If they don't want clerics to heal, they need to tune content better, give Sentinels more help with Threat, and not give clerics two paragon feat trees that are obviously healing-oriented.
At this point a DPS cleric is going to heal nearly as well as full-on healing spec'd cleric. It's nearly like that already, but still...
another /facepalm patch for clerics. Those staying I salute you as you're a better man than I am. Off to play ffxiv till wildstar or EQnext release date .
Remove the stupid healing debuff and this nerf could be warranted. That being said I assume clerics are hurting the bottom line with res scroll sales and they needed to get rid of the competition.
As ridiculous as it sounds, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if that factored into the equation somewhat. This game is F2P afterall.
Wooooow. "Listening to player feedback", lol. while i agree with the TR nerfs, cleric was certainly the most underpowered of the underpowered before this patch, and what do they do? give us a couple nerfs and make some previously not working feats/encounters working? I was so excited for this patch, but no... if they spent anywhere near the time they spend on their mini-transaction bull**** on class balance, that would be something. Seriously can't wait till the next mmo, this one is completely ridiculous.
Hammer of Fate is a facewrecker in PvP(which most games nerfs go out the door becuz PvP). I don't see people QQ'ing that DPS DCs are do way too much damage in Dungeons because of a Daily. However, now we are for sure less threatening in PvP.
Hammer of Fate only wrecks faces in PvP if timed well and activated with a fair bit of luck. I don't hear many people complaining about it since it's so easy to avoid taking all of its damage. Besides, even if the target is forced to eat all 3 waves, there's a fair chance that Soulforged will kick in and save it from the killing blow, anyway :P
This whole thing is just silly. They need to hold off on "fixing" certain unintended mechanics until they can offer some enhanced mechanics to level the playing field.
So I checked the change of SB on Mimic and it is exactly as I feared.
Tested AP gain on 3 dummies for 1 SB:
Now: 19%
Nerfed: 6%
Seriously?! Is there any reasoning behind this, clerics are already the weakest class, trash mobs hit me for more than I hit them and now I cannot even build enough AP for dailies... And clerics pretty much depend on dailies. I would really like to know WHY?
Btw this: "When hitting both enemies and other allies at the same time, the player now gains 25% more Action Points from this power." will not save it because the nerf cut it more than 1/4 even more than 1/2 now when I heal and atk i get half of my AP bar... well goodbye blue sky...
Btw those feywild mobs that suck my almost full AP bar empty are not cool at all :c
These changes are just silly! Solo questing or solo foundries goes already slow and it's boring enough. Getting AP with Sunburst + casting Hammer of Fate is the only way to finish them a bit faster and made them in some way a bit more fun.
We already lack a buch of defense and we also lack some decent CC. The CC we have is only for a very short duration, there is no way to keep all the mobs on distance when trying to kill them, most of the time we just have to tank the mobs. They can't just fix everything with just healing wich is also reduced by 40% on ourselfs. So we lack cc, we lack defense, we lack dps, but hey we got healing right?
Originally clerics should have shields in D&D just like a GF or maybe some kind of holy cleric shield. This is why we lack defense in the first place becus we have an icon and no decent CC.
And about all the nerfs in general, it's better to increase the defence of all classes, put them in spells or feats or rease the armor class, then big nerfs like this aren's needed, just the bugs and over the top spell fixes.
lordtremereMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited August 2013
**and yet on FB we have this response to my post: John OftheFoshayfamily - Devoted Cleric
Chains of Blazing Light: The chain no longer sometimes activates in a much larger area than intended. - Nerf how?
Hammer of Fate: This power dealt far too much damage overall, so it's gained a new feature and had its damage reduced.[ If the power deals a killing blow, the player will now regain 15% of maximum AP (at max rank). However, the power's overall damage has been reduced by 40%.] - So what? if your using these while a cleric your a fail unless your not doing your job even in pvp your suppose to be healing your team battle clerics do not exist yet.
Sun Burst: When hitting both enemies and other allies at the same time, the player now gains 25% more Action Points from this power. [ However, this power no longer incorrectly multiplies the intended Action Point gain per cast by the number of enemy targets affected.] So it's working properly now finally... and they increased the gain of AP by 25% (but I honestly don't notice a difference in how it preforms for AP gain.)
