Ppl that are no good at pvp, ppl that can only beat computer generated opponents that always follow the same pattern and timers, those are the ones that slam pvp. They are low to no skill players that want games to be easy mode. ALL PVE is EZ mode. You can ALWAYS beat even the "hardest" NPCs in the game in time. Not true of players. PvP separates the men from the women.
This is exactly why pve players don't want you around and are getting tired of sharing games with people like you.
This is why I would rather they just removed all pvp from the game. Not because I don't want to play it ever. I like some pvp when I am in the mood for it. but I would gladly do without to starve out the "pvp is the only real way to play" types.
This is exactly why pve players don't want you around and are getting tired of sharing games with people like you.
This is why I would rather they just removed all pvp from the game. Not because I don't want to play it ever. I like some pvp when I am in the mood for it. but I would gladly do without to starve out the "pvp is the only real way to play" types.
Don't worry, his epeen will shrink without an arena rating and he'll run away soon enough
This is exactly why pve players don't want you around and are getting tired of sharing games with people like you.
This is why I would rather they just removed all pvp from the game. Not because I don't want to play it ever. I like some pvp when I am in the mood for it. but I would gladly do without to starve out the "pvp is the only real way to play" types.
Look, the PVP community doesn't come here crying about PVE and how it affects PVP balance. You ppl are such a whiny bunch! Just fight you little dragons and dont let the fact that ppl are having fun PVPing ruin your day.
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dcoy1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I'm tired of misinformed posts like this. FACT - In D&D there IS PvP. you can attack players whenever you want. In fact my friends and I used to duel each other all the time in 1981 tabletop. FACT #2 - People WANT PvP, and there IS PvP, and it is definitely NOT an afterthought. DEAL WITH IT.
Back then it was the difference between Roleplayers and wargammers. Just because you used a roleplaying game to feed your wargaming fetish didn't make DnD a pvp game. You could pvp, but it was, always has been and still is a roleplaying and a storytelling game.
All die, so die well.
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leissesMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited April 2013
kilo418 I can show you a lot of PvP haters posts in this topic and many others that are much more offensive and childish than mmoplaya1971's one. Don't judge the PvP community because one player sent a trolling message.
And after all these pages of PvP Haters being aggresive and saying PvPers should leave this game and play another thing this kind of message were more than expected. Those PvP Haters are FLAMING all topics about PvP in forum.
Back then it was the difference between Roleplayers and wargammers. Just because you used a roleplaying game to feed your wargaming fetish didn't make DnD a pvp game. You could pvp, but it was, always has been and still its a roleplaying and a storytelling game.
Well that's the great thing about DnD. It is what you want it to be. Cryptic has chosen to incorporate PvP in its implementation of DnD. Move on, enjoy. I am just tired of ppl coming here attacking PvP. Get over it!
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zartanisMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited April 2013
No I agree let the PvP players have there PvP server and us PvE players have our server keep them seperate.
kilo418 I can show you a lot of PvP haters posts in this topic and many others that are much more offensive and childish than mmoplaya1971's one. Don't judge the PvP community because one player sent a trolling message.
And after all these pages of PvP Haters being aggresive and saying PvPers should leave this game and play another thing this kind of message were more than expected. Those PvP Haters are FLAMING all topics about PvP in forum.
I have no problem with pvp at all, I do it from time to time myself. I just don't like a certain variety of player it tends to breed. I am not advocating the poor attitudes from the PVE community, I am only addressing the pvp attitude in this thread, as it is a thread about pvp.
Look, the PVP community doesn't come here crying about PVE and how it affects PVP balance. You ppl are such a whiny bunch! Just fight you little dragons and dont let the fact that ppl are having fun PVPing ruin your day.
That is BS. Pvpers cry about every little thing that impacts pvp balance. You don't hear them say anything about PvE because they don't care if it gets impacted or wrecked or anything else. They simply cry as loudly as possible until x gets nerfed regardless the impact. If you can go have fun without <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> up the PvE in the game and without forcing me into your pvp games then I have no problem with you and your buddies stabbing each other to your heart's content. The problem is when you want something you never consider who all it will impact.
That is BS. Pvpers cry about every little thing that impacts pvp balance. You don't hear them say anything about PvE because they don't care if it gets impacted or wrecked or anything else. They simply cry as loudly as possible until x gets nerfed regardless the impact. If you can go have fun without <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> up the PvE in the game and without forcing me into your pvp games then I have no problem with you and your buddies stabbing each other to your heart's content. The problem is when you want something you never consider who all it will impact.
