I've just looked through the list of available tags and they missed one. Devs, if you're reading this, please add 'Easy' as one of the tags. If I was tagging my own quests, that's the tag I'd want to use.
When searching for a new quest to play, 'Easy' is the first term I use. I think other people search for it too. I've added the word easy in all my quest descriptions and I've had no trouble getting plays and reviews, even though I don't advertize or promote my quests.
So I think 'Easy' is a very important search tag to have.
You do have it - 'challenging' is the qualifier. Instead of searching for 'easy' you select 'challenging' in the "Include none of these tags" box and voila! you have your 'easy' quests.
You do have it - 'challenging' is the qualifier. Instead of searching for 'easy' you select 'challenging' in the "Include none of these tags" box and voila! you have your 'easy' quests.
Haha now that's a clever idea! I might have to try this
0
agentjasporMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, SilverstarsPosts: 0Arc User
Letting players set the Tag is the very worst case scenario.
Best case scenario is to allow the Author to preselect the range of Tags, and then let players choose from that range.
All The Best
A quote from the post by badbotlimit, which I linked and karitr quoted fully earlier in this thread:
"Here are two things that we struggled with and discussed.
Almost immediately the tags added by users are perceived as "incorrect" by the author
Almost immediately the tags added by the author are perceived as "incorrect" and ignored by the player
The perception in both of these cases is that the system is broken
Having two sources with different investment levels adding qualifiers to the content presents a potential conflict for the user. The user looses confidence in the system when it appears the system is broken."
All the problems we have seen with dishonest reviews and ratings will now be multiplied by the Tag system.
Soon as people start to see which Tag the majority of players avoid that Tag will become a weapon to keep people from getting plays.
How so? None of the tags have negative connotations automatically associated with them. If your quest gets tagged with something that's not necessarily appropriate, the worst case scenario is someone saying, "Hey, this quest was tagged as Humor but I didn't think it was funny at all! 1 star!" But on the flip side, more tags mean a wider range of searches that it will show up on, and at least some of those people who play it will not be unreasonable jerks who rate it low because of a tag mismatch. (Of course those will always be out there... We still see people giving one star reviews because they didn't like the end loot!)
And don't forget that we can now see exactly how many people tagged a quest a certain way. Oh, yours came up when I searched Humor? Let me see the breakdown. Hrmmm, only 2 people have selected Humor while 250 have selected Dramatic. Yeah, this probably isn't what I'm looking for.
I'm sorry, but no matter how you spin it, I'm not going to agree that the new tagging system is a bad thing.
Haha now that's a clever idea! I might have to try this
It should work eventually... But right now, it's going to give you every single quest, since none of them have been tagged as "Challenging" yet. I literally just tried it, and not a single quest comes up as "Challenging" yet.
It's going to take time for the "Include none of these tags" search criteria to work effectively.
Haha now that's a clever idea! I might have to try this
Yeah it's looking really cool. I think there is only the one quest with tags, which I added lol. But, hey, it's working. Just need more players adding tags. I'm a bit reluctant to tag more at the moment as only the featured UGCs have been published, and they don't need a leg up as it were.
You can still do a quick search too...so as I said before a searching for "Dwarven" will bring up Anton's quest and the Wobbly leg too. More should be added to that list as they get republished. I'm quite optimistic now.
It's going to take time for the "Include none of these tags" search criteria to work effectively.
Not really. Already the search is working based off the tags I added to just one quest.
Edit: I didn't use challenging for the quest I tagged, but I asked to exclude the 'story' quest and it was removed from the list, so it's instantaneous.
0
agentjasporMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, SilverstarsPosts: 0Arc User
Not really. Already the search is working based off the tags I added to just one quest.
Right, for "include." But for "exclude" it's going to take time. Because doing an "exclude challenging" is going to give you every single quest right now because zero have been tagged as challenging.
Right, for "include." But for "exclude" it's going to take time. Because doing an "exclude challenging" is going to give you every single quest right now because zero have been tagged as challenging.