Punishing Light (Divine): The cost to maintain this power has been reduced by 20%. - you call this a nerf?
Soothing Light (Divine): This power now heals for up to 20% more, based on the target's missing health. -Increased heal is a nerf?
Going to have to go with it's just you... or you clearly have not actually read the patch notes. ((actually I did read the notes, but I guess there are other interpretations out there?? we'll see...))
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angelxeyeMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 1
...Why do you hate us so much Cryptic? Honestly is all you want us to do is pve casting circles and sunbursts endlessly? Pvp is where I go to break away from the monotony of being a good little healbot for everybody else. The place I go where I can do some damage to other people, show that clerics are good at something else, feel good knowing that I have the ability to do something other than trail around after people keeping them alive....
Ya, I may go back to my cw- clerics are so underpowered. I really like em- but I am getting whomped - pve is harder already (comparitivley speaking). How about buffing up something else? I notice more and more everyone is getting healer companions b/c clerics are squishy.
I'm cool with everything in the patch except the HoF nerf. I play a level 57 DC mostly solo and in PvE only, and HoF bails me out of bad situations when I need to be able to pick off a single strong enemy out of a mob (e.g. a winterwolf) that's otherwise killing me. I constantly have to buy and spam potions to stay alive because no matter how much defense and power I build, it's not enough. Considering how little damage DCs deal in general compared to other classes, it's not fair to have such a big nerf to our single hard-hitting Daily (which is supposed to hit hard because it's a Daily). I don't have anywhere near as much trouble on my TR and CW as I do with my DC.
Sun Burst: When hitting both enemies and other allies at the same time, the player now gains 25% more Action Points from this power. [ However, this power no longer incorrectly multiplies the intended Action Point gain per cast by the number of enemy targets affected.] So it's working properly now finally... and they increased the gain of AP by 25% (but I honestly don't notice a difference in how it preforms for AP gain.)
Um maybe a simple test - try SB on test server and see for yourself. For me on test server it is 2% AP for one target hit with max of 5 targets that would make 10% per cast + that magnificent 25% (=2.5%) for healing someone which makes awkward... 12.5%?! Now I get 19% for just hitting 3 dummies and like 45% for 5 mobs atk and healing allies (ofc some feats are at work here for ap gain for healing but just the math says it is a very big nerf).
ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited August 2013
A few threads have been merged into one.
However I can't stress how much I, as a cleric, feeling underpowered as it was am with this change. The fact that so players who main other classes saw these changes as said "Seriously? Why?" is a testament in my opinion to how unneeded these changes were...
Unless...of course...we get the buffs to the other powers. The buffs we have been begging for since the initial changes were made. Sure the cleric get by in PvE. In PvP they are a complete joke unless you spec to completely destroy your PvE builds...
Come on Cryptic. I love the game but the clerics needed love, not hate.
You people are funny. It doesn't help that the only stickied thread in this particular part of the forums happens to be related to a phenomenon almost exactly like this one. It's the Astral Shield nerf all over again, which people promptly forgot about 1-2 weeks after Neverwinter originally went live. I see we already have the "I love this class and you're ruining it" posts. Still no "let's organize a major boycott protesting these changes" posts?
For the record, you people got what you wanted all right. You just need to look into the other class threads to find out what they are. That's right. The game and balancing isn't just about your and your class. Shocking, right?
You there. New to the game? Feeling overwhelmed? Maybe you think getting to end-game is impossible for a casual player like yourself, or maybe you just need to be around a community that helps each other stay sane and competitive with the latest news, current trends, random chitchat and most of all LEGIT (that is, we try to keep things fair) gameplay. If you don't mind being around quirky people and the rare occasional drama (one of our prominent TR members is apparently a mafia godfather) join nw_legit_community at http://www.nwlegitcommunity.shivtr.com/forum_threads/2330542.
For the record, you people got what you wanted all right. You just need to look into the other class threads to find out what they are. That's right. The game and balancing isn't just about your and your class. Shocking, right?