Ok, well I wont say you are not telling the truth, but please provide some links to threads on this site where a PVPer has come to complain about PVE balancing and how it can negatively impact PVP. Because I can probably show you a hundred of the opposite kind.
That is BS. Pvpers cry about every little thing that impacts pvp balance. You don't here them say anything about PvE because they don't care if it gets impacted or wrecked or anything else. They simply cry as loudly as possible until x gets nerfed regardless the impact. If you can go have fun without <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> up the PvE in the game and without forcing me into your pvp games then I have no problem with you and your buddies stabbing each other to your heart's content. The problem is when you want something you never consider who all it will impact.
PvEers cry about every little thing that impacts pve balance. You don't hear them say anything about PvP because they don't care if it gets impacted or wrecked or anything else. They simply cry as loudly as possible until x gets nerfed regardless of the impact. If you can go have fun without <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> up the PvP in the game and without forcing me into your pve runs then I have no problem with you and your buddies slaying dragons to your heart's content. The problem is when you want something you never consider who all it will impact.
Ok, well I wont say you are not telling the truth, but please provide some links to threads on this site where a PVPer has come to complain about PVE balancing and how it can negatively impact PVP. Because I can probably show you a hundred of the opposite kind.
See any "Nerf TR DPS" thread, as no one wants the dps nerfed for pve.
PvEers cry about every little thing that impacts pve balance. You don't hear them say anything about PvP because they don't care if it gets impacted or wrecked or anything else. They simply cry as loudly as possible until x gets nerfed regardless of the impact. If you can go have fun without <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> up the PvP in the game and without forcing me into your pve runs then I have no problem with you and your buddies slaying dragons to your heart's content. The problem is when you want something you never consider who all it will impact.
Which is why the two communities should be in separate games. And I am sorry. I have never seen even the hardcore pve endgamers complain so much about balance as the pvpers. Not even close. They do complain a lot and I understand that not all pvpers are like that but the vocal pvp whiners are a breed of their own.
Grow up. Guess what, it is an afterthought... Just because you used to kill your party and have orc's drop + 5 plate mail doesn't mean that's what 99.9 of everyone else did.
Indeed, as was written in "Ode to Lichlament and friends" paragraph 4, and I quote:
The pve crowd are so pure and upstanding. You will never see them trolling constructive posts about how to enhance the already great pvp in this game. They never stoop to insulting, brow-bashing, or demeaning others, or telling them to just "go play another game".
Which is why the two communities should be in separate games. And I am sorry. I have never seen even the hardcore pve endgamers complain so much about balance as the pvpers. Not even close. They do complain a lot and I understand that not all pvpers are like that but the vocal pvp whiners are a breed of their own.
Yes I feel it, this familiar sound, like the harmonious tones of a dwarven death screech; you have reminded me again of one of my favorite passages from "Ode to Lichlament and friends:
And those pvpers. They are a scourge of the mmo player base. Horrible people.
In pve I have never had little Elins decked out in +12 VM gear jumping up and down in end-game dungeons demanding that I be kicked, spamming "kick, kick, kick" because I didn't have glowing gear; I have never had kills or nodes stolen, never had people maliciously following me around just to prevent me from levelling by stealing kills, never had people spamming obscenities in chat.
Remeber guy- just say no to pvp:
"give them an inch and they will take a mile; before you know it our whole game will be ruined. A single positive post about pvp threatens our very existence! "
It is, and I'll tell you why it is an honest question. The percentage of the very people who negatively impacted *my* gaming experiences describing *themselves* as griefers would undoubtedly approach zero. The percentage of the same which would describe themselves as PvP'ers would likely approach 100%. So, who is correct here, you, or those numerous others?
Part of my problem with PvP, and the community it inevitably fosters, is the pure, unadulterated, unbridled arrogance the PvP community constantly displays, either consciously, or subconsciously. It is this same sense of arrogance which gives rise to terms like "carebear" and its predecessor, "bluebie".
When braced about this, I've always been told that 'the community decided'. To which I invariably ask, when and where were discussions held, and a vote taken on this matter. Thereafter follows the sound of crickets chirping, because *nothing* of the kind ever happened. What *did* happen was that a minority subset of the community as whole rammed it down the rest of the community's throat crosswise.
