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PVP leavers - developers sleeping?
daghene
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 28 Arc User
I'll keep it short: as a programmer myself i can't get how developers can think so much good solutions to computer problems yet be so stupid.
I queued for SIX pvp games today and each one had AT LEAST one leaver, both insta-leavers and idiots leaving after the enemies capped two points and we got one(which can happen but doesn't set the game).
Is it so hard to introduce a report/ban system? Not an insta-ban because if you drop your internet once you're screwed, i mean something more like if you leave 3 pvp games in 24 hours you get a 24 hour ban(just an idea).
I would also like to note that this isn't the first time that happens to me, it happens quite often both in my or their team.
Fact is i need 6k Glory to get the last two pieces of my gear and i keep gettin less than 200 glory per game due to this.
I queued for SIX pvp games today and each one had AT LEAST one leaver, both insta-leavers and idiots leaving after the enemies capped two points and we got one(which can happen but doesn't set the game).
Is it so hard to introduce a report/ban system? Not an insta-ban because if you drop your internet once you're screwed, i mean something more like if you leave 3 pvp games in 24 hours you get a 24 hour ban(just an idea).
I would also like to note that this isn't the first time that happens to me, it happens quite often both in my or their team.
Fact is i need 6k Glory to get the last two pieces of my gear and i keep gettin less than 200 glory per game due to this.
Post edited by daghene on
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If Cryptic did implement your way of dealing with leavers, no one would leave the party. They would just AFK, and go watch TV or something. If AFKing is also banable, people would just do stupid things and waste time just to look like they're active. How rare is it that someone in your team leaves your party when you're winning? No one leaves a winning team.
Reason why people leave is because the match ended the moment the opposing team double capped at the start. The PVP is so one sided, you can tell who's going to win in the first 30 seconds. Of course this does not apply to competitive prebuild teams, but for PuGs which is like 95% of the queues it's clear who's going to win.
Solution is to have a more a more balanced PVP which is not one sided. This is really hard to on Cryptic's part because they cater the game to play 2 win people. So simple solutions like armour/enchant scaling that makes everyone have the same armour sets and heavily nerfed enchants will never happen. Cryptic needs that p2w money, after all they're the ones that fund our game we play.
Players need a reason to stick around in a match, there is no point sticking around 10 mins for a 50-1000 score.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v= http://www.youtube.com/user/moegoodtime
No point in toughing it out when i can just leave and re-queue myself.
Not the way i would prefer to do things, honestly, but best way to use the current system.
With the nerf to glory for the losing team there is no point in staying in a match you are for sure going to lose.
Wrong. Not everyone can or just likes to play with a guild/friends, the system should work for solo players too. I'm in a friendly guild with my brother and real life mates and not always everyone's online or wants to pvp.
According to your statement i don't have the right to enjoy pvp because i'm not with a group.
This is the most wrong attitude ever. It's like saying "i used to be pissed by serial killers, then i became one too!". You have to fix the problem, not join its ranks.
I agree, still, to the fact that it's just a waste of time and i didn't know they nerfed glory for the loosing team(which is dumb, i got some great battles where you had to fight until the very last second to win so why not rewarding the loosing team too?).
I noticed i get less than 200 glory now when i loose but thought it was because with a leaver and two afkers i had to sit in base and couldnt kill, cap points and stuff hence be rewarded according to my performance.
Until they put a report or ban system i'll be forced to leave like you do, but if we all do like this there'll be leavers in every single game just because they think it's going bad for a second and leaves.
However, with the way things are in game now its the best solution.
I am not going to bust my *** trying to cap points while my team had one leaver, a bot/afker, and two players that just mindlessly charge mid b/c they think pvp is a deathmatch.
In That example (which happens a lot to me) there is no way to win, period. When faced with loss, in which i will get basically no reward, its faster, easier, and much less stressful to just leave and find a new match.
Sadly, for me, its a "cant beat'em? Join'em" situation. I am not going to fall on my sword for basically principal in a video game.
The solution is simply a 30min ban on joining pvp queues, imo. That will stop leavers and, hopefully, make botting not really worth the effort.