Sorry agent, I responded to this in an edit. It's only going to need one tag of 'challenging' to start working; it really is that fast and powerful. No doubt people are busy running the new content, so the Foundry will take a bit of a dip, but once regular dailys start once more, the tags will come thick and fast.
I don't see this as that much better then the old way. Here is my reasoning...
You publish a new quest. And you get you required 5 reviews to get onto the new list. And those 5 reviews are broken down as 3 on one tag and 2 of another. Now the more plays you get the will probably expand to more tags and higher numbers on the tags. Right? Now I have my required 20 plays to get on the daily eligible. Now I have a quest which is tagged with 5 different tags. A player does a search for quests and happens to pick one of the tags that my quest is tagged as.
Now my question/concern is this.
1. How many quests show up on the list that the player searched for? I doubt it will be every quest since there will be, possibly, thousands of quests.
2. Will it be one long list like it was on the New list?
3. How will the search determine what quests are on the list?
4. Will there be an order the the list? (Such as the quests with the most tags first, etc)
The more quests tagged the worse this could get depending on how the list is made. I could easily see this becoming a SSDD thing. The most popular quests on the top of the search list and the one that struggle to get plays not even on the search list.
So given my concerns, how is this system any better than what we had? I guess only time will tell.
Narayan.
Sweet Water and Light Laughter Till Next We Meet.
Narayan
0
agentjasporMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, SilverstarsPosts: 0Arc User
Sorry agent, I responded to this in an edit. It's only going to need one tag of 'challenging' to start working; it really is that fast and powerful. No doubt people are busy running the new content, so the Foundry will take a bit of a dip, but once regular dailys start once more, the tags will come thick and fast.
Right, I understand that the tag is instantly considered in the searches. I'm just saying the "exclude" search criteria isn't going to be incredibly helpful until we get a whole lot of tags out there. You excluded "Story" and it removed the one quest that you tagged as Story (which is great!), but it included every other single quest in the entire world. (Well, those republished to this point anyways.) There are plenty of other quests that have tons of story that haven't been tagged at all yet, let alone as "Story," so those will still show up in the results of your "exclude Story" search. That's all I'm saying.
I don't see this as that much better then the old way. Here is my reasoning...
You publish a new quest. And you get you required 5 reviews to get onto the new list. And those 5 reviews are broken down as 3 on one tag and 2 of another. Now the more plays you get the will probably expand to more tags and higher numbers on the tags. Right? Now I have my required 20 plays to get on the daily eligible. Now I have a quest which is tagged with 5 different tags. A player does a search for quests and happens to pick one of the tags that my quest is tagged as.
Now my question/concern is this.
1. How many quests show up on the list that the player searched for? I doubt it will be every quest since there will be, possibly, thousands of quests.
2. Will it be one long list like it was on the New list?
3. How will the search determine what quests are on the list?
4. Will there be an order the the list? (Such as the quests with the most tags first, etc)
The more quests tagged the worse this could get depending on how the list is made. I could easily see this becoming a SSDD thing. The most popular quests on the top of the search list and the one that struggle to get plays not even on the search list.
So given my concerns, how is this system any better than what we had? I guess only time will tell.
Narayan.
We won't really know the answers to these questions until we see all the quests republished and a good amount of quests tagged. I asked about the sort order over on the preview forums and didn't get an answer.
Here is one thing I think people are overlooking - There is an option to search for quests that contain "all" selected tags. So while searching on "contains any of the tags Puzzle, Story, and Challenging" will give a large result set, changing it to "contains all of the tags Puzzle, Story, and Challenging" is going to give a very specific type of quest. And it's in the latter type of search where the power really lies for players to find exactly what they're looking for and authors to gain visibility they didn't have before.
We won't really know the answers to these questions until we see all the quests republished and a good amount of quests tagged. I asked about the sort order over on the preview forums and didn't get an answer.
Here is one thing I think people are overlooking - There is an option to search for quests that contain "all" selected tags. So while searching on "contains any of the tags Puzzle, Story, and Challenging" will give a large result set, changing it to "contains all of the tags Puzzle, Story, and Challenging" is going to give a very specific type of quest. And it's in the latter type of search where the power really lies for players to find exactly what they're looking for and authors to gain visibility they didn't have before.