I'm now going to ask you another *honest* question. Do you believe that these displays of unbridled arrogance really serve the PvP community well in relating to the MMO community at large?
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leissesMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I have no problem with pvp at all, I do it from time to time myself. I just don't like a certain variety of player it tends to breed. I am not advocating the poor attitudes from the PVE community, I am only addressing the pvp attitude in this thread, as it is a thread about pvp.
Are you really saying the PvP attitude in this thread was being worse than the PvP Haters attitude in the same thread? Really? Really?
Ok, well I wont say you are not telling the truth, but please provide some links to threads on this site where a PVPer has come to complain about PVE balancing and how it can negatively impact PVP. Because I can probably show you a hundred of the opposite kind.
Just to correct: it wasn't me who wrote that as it says in you quote :P
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leissesMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
It is, and I'll tell you why it is an honest question. The percentage of the very people who negatively impacted *my* gaming experiences describing *themselves* as griefers would undoubtedly approach zero. The percentage of the same which would describe themselves as PvP'ers would likely approach 100%. So, who is correct here, you, or those numerous others?
Part of my problem with PvP, and the community it inevitably fosters, is the pure, unadulterated, unbridled arrogance the PvP community constantly displays, either consciously, or subconsciously. It is this same sense of arrogance which gives rise to terms like "carebear" and its predecessor, "bluebie".
When braced about this, I've always been told that 'the community decided'. To which I invariably ask, when and where were discussions held, and a vote taken on this matter. Thereafter follows the sound of crickets chirping, because *nothing* of the kind ever happened. What *did* happen was that a minority subset of the community as whole rammed it down the rest of the community's throat crosswise.
I'm now going to ask you another *honest* question. Do you believe that these displays of unbridled arrogance really serve the PvP community well in relating to the MMO community at large?
It's not that PvE'ers griefers don't affect your game. The thing is that their grief is your grief so you don't bother with it.
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leissesMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited April 2013
Okay! I'll post one flame now. There are so many in this topic that mine will not make difference.
It's funny to see people talking about PvPers wanting to compare their e-peens while these PvP Haters are comparing the PvE-e-peen with PvP-e-peen so much. At least PvPers compare their own e-peen instead of a community e-peen.
Are you really saying the PvP attitude in this thread was being worse than the PvP Haters attitude in the same thread? Really? Really?
Just to correct: it wasn't me who wrote that as it says in you quote :P
No, I am not saying anything about anyone's attitude in this thread, I am strictly speaking about in-game attitude of "Hardcore PVPers".
This is a forum thread, of which contains it's own flavor of context. I am only discussing the attitudes in game of pvpers, I am not discussing pve players attitudes, as the topic of the thread is PVP
Which is why the two communities should be in separate games. And I am sorry. I have never seen even the hardcore pve endgamers complain so much about balance as the pvpers. Not even close. They do complain a lot and I understand that not all pvpers are like that but the vocal pvp whiners are a breed of their own.
Never seen people complaining that healer X is better than Y, or preserves mana better, or is a better MT healer? Never seen people complaining that a tank A is better than tank B? Never seen mages complaining that they should do same dps as rogues and not be just water vendors for their raids? Never seen people fighting to their teeth on forums about whether hybrids should do same dps as "pures"?
I understand that when something in the game changes because it was necessary for some other facet of the game that you don't care about it sucks, trust me, I understand it too well. I also understand that there is a cognitive bias about who whines louder and how impactful the changes from A affecting B and vice versa are. It sucks, and it would be best if PvP and PvE mechanics were as hermetic as it's humanly possible without making it two separate games. I do not expect this game to have a perfect PvP balance, not even close, I want this game to be an enjoyable dungeon crawler, because I actually do and enjoy both sides of the game. I totally expect the game design of Neverwinter to be primarily focused on PvE, and I'll suck up any changes done for the sake of PvE that negatively affect PvP - that's life. I think it's fair to ask in exchange for the same of people who do just PvE. There is PvP in this game, that is a fact, and it is realistic to expect that it will somehow affect PvE, even if (hopefully) rarely.
The bottom line of that is that we have to live with each other here, and if you want to be treated with respect, then respect has to be mutual. Any sane competitive player will be as negative towards a random halfwit telling you that this game should be all about PvP as you are, please do not cover us all with a blanket statements, and if you do have a personal grudge against PvPers then going to a thread about PvP on the forums is the worst possible way to avoid them.
Peace.
