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Slam and Sentinel Feats aren't what make the GWF OP.
esteena
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 1
It is the unstoppable. This is the major issue here and it is what give GWF huge survive-ability for the following reasons:
- Ability to regenerate determination at a crazy rate. You can almost spam it ( regardless of the bug).
-The massive damage reduction, 50%? seriously? the GWF already have big defense and deflection so i don't understand why extra 50%?
Really nerfing their slam wont fix anything, in PvP they barely use it anyways. You are only affecting the PvE GWFs and the PvP sentinel ones remain untouched.
Reducing the deflection bonus from bravery and master of arms will barely make a change either, they already got plenty of damage reduction.
It is the Unstoppable folks. I was able to solo every boss while questing from level 1 to level 60 on my GWF. I cleared all zones all by myself (excluding the zone main dungeons like Temple of the spider / karandux etc) just because of my unstoppable.
- Ability to regenerate determination at a crazy rate. You can almost spam it ( regardless of the bug).
-The massive damage reduction, 50%? seriously? the GWF already have big defense and deflection so i don't understand why extra 50%?
Really nerfing their slam wont fix anything, in PvP they barely use it anyways. You are only affecting the PvE GWFs and the PvP sentinel ones remain untouched.
Reducing the deflection bonus from bravery and master of arms will barely make a change either, they already got plenty of damage reduction.
It is the Unstoppable folks. I was able to solo every boss while questing from level 1 to level 60 on my GWF. I cleared all zones all by myself (excluding the zone main dungeons like Temple of the spider / karandux etc) just because of my unstoppable.
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If you take a look at GWF in pvp there not at all OP its 50% Deflection Tene enchants regen/life steal and health stacking that make sent OP nothing else Unstoppable is fine as is.
If The enemy GWF is not sent in any shape form or fashion ther easy as hell to kill even with unstoppable. And beside i don't think its wise for you to nerf the main class mechanic for a **** daily you really want people to hate the class then
- Massive damage reduction.
- Temporary hit points.
- Healing myself while i'm standing like a hulk.
And on top of that, i can just activate unstoppable again and again because i get determination out of thin air... G.Tene only deal 7k damage if i have ~34 k HP.
It is my ridiculous survive-ability i get from unstoppable that make me proc my Tenes more than once.
http://gateway.playneverwinter.com/#char(NerfMe@laudon1)/charactersheet
Look at his defense and deflection. Now tell me Unstoppable is fine.
Every other gwf needs that from unstoppable.
The guy you just pinged to me is obviously sentinel GWF did you even take the time to read my post i think not Unstoppable is fine as is why well lets see for starters if the GWF in question is not sent tree you can burn though the temporary hits points its only last a few seconds you can counter it easy by just not attacking the gwf AND BURST IT DOWN when out of unstoppable any way if its not sentinel GWF i can prone lock it to death on my GF they need to actually be standing up to use unstoppable so stun-locks are very effective against it.And the guy you just pinged me is a Sentinel GWF who the fack uses titan and scrappers and G tene for PvP unless your running that sent build.
My entire post was about GWFs sentinel build. Im calling them to nerf the major problem of making the GWF OP.. which is the huge benefit they get from unstoppable when they use sentinel build.
ONLY?
You should realize that even if Tenebrous is dealing 6k damage, that's still roughly 1/4 the health of CW, TR, and DC. It's basically having the damage of a 4th ability on a 20 second cooldown. That's actually a massive bonus.
A single GF and a TR can kill a GWF with no troubles, once he's out of unstoppable. All the TR needs is for the GWF to be knocked prone, so that he can't retaliate. Halfway decent PVP players know this and employ this often.
Asking for tactics from zerg mentality players is like going into an ice cream shop and asking for pudding.
LoL Unstoppable is not even the problem with the sent build its only a added bonus and most likly they will only pop it to run from you if you mange to get them down far enough to the point ther life steal and regen will not save them.