You have to accept that this game is not viable playing solo with PuGs. I'm just helping you eliminate all the problems you had in your opening post and the only solution is to play with a pre made group. If you don't have the time to form a party, don't expect to win any time soon. Get use to "I queued for SIX pvp games today and each one had AT LEAST one leaver". It's really simple to make a pre-made group, you don't even need to have friends or guild. You just need to know players that won't leave on you.
How about next time you win/loose a match, ask everyone that stayed to the very of the match if they want to still stick together as a party. While you're at it add them to your friends list, you don't even need to be friends with them. They're just there if you need them. Heck they might even message you back sometime down the line if you're up for a party.
This does not only apply to PVP, it's even worse for PVE players that can't complete dungeons since a member left. Imagine wasting 1 hour and not being strong enough to clear the boss for the loots.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v= http://www.youtube.com/user/moegoodtime
I actually will leave a winning team. I have my own rules. A if a perma stealth is on other team I hard counter them by leaving. B. - If there is a perma stealth on my team we are winning I leave cause I don't like it. C. If I am getting nubbed 3v1 and I need to refill my cup of coffee I leave. Leaving bg's is part of PvP get over it I guess. It's just that its 5v5 makes it hard. Should be 10v10 in all deathmatches
I feel Neverwinter really *needs* to find a solution to this, because it makes the PvP experience dull; having maybe 1 good match in 10.
For my 2 cents: the system used by WoW was quite effective to combat ragequitting: AFKing / leaving a match results in a 15 minute debuff which prevent's you from joining further games. (as players dont weem to get added after about the first 20 seconds this might need to be amended to the first player to leave a match gets the mini-ban, after which it is safe to leave (a system DOTA2 operates successfully)
However you do it, please please address this Cryptic, the rare good matches I do get are always a great experience!
Join Essence of Aggression: PVP-ing Hard Since Beta!
I rather take the one hit kills versus the 20 min long 3v3 arena battles I had on WoW. If you lost a match at 2200+ ranking, good luck grinding your way to gladiator status with those long matches.
What's the point in saying "you can creat a premade without a guild/group" ? The K button is there for that reason. If someone queues it's just like asking in /zone if someone wants to queue, it's one of the dumbest thing ever.
How can i be sure none of the people i queue with is the classic idiot leaving or raging?
That's your solution? It's basically like using K botton also wasting the time to type and search people.
Quest ID: NW-DPCZNUVQ7
You're still in denial, just accept it already. There is no reason for anyone to explain it to you again, you just don't seem to understand.
You either form a team or deal with all the AFKers, Bots and Leavers. It's the only way to solve your problem at the current state of this game. Go read that bold text again and deal with it, there's no need for anyone to tell you that again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v= http://www.youtube.com/user/moegoodtime
Played my first level 60 PvP match today. My entire team quit, I was the only one to stick around... and I know exactly why.
First, two of our team were insta-killed, full to 0. Then they were spawn camped. And When I said 'GG' and sat to wait it out, they found a way to get up into our spawn and instakill me over and over.
This is why people not only quit matches. Its why they quit PvP, period.
How the hell did PvP get into this state? I used to have a lot of fun in PvP, all the way up to level 50. I paused to go and level to 60, get my purples, etc. Came back and... this.
I don't blame people for leaving a game when they're just going to respawn and instantly die for the next 5 minutes.
The OP is completely correct that the leaver situation is out of hand in NW, a situation due entirely to the fact that it is totally fine to quit and rejoin. The mechanic in place is terrible and really hampers the game. Every mmo or dota I have played implements a penalty for leaving (except for GW2 hotjoin which has a completely set up), and those penalties work to reduce the incidence of leavers.
There are several problems with the structural side of pvp, the main ones being afkers, botting, and leavers. It would be very easy to take out one third of these problems (leavers) just by introducing a leaving penalty. The devs should of course keep trying to address the other 2 issues, but it is just crazy to let one easily solved issue go unchecked like this.
Something as brainless as vote kick and mid game joins would somewhat solve this issue and a penalty would be acceptable.
