end! i love when there are balance changes, i loved the nerf of stalwart bulwark because all the GFs run the same set, i will love when they rework the mechanics (in module 2) i love changes, makes the metagame interesting, and will be good for GWFs, they really need a bone.
I guess I was not too clear. I dont have a problem with an HV set nerf, I do have a problem with a CW ability nerf like Sing or there AP or anything like that. the last CW nerf. on AP gain only convinced players to play with More CW. I try other class combinations in MC alot. Since hey as a GF its a place I can actually go too. And yet 3 CW's HV or No is the way to go for MC, other classes can't hack it period. GWF's are useless in boss fights, I have to tank boss and adds as GF to protect the group they can't get any threat off CW's or TR's at all. TR's are pretty poor in anything but a boss fight. I've had groups with 2 TR that have leavers before the first catapult is downed because the CW leaves when he dies to adds. since things are not dying fast enough for him to survive. And I am awesom at holding threat. Just impossible to tank everything.
I once tried a 3 GWF team in MC with my DC, CW, GWF, GWF, GWF. And these where 13-14k Super GWF's and so sad, could not even down Malabog, very long fights on trash, CW died so much, no threat control. Even the GWF's knew they where the problem. And yet a team like that should Own adds. As GWFs are menat o kill them.
This game has nerfed all the classes but CW into the ground. The only reason why CW is doing so well, even without HV is because all there encounters and daily powers are usefl at level 60. You can't say the same thing about any other class. Each class have powers that are never touched and for the GWF half of their powers are useless.
The unused powers need to be buffed so the other classes have more options for different areas of game play making them more uselful in the situations where they fall behind. If you use those powers wisely and spec into a wipder range of pwoers to be a more well rounded useful player.
nerf Nerf Nerf, will only kill the game, only HAMSTER of more players and only cause more players to leave. I dont care if you are not a CW and think that nerfing them is a good thing. Most of the players now are CW, Even me now. I have a great lv 60 CW. And if rthey get nerfed hard say good bye to the neverwinter player base.
Well, my gaming experience is kinda different, i dont remember the last time i failed in a MC run, but i do take ALL the agro on the instance and i cant remember the last time i lost a mob on a fight, boss or not, so my CWs and DCs play on easy mode, and all fights are easy, in fact, a couple pulls of random mobs (the one with the 2 catapults before first boss, and the ones inside the castle with 2 fomorian mofos) can be trickier than boss fights, but that's not the issue, the issue is right now, singularity is just too dominating in PVE to the point of making all the content pointless, i ask for a CW nerf? nah, i ask for balance, real balance, might it be done by just buffing all the other classes? seems way harder and pointless, at the end, singularity will still be stupid good, but im open to all sugestions that allow ALL THE CONTENT be doable with any combination of toons, so metagame is healthier.
Singularity isn't a power that does a lot of damage, it simply groups opponents together. What you do with them after that is up to you Nerfing CW AoE damage would be the logical thing for you to ask for... It's also completely useless against CC immune elite adds, of which there are quite a few. Essentially, it's a trash clearer.
The way the dungeons are structured is the problem. Huge numbers of mobs are made for AoE spellcasters. Until they come up with a different set of mechanics for the game we're stuck with it.
Tele Savalas, Dwarf Thaumaturge CW
Putting the Buff into Debuff since 2013 \o/ (Does that even make sense)?
Wow did not expect this thread to have 2000 views and over 50 posts when I left it how many weeks ago. And to find it still on the first page is mind boggling.
The devs need to take action on the GWF situation.
If they are so concerned with nerfing the GWF's damage they need to make them full tanks. There are more Damage dealers being released soon. But no new tanks. Changing the GWF into a full tank hopefully will not hurt the GF too much. So this way both tanks and damage dealers have competition for party spots. If the devs actually make tanking useful this will be balanced.
All GWF's need to be full tanks is Gaining AP for taking damage just like a GF, and massive threat boosts to the moves, Daring Shout, Come and Get it and Bravery.
I have seen timeless GF's deal damage on par with avatar of War GWF's so our damage is still about the same, just GWF's a little better at AOE and GF's better at single target.
Wow did not expect this thread to have 2000 views and over 50 posts when I left it how many weeks ago. And to find it still on the first page is mind boggling.
The devs need to take action on the GWF situation.
