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Level 60 players need to deal 25% more dmg to pve.
ennea
Member Posts: 41
As it stands right now, boss mechanics are build in a way that does not seem plausible for the strategy it advocates.
Take for example karrundax. When the dragon pops, you get 4 orcs, 2 archers, 2 wyrmpriest . Now if adds were designed to be spawned continuously , the strategy dictated should be to kill the adds, and back onto the boss. However, 100% of fully geared t1 players , if strategized to just kill adds the go back on boss, will be unable to do so. This is not anecdotal but fact. Simply due to the design of which where the adds spwn, inclusive of the time it takes to herd them.
A Higher tier dungeon, should only require players who have gear just 1 tier below it. In this case a tier 2 minimum requirement , is tier 1 gear. Again this can be seen for almost all mini bosses and end game bosses. Almost every boss fight has adds >> thats ok . But if the game designers strategy was for a team to allocate members, to down the adds then back to boss; then unfortunately your game design is inherently flawed as it is impossible , to do so.
Now what is POSSIBLE, is to cc and use trick mechanics to counteract these bosses. However lets look at it strictly as what was designed , and what has to be done. If trick mechanics like pushing / kiting is needed to deal with said bosses, specific class make ups will then be needed over a random 5 class make up. This spills to a problem with your queue system. Because your game designer made adds to be dealt with in your fights, but cannot be dealt with in the said gear level requirement, players are forced to bring say 2 cw's , or 2 DC's , or no gwf , or 2 tr's to burst etc.
Designs that are unable to be fulfilled , spills into every aspect of the game. Say kiting is needed for spellplague because the 2nd boss and final boss are unable to be done without some form of kiting, the GWF class thus is less favored for either more cc ,(2 CW), or more survivability ( 2 DC's) . But if dmg was increased for all classes across the board by 25 %, suddenly groups can now tactically finish the fight as it was designed. It would thus be designed, adds > down adds > then focus boss > rinse repeat. (dont blame me for crappy boss design mechanic, this is the way you made your boss fights, cryptic studios) .
TLDR: Cryptic designed boss fights to have adds interfered and dealt with. Players with the required gear score, are UNABLE to actually advocate their boss fight design (kill adds > focus boss rinse repeat). FORCED Trick/Kite/Push strategies are used; side effects= classes left out, price inflation on armor for certain classes, bad lfg system due to inability to do bosses without certain classes. Give all players 25 % more dmg, and suddenly your gear score requirement makes sense.
P.S. if the dungeons becomes too easy then it is not the players fault but the game creators fault for making such a brainless strategy and advocating a strategy that is impossible to be fulfilled without tricks.
A game is only a game if it has rules. Once you break the rules you create your own game. If scissors paper stone is played but scissors cant cut paper , and to counter paper you choose lazer beam. Then the game is inherently flawed. Players are now creating their own game. Think about it Cryptic Studios.
Take for example karrundax. When the dragon pops, you get 4 orcs, 2 archers, 2 wyrmpriest . Now if adds were designed to be spawned continuously , the strategy dictated should be to kill the adds, and back onto the boss. However, 100% of fully geared t1 players , if strategized to just kill adds the go back on boss, will be unable to do so. This is not anecdotal but fact. Simply due to the design of which where the adds spwn, inclusive of the time it takes to herd them.
A Higher tier dungeon, should only require players who have gear just 1 tier below it. In this case a tier 2 minimum requirement , is tier 1 gear. Again this can be seen for almost all mini bosses and end game bosses. Almost every boss fight has adds >> thats ok . But if the game designers strategy was for a team to allocate members, to down the adds then back to boss; then unfortunately your game design is inherently flawed as it is impossible , to do so.
Now what is POSSIBLE, is to cc and use trick mechanics to counteract these bosses. However lets look at it strictly as what was designed , and what has to be done. If trick mechanics like pushing / kiting is needed to deal with said bosses, specific class make ups will then be needed over a random 5 class make up. This spills to a problem with your queue system. Because your game designer made adds to be dealt with in your fights, but cannot be dealt with in the said gear level requirement, players are forced to bring say 2 cw's , or 2 DC's , or no gwf , or 2 tr's to burst etc.
Designs that are unable to be fulfilled , spills into every aspect of the game. Say kiting is needed for spellplague because the 2nd boss and final boss are unable to be done without some form of kiting, the GWF class thus is less favored for either more cc ,(2 CW), or more survivability ( 2 DC's) . But if dmg was increased for all classes across the board by 25 %, suddenly groups can now tactically finish the fight as it was designed. It would thus be designed, adds > down adds > then focus boss > rinse repeat. (dont blame me for crappy boss design mechanic, this is the way you made your boss fights, cryptic studios) .
TLDR: Cryptic designed boss fights to have adds interfered and dealt with. Players with the required gear score, are UNABLE to actually advocate their boss fight design (kill adds > focus boss rinse repeat). FORCED Trick/Kite/Push strategies are used; side effects= classes left out, price inflation on armor for certain classes, bad lfg system due to inability to do bosses without certain classes. Give all players 25 % more dmg, and suddenly your gear score requirement makes sense.
P.S. if the dungeons becomes too easy then it is not the players fault but the game creators fault for making such a brainless strategy and advocating a strategy that is impossible to be fulfilled without tricks.