(the vote would have to have a random side of accept and cancel)
An even better solution would be to actively BAN these bots, currently I've seen the same bots for the past 2 weeks over and over, the devs obviously aren't interested in actively Banning them and looking for a cheap work around that doesn't involve them putting your money back into the game.
Also as above poster said there is such a huge gear gap in this game that you can very easily tell which side is going to win a match 30seconds in. It's a complete waste of time being subjected to those games.
I used to premade but my entire guild has left this game. I shouldn't be forced to read some new guy rage that he gets 1 shot seeing that hes wearing all greens while I do my best at dying in a 1v4.
In short it's the Dev's fault and player do what they must.
The only painful part is pre-20 since you don't have a mount. It takes forever to get to the far node! People not having a basic understanding of the domination mode is also an issue but that happens even at 60.
Quest ID: NW-DPCZNUVQ7
I agree that pvp at 60 is pretty silly (and is actually really good pre-level cap if you can get two full teams), but note that people often leave the game in pvp before level 60 as well, and often for petty reasons like they disagree that "perma-stealth" should be in the game, or they got killed quickly when they ran to a point by themselves and 2vs1ed, etc.
One thing I dislike about the dev communication in this game is that they don't give a reason for the decisions they make. They don't give a vision of what they expect the pvp game to be. Take this leaver issue: Do the devs see this as the answer to bots/afkers? Is it just an oversight? We have no idea what they are thinking, which makes such issues even more frustrating.
It was like the afk multibox bot team issue: for a while I thought maybe the devs approved of this-and of afking in general since it was so rampant and there were no tools to try and stop it. It wasn't until I reported a afk-multiboxer and posted about it on the forums with screenshots that I could confirm that afk-multiboxing was not allowed in NW.
There aren't that many moving parts really: afkers, bots, and leavers are the three structural problems in pvp. It would be great if the devs could say something about each one in a "state of the game" type blog. Even if its just "we know about the issue and are looking at a few alternatives".
Below level-60 the pvp is quite smooth and very enjoyable (apart from the afkers/bots/leavers) so I know NW has a good thing going for it. Take out leavers and the devs only have to work on two structural problems, and the balance at level cap.
I have left quite a few games and I am glad I can without repercussions. Main reasons I dont want to waste 10-20 minutes with potential 0 glory game because I was thrown into a group with one or more bots or against an enemy team which outgears my team by a factor of 2 times the GS and just getting stomped from the start. As long as this <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> 0 glory gain for a terrible loss exists I will continue to do so because my time is limited and I want to enjoy the game not getting stomped with absolutley no compensation for my time to even try to put up a fight. Why should I waste my time for that? Even in WoW you get minor gains in BGs for bad losses and you can avoid GT camping by staying a ghost and running away from the GY not so here.
You want me to stay? Maybe Mythic should start to make seperate Queues for premades and randoms and furthermore try to at least halfway balance it with GS. Then we can talk about penalties for leavers until then you can kindly shut up.
You are a programmer yet this is the idea you come up with and can't see a problem with it? An obvious problem?
Okay so it seems you want to assume that if they were to put in something like this, that people would just stay in the match to avoid the ban right? Wrong. You will get players who leave. So what about those who get stuck in a 4v5 match? They get punished as well because they will never be strong enough unless they are fighting all fresh 60s. So one player leaves and the rest have to suffer the loss of a member. So whats the solution to that? Force another player waiting for a pvp que into a failing match to balance the team? 5v5? No.
Your idea is horrible.
No. Imagine this. None of your guidies wanna form a premade, or maybe you just want to run solo, this part isn't important but let's say you solo que. You port in to find you are in the middle of a match, the enemy has half a bar of red and your team barely has anything. You are going to stay in the match because you don't want to face a "leave penalty"? (the one suggested by the OP)
You might go out and get your 500 points for the minimum score for a little bit of glory! yay! fun.
This worked well in GW2 hotjoin, but in that game there was no real need to afk or bot and the game was "perpetual" in that you were automatically put into a new game with the same group of players (sides were shuffled). It worked well in that there were always full teams and it was unlikely that you would get dominated or dominate every match, but this game has such a different set up and since the rewards have an actual impact on the game I don't see how it would work.
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