But since the author cannot tag their quests... How does this gain visibility? In other words if your quests has 2 of the three, it won't be listed. or 3 of the 4. Or whatever...
Or as I see it most quests will have a lot of tags. so you will have to be very specific in your search criteria and will still gets lots of quests. Probably more that the max listed. (once the system is in play for a while)
Narayan
Sweet Water and Light Laughter Till Next We Meet.
Narayan
0
agentjasporMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, SilverstarsPosts: 0Arc User
edited August 2013
Showing up on a tag specific search offers more visibility than only showing up when searching by a) specific author, b) exact short code, or c) broad word based text searches that may match your quest title or something in your description.
Now that I've been staring at the catalog for several hours waiting for my quests to show up, I do have one gripe - Since the featured are the first ones being imported, they're the first ones getting played, and first ones getting tagged. So it's absolutely "the rich get richer" yet again.
Tired of Being a Hero already had been tagged as "Humor" 12 times... Before the vast majority of quests are even available to be played. *sigh*
Showing up on a tag specific search offers more visibility than only showing up when searching by a) specific author, b) exact short code, or c) broad word based text searches that may match your quest title or something in your description.
Now that I've been staring at the catalog for several hours waiting for my quests to show up, I do have one gripe - Since the featured are the first ones being imported, they're the first ones getting played, and first ones getting tagged. So it's absolutely "the rich get richer" yet again.
Tired of Being a Hero already had been tagged as "Humor" 12 times... Before the vast majority of quests are even available to be played. *sigh*
I just did a little playing with this. So you only need 1 to be put on the list for any tag. The tag numbers don't seem to make a difference to the order of show.
Problem - dummy account, tag all!
Just saying, that what it looks like not what it is as it is too early to say.
0
agentjasporMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, SilverstarsPosts: 0Arc User
I just did a little playing with this. So you only need 1 to be put on the list for any tag. The tag numbers don't seem to make a difference to the order of show.
Problem - dummy account, tag all!
Just saying, that what it looks like not what it is as it is too early to say.
True. But again, the educated player can look at the "Details" tab of the resulting quests and see the counts of each tag. The handful of "tag all" type tags should (hopefully) be vastly outnumbered by the more "accurate" tags. Maybe.
I'm still a bit skeptical myself, but hopeful. And I still say it's better than what we had previously. :P
True. But again, the educated player can look at the "Details" tab of the resulting quests and see the counts of each tag. The handful of "tag all" type tags should (hopefully) be vastly outnumbered by the more "accurate" tags. Maybe.
I'm still a bit skeptical myself, but hopeful. And I still say it's better than what we had previously. :P
Can't argue with the last line
Just did some more playing and the include none of these option turns some into negatives. For example I noticed mine had puzzle. There really is no puzzle in the quest. so I set it to include no puzzle quests. Guess what, it was not there.
Once many people have applied tags this function of include none of these tags will not work. Plain as day. You will have no quests.
Except the ones that have no tags so there is a bonus. but still..
Showing up on a tag specific search offers more visibility than only showing up when searching by a) specific author, b) exact short code, or c) broad word based text searches that may match your quest title or something in your description.
Now that I've been staring at the catalog for several hours waiting for my quests to show up, I do have one gripe - Since the featured are the first ones being imported, they're the first ones getting played, and first ones getting tagged. So it's absolutely "the rich get richer" yet again.
Tired of Being a Hero already had been tagged as "Humor" 12 times... Before the vast majority of quests are even available to be played. *sigh*
Yeah, which is why apart from the one 'test' quest I played, I am not playing/tagging anything tonight. I am really disappointed that 'Featured' went up first, though from what someone had already said in another post (perhaps even you?) I gather this is standard.
Perhaps just for once, the newest and least played could have got preferential treatment...maybe next time.
Yeah, which is why apart from the one 'test' quest I played, I am not playing/tagging anything tonight. I am really disappointed that 'Featured' went up first, though from what someone had already said in another post (perhaps even you?) I gather this is standard.