The problem in my Eyes is Gtene enchants But hell even if they dont got em they can still stall a point against a whole team why There deflection is the main problem in my eyes having a 50% chance to deflect all incoming attack/spells if it was not for there high deflection chance i culd probably burn though there HP on my CW with HV and Greater P Fire enchantment ther defense and dmg resistance dosent matter as i can put it in the negatives. Its that deflection chance that keeps them alive and the regen/life steal. With proper CC teleporting and waiting out unstoppable it shuld only take 2 = geared people one a CW and the other perhaps a GF/TR to kill a sent GWF or at least drive it away from a point
Yeah but the only difference here is every single class can use them.The reason why sentinel GWF benefit the most from them is because he can actually survive way longer compared to other classes to proc the tene more often.
Please tell me you are joking. Most likely use it to run? Unstoppable is the main reason they are a pain in the *** to kill. Because everytime they activate it they heal themselves while making the incoming damage laughable.
You are correct about one thing though, like i said, it is the bonuses they get with unstoppable that makes them immortals. But nerfing these bonuses wont make any significant change. That's why nerfing the major problem causer would in return impact the bonuses and impact the whole build eventually .
Lol so you are admitting that it needs minimum 3 people to get them down because of their " deflection" chance...while you ignore the huge damage resistance they get from unstoppable. Nerfing their deflection chance will only make them slightly less tanky.
And you are right, stacking plague fire would eventually get them down but by the time you do that the GWFs team would probably have captured the rest of the nodes while you are desperately timing your teleports and CC to get him down.
I play three classes in this game CW GF and GWF i will have a way easier time dealing with a sent GWF on My CW why cuss it dose not matter how much dmg resistance they have i can get it down to about 15% while ther in unstoppable and in the negative value range when there not in unstoppable its not ther dmg resistance that makes them hard to kill its there deflection there passive Regen& Life steal that make them hard to deal with.
AS it stand my CW is built to tackle Sent GWF but i need my teams GF or TR to help why cause when there down far enough they will pop Unstoppable then run to pot up having a extra hand in prone-locking them so i can finish them with ice knife is a big help. But then ther are other variable to have to consider like soulforge ect ect... But then again that's what TR is for Shocking will go right though SF enchantment. The + to be a = sign and was meant to replace the word equally any way It only should take 2 competent people to deal with a GWF one has to be a CW in my honest opinion Other then that if the enemy team only has 1 GWF then you can just send some one to dance with it on the point while your team grab the other teams base and hold it and mid for a win.
The fact that you need 3 people to manage to get him down is what makes them OP.It is entirely their unstoppable and its bonuses that makes YOU need your team help's to get him down.
So let get back to the origin of the problem, you are saying it is deflect while i say it is damage resist. Please understand that deflection CHANCE has a CHANCE to reduce a chunk of the incoming damage while the damage resistance ALWAYS reduce the incoming damage with guaranteed 100% chance.
Even with your plague fire stacks, it doesn't stay forever and only remain for few seconds. He would just keep on hulking and probably kill one or two in the process. Also don't ignore the fact that the GWF doesn't play alone and you are talking about a 3~4 vs 1 scenario here which rarely happens.
Sending 2 people for 1 person is where you lose advantage, since you will always be 2 people short while the enemy is just 1 person short so they will outnumber you by 1 person all the time.
I have a sentinel tene GWF, today i was vs a CW and GWF . it took them around 1.5 minutes to kill me and the other GWF i was facing barely survived eventhough i don't have any armor nor weapon enchantments while the CW and the GWF were stacking plague fire on me. I just kept hulking and regenerating through my unstoppable recovery the whole time.
While it's true their survivability is high, that's not the only facet of this. Every class can use them to a lesser extent, but not every player can use them.
They're really expensive to buy and make, meaning not everyone has access to them. Those people who have that kind of money aren't going to waste tenebrous on a class where it's inferior to using it on another class.