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dcoy1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited April 2013
I really hope Devs of both this game and others are reading and taking note. In the last 10 years the industry has gone from a handful of games to hundreds, maybe even thousands. Its time to stop trying to make every game for everyone. Find a market and appeal to them. Instead of PVE focus and watered down PVP, or vice versa, make those PVP only games. Make hardcore raiding games with 50 man raids again. Make fun exploration/social games with no real end game. Trying to clone WOW has failed over and over. Time for the industry to take note and do something different. Deliver the products people want. Do your niche and do it well.
I would like to share my comment on the PvP side of gaming in D&D, I don't think many people would mind getting into PvP ( use myself as Example here ) but it seems that most of the time it is close to being forced on an individual, I use a Game Called A**n here.
I tried this game and liked it right away, it looked awesome even on my old XP machine, and when I got my new rig it looked even better for the graphics.
All started out well enough, until I got further into the areas and then along came PvP side, I was constantly getting harassed by the Newbie Farmers, and that is what caused me to just up and leave that game.
Ok I understood that there were different factions fighting each other, but when you are in a exploring mode and your a first timer in a beautiful game, I just want to explore. I never got to the point that I could say, " Ok I looked around enough, maybe I should think about PvP and give that a try." it was thrust upon me, I had no choice in the matter, and it didn't help that I and or all were singled out ( As A Newbie,/fresh meat/easy kill for faction points, so the chicken ****z could buy there armour and weps with my easy gained points ). I tried to fight a few of the people but they were so uber that I and three others fought and the opponent literally stood there and we as 3 hardly made a dent in their HP. if this is what PvP is all about I will never take part in it, what fun is that when you Know you will always win.
For me D&D is about exploring dungeons, helping a small village, just plain Dungeon running, not senseless Hack&Slash by no means.
In my mind do I imagine PvP when I hear the words D&D ? Not really to be honest, Should there or could there be? Yes by all means, but it should be done In a mannor that you don't feel forced to do it or that it is thrust upon you from the start.
I would be up for having PvP open up to a player when I achieve a certain level, or even have a path to follow for that, so even though you may start the game as a new player you do so knowing your building your toon for PvP later in the game. No different then if you started out as a TWF type, as you get higher new stuff opens up to you to make you better.
It's very hard for me to completely get my thoughts across for PvP as I never really played that style before, But I hope some of what I am saying is conveying something to the idea of the O.P.
Cheers!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
" May The Wind be Always At Your Back "
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fractur3d20Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 17Arc User
Hey! What you say is actually not just what PvEers want, but also what a lot of PvPers want. When we talk about not neglecting PvP we don't talk about enforcing PvP everywhere all the time, but rather about making sure that whatever PvP there is is fun to play and gets some updates along the way with the rest of the content (be it new maps, game modes, rewards and what not).
Polls have been launched. PvP is an afterthought, if that, in D&D...
Since 1974 tabletop through today, D&D has been about PvE, adventuring, grouping and questing... this game is following the same paths that has made true D&D the product that has entranced millions of gamers over decades of play.
This is not your standard MMO. This is not your PvP mmo.
How many topics must the same people start to get this point across.
Yes please don't waste any R&D on PVP. There are several games that have turned into nothing but PVP, they can go play those.
I really never understood why people attack the PvP community, it is voluntary, if you don't like it then just don't participate in it.
The reason folks "attack the PVP community" (strong words there) is because they have seen it impact/degrade/destroy the PVE environment they love in other games. There is really no debating that this is a one-way nerf bat from PVP to PVE.
I like driving through the country enjoying the scenery. You like street racing. My style of driving might annoy you, but your style could destroy me. See the issue?
There is really no debating that this is a one-way nerf bat from PVP to PVE.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but no, it is not a one way relationship. PvE changes and updates can and often do drop the ball on PvP in MMOs - even in PvP focused ones. It doesn't even have to be class mechanics, it can be also items from PvE that are better at PvP than their PvP reward equivalents.
Comments
I refuse to believe this is an honest question.
This is exactly why pve players don't want you around and are getting tired of sharing games with people like you.
This is why I would rather they just removed all pvp from the game. Not because I don't want to play it ever. I like some pvp when I am in the mood for it. but I would gladly do without to starve out the "pvp is the only real way to play" types.
All die, so die well.
Don't worry, his epeen will shrink without an arena rating and he'll run away soon enough
Look, the PVP community doesn't come here crying about PVE and how it affects PVP balance. You ppl are such a whiny bunch! Just fight you little dragons and dont let the fact that ppl are having fun PVPing ruin your day.