Perhaps just for once, the newest and least played could have got preferential treatment...maybe next time.
I agree 100% with that. I would go far to say that they should have posted newest to oldest. With a small selection of new featured and best.
I just did a little playing with this. So you only need 1 to be put on the list for any tag. The tag numbers don't seem to make a difference to the order of show.
Problem - dummy account, tag all!
Just saying, that what it looks like not what it is as it is too early to say.
To be honest, I would laugh if authors did this as it will only kick them up the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> in the short-run. If players' expectations aren't met then they will down-rate.
However, the featured quests that are up at the moment aren't going to be affected one way or another. They have enough ratings/plays to withstand some lower votes. Plus, tags aren't going to help them much at all; a player using tags to search is going to be looking for something they don't normally get to see, not the red-starred quests they're sick of seeing (no offense to any featured authors meant - I know it isn't your fault).
Ok, so I tried something else. Someone has tagged my quest once for Puzzle.
Which is puzzling because it shouldn't be.
So I type don't include puzzle. Then search my own name. No quest to be seen, because someone found it puzzling.
Now change that to combat heavy or challenging and this doesn't work. Once a quest had 100+ up to 1000s of plays. someone will say it is challenging, even if it is really, really easy.
I would have thought that all tags did was dictate the order of how quests are shown. As an alternative to adjusted rating. It's still 100 times better than it was but that bit is bonkers.
0
saerraelMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited September 2013
Took me a while to find this back, so sorry for any thread necromancy (didn't keep track of how long this has been off the radar/ didn't see another thread on this topic).
I would be game for this, myself, for both of my published quests and the one still being build. Leave me a reply here for your own quest(s), or hit me with a PM.
(Currently working on Early Access 1 & 2, so I need specifics for the moment.)
I've not given up on tagging, but when searching I find the Quick Search field to be adequate (and fun, I have been throwing random words in to see what I get back). Anyway, my point is, carry on tagging in your descriptions and we can find your quests using criteria of your choosing
0
saerraelMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I've not given up on tagging, but when searching I find the Quick Search field to be adequate (and fun, I have been throwing random words in to see what I get back). Anyway, my point is, carry on tagging in your descriptions and we can find your quests using criteria of your choosing
I'm actually searching on no tags for Beta viewing. It's given me a lot of interesting quest (some broken, granted). I may or may not just be miffed that I don't get anything back for the work I have done in the past (and present) for my own quest. *shrugs* I won't lament on thankless work or no, it's the nature of UGC, I'm sure.
Only my Q1 has hashtags. My Q2 is too.. random for 'official' tags.
Comments
You do have it - 'challenging' is the qualifier. Instead of searching for 'easy' you select 'challenging' in the "Include none of these tags" box and voila! you have your 'easy' quests.
Haha now that's a clever idea! I might have to try this
A quote from the post by badbotlimit, which I linked and karitr quoted fully earlier in this thread:
"Here are two things that we struggled with and discussed.
Almost immediately the tags added by users are perceived as "incorrect" by the author
Almost immediately the tags added by the author are perceived as "incorrect" and ignored by the player
The perception in both of these cases is that the system is broken
Having two sources with different investment levels adding qualifiers to the content presents a potential conflict for the user. The user looses confidence in the system when it appears the system is broken."
How so? None of the tags have negative connotations automatically associated with them. If your quest gets tagged with something that's not necessarily appropriate, the worst case scenario is someone saying, "Hey, this quest was tagged as Humor but I didn't think it was funny at all! 1 star!" But on the flip side, more tags mean a wider range of searches that it will show up on, and at least some of those people who play it will not be unreasonable jerks who rate it low because of a tag mismatch. (Of course those will always be out there... We still see people giving one star reviews because they didn't like the end loot!)
And don't forget that we can now see exactly how many people tagged a quest a certain way. Oh, yours came up when I searched Humor? Let me see the breakdown. Hrmmm, only 2 people have selected Humor while 250 have selected Dramatic. Yeah, this probably isn't what I'm looking for.
