tweeter83Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
i just wish our aoe taunt actually aoe'd and hit more than 5 ****ing things
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vactuskasunMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited May 2013
Apparently you never played STO. DPS or go home has been the Cryptic/PWE model for awhile now. I haven't been playing long, but I didn't see a threat drop for DPS in game. I've seen 'generate x amount less', but not an actual drop. Want to tank? DPS harder.
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strategiczMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
You do realize to get aggro from bigger/ stronger enemies....You have to manually mark them with your mark skill.
All these people complaining about threat issues with the GF and probably didnt even read the feats/skills that increase the threat the GF generates.
My complaint is not threat itself. I said many times that a GF going full DPS can hold threat just fine and that it what I had to do myself. I decided to try and stick the game out a bit longer so I had no other choice but to conform to the mechanics of the current game. However, the problem is that the tactician and defender paths (they are the ones I want to play) are completely gimped and cannot be used in the game unless you want to do absolutely nothing in a dungeon group.
I am asking for better single target threat for the other two paths and to make GF's feel like less of a DPS with a shield and let people who want to focus more on supporting the team/surviving better and not make damage the only viable end-game option.
I have cleared every single dungeon in the game. all T1, all T2 and Castle Never. I am not saying it is impossible to do the content, because I was in fact able to clear everything. However, my major problem is that I can't play the two paths that interest me the most because they are simply not viable.
Maybe this will help clarify the whole argument so you can see the big picture. Not all of us are happy being forced into the Conq path and the other two need to be buffed to be brought up to equal level.
The whole "LOL DPS OR GO HOME" argument just proves how freaking broken the GF is outside of one specific path. If you think the other two paths should be ignored then they should just remove them from the game, change the class name to simply fighter and remove any reference of it being a tank from the game.
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cihuacoatlMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited May 2013
There is no tanking in this game... GF either pay PWE to change to DPS Conq or they stop playing once they get to T2.
WHERE ARE THE CLASS DEVS!
WEEK 4 - and they have not shown us anything... or fixed anything
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cihuacoatlMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited May 2013
Oh wait let me guess they are working on ranger and warlock while the active community suffers playing broken <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
I hear ya OP and agree. But they need to take some things away from GF before they fix the tanking skills you currently have. The devs need to take away your ability to block everything nearly 100% of the time, don't bother stating you cant do this, we had 3 people on one guardian with Gearscores of 9k and the guardian blocked 100% of all daily and encounter skills for over 3 minutes on one point taking no damage, as soon as they remove that ability I will agree with you to do whatever you want. Chuckle.
That is completely false, in PvE spec full defense and extra guard and even get the set that gives more guard and it lasts ~3 sec and certain bosses can remove it in 1 shot and still do damage. Now again in PvP spec full defense and extra guard stats and your guard meter drains quickly and TR's can crit you for 30,000. If you ever played GF then you would've known the Block is near useless in many cases.
The problem with guardians IMO is not aggro management - we have an aoe taunt and a single target taunt via knights challenge. The problem lies in our survivability. We are only given slightly higher HP and resistance value so any face tanking can be done with any class. Our shift ability - block, is suppose to be the answer.
For those that do not play a guardian, whenever we put our shield up, we take damage with our block bar. The block bar gets depleted way to fast in any encounters that actually matters. For example, the wolf den boss. I have no problems getting the aggro of the shadow wolves that chases the cleric. The issue is after the taunt, now what? I have now several angry wolfs that deals extreme damage each and breaks our block bar in less than a sec. So instead of the cleric dying, we die instead.
IMO a very simple fix to the guardian is to tie the block bar not to damage, but to a duration instead. I.e. whenever the GF puts the shield up the block bar depletes at a set rate. He can no longer block when the bar is empty. However, when he is blocking, he is immune to any frontal damage and effects. This way, the GF can at least ensure a few seconds of survival when he taunts.
We can start off by having a 4 second block duration with a full bar and balance it off from there.
You should just quit playing as a GF if that's what you think the problem is. Same thing for the majority of people who QQ about GF.
GF with enhanced mark generate quadruple threat. Tell me if that is not enough to hold aggro. The problem, as I mentioned, is the block breaks too quickly. If the block can be guaranteed to last a couple seconds, that will make a NON-DPS spec-ed guardian much much better at maintaining aggro.
I play a 11k Geared Guardian on Dragon (and a Geared cleric and CW)
Tanking In t1 and t2/Never I can hold aggro when I want to (even from a very geared Rogue 12k Guildie), I am full "tank" build, you underestimate the damage reduction capabilities of Mark and what a good tank can do for your group. Tanking is very specific on how to build aggro and hold it, its very positional and yes, Knight valor bug's but you can tank with out it. In a dungeon I usually come just above the cleric in damage. you don't need DPS to tank effectively. Manage your marks.