I have to disagree with you here. I have all the classes lvl 60 well equipped and read all the patch notes. Frankly TRs nuke is still high even after the nerf, GF is alright so is CW. GWF is even weaker now (in pve) and I am not a fan of the slam nerf either, but this is about DC and even the ability to be an efficient healer in the middle of a swarm of mobs when your AS is on CD what will you do... "hey guys, sorry I do not have AP for HG so just pot even more if you wanna live". And ofc people who do not play DC will blame us for not doing our job.
And as for solo stuff like questing and foundries. It already is hard sometimes with our low dmg and now without SB AP I wont be even able to aoe nuke with flame strike.
You people are funny. It doesn't help that the only stickied thread in this particular part of the forums happens to be related to a phenomenon almost exactly like this one. It's the Astral Shield nerf all over again, which people promptly forgot about 1-2 weeks after Neverwinter originally went live.
Well, no: nobody forgot about it, we just adapted to save HG for AS downtime, building the necessary AP using sunburst.
....which is going to be no longer possible. HENCE THE COMPLAINTS.
They keep taking our toys away because we're (apparently?) not playing the class they way they want us to. The fact that there's no clear direction they seem to be heading in other than "nerfwards" makes it all the worse.
This is utterly ridiculous. It's long become apparent that they are reading the Build posts that people are putting up in these Forums, for the sole purpose of nerfing them, so...
STOP POSTING YOUR BUILDS HERE!!
Seriously?! 95% of my "credited" kills in PvP come from HoF, and it's the one thing guaranteed to keep other players from kill-stealing, and it will be nerfed? Where are you going to find Clerics in GG now?
And nerfing the AP gain from Sunburst?
There are no words for this. But if this goes live I WILL NOT BUY the Feywild Pack.
while I agree with cryptic that SB needed an adjustement regarding the AP gain, the nerf they're planning on doing is seriously overkill. A full AP gauge with just 2 SB casts was too much but going from 2 casts to 5-6 casts is ridiculous. The time needed to fill up your AP just went from 18s to 54s. LOL.
I mean, the healing and damage of SB is somewhat crappy... it is only used to build AP and to (occasionally) knock stuff away, It even was used to proc Linked Spirit. Now it can't be used for neither of those purposes, only to knock stuff back.
A cooldown reduction based on the ammount of targets hit would be nice, up to a 15% reduction (1% per target (2% if they are allies)). How the hell are we supposed to gain AP?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I want this class in NW.
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deberserkerMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 48
edited August 2013
I hate to say it, but I guess I can understand why they nerf Hammer of Fate. The damage is high, but if they are nerfing this they should also nerf other classes opportunity to one shot - especially the TR, instead they are getting buffed as far as I know. Not fair. I can also understand the sun burst nerf as I can keep Divine Armor up at all times in CN as it is, but taking away these two effects from Devoted Cleric's they should definetly add something to the class as well.
And I agree with the poster - that Hammer of Fate was/is one of the few fun things for a DC to do in PvP, especially since the scoreboard still isn't suited for the class. Devoted Clerics definetly needs a buff right now in one way or another.
And yes, these nerfs will affect "support" clerics as well. I don't understand why are you gloating if you play this game, nerfing clerics' abilities is not just bad for them, but for .... .... an ordinary players like you. Shocking, I know.
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deberserkerMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 48
DC is supposed to be a support class, lol... if you want kills, play a rogue?
Did I say it was not supposed to? No. I'm just saying being a support class should affect the final score in a battleground as well. Getting points for healing for example.
As of the Hammer of Fate - of course you can one shot people with it! I'm healing specced and I do one shot people with it in PvP and mobs also? What are you talking about?
Because Hammer comes in three wave over about as many seconds, any or all portions of its damage can be deflected, dodged, blocked, or even avoided by hiding behind the environment. The only class forced to eat it (barring a handy corner) is GWF, which typically has high damage resist and deflect.
The 15% AP regen if you land the killing blow is negligible and hardly incentive to blow 100% of AP to cast.
Sun Burst: When hitting both enemies and other allies at the same time, the player now gains 25% more Action Points from this power. [ However, this power no longer incorrectly multiplies the intended Action Point gain per cast by the number of enemy targets affected.] So it's working properly now finally... and they increased the gain of AP by 25% (but I honestly don't notice a difference in how it preforms for AP gain.)