If they are so concerned with nerfing the GWF's damage they need to make them full tanks. There are more Damage dealers being released soon. But no new tanks. Changing the GWF into a full tank hopefully will not hurt the GF too much. So this way both tanks and damage dealers have competition for party spots. If the devs actually make tanking useful this will be balanced.
All GWF's need to be full tanks is Gaining AP for taking damage just like a GF, and massive threat boosts to the moves, Daring Shout, Come and Get it and Bravery.
I have seen timeless GF's deal damage on par with avatar of War GWF's so our damage is still about the same, just GWF's a little better at AOE and GF's better at single target.
If this ever happens, I'm sure there won't be left many people playing the class.
if devs werent able to make a single boss fight that doesnt consist of killing/kiting countless numbers of adds, do you think they can fix something ?
What would you want to be done? Dancing content? Poker?
Killing/Kiting isn't really what should be fixed. CW Crowd Control is currently working, same goes for TR damage. GWF itself isn't fit for the content, with some rare exceptions (some players will always outperform others) due the fact our DPS output nor CC are enough to do the content. and this blame is to be put into the poor design of the class.
if devs werent able to make a single boss fight that doesnt consist of killing/kiting countless numbers of adds, do you think they can fix something ?
Uhm, MC 3/3?
Only adds that spawn are when you don't have a good GWF to make it easy and slam/interrupt her, or enough powerful burst damage to take out the portal.
Course, it's also the best boss battle in the whole game, and the devs seem to understand that from their recent interview and how they mentioned the positive responses to Malabog's Castle and the changes to boss AI and pattern.
"Every adventurer has two things in common: they don't like dying, and they love getting paid. The rest is just semantics." Brecken, famed mercenary of Baldur's Gate
our DPS output nor CC are enough to do the content
And not tanky either. And not able to generate AP any more. It's the combination of lack of damage/tanking/cc/AP that makes the gwf intrinsically unplayable. Situationnally he is also unplayable because of how the dungeons are designed.
There is currently a transmutation bug affecting the TRs only (b/c they have off-hand weapon). We'll the what the devs will fix first, the one little bugling on their beloved TR class, or any one of the oh so large number of bossbugs they've cursed the gwf with.
I decided to do a little GWF assessment. All of this is my experience and opinion. I rank each section in stars, * through *****, as in where I feel we stand against the other four classes.
Class Special Ability = ****
We have Unstoppable, which speeds up our at-will attacks, increases our damage resistance between 25-50%, and breaks and makes us immune to CC. It lasts about 5 seconds, and requires us to take damage to build determination. With the Destroyer's Purpose capstone of the Destroyer feat line, we can generate determination while doing damage. And with the class feature Steadfast Determination, we can generate determination slowly (very slowly) while we are in-combat. I think our special is better than any other except possibly TR's, due to the fact that stealth (the ability to engage and disengage) will always remain the strongest ability of any game, in any game.
Single Target Damage = ****
We do great single-target damage, if we sacrifice our tank. Using the critical heroic feats, high strength/con, most of the destroyer line with student of the sword from instigator, and a Valiant or Avatar of War armor set, you can do single-target damage in the range of 20k crits on encounters and dailies (which are basically encounters). Just use your mobility to run in and out of the fight, and don't rely heavily on at-wills. We can be beaten in single-target damage by average TR's, especially if we use unstoppable at every possible opportunity for extra damage output.
Taking Damage (the first half of tanking) = *****
We have an amazing tank, with a deflect focus and defense second, that can be extended further for short periods of time using Unstoppable and dodge abilities like 'Mighty Leap'. We buff ourselves with high Con and Dex, toughen ourselves with the heroic defensive feats, and most of the sentinel line plus the Unstoppable Recovery from instigator. We fit a Titan set with full regen support and lifesteal, and should rely heavily on restoring strike, giving us the best self-heal capabilities in the game. Our damage is on par with a tank GF, which means worse than a damage DC, but due to the high deflect chance and natural defense bonuses, we end up with a **** good defense even when unstoppable does pop. That said, high deflect generally means you get unstoppable less often. I feel that our tank is arguably better than GF's simply because we have such a mix of dodge, deflect, and defense, and don't need to rely on our special ability to get there.