I'm getting better. I'm 10 and 3 this month.
I could care less about arena, or any status. I simply like to have fun playing vs other players. You are showing ignorance! ;-)
Back then it was the difference between Roleplayers and wargammers. Just because you used a roleplaying game to feed your wargaming fetish didn't make DnD a pvp game. You could pvp, but it was, always has been and still is a roleplaying and a storytelling game.
All die, so die well.
And after all these pages of PvP Haters being aggresive and saying PvPers should leave this game and play another thing this kind of message were more than expected. Those PvP Haters are FLAMING all topics about PvP in forum.
Well that's the great thing about DnD. It is what you want it to be. Cryptic has chosen to incorporate PvP in its implementation of DnD. Move on, enjoy. I am just tired of ppl coming here attacking PvP. Get over it!
I have no problem with pvp at all, I do it from time to time myself. I just don't like a certain variety of player it tends to breed. I am not advocating the poor attitudes from the PVE community, I am only addressing the pvp attitude in this thread, as it is a thread about pvp.
That is BS. Pvpers cry about every little thing that impacts pvp balance. You don't hear them say anything about PvE because they don't care if it gets impacted or wrecked or anything else. They simply cry as loudly as possible until x gets nerfed regardless the impact. If you can go have fun without <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> up the PvE in the game and without forcing me into your pvp games then I have no problem with you and your buddies stabbing each other to your heart's content. The problem is when you want something you never consider who all it will impact.
All die, so die well.
Ok, well I wont say you are not telling the truth, but please provide some links to threads on this site where a PVPer has come to complain about PVE balancing and how it can negatively impact PVP. Because I can probably show you a hundred of the opposite kind.
PvEers cry about every little thing that impacts pve balance. You don't hear them say anything about PvP because they don't care if it gets impacted or wrecked or anything else. They simply cry as loudly as possible until x gets nerfed regardless of the impact. If you can go have fun without <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> up the PvP in the game and without forcing me into your pve runs then I have no problem with you and your buddies slaying dragons to your heart's content. The problem is when you want something you never consider who all it will impact.
See any "Nerf TR DPS" thread, as no one wants the dps nerfed for pve.
Which is why the two communities should be in separate games. And I am sorry. I have never seen even the hardcore pve endgamers complain so much about balance as the pvpers. Not even close. They do complain a lot and I understand that not all pvpers are like that but the vocal pvp whiners are a breed of their own.
All die, so die well.
Indeed, as was written in "Ode to Lichlament and friends" paragraph 4, and I quote:
Oh, here is another excellent post:
Yes I feel it, this familiar sound, like the harmonious tones of a dwarven death screech; you have reminded me again of one of my favorite passages from "Ode to Lichlament and friends:
Remeber guy- just say no to pvp:
"give them an inch and they will take a mile; before you know it our whole game will be ruined. A single positive post about pvp threatens our very existence! "
Part of my problem with PvP, and the community it inevitably fosters, is the pure, unadulterated, unbridled arrogance the PvP community constantly displays, either consciously, or subconsciously. It is this same sense of arrogance which gives rise to terms like "carebear" and its predecessor, "bluebie".
When braced about this, I've always been told that 'the community decided'. To which I invariably ask, when and where were discussions held, and a vote taken on this matter. Thereafter follows the sound of crickets chirping, because *nothing* of the kind ever happened. What *did* happen was that a minority subset of the community as whole rammed it down the rest of the community's throat crosswise.
I'm now going to ask you another *honest* question. Do you believe that these displays of unbridled arrogance really serve the PvP community well in relating to the MMO community at large?
Are you really saying the PvP attitude in this thread was being worse than the PvP Haters attitude in the same thread? Really? Really?
Just to correct: it wasn't me who wrote that as it says in you quote :P
It's not that PvE'ers griefers don't affect your game. The thing is that their grief is your grief so you don't bother with it.
It's funny to see people talking about PvPers wanting to compare their e-peens while these PvP Haters are comparing the PvE-e-peen with PvP-e-peen so much. At least PvPers compare their own e-peen instead of a community e-peen.
No, I am not saying anything about anyone's attitude in this thread, I am strictly speaking about in-game attitude of "Hardcore PVPers".
