Enough is Enough

tarmalen

You continue to modify the game due to PVP whines. STOP.

Unstoppable is too unstoppable in PVP?? So you are nerfing it across the board.

You realize not everyone runs around PVP and not everyone runs Sent spec right?

I have 22k hp in PVE running Instigator build and I rely on unstoppable since it is the cornerstone of our class.
It is also a decent DPS boost that now is taking a hit. Guess some of the developers play TR or CW and started sweating. What is the matter? Hate competition?

You are telling me my survivability is too high...in PVE with 22k hp? I am a MELEE in MELEE range. Give me some **** ranged skills if you don't want me wading into a sea of mobs.

How about you address the useless capstone Instigators have? COMPLETELY useless soloing. It does NOTHING. Read the **** description.

STOP NERFING EVERYTHING DUE TO PVP WHINES!

There...I feel much better.

I can say that I am not leaving nor have intention of leaving...then again you sure know how to push folks away.

How about you ignore the pvp whines for a bit...balance the classes for pve and then modify things to work differently in PVP? Simple enough...other games do it.

Reminder...PVP and PVE are two different animals. You cannot balance for both using the same skill rules. How about some research into games that tried and died? How about 10 minutes of google time to understand that you must separate the two in regards to balance. No...seems like you guys want to learn the hard way.


Just for a recap. I am losing 7% deflection, 60% damage on slam, also losing temp HP and damage resistance from unstoppable not to mention less uptime on unstoppable.

Did I miss anything?

cribstaxxx

Dead on, GWF will not be played in PvE after this patch, there simply won't be room in any group for one. TR will have greater survivability that GWF, that's a bit stupid no?

I don't even understand why people whine about GWF in PvP. If you are 8k GS of course it takes 3 of you to kill the 12k Tank GWF. If you have 12k GS however 2 people can kill a GWF in ~40 seconds, and 3 can kill him extremely fast, especially if one is a GF for prone juggle.

I have learned quite a bit about sent GWF from joining a PvP guild. He does no damage so if you just ignore him, or send one tanky person to the point he's sitting on he becomes worthless. His strength is his ability to tank 3 pugs and contest a point forever, so how do you beat him? don't send 3 people to his point lol. It's so easy to counter if you just play smart, and with good gear he is not hard to take down.

I have 37k HP, 54% deflect with 5 weapon master stacks, 3200 def, and 1250 regen (ticks for 1770 ish) and I am killed easily by 3 guild members, and it takes maybe 30-40 seconds before I have to run away vs 2 with good dps.

Long story short if you have good gear and play smart tank GWF is nothing, how can you expect 2 8k GS toons to beat 1 12k of any class, let alone GWF.

Also Sent GWF in PvP is ONLY viable spec right now IMO. I have tried Sent PvE, Dps Pve, and Dps PvP, and they are all garbage, I am unneeded in any group and dps for pvp you die in a single prone before you even use unstoppable. Just stupid that our only spec is now nerfed to the ground.

digesthisickness

Agreed with most that's been said. Except the part about it being about PvP. The sad truth is that they've never been kind enough to let any of us know why they've hacked at our characters and continue to hack away at them. All we have is conjecture.

Also, sadly, I really doubt they bother to read sections of the forum such as this. I haven't seen a lot of proof of them reading any sections but bug and neverwinterpreview. IF they do, it's rare.

I do agree though with the majority of what's been said.

cribstaxxx

That's true we can't be sure that it's PvP based, but GWF are the most unwanted class in PvE. It would be truly evil to nerf them b/c of PvE lol

daswooly

cribstaxxx wrote: »

That's true we can't be sure that it's PvP based, but GWF are the most unwanted class in PvE. It would be truly evil to nerf them b/c of PvE lol

This is what I'm thinking. When a class performs another classes's job better then we get nerfs. Unstoppable tanking made GF obsolete. Superior control from CW made tanking obsolete. DC's ability to constantly layer mitigation also made tanking obsolete. I'm hoping all these class changes are being made to get rid of some of the power disparity amongst the classes. They seem to want dungeons to be slower, pulls to be smaller, and every class having a role. Guess we'll see.

chipster

daswooly wrote: »

This is what I'm thinking. When a class performs another classes's job better then we get nerfs. Unstoppable tanking made GF obsolete. Superior control from CW made tanking obsolete. DC's ability to constantly layer mitigation also made tanking obsolete. I'm hoping all these class changes are being made to get rid of some of the power disparity amongst the classes. They seem to want dungeons to be slower, pulls to be smaller, and every class having a role. Guess we'll see.

From what i observed, DC tank better than GF/GWF.. if you go the right build.

degraafination

Best GWF Sents on Mindflayer have less than a 9k GS. Why? All blue regen gear + Tenebros. Fought a GWF (Regen Sentinel) and it took 4 of us to take her down. Guess what? I'm a in a PVP guild and it wasn't some pug team.