Control = *** (looks worse than it is)
As far as CC's are concerned, we have the most powerful CC (knockdown, which prevents the character from acting, forces then into an animation just to stand up that takes almost 2 seconds to complete, and grants us and our friends combat advantage), which through recovery and the instigator line can be reduced to an 8 second cooldown (some say 6). Our dailies Avalanche of Steel, Crescendo and Savage Advance also end in prone. Flourish, Slam and Crescendo includes a basic stun. Not So Fast and our Valiant armor set include a slow (Valiant has 5%-15% slow on encounter use). Roar and Slam include interrupts. And finally, Roar pushes opponents, and Come and Get it pulls them. I think we are CC heavy, but TR's beat us with the various combinations of stealth and 'fire and forget' CC's, and GF's have the top hands down with their heavy reliance and use of Prone.
AOE Damage = **
Our AOE is there, but damage is lower than all other classes that have AOE attacks. But, we do have a lot of AOE attacks, and some even benefit from feats. I give us a ** simply because I'm not sure if DC's have AOE's. If DC's do, I'd give us a *.
Debuffs = *
Our debuffs are poor, outside of student of the sword, which lowers our enemies defense by way of our crit.
Buffs = *
We can't buff our friends at all, meaning we don't make our friends better (takedown could be considered a buff, and so could mark, by means of the fact that they make it easier for our buddies to kill things).
Heal Other = *
We can't heal our friends at all.
Movement = *****
We have great movement options, arguably the best in the game, with sprint being the longest movement ability of any class. We also have Punishing Charge and Mighty Leap, and heroic and instigator feats focused on giving us more sprint and movement speed. As well, our Valiant armor set boost movement speed.
AP and Dailies = *
Our AP gain is easily half the speed of any other class, and our dailies do as much damage as certain rogue and CW encounter powers (though our dailies do usually include a bunch of damage and cc opportunities).
Threat (the other half of tanking) = *
We have limited threat generation, supported most by three feats in the sentinel tree who's dual bonuses could be considered mostly a waste. DC's get threat by healing, CW's and TR's gain threat through damage, and GF's get threat through abilities. Outside of PvP, we simply aren't threatening.
Self Buffs = ***
We do have two self buffs, including Unstoppable and Battle Fury. Essentially, I'm not sure how other classes buff themselves.
PvP Capability = ****
Only beaten by TR's, I feel GWF's are the standard in PvP that other classes need to be buffed to. Specifically CW usefullness in Arena, and DC's all around. And possibly, TR's brought down to, especially in Arena.
PvE Capability = *
Seriously. We can be great players and do any dungeon (did Dwarf King the other night in a 4 GWF / 1 CW group just fine). But because of the min-max of builds, there's always someone better than us. We don't do the AOE we're expected to. We don't build threat very well, so no matter how much damage we can take, we don't usually get it. And our CC's and utility abilities aren't necessary when they are overshadowed so strongly by CW's and GF's. As single target support for bosses and mini-bosses, we still do well, but two TR's can do that just fine.
"Every adventurer has two things in common: they don't like dying, and they love getting paid. The rest is just semantics." Brecken, famed mercenary of Baldur's Gate
What would you want to be done? Dancing content? Poker?
Killing/Kiting isn't really what should be fixed. CW Crowd Control is currently working, same goes for TR damage. GWF itself isn't fit for the content, with some rare exceptions (some players will always outperform others) due the fact our DPS output nor CC are enough to do the content. and this blame is to be put into the poor design of the class.
check youtube for TERA/Vindictus boss fights for what CAN be done with action mmorpg bosses. ofc good players can solo many of them but that doesnt mean they arent challenging even to parties, i like this game, but boss fights are simply annoying and lazy, instead of awesome and rewarding, worst examples are FH final and 2nd in Karr
Only adds that spawn are when you don't have a good GWF to make it easy and slam/interrupt her, or enough powerful burst damage to take out the portal.
Course, it's also the best boss battle in the whole game, and the devs seem to understand that from their recent interview and how they mentioned the positive responses to Malabog's Castle and the changes to boss AI and pattern.
Um no your wrong GWF are still completely useless even in the MC boss Fight. I run Legit Karrundax alot. Group, GF, DC, CW, CW, CW. Why? because. malestrom of chaos also stuns Val's casting just like slam. I have tried a dozen times with a dozen different GWF's to perform the slam stun trick. And not a single one could pull it off. GWF just cannot generate enough AP even with 3k recovery to block all of val's portals. While with 3 CW;s only one CW goes maelstrom the others go iceknife and if a malestrom is not ready ranged DPS for the win and val goes down.