This is a forum thread, of which contains it's own flavor of context. I am only discussing the attitudes in game of pvpers, I am not discussing pve players attitudes, as the topic of the thread is PVP
Never seen people complaining that healer X is better than Y, or preserves mana better, or is a better MT healer? Never seen people complaining that a tank A is better than tank B? Never seen mages complaining that they should do same dps as rogues and not be just water vendors for their raids? Never seen people fighting to their teeth on forums about whether hybrids should do same dps as "pures"?
I understand that when something in the game changes because it was necessary for some other facet of the game that you don't care about it sucks, trust me, I understand it too well. I also understand that there is a cognitive bias about who whines louder and how impactful the changes from A affecting B and vice versa are. It sucks, and it would be best if PvP and PvE mechanics were as hermetic as it's humanly possible without making it two separate games. I do not expect this game to have a perfect PvP balance, not even close, I want this game to be an enjoyable dungeon crawler, because I actually do and enjoy both sides of the game. I totally expect the game design of Neverwinter to be primarily focused on PvE, and I'll suck up any changes done for the sake of PvE that negatively affect PvP - that's life. I think it's fair to ask in exchange for the same of people who do just PvE. There is PvP in this game, that is a fact, and it is realistic to expect that it will somehow affect PvE, even if (hopefully) rarely.
The bottom line of that is that we have to live with each other here, and if you want to be treated with respect, then respect has to be mutual. Any sane competitive player will be as negative towards a random halfwit telling you that this game should be all about PvP as you are, please do not cover us all with a blanket statements, and if you do have a personal grudge against PvPers then going to a thread about PvP on the forums is the worst possible way to avoid them.
Peace.
I would like to share my comment on the PvP side of gaming in D&D, I don't think many people would mind getting into PvP ( use myself as Example here ) but it seems that most of the time it is close to being forced on an individual, I use a Game Called A**n here.
I tried this game and liked it right away, it looked awesome even on my old XP machine, and when I got my new rig it looked even better for the graphics.
All started out well enough, until I got further into the areas and then along came PvP side, I was constantly getting harassed by the Newbie Farmers, and that is what caused me to just up and leave that game.
Ok I understood that there were different factions fighting each other, but when you are in a exploring mode and your a first timer in a beautiful game, I just want to explore. I never got to the point that I could say, " Ok I looked around enough, maybe I should think about PvP and give that a try." it was thrust upon me, I had no choice in the matter, and it didn't help that I and or all were singled out ( As A Newbie,/fresh meat/easy kill for faction points, so the chicken ****z could buy there armour and weps with my easy gained points ). I tried to fight a few of the people but they were so uber that I and three others fought and the opponent literally stood there and we as 3 hardly made a dent in their HP. if this is what PvP is all about I will never take part in it, what fun is that when you Know you will always win.
For me D&D is about exploring dungeons, helping a small village, just plain Dungeon running, not senseless Hack&Slash by no means.
In my mind do I imagine PvP when I hear the words D&D ? Not really to be honest, Should there or could there be? Yes by all means, but it should be done In a mannor that you don't feel forced to do it or that it is thrust upon you from the start.
I would be up for having PvP open up to a player when I achieve a certain level, or even have a path to follow for that, so even though you may start the game as a new player you do so knowing your building your toon for PvP later in the game. No different then if you started out as a TWF type, as you get higher new stuff opens up to you to make you better.
It's very hard for me to completely get my thoughts across for PvP as I never really played that style before, But I hope some of what I am saying is conveying something to the idea of the O.P.
Cheers!
" May The Wind be Always At Your Back "
On both sides.
Hey! What you say is actually not just what PvEers want, but also what a lot of PvPers want. When we talk about not neglecting PvP we don't talk about enforcing PvP everywhere all the time, but rather about making sure that whatever PvP there is is fun to play and gets some updates along the way with the rest of the content (be it new maps, game modes, rewards and what not).
Yes please don't waste any R&D on PVP. There are several games that have turned into nothing but PVP, they can go play those.
The reason folks "attack the PVP community" (strong words there) is because they have seen it impact/degrade/destroy the PVE environment they love in other games. There is really no debating that this is a one-way nerf bat from PVP to PVE.
I like driving through the country enjoying the scenery. You like street racing. My style of driving might annoy you, but your style could destroy me. See the issue?
Sorry to burst your bubble, but no, it is not a one way relationship. PvE changes and updates can and often do drop the ball on PvP in MMOs - even in PvP focused ones. It doesn't even have to be class mechanics, it can be also items from PvE that are better at PvP than their PvP reward equivalents.