Let me make this easy it only take's 2 people on my team to deal with a GWF This is not the same for every one especially pugs any way My CW in HV with G Pfire enchant and RoE Tab slotted can reduce a GWF dmg resistance to just 15% while he is enraged and in the negative while he is not raged. Unstoppable is not the problem The problem like i told you time and again Is there High REGEN AND Deflect yes deflect is a chance but when you have a 50% Chance to do it and when you deflect witch seems like ther constantly deflecting your dmg it cuts it by 50% thats better then dmg resistance right ther and your also regening your HP at about 1k or more a tick that alone is more annoying then them having high dmg resistance.
For me and my team a 2 man strike consisting of a CW and A TR or GF can deal with a GWF at a point. Is it ther dmg resistance bonus from unstoppable thats the problem No it is not its the ****ing regen and ther Deflection chances that make dealing with it a pain in the *** and again there probably adding to it with potions AKA rejuvenation/PvP Pots
PS I can keep Plague fire stacks up permanently with just CoI and magic missile
I honestly don't think ANY nerfs made to this game were meant to affect pvp.
except as a side effect of the powers nerfed being universally loved.
if you really look at what has been nerfed for clerics rogues and GWF is is rarely
what is complained about as overpowered.
I think they are trying to nerf PVE because people are complaining pve is to easy.
but slowing down experience gain or buffing up bosses in ways other than "more adds"
would require them to code up a lot more content.
so by nerfing things "for pvp" they can kill 2 birds with one stone.
PVE is more challenging, and pvpers get to do what they love most
outside of the game itself.
talk for hours about what the newest Unbeatable builds are and
make suggestions about what class needs to be nerfed next
Also bargaining never really seems to help in this situation they
are probably using data-mining to determine what skills are most
used by both pvpers and Pvers. Im sure down the line unstoppable
Will be nerfed but that is only cause its so well liked.
Try to add something productive to discussions like this, what weak powers
do you think might benefit from a buff for example. the gwf 2nd at will
for example takes so long to charge up you loose momentum and rhythm
and just stand there vulnerable while you charge it. it would be nice if the
charge up was shorter.
Unstoppable is not the issue.
People trying to facetank a giant red berserker swinging a 10 foot sword is the issue.
As tank build I will be able to unstoppable 3-4+ times before I die, and while this does prolong my life quite a bit, if I can survive that long what is my damage output? I do about half the damage and even less burst, than GF/TR/CW, probably even less than half if I"m super tanky.
Just because a class can take more hits than any other class doesn't make them OP, what would make them OP is if they could ALSO do as much burst as every other class. Which means that Tenes are the root problem here not the class. Please stop nerfing classes so you can keep this enchant.
Edit: @ vrtesseract - How can you argue that GWF is overpowered in PvE? They are the most widely turned down class for any dungeon run, and are never actively looked for for anything. If this was based solely on PvE then they would need to buff them not nerf them. They would need added threat generation and at the very least the same survivability if not more. Also the DR on slam is worthless as it hits only 5 mobs and is nothing compared to the add control/mitigation that constant CW cc can provide.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
Deflection can be stacked by any class so I don't really see the point here. I've met some rogues stacking max deflection + impossible to catch and they can be just as much of a pain in the ***. Depending on who they're fighting, even more so, because they typically have more damage then a sent GWF.
Right now I'm working on a con/regen cleric and with appropriate gear + feats I'll be pretty tanky as well.
The main thing is that tank builds typically have terrible dps and when they don't it's because of broken Tene enchants. So...nerf it!
Only GWF can hit 50% + Deflection as far as i can tell i have 2k deflection on my GF and maxed out dex and that only has me at about 20% AND with scale agility maxed my max deflection is 25% if i were half-ling i could push it to maby 28-30% that's with defensive slot rings. On my GWF My Half-Orc Has about 55% Deflection Rating During combat That's with 22 dex he has 2k deflection thats about a 26% rateing Just from armor and weapons alone 3k defense and about 4k power in PvP.