If GWF's could tank they would have a use. I know for a fact GWFS damage is on the same level as GF's. GWF's need something to be a valued choice in party whether that be full tank, More Aoe damage than a CW or more control/buff/utility powers. to aid all party members.
Yeah I get it asking for GWFs' to be full tanks. Eventually there will be more tank classes. What happens to GF when Paladin comes along? What happens to TR when Ranger comes and this is just around the corner.
GWFs right now are dead, I feel bad not taking them to my dungeons but I want a group that can beat Dragon legit
If GWF's could tank they would have a use. I know for a fact GWFS damage is on the same level as GF's. GWF's need something to be a valued choice in party whether that be full tank, More Aoe damage than a CW or more control/buff/utility powers. to aid all party members.
Yeah I get it asking for GWFs' to be full tanks. Eventually there will be more tank classes. What happens to GF when Paladin comes along? What happens to TR when Ranger comes and this is just around the corner.
This is why i am so confused of their choice of roar nerf! Gwf were rly good as tanks! Btw noticed a small change yesterday on my nth respec on gwf, Roar generates determination! Wonder what happend to patch notes?! Somehow it is an improvement in ap generation as now more or less u are in unstoppable all the time roar+daring shout so 25% increase ap! But GWF still needs more threat, no matter what i do i just cant keep mobs next to me, unlike the GF who is all in one: great tank, great dps and extremely mobile due to LS and TR, u only need blue gear, rank6 runes and some low lvl epics to do that! GWF is rly miles away!!
Comments
The devs themselves said that the GWF class is supposedly the AoE class, which it is not. While GF simply isn't needed.
I'm not saying your making this up, or that the many posters I've seen repeat this were being dishonest, but I'd love if somebody could link me the original post or quote so I can see the words for myself.
Forum search has yet to find anything other than players repeating some version of this or another.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
Biased opinion based on the heavy armour usage? This idea is simply not fit into the GWF meta
Not even hard to find this one.
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GFs are AWESOME, best tanking experience in 20 years of MMO gaming, powerful and balanced, extraordinary threat generation (i can control any amount of mobs in any instance while tanking the boss and i demand the mages to throw the singularities on my head during CN/MC boss battles to get all the agro in the room) ive made MC runs where between the 2 CWs and the DC didnt get to 500k damage received TOTAL, something in the lines off 200k 140k 120k and runs in CN where both mages got under 300k damage received, your only goal as a tank is to let the magic wand guys do their thingies and the DCs heal and look pretty, the class is not the problem, is the players, stupid awful players.
GWFs are kinda skewed, i agree, but their main problem is the lack of definite role, not the power of the class, the GWF is amazing fun to play, close to inmortal in PvP, really exciting in PvE and well specced and geared, a great asset in any party (yeah, even in CN, you can take the TRs role if you're good enough) then again, the majority of the fighters class players are kids, casual players, awful skill overall, and that's what hurts most the metagame, people know GWFs players are mostly stupidly bad.
GFs and GWFs are nice, the real problem of the game balance right now is High Vizier's CWs, but when singularity and HV set gets nerfed (and will be) people will still be awfully terribad at playing fighters, more so if you guys go on "strike" (lmao)
Link please? I've seen that quoted, too. Much appreciated.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
This is exactly the kind of situation I want to see avoided. I'm a Main GF and yes I agree GFs have it alot better than the GWF and can perform valued functions in a group as Tanks. But I say this if Crytpic nerfs the CWs. I AM DONE. I quit not more I can't take another Nerf hammer to the group Dynamics of this game. Every nerf Pisses off all players since we have to work with all other players to beat these incredibly difficult dungeons.
And here is the real problem with your posts. In many MMO's figthers are often the easy to play straight forward class. Powerful and reliable in melee. The fact that in this game you need to be more skilled to play fighters in an already difficult game shows exactly what is wrong with the class.
Put it this way right now My Favorite MC group Setup is GF, DC, CW, CW, CW. I can grab almost any CW. I usually end up with one great one a medium one and a bad one. And we have no problem downing the Dragon. I hold the boss in the corner the DC Astral shield all three CW's in the middle of the map and they Ice knife val whenever she summons portal boom dead. No running around no dependance on a GWF to use a slam tactic that is completely alien in all other parts of the game. No need for a TR to have to drop his fight on the dragon to go DPS Val losing valuable DPS in the time it takes to run to her.