I'm sorry, but no matter how you spin it, I'm not going to agree that the new tagging system is a bad thing.
The Crystal Relics - NWS-DMXNCNAVJ
Tower District Contest Entry: Undercover Brother - NW-DCD6OI9JE
It should work eventually... But right now, it's going to give you every single quest, since none of them have been tagged as "Challenging" yet. I literally just tried it, and not a single quest comes up as "Challenging" yet.
It's going to take time for the "Include none of these tags" search criteria to work effectively.
The Crystal Relics - NWS-DMXNCNAVJ
Tower District Contest Entry: Undercover Brother - NW-DCD6OI9JE
Yeah it's looking really cool. I think there is only the one quest with tags, which I added lol. But, hey, it's working. Just need more players adding tags. I'm a bit reluctant to tag more at the moment as only the featured UGCs have been published, and they don't need a leg up as it were.
You can still do a quick search too...so as I said before a searching for "Dwarven" will bring up Anton's quest and the Wobbly leg too. More should be added to that list as they get republished. I'm quite optimistic now.
Not really. Already the search is working based off the tags I added to just one quest.
Edit: I didn't use challenging for the quest I tagged, but I asked to exclude the 'story' quest and it was removed from the list, so it's instantaneous.
Right, for "include." But for "exclude" it's going to take time. Because doing an "exclude challenging" is going to give you every single quest right now because zero have been tagged as challenging.
The Crystal Relics - NWS-DMXNCNAVJ
Tower District Contest Entry: Undercover Brother - NW-DCD6OI9JE
Sorry agent, I responded to this in an edit. It's only going to need one tag of 'challenging' to start working; it really is that fast and powerful. No doubt people are busy running the new content, so the Foundry will take a bit of a dip, but once regular dailys start once more, the tags will come thick and fast.
You publish a new quest. And you get you required 5 reviews to get onto the new list. And those 5 reviews are broken down as 3 on one tag and 2 of another. Now the more plays you get the will probably expand to more tags and higher numbers on the tags. Right? Now I have my required 20 plays to get on the daily eligible. Now I have a quest which is tagged with 5 different tags. A player does a search for quests and happens to pick one of the tags that my quest is tagged as.
Now my question/concern is this.
1. How many quests show up on the list that the player searched for? I doubt it will be every quest since there will be, possibly, thousands of quests.
2. Will it be one long list like it was on the New list?
3. How will the search determine what quests are on the list?
4. Will there be an order the the list? (Such as the quests with the most tags first, etc)
The more quests tagged the worse this could get depending on how the list is made. I could easily see this becoming a SSDD thing. The most popular quests on the top of the search list and the one that struggle to get plays not even on the search list.
So given my concerns, how is this system any better than what we had? I guess only time will tell.
Narayan.
Narayan
Right, I understand that the tag is instantly considered in the searches. I'm just saying the "exclude" search criteria isn't going to be incredibly helpful until we get a whole lot of tags out there. You excluded "Story" and it removed the one quest that you tagged as Story (which is great!), but it included every other single quest in the entire world. (Well, those republished to this point anyways.) There are plenty of other quests that have tons of story that haven't been tagged at all yet, let alone as "Story," so those will still show up in the results of your "exclude Story" search. That's all I'm saying.
The Crystal Relics - NWS-DMXNCNAVJ
Tower District Contest Entry: Undercover Brother - NW-DCD6OI9JE
We won't really know the answers to these questions until we see all the quests republished and a good amount of quests tagged. I asked about the sort order over on the preview forums and didn't get an answer.
Here is one thing I think people are overlooking - There is an option to search for quests that contain "all" selected tags. So while searching on "contains any of the tags Puzzle, Story, and Challenging" will give a large result set, changing it to "contains all of the tags Puzzle, Story, and Challenging" is going to give a very specific type of quest. And it's in the latter type of search where the power really lies for players to find exactly what they're looking for and authors to gain visibility they didn't have before.
