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GF the only Class without Stamina
zardoz007
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 2 Arc User
This has been bugging me lately but the GF is the only class that does not have a Stamina ability. I know for all other classes Stamina is the defensive move and GF get block.
But to me it feels like Block is comparable to GWF Unstoppable or TR Stealth. It is the bar of extra power that all classes get but for the GF it uses the Shift Key and not Tab. Meaning that the GF does not get something that all classes have, a Stamina power.
Now the GF's Tab key is Mark. I have seen posts that label this as a boring ability. You hit it only when you are in a group, never for solo and it helps you generate more threat after you hit monsters. So yeah it is kinda boring and no where near as impressive as other tab abilities like Unstoppable or Stealth.
I'm really wondering Why marking is not a class feature ability that increases threat and gives other advantages. The GF tab key would better serve as a passive threat gain then a boring I hit Tab and then I do other stuff, over time I make more threat.
Does anyone else think it would be more interesting and more inline with other classes if.
GF got a Stamina Sprint like the GWF (Just as long as they cannot spec it like a GWF can and it cannot be nearly as good)
and make Marking a Class feature that marks all targets you attack for increased threat.
And turn Block into the Tab ability that is as cool as every other classes Tab ability.
On a Side note one other thing I noticed that the GF dont get that every other class gets is that they do not get a Stat that increases Crit chance. All other classes get this.
But to me it feels like Block is comparable to GWF Unstoppable or TR Stealth. It is the bar of extra power that all classes get but for the GF it uses the Shift Key and not Tab. Meaning that the GF does not get something that all classes have, a Stamina power.
Now the GF's Tab key is Mark. I have seen posts that label this as a boring ability. You hit it only when you are in a group, never for solo and it helps you generate more threat after you hit monsters. So yeah it is kinda boring and no where near as impressive as other tab abilities like Unstoppable or Stealth.
I'm really wondering Why marking is not a class feature ability that increases threat and gives other advantages. The GF tab key would better serve as a passive threat gain then a boring I hit Tab and then I do other stuff, over time I make more threat.
Does anyone else think it would be more interesting and more inline with other classes if.
GF got a Stamina Sprint like the GWF (Just as long as they cannot spec it like a GWF can and it cannot be nearly as good)
and make Marking a Class feature that marks all targets you attack for increased threat.
And turn Block into the Tab ability that is as cool as every other classes Tab ability.
On a Side note one other thing I noticed that the GF dont get that every other class gets is that they do not get a Stat that increases Crit chance. All other classes get this.
Post edited by zardoz007 on
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I think they shouldn't change the button for Bock from Shift to Tab since we use that skill a LOT and it is more confortable to click Shift instead of Tab.
But you are right about our Tab option, it is boring, BORING. They could've work better on it. And since it is something ALL GFs will have it should be something good at PvP too since not all GFs are purely PvE.
An idea would be that enemies marked will give less damage when attacking your teammates instead of you in addition to the threat generation.
I guess it just makes sense from a tank pov, but I do not like the mark system for the tab ability. The other classes got cool stuff, the clerics is just out right fun.
You're missing the entire point. The shift ability is the damage avoidance ability, and the GF has the best. Bar none. Also, if ANYONE uses your tab ability as "a boring I hit Tab and then I do other stuff, over time I make more threat" they are doing it wrong. The mark provides damage and threat over time, yes, but the main point is for you to attack the marked target because when you do so, you produce at least TWICE the threat from that attack. You don't just put tab on something and then hope it attacks you. Because it won't unless none of your party have touched it yet.
As far as flashy goes, we have a daily that sends columns of rent earth at your opponents and we become giants with Villain's Menace. I mean, what else do you want? Giving us a sprint would make us a bit OP. And last I checked crit chance buffs, like from lethal items still give us + to crit chance. Lack of mobility and generally weaker damage are supposed to be our downsides to balance out our great defense. I feel all in all our abilities are fine, especially considering fighters have never really been flashy in any game, and especially not in the D&D universe. I'm surprised we have an ability as cool as Terrifying Impact in the first place.
In 4E, marking a target gave it a -2 to all attacks not targeting you, and allowed you to respond violently if they dare to try anyway.
I think Marking a target should not only debuff their ability to harm your allies (ie damage reduction), but also if they do attack your allies and not you then the GF should get a damage buff against that target until they attack you again.
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Well, there is a feat you can get that makes it so enemies do 10% less damage to anyone they target that isn't you while they are marked. It's kind of like a +10% miss chance, or -2 to attack rolls. Kind of. Do you know if the damage increase from a mark applies to only to you or to the rest of your party or both? I haven't been able to figure that one out myself.