Since I am a good GF and can cotnrol mobs from the Agrro magnets that are CW this run goes smoothly. I have played this setup as a CW and as a DC, and I tell you when a bad GF comes to town the party breaks.
What I want to see is more teamwork between different classes. The reason why CW's work so well together is they all know each others moves and how to work together to use them properly. But if a GWF could take advantage of grouped mobs better than a 2nd CW to deal more damage they would be needed. And all a TR needs in MC is one decent AOE encounter and One decent Aoe Daily.
This could be fixed with a dagger throwing Paragon path that gets aoe moves like that. It would become the TR PVE setup. a TR with a little AOE would go along way
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?451891-Clarifications-and-Additions-to-Great-Weapon-Fighter-Updates
The very first thread in the Barrack session, right under your nose.
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I appreciate that. I've read that before, but was more focused on the recent balance changes.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
There is a huge difference between GF and GWF! GF can perform with low gear, GWF cant! When u have 1 player perform from 100 then class has a rly big problem and needs to be adressed! Immortaly in pvp = uselessness in pve cause u dont have agro! Classes have 3 paths and they all should be viable. CW/TR/DC/GF paths can all be played and perform while GWF now has only 1 path! This is a game and it should be fairly easy to access and enjoy by the majority with any pick u make!
Why would you quit for that? leaving aside the "difficulty" (i dont find any content in this game difficult, only final boss of epic DV is really really difficult) adapting and change the dinamics, getting new challenges is the best part of any game, dont you see that 3 CWs for team is skewed and toxic for the game? is not your prefered group,, is everyone's! 3 HV CWs make all the content boring and too easy to even care, 3 minutes DRACO!!! is stupid, does not make sense, this must end! i love when there are balance changes, i loved the nerf of stalwart bulwark because all the GFs run the same set, i will love when they rework the mechanics (in module 2) i love changes, makes the metagame interesting, and will be good for GWFs, they really need a bone.
Well i guess u didnt have the set stacked up with expensive enchants and dye + transmutes! Cause i dont think u;ll be so happy about that lost ad... I;ve started farming t2 sets then disaster struck my miracle set on my DC! Lesson learned no more t2 set, then changes on t1 sets, i;m still afraid of changes for my archmage set on my cw!, k no more sets at all.. they can change at any time + blues are better anyway see smiting valiant / armor of insanity for GF(is the same for any other class minus cw)! and they are dirt cheap on ah
I run GPF or perfect bronzewood, when i need money in game i farm a little CN or T2 dungs, money in this game is so easy to get that is almost worthless, and the huge amounts needed to perfects/10s is not worth it once you have 9s...
Is ok son, acceptance is part of the process! In the future u;ll get stronger and they wont be able to bully u so easy!
But, they already boned GWFs... many, times over.
I guess I was not too clear. I dont have a problem with an HV set nerf, I do have a problem with a CW ability nerf like Sing or there AP or anything like that. the last CW nerf. on AP gain only convinced players to play with More CW. I try other class combinations in MC alot. Since hey as a GF its a place I can actually go too. And yet 3 CW's HV or No is the way to go for MC, other classes can't hack it period. GWF's are useless in boss fights, I have to tank boss and adds as GF to protect the group they can't get any threat off CW's or TR's at all. TR's are pretty poor in anything but a boss fight. I've had groups with 2 TR that have leavers before the first catapult is downed because the CW leaves when he dies to adds. since things are not dying fast enough for him to survive. And I am awesom at holding threat. Just impossible to tank everything.
I once tried a 3 GWF team in MC with my DC, CW, GWF, GWF, GWF. And these where 13-14k Super GWF's and so sad, could not even down Malabog, very long fights on trash, CW died so much, no threat control. Even the GWF's knew they where the problem. And yet a team like that should Own adds. As GWFs are menat o kill them.
This game has nerfed all the classes but CW into the ground. The only reason why CW is doing so well, even without HV is because all there encounters and daily powers are usefl at level 60. You can't say the same thing about any other class. Each class have powers that are never touched and for the GWF half of their powers are useless.
The unused powers need to be buffed so the other classes have more options for different areas of game play making them more uselful in the situations where they fall behind. If you use those powers wisely and spec into a wipder range of pwoers to be a more well rounded useful player.
nerf Nerf Nerf, will only kill the game, only HAMSTER of more players and only cause more players to leave. I dont care if you are not a CW and think that nerfing them is a good thing. Most of the players now are CW, Even me now. I have a great lv 60 CW. And if rthey get nerfed hard say good bye to the neverwinter player base.