If you don't notice a difference then you either haven't actually tested it on the preview shard, or you're just lying. The difference is monumental. I don't think it's necessarily a bad change, but the difference is huge, and quite noticeable.
Comments
At this point a DPS cleric is going to heal nearly as well as full-on healing spec'd cleric. It's nearly like that already, but still...
As ridiculous as it sounds, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if that factored into the equation somewhat. This game is F2P afterall.
@Moonchips
Hammer of Fate only wrecks faces in PvP if timed well and activated with a fair bit of luck. I don't hear many people complaining about it since it's so easy to avoid taking all of its damage. Besides, even if the target is forced to eat all 3 waves, there's a fair chance that Soulforged will kick in and save it from the killing blow, anyway :P
This whole thing is just silly. They need to hold off on "fixing" certain unintended mechanics until they can offer some enhanced mechanics to level the playing field.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
One thing I would like to see is the DC aoe powers affect more than 5 targets including sunburst. With the infinite mobs, the repel is fairly useless.
Notes say AP from sunburst is affected; but don't mention DP. Is that right?
Is sunburst DP generation nerf hammered also?
Tested AP gain on 3 dummies for 1 SB:
Now: 19%
Nerfed: 6%
Seriously?! Is there any reasoning behind this, clerics are already the weakest class, trash mobs hit me for more than I hit them and now I cannot even build enough AP for dailies... And clerics pretty much depend on dailies. I would really like to know WHY?
Btw this: "When hitting both enemies and other allies at the same time, the player now gains 25% more Action Points from this power." will not save it because the nerf cut it more than 1/4 even more than 1/2 now when I heal and atk i get half of my AP bar... well goodbye blue sky...
Btw those feywild mobs that suck my almost full AP bar empty are not cool at all :c
foundry Call of the Blood - NW-DTAK6CXZ2
campaign Heart of Nature - NWS-DUKNH9PPZ
We already lack a buch of defense and we also lack some decent CC. The CC we have is only for a very short duration, there is no way to keep all the mobs on distance when trying to kill them, most of the time we just have to tank the mobs. They can't just fix everything with just healing wich is also reduced by 40% on ourselfs. So we lack cc, we lack defense, we lack dps, but hey we got healing right?
Originally clerics should have shields in D&D just like a GF or maybe some kind of holy cleric shield. This is why we lack defense in the first place becus we have an icon and no decent CC.
And about all the nerfs in general, it's better to increase the defence of all classes, put them in spells or feats or rease the armor class, then big nerfs like this aren's needed, just the bugs and over the top spell fixes.
Well, we can guess that it'd be...oh, maybe 7.5%?
Chains of Blazing Light: The chain no longer sometimes activates in a much larger area than intended. - Nerf how?
Hammer of Fate: This power dealt far too much damage overall, so it's gained a new feature and had its damage reduced.[ If the power deals a killing blow, the player will now regain 15% of maximum AP (at max rank). However, the power's overall damage has been reduced by 40%.] - So what? if your using these while a cleric your a fail unless your not doing your job even in pvp your suppose to be healing your team battle clerics do not exist yet.
Sun Burst: When hitting both enemies and other allies at the same time, the player now gains 25% more Action Points from this power. [ However, this power no longer incorrectly multiplies the intended Action Point gain per cast by the number of enemy targets affected.] So it's working properly now finally... and they increased the gain of AP by 25% (but I honestly don't notice a difference in how it preforms for AP gain.)
Punishing Light (Divine): The cost to maintain this power has been reduced by 20%. - you call this a nerf?
Soothing Light (Divine): This power now heals for up to 20% more, based on the target's missing health. -Increased heal is a nerf?
Going to have to go with it's just you... or you clearly have not actually read the patch notes. ((actually I did read the notes, but I guess there are other interpretations out there?? we'll see...))
Ya, I may go back to my cw- clerics are so underpowered. I really like em- but I am getting whomped - pve is harder already (comparitivley speaking). How about buffing up something else? I notice more and more everyone is getting healer companions b/c clerics are squishy.