Or we can compare Marking to the other classes Tab powers and It falls insanely short on that point. As it is the only Tab ability of any class that is useless in Solo. Yes I know it DOUBLES threat in dungeons and it is an essential power for the GF. But too me it makes more sense that it should be a passive ability that doubles your threat, because as a Stand alone power it does nothing without using other moves that make threat to get the benefit. I never assumed it was a taunt like you suggested I did.
I think the biggest problem is with the GF's tab power in general. Not with how block works. But because of how useful block is, it feels like it should be a Tab power. I would like to see anything that makes the GF's Tab power on Par with other classes Tab powers but If they did that then the GF would be over powered. "Think GF with Unstoppable and Block". I do not see how giving the GF Sprint will make them over powered. I don't even think most GF's will use Sprint defensively if they had it, it is far inferior to block. GF's will use that move to engage. As a GWF I realized that you could either use Sprint to engage or you can use it to run away but not both. And I specced sprint.
But most of all I want to see the GF have a Stamina power and a stamina bar like every other class has, because all classes should follow this simple build, why should GF be any different. Because they get a Cool Block power that makes any movement power they would have meaningless for defense. So just dont bother giving them a movement power even though every other class gets one.
It doesnt give you a damage increase, it gives the target lower damage resistance which should mean that everyone attacking the target will do more damage against it.
As for the OPs issues I dont really think we need or should have a stamina ability but I completly agree with you that the mark ability needs some love
I may be wrong here as I cannot log in for another 9 days
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@zardoz007: I understand where you're coming from, but do you really care about that particular detail of uniformity in the classes? The GF's Shift ability is different from the other classes, ie not a mobility power that uses Stamina. Block is, in my opinion, superior to all other classes' Shift powers because you don't have to stop attacking to use it, and you still negate all damage coming at you (from the front). The GF's Tab ability on the other hand is somewhat less powerful than the Tab powers of the other classes. It might take some tweaking but balance can be achieved between the respective power disparities.
@hosierman1: Read; first sentence of @Unjustblade.
Must have been another Zardoz then. Oh wait... Also, with your proposed changes it would drastically shorten the range at which you can effectively start drawing aggro from enemies, seeing as you would have to use lunging strike, which has a much shorter distance than the mark. With mark, I can stay well out of range and mark 4-6 targets easy before they close with me, then start hitting them the moment they get in range. Difference being, this acts as a pull. With mark, all I have to do is move my reticle across the enemies and hit tab. It's that fast and that simple.
Sorry man, but the way you worded your sentence in the first quote makes me think of a GF marking targets then going off in a corner somewhere to draw pictures on a wall. Maybe a case of RAI vs. RAW.
The game eventually got overhauled so that all heroes of all types got stack-able buffs, Healers, Ranged Damage, Melee, Damage, Controllers, and DOT users.
This situation with the GF is reminding me of that. Best to jump on it now before we get a major change much later in the game.
I agree that Mark has a unique application to pulls, but does this really hold up to other classes Mark abilities?
As for GF's lack of stamina what really bugs me about that is that Block is not based on Stamina, yet it fulfills the same purpose as other classes Stamina moves. But it works the same as other classes Tab moves, IE used of an energy bar that is filled up during combat and keys off many other abilities and powers to make it better.
This combination to me feels like the GF got shafted with their Stamina Power or their Tab Power. Based on responses I have been reading most ppl feel that the GF needs a better Tab. I'd be cool with some mobility.
But for Mark to be on par with other classes Tab powers it needs to have a significant effect that you will use in every fight or at least every other fight. IE Mark would need a very significant debuff that helps the GF alot.
And comparing Mark to a Stamina move is flawed. First because it is a Tab move it should be comparable to other Tab moves which it is not. And second because it does not do what all Stamina moves in the game do, provide mobility.
This is what i was thinking too, it is our "Stamina" ability it just goes off our shield and not our over all char.
As far as the Tab being useless, i use it a lot in bigger groups, will tab the main boss, before he gets to us so i have first aggro, then hit my AE taunt that does some DMG and wail away on the boss. If there are no CC Wizzies then some of the small guys may get lose but DPS finishes them off pretty fast, and i never lost aggro on any boss fight since they made the changes to GF and Cleric Aggro.
Effectiveness is sexy.
There is a certain poetry in what is simple but works. Let the wizards fling magic missiles and rings of frost. Let the rogues flash around the battlefield. Lets the clerics drop angels from the heavens.
Without us, none of that stuff matters. That is the enjoyment. That is the fun. Being the garrison that stands resolute and allows your team mates to bring the pain - that's the essence of the guardian fighter. If you want to be flashy, there are other options. If you want to be essential... you say boring. I say fun is in the eye of the beholder.
But not real beholders. Seriously. Kill them with fire.
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That is how taunts work in SWTOR PVP. Whoever you taunt does less damage to anyone they attack other than you.