Or what is left of it.
The way the dungeons are structured is the problem. Huge numbers of mobs are made for AoE spellcasters. Until they come up with a different set of mechanics for the game we're stuck with it.
Problem is, no one will notice.
The devs need to take action on the GWF situation.
If they are so concerned with nerfing the GWF's damage they need to make them full tanks. There are more Damage dealers being released soon. But no new tanks. Changing the GWF into a full tank hopefully will not hurt the GF too much. So this way both tanks and damage dealers have competition for party spots. If the devs actually make tanking useful this will be balanced.
All GWF's need to be full tanks is Gaining AP for taking damage just like a GF, and massive threat boosts to the moves, Daring Shout, Come and Get it and Bravery.
I have seen timeless GF's deal damage on par with avatar of War GWF's so our damage is still about the same, just GWF's a little better at AOE and GF's better at single target.
If this ever happens, I'm sure there won't be left many people playing the class.
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What would you want to be done? Dancing content? Poker?
Killing/Kiting isn't really what should be fixed. CW Crowd Control is currently working, same goes for TR damage. GWF itself isn't fit for the content, with some rare exceptions (some players will always outperform others) due the fact our DPS output nor CC are enough to do the content. and this blame is to be put into the poor design of the class.
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Uhm, MC 3/3?
Only adds that spawn are when you don't have a good GWF to make it easy and slam/interrupt her, or enough powerful burst damage to take out the portal.
Course, it's also the best boss battle in the whole game, and the devs seem to understand that from their recent interview and how they mentioned the positive responses to Malabog's Castle and the changes to boss AI and pattern.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
There is currently a transmutation bug affecting the TRs only (b/c they have off-hand weapon). We'll the what the devs will fix first, the one little bugling on their beloved TR class, or any one of the oh so large number of bossbugs they've cursed the gwf with.
Class Special Ability = ****
We have Unstoppable, which speeds up our at-will attacks, increases our damage resistance between 25-50%, and breaks and makes us immune to CC. It lasts about 5 seconds, and requires us to take damage to build determination. With the Destroyer's Purpose capstone of the Destroyer feat line, we can generate determination while doing damage. And with the class feature Steadfast Determination, we can generate determination slowly (very slowly) while we are in-combat. I think our special is better than any other except possibly TR's, due to the fact that stealth (the ability to engage and disengage) will always remain the strongest ability of any game, in any game.
Single Target Damage = ****
We do great single-target damage, if we sacrifice our tank. Using the critical heroic feats, high strength/con, most of the destroyer line with student of the sword from instigator, and a Valiant or Avatar of War armor set, you can do single-target damage in the range of 20k crits on encounters and dailies (which are basically encounters). Just use your mobility to run in and out of the fight, and don't rely heavily on at-wills. We can be beaten in single-target damage by average TR's, especially if we use unstoppable at every possible opportunity for extra damage output.
Taking Damage (the first half of tanking) = *****
We have an amazing tank, with a deflect focus and defense second, that can be extended further for short periods of time using Unstoppable and dodge abilities like 'Mighty Leap'. We buff ourselves with high Con and Dex, toughen ourselves with the heroic defensive feats, and most of the sentinel line plus the Unstoppable Recovery from instigator. We fit a Titan set with full regen support and lifesteal, and should rely heavily on restoring strike, giving us the best self-heal capabilities in the game. Our damage is on par with a tank GF, which means worse than a damage DC, but due to the high deflect chance and natural defense bonuses, we end up with a **** good defense even when unstoppable does pop. That said, high deflect generally means you get unstoppable less often. I feel that our tank is arguably better than GF's simply because we have such a mix of dodge, deflect, and defense, and don't need to rely on our special ability to get there.
Control = *** (looks worse than it is)
As far as CC's are concerned, we have the most powerful CC (knockdown, which prevents the character from acting, forces then into an animation just to stand up that takes almost 2 seconds to complete, and grants us and our friends combat advantage), which through recovery and the instigator line can be reduced to an 8 second cooldown (some say 6). Our dailies Avalanche of Steel, Crescendo and Savage Advance also end in prone. Flourish, Slam and Crescendo includes a basic stun. Not So Fast and our Valiant armor set include a slow (Valiant has 5%-15% slow on encounter use). Roar and Slam include interrupts. And finally, Roar pushes opponents, and Come and Get it pulls them. I think we are CC heavy, but TR's beat us with the various combinations of stealth and 'fire and forget' CC's, and GF's have the top hands down with their heavy reliance and use of Prone.