Kaylee Krankenwagen, level 60 GF | Tavandruil Wayfinder, level 49 GWF | Aldith Langley, level 51 HR
Um maybe a simple test - try SB on test server and see for yourself. For me on test server it is 2% AP for one target hit with max of 5 targets that would make 10% per cast + that magnificent 25% (=2.5%) for healing someone which makes awkward... 12.5%?! Now I get 19% for just hitting 3 dummies and like 45% for 5 mobs atk and healing allies (ofc some feats are at work here for ap gain for healing but just the math says it is a very big nerf).
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?450141-Sun-Burst-nerf
foundry Call of the Blood - NW-DTAK6CXZ2
campaign Heart of Nature - NWS-DUKNH9PPZ
However I can't stress how much I, as a cleric, feeling underpowered as it was am
Unless...of course...we get the buffs to the other powers. The buffs we have been begging for since the initial changes were made. Sure the cleric get by in PvE. In PvP they are a complete joke unless you spec to completely destroy your PvE builds...
Come on Cryptic. I love the game but the clerics needed love, not hate.
For the record, you people got what you wanted all right. You just need to look into the other class threads to find out what they are. That's right. The game and balancing isn't just about your and your class. Shocking, right?
I have to disagree with you here. I have all the classes lvl 60 well equipped and read all the patch notes. Frankly TRs nuke is still high even after the nerf, GF is alright so is CW. GWF is even weaker now (in pve) and I am not a fan of the slam nerf either, but this is about DC and even the ability to be an efficient healer in the middle of a swarm of mobs when your AS is on CD what will you do... "hey guys, sorry I do not have AP for HG so just pot even more if you wanna live". And ofc people who do not play DC will blame us for not doing our job.
And as for solo stuff like questing and foundries. It already is hard sometimes with our low dmg and now without SB AP I wont be even able to aoe nuke with flame strike.
foundry Call of the Blood - NW-DTAK6CXZ2
campaign Heart of Nature - NWS-DUKNH9PPZ
I think HOF has been nerfed since the last couple of patches, first it was the dmg and next how parts of it seems to be dodge-able.
Well, no: nobody forgot about it, we just adapted to save HG for AS downtime, building the necessary AP using sunburst.
....which is going to be no longer possible. HENCE THE COMPLAINTS.
They keep taking our toys away because we're (apparently?) not playing the class they way they want us to. The fact that there's no clear direction they seem to be heading in other than "nerfwards" makes it all the worse.
STOP POSTING YOUR BUILDS HERE!!
Seriously?! 95% of my "credited" kills in PvP come from HoF, and it's the one thing guaranteed to keep other players from kill-stealing, and it will be nerfed? Where are you going to find Clerics in GG now?
And nerfing the AP gain from Sunburst?
There are no words for this. But if this goes live I WILL NOT BUY the Feywild Pack.
:mad:
I mean, the healing and damage of SB is somewhat crappy... it is only used to build AP and to (occasionally) knock stuff away, It even was used to proc Linked Spirit. Now it can't be used for neither of those purposes, only to knock stuff back.
A cooldown reduction based on the ammount of targets hit would be nice, up to a 15% reduction (1% per target (2% if they are allies)). How the hell are we supposed to gain AP?
I want this class in NW.
And I agree with the poster - that Hammer of Fate was/is one of the few fun things for a DC to do in PvP, especially since the scoreboard still isn't suited for the class. Devoted Clerics definetly needs a buff right now in one way or another.
To high for what? We can't oneshot people or mobs with it, how is it too high?
Fat troll detected. http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?399611-GCTRL-s-DPS-Burst-Cleric
And yes, these nerfs will affect "support" clerics as well. I don't understand why are you gloating if you play this game, nerfing clerics' abilities is not just bad for them, but for .... .... an ordinary players like you. Shocking, I know.
Did I say it was not supposed to? No. I'm just saying being a support class should affect the final score in a battleground as well. Getting points for healing for example.
As of the Hammer of Fate - of course you can one shot people with it! I'm healing specced and I do one shot people with it in PvP and mobs also? What are you talking about?
The 15% AP regen if you land the killing blow is negligible and hardly incentive to blow 100% of AP to cast.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
If you don't notice a difference then you either haven't actually tested it on the preview shard, or you're just lying. The difference is monumental. I don't think it's necessarily a bad change, but the difference is huge, and quite noticeable.