A game is only a game if it has rules. Once you break the rules you create your own game. If scissors paper stone is played but scissors cant cut paper , and to counter paper you choose lazer beam. Then the game is inherently flawed. Players are now creating their own game. Think about it Cryptic Studios.
Post edited by ennea on
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Comments
As it is certain bosses can be kited and avoid all adds whatsoever. A boss that was near undefeatable with 75 adds in the way, just because absolutely trivial with no one in the party dropping below 90% health because you got the boss without the adds. Same thing when you can throw the adds off the ledge... Has anyone completed first boss in frozen heart without throwing the adds off the cliff? Even if you did it would take twice as long and you have to beat him 3 times so you'd spend like 45 minutes on the first boss alone, thats stupid.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
I am sure lots of people have - I did as a DC in a PUG. No fun but still doable since its not THAT hard just long-winded...
Same, first time I did FH I was in a pug without a CW.
But that aside how many groups that know how to do that are going to choose the 45-minute boss kill over the 15-minute one?
I just think they should force you to kill the adds (or kite them in some cases) but not make 75 of them spawn for every single boss fight. I'm a big fan of the combat, I like the game a lot, but it seems my entire role every dungeon is singulary them all together, repel them off the cliff, pop shield if repel didn't get them all. Then for every boss fight I have to switch all my skills out (unless its a boss I can toss adds off ledge lol) and then switch them back after.
If they made this change it wouldn't make CW's less desirable b/c we can still do a lot of AOE damage, but it would put GWF's at a more equal position since they can't toss enemies. Also I would actually get to use those other abilities that I haven't barely touched since running T2's heh.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
Ex: Karru now correctly turns and now has an AOE tail swipe that knocks back and has a low casting animation. She also regains her old health. In exchange adds only spawn once at the start of the fight, once when Karru first lands, once when Karru takes flight, and once when Karru lands the second time. The first wave would start out light(2 baby dragons, 4 shields, 2 wyrmpriests) while the last wave would be a about double that. They would only spawn once, though.
The idea being that adds need to be taken out before you can comfortably fight the boss. The boss would then actually be a boss, instead of more like a timer. As it is currently, it's more of a game to see if you can survive adds long enough for the boss' health to reach zero. Spider Queen is THE BIGGEST offender of this, being as the only strategy is to out DPS her heal, since you can't stop it.
I have less of a problem with the normal bosses spawning a bunch of adds. Their entire design is to be a bigger and badder version of a normal add. There is very little extra design that can be tossed in to make them more interesting, so leaving them with the current system is fine. Final bosses, however, need to actually be an interesting fight that not only takes strong gear but also intellect.
They wouldn't even need to reduce HP, all they'd really need to do is make damage resistance 0%, making armor penetration a pure bonus damage stat (as opposed to bringing players back up to what they should be doing). I think most of the problem here is that, by and large, people don't understand the armor penetration stat and so are running little to none of it. From my limited understanding of it, bosses have something like 24% of damage mitigation that players have to burn through somehow (lesser plaguefire on my rogue's main weapon, for instance, which supposedly stacks 3 5% defense reductions + wicked reminder stacking, for whatever that accomplishes, since (and this is entirely Cryptic's fault) its tooltip explains jack squat).
Inspect your teammates, particularly your GWFs and TRs, and watch what they do in a boss battle. If they're running low armor pen and not doing anything about it, they're useless as teammates.
From my understanding Wicked Reminder ("WR") functions as straight +damage. So you can reduce a mob's mitigation with APen and do additional damage per application of WR. WR is a huuuuuge damage ability on bosses and most mobs that won't die in a very short period of time. For as cool as the ability is (it's one of the few abilities that lets me feel like I have a real rotation), what I'm most frustrated with is seeing how long the debuff will last on any given mob. It can be hard to see debuff timers under a mob's healthbar. How long does WR even last? Does the tooltip say?
And it is sad if melee DPS aren't stacking APen. If you go out of your way to buy high quality items off the AH at 60 and don't give a thought to stat allocation, you'll end up with a bunch of +HP, deflect, lifesteal, etc. Ugh! While that adds to gearscore, it's often better (and cheaper) to go for a lower quality item for DPS.
WR appears to last something like 8 seconds per hit, since it needs to be constantly applied to remain useful - after 8 seconds on the fifth hit, the whole stack disappears if it's not reapplied before then. This isn't actually explained in the tooltip though.
I don't disagree that both WR and APen are great. What I meant is that I think they function a little differently; WR gives you a damage boost even if a mob's armor is already reduced to 0. So APen and WR are additive and of course TRs should both stack APen to cap and also use WR in their rotations. I'm just not sure what WR is doing technically--making the mob more "vulnerable" to your attacks or making your attacks do more damage. And I totally agree that the tooltips could use some work.
Maybe they are being fought they way they were designed to be fought?
Spellplague for example? IMO, the fights were designed for a CW to handle adds by either CC'ing them permanently or by punting them into the nether.
As far as dealing more damage in PVE i'm indifferent on that. A 25% damage boost will still not make it worthwhile to kill the adds in most the boss fights imo.
After that, think about Draco lich fight without repel to opposite wall.