Sorry Slam is getting nerfed, and I'm sorry that Destroyer and Instigator Specs are losing out too. I really wish only Sents were getting nerfed because they were the only class that was seriously OP.

chipster

degraafination wrote: »

Best GWF Sents on Mindflayer have less than a 9k GS. Why? All blue regen gear + Tenebros. Fought a GWF (Regen Sentinel) and it took 4 of us to take her down. Guess what? I'm a in a PVP guild and it wasn't some pug team.

Sorry Slam is getting nerfed, and I'm sorry that Destroyer and Instigator Specs are losing out too. I really wish only Sents were getting nerfed because they were the only class that was seriously OP.

Sad to hear that you would need 4 players, I would suggest for you to change to another PvP guild. 3 is enough to take out a sent in seconds.. with the right strategy and play.

vrtesseract

they have nerfed every class DPS wise, dps and crits and AP generation.
but they gave slam an interrupt and enemy De-buff this would make them
Stronger in PVP, And possibly more desirable in PVE.

Also they significantly buffed the gwf daily where they spin like a top.
nearly doubled its damage. though this did not make the patch notes.
People who are playing on the test server are noticing a lot of buffs
to powers that were not mentioned in the patch notes.

My thought is this is a general PVE nerf not a PVP nerf at all. due to
people complaining the game is to easy and that they do not like adds.
they may be trying to lesson pve damage so that the gameplay seems
more challenging over all. That would also explain why they are giving
powers some utility benefits to make them MORE powerful in pvp.

My suggestion is wait for the expansion to come out before complaining
about the falling shards of sky. In this particular case it is not PVPs fault.
if this was a PVP nerf we would be seeing more unstoppable and stealth
nerfs.

knightfalz

I'm starting up a GWF when Feywild comes out. Heh, it might be safe territory now after the rounds of nerfing of them. I find the utility change to Slam pretty interesting, but I do enjoy utility abilities more than some do I'm sure.

If GWFs end out too weak, they will get buffed in some way down the line, so I don't think there is as much to worry about as some do.

booyquake

Why were the posts deleted from this thread? At least 4 posts were deleted...

farfig1337

knightfalz wrote: »

I'm starting up a GWF when Feywild comes out. Heh, it might be safe territory now after the rounds of nerfing of them. I find the utility change to Slam pretty interesting, but I do enjoy utility abilities more than some do I'm sure.

If GWFs end out too weak, they will get buffed in some way down the line, so I don't think there is as much to worry about as some do.

GWF have been too weak since open beta, Then they got the unstoppable Temp HP buff and they were still a very undesirable class to have in PvE. But they became tolerated. Now that there Defenses are nerfed again I expect GWF to be the first class dead again all the time in any conflict. And without a TR's damage and utility they will never see the light of day inside a dungeon.

I play alot of T2 pug dungeons and I always grab a 2nd GWF. I see players abandon my groups quite freaquently when they see a Group with two GWFS. Whn I run Dungeons I am always #1 DPS since I out gear the pants on everyone else in my group. The other GWF is always last, next to the DC. I constantly see other TR's and CW's deal nearly twice the damage of other GWFs I bring to T2's. And these guys who have 2k Less GS than me compare to my damage.

Crytpic never listens

knightfalz

farfig1337 wrote: »

GWF have been too weak since open beta, Then they got the unstoppable Temp HP buff and they were still a very undesirable class to have in PvE. But they became tolerated. Now that there Defenses are nerfed again I expect GWF to be the first class dead again all the time in any conflict. And without a TR's damage and utility they will never see the light of day inside a dungeon.

I play alot of T2 pug dungeons and I always grab a 2nd GWF. I see players abandon my groups quite freaquently when they see a Group with two GWFS. Whn I run Dungeons I am always #1 DPS since I out gear the pants on everyone else in my group. The other GWF is always last, next to the DC. I constantly see other TR's and CW's deal nearly twice the damage of other GWFs I bring to T2's. And these guys who have 2k Less GS than me compare to my damage.

Crytpic never listens

I know quite well that GWF are often not favoured in dungeon groups, because of weaknesses perceived or actual, and that the class has a had a fairly rocky road and will likely continue on it for some time.

Fortunately the guild I'm with cares more about the players than the types of characters they play, so I don't have to worry about what the general consensus thinks of GWF, whether accurate or not.

I can afford to make the character and hope for beneficial changes, because whether or not they take place I don't have to worry about struggling to get into random PUGs. I know I will have a place.

tarmalen

knightfalz wrote: »

I know quite well that GWF are often not favoured in dungeon groups, because of weaknesses perceived or actual, and that the class has a had a fairly rocky road and will likely continue on it for some time.

Fortunately the guild I'm with cares more about the players than the types of characters they play, so I don't have to worry about what the general consensus thinks of GWF, whether accurate or not.

I can afford to make the character and hope for beneficial changes, because whether or not they take place I don't have to worry about struggling to get into random PUGs. I know I will have a place.

I too am in a solid guild with great players.