AOE Damage = **
Our AOE is there, but damage is lower than all other classes that have AOE attacks. But, we do have a lot of AOE attacks, and some even benefit from feats. I give us a ** simply because I'm not sure if DC's have AOE's. If DC's do, I'd give us a *.
Debuffs = *
Our debuffs are poor, outside of student of the sword, which lowers our enemies defense by way of our crit.
Buffs = *
We can't buff our friends at all, meaning we don't make our friends better (takedown could be considered a buff, and so could mark, by means of the fact that they make it easier for our buddies to kill things).
Heal Other = *
We can't heal our friends at all.
Movement = *****
We have great movement options, arguably the best in the game, with sprint being the longest movement ability of any class. We also have Punishing Charge and Mighty Leap, and heroic and instigator feats focused on giving us more sprint and movement speed. As well, our Valiant armor set boost movement speed.
AP and Dailies = *
Our AP gain is easily half the speed of any other class, and our dailies do as much damage as certain rogue and CW encounter powers (though our dailies do usually include a bunch of damage and cc opportunities).
Threat (the other half of tanking) = *
We have limited threat generation, supported most by three feats in the sentinel tree who's dual bonuses could be considered mostly a waste. DC's get threat by healing, CW's and TR's gain threat through damage, and GF's get threat through abilities. Outside of PvP, we simply aren't threatening.
Self Buffs = ***
We do have two self buffs, including Unstoppable and Battle Fury. Essentially, I'm not sure how other classes buff themselves.
PvP Capability = ****
Only beaten by TR's, I feel GWF's are the standard in PvP that other classes need to be buffed to. Specifically CW usefullness in Arena, and DC's all around. And possibly, TR's brought down to, especially in Arena.
PvE Capability = *
Seriously. We can be great players and do any dungeon (did Dwarf King the other night in a 4 GWF / 1 CW group just fine). But because of the min-max of builds, there's always someone better than us. We don't do the AOE we're expected to. We don't build threat very well, so no matter how much damage we can take, we don't usually get it. And our CC's and utility abilities aren't necessary when they are overshadowed so strongly by CW's and GF's. As single target support for bosses and mini-bosses, we still do well, but two TR's can do that just fine.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
check youtube for TERA/Vindictus boss fights for what CAN be done with action mmorpg bosses. ofc good players can solo many of them but that doesnt mean they arent challenging even to parties, i like this game, but boss fights are simply annoying and lazy, instead of awesome and rewarding, worst examples are FH final and 2nd in Karr
Um no your wrong GWF are still completely useless even in the MC boss Fight. I run Legit Karrundax alot. Group, GF, DC, CW, CW, CW. Why? because. malestrom of chaos also stuns Val's casting just like slam. I have tried a dozen times with a dozen different GWF's to perform the slam stun trick. And not a single one could pull it off. GWF just cannot generate enough AP even with 3k recovery to block all of val's portals. While with 3 CW;s only one CW goes maelstrom the others go iceknife and if a malestrom is not ready ranged DPS for the win and val goes down.
If GWF's could tank they would have a use. I know for a fact GWFS damage is on the same level as GF's. GWF's need something to be a valued choice in party whether that be full tank, More Aoe damage than a CW or more control/buff/utility powers. to aid all party members.
Yeah I get it asking for GWFs' to be full tanks. Eventually there will be more tank classes. What happens to GF when Paladin comes along? What happens to TR when Ranger comes and this is just around the corner.
GWFs right now are dead, I feel bad not taking them to my dungeons but I want a group that can beat Dragon legit
This is why i am so confused of their choice of roar nerf! Gwf were rly good as tanks! Btw noticed a small change yesterday on my nth respec on gwf, Roar generates determination! Wonder what happend to patch notes?! Somehow it is an improvement in ap generation as now more or less u are in unstoppable all the time roar+daring shout so 25% increase ap! But GWF still needs more threat, no matter what i do i just cant keep mobs next to me, unlike the GF who is all in one: great tank, great dps and extremely mobile due to LS and TR, u only need blue gear, rank6 runes and some low lvl epics to do that! GWF is rly miles away!!