The Crystal Relics - NWS-DMXNCNAVJ
Tower District Contest Entry: Undercover Brother - NW-DCD6OI9JE
But since the author cannot tag their quests... How does this gain visibility? In other words if your quests has 2 of the three, it won't be listed. or 3 of the 4. Or whatever...
Or as I see it most quests will have a lot of tags. so you will have to be very specific in your search criteria and will still gets lots of quests. Probably more that the max listed. (once the system is in play for a while)
Narayan
Narayan
Now that I've been staring at the catalog for several hours waiting for my quests to show up, I do have one gripe - Since the featured are the first ones being imported, they're the first ones getting played, and first ones getting tagged. So it's absolutely "the rich get richer" yet again.
Tired of Being a Hero already had been tagged as "Humor" 12 times... Before the vast majority of quests are even available to be played. *sigh*
The Crystal Relics - NWS-DMXNCNAVJ
Tower District Contest Entry: Undercover Brother - NW-DCD6OI9JE
I just did a little playing with this. So you only need 1 to be put on the list for any tag. The tag numbers don't seem to make a difference to the order of show.
Problem - dummy account, tag all!
Just saying, that what it looks like not what it is as it is too early to say.
True. But again, the educated player can look at the "Details" tab of the resulting quests and see the counts of each tag. The handful of "tag all" type tags should (hopefully) be vastly outnumbered by the more "accurate" tags. Maybe.
I'm still a bit skeptical myself, but hopeful. And I still say it's better than what we had previously. :P
The Crystal Relics - NWS-DMXNCNAVJ
Tower District Contest Entry: Undercover Brother - NW-DCD6OI9JE
Can't argue with the last line
Just did some more playing and the include none of these option turns some into negatives. For example I noticed mine had puzzle. There really is no puzzle in the quest. so I set it to include no puzzle quests. Guess what, it was not there.
Once many people have applied tags this function of include none of these tags will not work. Plain as day. You will have no quests.
Except the ones that have no tags so there is a bonus. but still..
Yeah, which is why apart from the one 'test' quest I played, I am not playing/tagging anything tonight. I am really disappointed that 'Featured' went up first, though from what someone had already said in another post (perhaps even you?) I gather this is standard.
Perhaps just for once, the newest and least played could have got preferential treatment...maybe next time.
I agree 100% with that. I would go far to say that they should have posted newest to oldest. With a small selection of new featured and best.
To be honest, I would laugh if authors did this as it will only kick them up the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> in the short-run. If players' expectations aren't met then they will down-rate.
However, the featured quests that are up at the moment aren't going to be affected one way or another. They have enough ratings/plays to withstand some lower votes. Plus, tags aren't going to help them much at all; a player using tags to search is going to be looking for something they don't normally get to see, not the red-starred quests they're sick of seeing (no offense to any featured authors meant - I know it isn't your fault).
Which is puzzling because it shouldn't be.
So I type don't include puzzle. Then search my own name. No quest to be seen, because someone found it puzzling.
Now change that to combat heavy or challenging and this doesn't work. Once a quest had 100+ up to 1000s of plays. someone will say it is challenging, even if it is really, really easy.
I would have thought that all tags did was dictate the order of how quests are shown. As an alternative to adjusted rating. It's still 100 times better than it was but that bit is bonkers.
I would be game for this, myself, for both of my published quests and the one still being build. Leave me a reply here for your own quest(s), or hit me with a PM.
(Currently working on Early Access 1 & 2, so I need specifics for the moment.)
[SIGPIC]http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=98570189&dateline=1372572330[/SIGPIC]
NW-DCJV53UTU
[Open for play, link to spotlight thread]
I'm actually searching on no tags for Beta viewing. It's given me a lot of interesting quest (some broken, granted). I may or may not just be miffed that I don't get anything back for the work I have done in the past (and present) for my own quest. *shrugs* I won't lament on thankless work or no, it's the nature of UGC, I'm sure.
Only my Q1 has hashtags. My Q2 is too.. random for 'official' tags.
[SIGPIC]http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=98570189&dateline=1372572330[/SIGPIC]
NW-DCJV53UTU
[Open for play, link to spotlight thread]