That does not address the fact that the Instigator capstone is useless in a solo setting.
Also does not address the fact that to use unstoppable I need to get hit.
To keep the Instigator capstone active I cannot get hit.

cribstaxxx

degraafination wrote: »

Best GWF Sents on Mindflayer have less than a 9k GS. Why? All blue regen gear + Tenebros. Fought a GWF (Regen Sentinel) and it took 4 of us to take her down. Guess what? I'm a in a PVP guild and it wasn't some pug team.

Sorry Slam is getting nerfed, and I'm sorry that Destroyer and Instigator Specs are losing out too. I really wish only Sents were getting nerfed because they were the only class that was seriously OP.

LOL a terrible pvp guild then... Sent GWF's only OPness comes from Tene's. We trade vitrually all damage for tankiness, that is more than fair. If you can't kill a GWF with 4 players you are just bad, I'm sorry. I too am in a pvp guild, and we do guild vs guild matches all the time. My 37k HP, 54% deflect, 1270 regen (~1800 ticks) 3200+ defense GWF can be killed by 2 if the TR has shocking execution, and easily by 3 especially if they have debuffs.

I also play a CW and can slaughter sent GWF. I use GPF along with enfeeble on tab and feated CoI for a total of 110% defense reduction along with -1350 armor from High Viz, Sent GWF are nothing against a team that knows how to play against them. Yes I dominate pugs, but with virtually no damage they have to have 7 Gtene's to be OP, which is why I hope Tene's get nerfed and not the class.

tarmalen

cribstaxxx wrote: »

LOL a terrible pvp guild then... Sent GWF's only OPness comes from Tene's. We trade vitrually all damage for tankiness, that is more than fair. If you can't kill a GWF with 4 players you are just bad, I'm sorry. I too am in a pvp guild, and we do guild vs guild matches all the time. My 37k HP, 54% deflect, 1270 regen (~1800 ticks) 3200+ defense GWF can be killed by 2 if the TR has shocking execution, and easily by 3 especially if they have debuffs.

I also play a CW and can slaughter sent GWF. I use GPF along with enfeeble on tab and feated CoI for a total of 110% defense reduction along with -1350 armor from High Viz, Sent GWF are nothing against a team that knows how to play against them. Yes I dominate pugs, but with virtually no damage they have to have 7 Gtene's to be OP, which I why I hope Tene's get nerfed and not the class.

So I get to blame you and your OP build used for PVP! Agreed though...Tene's are the reason but GWF is made to suffer.

What is sad...all the nerfs barely scratch you and hit the other two roles fairly hard. Simply amazed.

cribstaxxx

tarmalen wrote: »

So I get to blame you and your OP build used for PVP! Agreed though...Tene's are the reason but GWF is made to suffer.

What is sad...all the nerfs barely scratch you and hit the other two roles fairly hard. Simply amazed.

Yes you may blame me =P but seriously shocking execution ignores all defenses so even at slightly under half a good TR can finish me with SE. A good CW can debuff me to worthless, and GF can keep me prone to stop me from using unstoppable.

Yes vs pugs it's hilarious and I can tank 3-4 uncoordinated players that don't know how to fight a GWF, but in guild matches I just feel useless because I do no damage, and the best tactic is to pretty much ignore me. Also I do NOT have tene's, so it takes me like 2-3 full combo's of flourish/knockdown/restoring to kill a squishy lol, how OP is that?

yeah, I'll lose 12% deflect and some unstoppable HP but I think it will still dominate pugs, especially once I get a thunderhead and a lifedrinker

tarmalen

So now roar is gimped in AP generation?

How about you fix Roar and fix the Unstoppable bug.

Also fix the instigator capstone.

dla06c

vrtesseract wrote: »

Also they significantly buffed the gwf daily where they spin like a top.
nearly doubled its damage. though this did not make the patch notes.
People who are playing on the test server are noticing a lot of buffs
to powers that were not mentioned in the patch notes.

Actually they do talk about this in the forum. The Damage is double, but the time is halved, meaning the daily still does the same damage. But it also means 50% less time for the speed and immunity to immobilization. Which means net that daily was actually nerfed too.

tarmalen

dla06c wrote: »

Actually they do talk about this in the forum. The Damage is double, but the time is halved, meaning the daily still does the same damage. But it also means 50% less time for the speed and immunity to immobilization. Which means net that daily was actually nerfed too.

Well from a DPS perspective it is a boost. More damage in less time=More DPS.

I have yet to test but the only time I would want to use it is when a singularity has everything grouped up.

Then again if it has a 5 target cap I would rather use other skills/dailies to put out better control/DPS.

unksam

The GWF needs unstoppable,without it our skills are useless,our damage(not bad) but before hiting a few we are already dead,I understand the 5 sec restrictions but intrerupting unstoppable,why do u even botter naiming it unstoppable if it can be stopped,really Cryptic,TR and Cw already do tons of damage and stuns,and DC heal like madmans,now u just destroy a class who keeps a balance between classes,in the next patch focuss on the content not nerfing classes who are already nerfed.