Required, Enhanced Mark.
Step 1, Mark EVERYTHING! (if you spec full tank your mark reduces 10% of damage on other's (not you)
Step 2, Enforced threat.
Step 3, Get your dps to Focus fire and Hold shift and left click on the mob they are attacking (its a taunt) Full tank again, hit mob this reduces the damage the mob does.
Step 4, When your group pulls aggro (yes they will but I like its not a 1 click, you have to fight for it.) Knight's Valor if its not working run Into the fray the Temp HP added its consided a heal the additional threat produced on a MARKED target is Huge.
Step 5. Repeat.
Tip. Flip Line attack mob's, tell your group what you need surprisingly they listen.
We don't run duel cleric, why? because its an abuse of an ability, People tell me all the time, "enter dungeon name here" you have to have 2 cleric's, Cleared all t1 and t2 with 1 Cleric 1 tank. Also 4/5 in Never with One Cleric Working on 5th.
Out of all my Character's my tank is the most fun and the hardest to play well. Broken... Not really apart from Knight's Valor, completely useless.. No.
Stop exploiting, glitching and trying to Ezy-mode everything. The amount of groups I go into (when Pugging) who Hide on walls, make bosses kill themselves, pull bosses back because they are too hard with add's, exploit non attackable location's is sad, they wont even try to fight a boss like the game designed it.
Comments
My complaint is not threat itself. I said many times that a GF going full DPS can hold threat just fine and that it what I had to do myself. I decided to try and stick the game out a bit longer so I had no other choice but to conform to the mechanics of the current game. However, the problem is that the tactician and defender paths (they are the ones I want to play) are completely gimped and cannot be used in the game unless you want to do absolutely nothing in a dungeon group.
I am asking for better single target threat for the other two paths and to make GF's feel like less of a DPS with a shield and let people who want to focus more on supporting the team/surviving better and not make damage the only viable end-game option.
I have cleared every single dungeon in the game. all T1, all T2 and Castle Never. I am not saying it is impossible to do the content, because I was in fact able to clear everything. However, my major problem is that I can't play the two paths that interest me the most because they are simply not viable.
Maybe this will help clarify the whole argument so you can see the big picture. Not all of us are happy being forced into the Conq path and the other two need to be buffed to be brought up to equal level.
The whole "LOL DPS OR GO HOME" argument just proves how freaking broken the GF is outside of one specific path. If you think the other two paths should be ignored then they should just remove them from the game, change the class name to simply fighter and remove any reference of it being a tank from the game.
WHERE ARE THE CLASS DEVS!
WEEK 4 - and they have not shown us anything... or fixed anything
You should just quit playing as a GF if that's what you think the problem is. Same thing for the majority of people who QQ about GF.
GF with enhanced mark generate quadruple threat. Tell me if that is not enough to hold aggro. The problem, as I mentioned, is the block breaks too quickly. If the block can be guaranteed to last a couple seconds, that will make a NON-DPS spec-ed guardian much much better at maintaining aggro.
Tanking In t1 and t2/Never I can hold aggro when I want to (even from a very geared Rogue 12k Guildie), I am full "tank" build, you underestimate the damage reduction capabilities of Mark and what a good tank can do for your group. Tanking is very specific on how to build aggro and hold it, its very positional and yes, Knight valor bug's but you can tank with out it. In a dungeon I usually come just above the cleric in damage. you don't need DPS to tank effectively. Manage your marks.
Required, Enhanced Mark.
Step 1, Mark EVERYTHING! (if you spec full tank your mark reduces 10% of damage on other's (not you)
Step 2, Enforced threat.
Step 3, Get your dps to Focus fire and Hold shift and left click on the mob they are attacking (its a taunt) Full tank again, hit mob this reduces the damage the mob does.
Step 4, When your group pulls aggro (yes they will but I like its not a 1 click, you have to fight for it.) Knight's Valor if its not working run Into the fray the Temp HP added its consided a heal the additional threat produced on a MARKED target is Huge.
Step 5. Repeat.
Tip. Flip Line attack mob's, tell your group what you need surprisingly they listen.
We don't run duel cleric, why? because its an abuse of an ability, People tell me all the time, "enter dungeon name here" you have to have 2 cleric's, Cleared all t1 and t2 with 1 Cleric 1 tank. Also 4/5 in Never with One Cleric Working on 5th.
Out of all my Character's my tank is the most fun and the hardest to play well. Broken... Not really apart from Knight's Valor, completely useless.. No.
Stop exploiting, glitching and trying to Ezy-mode everything. The amount of groups I go into (when Pugging) who Hide on walls, make bosses kill themselves, pull bosses back because they are too hard with add's, exploit non attackable location's is sad, they wont even try to fight a boss like the game designed it.