Bravery Gives 15% deflection and weapon master Gives 9% more scale agility's gives 5%. And if you half-ling i think that's another 4-5% letting them hit the neer 60% mark. So yes other classes can stack it its bad to do so on CW I can get away with it on GF Dno about cleric i think dmg resistance is better for them and TR probly why you see so many half-ling TR they can hit 30% max at 2k deflection ther still easy to kill with just a single person
If GF can hit 50% deflect... that is a wholly prolly insane god mode~ GF can block.. can GWF block?
The only Significant buff the GWF got was the temp HP from unstoppable it propped up a Dead GWF class on crutches and pushed them hobbling back into the game in PVE. GWF where so easy to kill before that. they would lose half there HP or more before they could go unstoppable and then even with the damage reduction there where easy kills because they did not have enough HP left to survive further attacks.
Any nerf to the GWF could utterly destroy the GWF in PVE. Going back to what we were before, Would be a massive wipe server quit on all GWF players. Or the very least everyone deleting there GWFs.
The proposed Slam nerf will kick the GWF down... They might not be able to rise after that. But some GWF will still try.
Crytpic never listens at all to these forums they make changes that none of the players want or ask for.
Before the Unstoppable Buff most players wanted the GWF damage to be increased they wanted it to be a striker. Since it was squishy like the rogue. Or players wanted the GWF to have alot more threat and utility powers to be a viable member of the party. Instead they jsut made the GWF really hard to kill without the treat to be a useful tank for the group. So PvP facerolls began.
The devs cannot nerf the GWF without first buffing it again. They really need to overbuff the GWF to save the class in PVE. Once one more class is added to the Game with the GWF in its current sate it will be a dead class. Easily replaced by the next damage dealing class that comes along.
Huh? They are not touching unstoppable other than changing the tooltip about healing.
For a full tank GWF that would slow him down some, but for a non super tank one you can already easily burst him to half or less before he pops unstoppable, if you nerf determination too much in PvP it will never be usable
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
50% GWF delfect chance = 25% TR deflect chance.
Simply because GWF deflected hit deals 50% while deflected TR hit deals half that amount - 25%.
And it is not hard to reach 25% with all that DEX they stack.
A GWF WITH 50% deflection will mostly deflect every encounter/Daily a TR would unleash on him Reduced the deflected dmg By 50% or more and heal himself Thanks to passive Regen As it stand GWF are the only class that can optimize on dmg resistance and Deflection on extreme measures.
It would only hurt the PvE specs IMO, since they deal with massive amount of targets so deflect can be very viable there.
But in PvP you deal with 5 targets maximum so you mainly depend on damage resistance than deflect. However, nerfing the amount of damage resist you get from unstoppable would be better than nerfing HUGE chunk of deflect chance, since the sentinel GWF has alot of deflect already from the titan so that deflection nerf is making them slightly less tanky that's all.
DMG Resistance dosent matter fool Plague fire and armor penetration eat right though it. I see you just dont get it why is deflection so good i will tell you again when you deflect it reduces the incoming dmg by half so being able to deflect 50% or more of all incoming attacks is omg <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> did i mention dmg resistance is then factored into the dmg that you will take after the deflect and be reduced even more. But Armor pen is factored in before all this so if you getting hit by some one with 24% armor pen that's 24% of your dmg resistance gone right there Plauge fire will then eat there remainder of it putting it in the neg if you have a CW putting RoE on you and HV stacks on you your dmg resistance is a null-factor and working aginst you at this point if your lucky you mite have 10% dmg resistance if you use Unstoppable but you will probably be using to to run to a pot by then.
Deflection is dmg resistance Nothing can touch not P fire RoE Or HV stacks or Armor Pen taking a big chunk from it will put a fat dent in sentinel builds cuss after 1.5k deflection it suffers from horrible DR. you cant hit 20% deflect with just 2k worth of it you need max dex also.