to a CW from a TR (ice storm)

zalathorm7

Hello wizzies,

I do not like when you ice storm. Grats on using your cool looking daily, but it messes up the nice stacking that makes them die faster.

Regards,
A rogue

lanessar13

I've played a CW to 40 in the last BWE, and honestly, there's no reason to use Ice Storm when Arcane Singularity or Oppressive Force will work better.

And repel should not be on your bar, at all, in an instanced dungeon. Using this ability totally borks the tank's threat gen and just sticks mobs to you harder. The moment I see a CW use this in a dungeon, especially on Tab, I know that wizard will die at the higher levels repeatedly, then quit.

millertime197933

I played a CW and I understand your pain on icestorm. I disagree that arcane singularity works better though. For me, icestorm did almost twice the damage as arcane singularity, and also went off immedietly after clicking. With arcane singularity, you have to hit the 1 key (or 2 key), then you have to "place" where you want it to take affect, thereby losing even more dps for the time it takes to target. It was hard for me not to load icestorm due to the DPS. I realize it reduces others DPS so it is all about when to use it. If a bunch of trash was low on life, I would click. If it was against a boss, I would click as soon as available since the boss didn't get knocked back. Since CW blows against bosses, the extra icestorm dps helps. Unfortunately some folks just want to top the DPS charts at the end of the skirmish or dungeon, so they aren't gonna think about the groups overall performance. If ice knife was available before level 40 and had a bigger boost in single target damage, I think you would see the icestorms go away on dungeon/skirmishes.

licourtrix1

Once some lvls are gained ice storm goes away, arcane singularity works much better on later levels as it gathers all the mobs in one place making your aoe's much more effective. The only real use for ice storm is to knock the mobs of a ledge for an instant death. From around lvl 45 on you will see that most cw's will not use ice storm.

mathbath

Ice storm is pretty much great in PvP. Both Oppressive Force and Arcane Singularity can be dodged/ran out of. And repel is a nigh must have on your bar in PvP. In PvE, I agree. Repel has no place, and Arcane Singularity is the beez kneez for grouping up mobs so our tanks and melee dps can go to town in a fancy coach.

gaymer87

I honestly use repel and icestorm just to annoy people.

keterys

Oh, it's not just a TR objection.

My CW grouped with another CW who was using Repel and Ice Storm liberally and I frequently was cursing as he screwed up my AE packs.

psiwuff

I try to avoid using ice storm in instances as well, plus oppressive force seems to do more damage anyways. As for repel, right now it's my 4th encounter power for lack of alternatives, so I just use it to shove away any mobs that get close to the squishies, then CC them if I can.
I do however look forward to having a "proper" instance lineup that will make do without repel.

wingedkagouti

millertime197933 wrote: »

I played a CW and I understand your pain on icestorm. I disagree that arcane singularity works better though. For me, icestorm did almost twice the damage as arcane singularity, and also went off immedietly after clicking. With arcane singularity, you have to hit the 1 key (or 2 key), then you have to "place" where you want it to take affect, thereby losing even more dps for the time it takes to target.

Whereas Ice Storm screws over any future dps you might be putting out since everything (except control immune bosses) will be scattered instead of bunched up for futher AoE dps. Anything that you don't kill outright with Ice Storm is going to take quite a bit longer to kill than if you'd used Arcane Singularity instead. And in a group setting you're rarely going to kill everything you hit with an Ice Storm.

steampunky

lanessar13 wrote: »

I've played a CW to 40 in the last BWE, and honestly, there's no reason to use Ice Storm when Arcane Singularity or Oppressive Force will work better.

And repel should not be on your bar, at all, in an instanced dungeon. Using this ability totally borks the tank's threat gen and just sticks mobs to you harder. The moment I see a CW use this in a dungeon, especially on Tab, I know that wizard will die at the higher levels repeatedly, then quit.

Hey... I love putting repel into my Spell Mastery slot, even on teams. ESPECIALLY in instanced dungeons. But only with a tank and team who can understand how I use it.

Namely pinning enemies to a nice flat wall (never in caves, only flat stone walls will do) or into a corner (no vertical slope, though, has to be sharp and flat) so they stay nice and tightly packed for my AoEs, the Tank's threat, and the GWF's murder-field.

Knockback is awesome when you know how to use it.

-Rachel-

bardbarian

This DC agrees! The cleric has some sick AoE powers! That don't work when the CW spreads out the mobs... The cleric has a power that can push back enemies too, and I usually only ever use it like that to get mobs off the CW that just drew too much threat...

reallyevilpigeon

Dear rogue,
If you used your overpowered dps better we wouldn't need to use our Icestorm

Sincerely yours,
Control wizard.

P.S have you seen my wand of magic missle?

derressh

Dear Fellow Control Wizard,
Ice Storm is counter-productive for everyone in group dungeons, including ourselves. Arcane Singularity + AoE spells plz. Unless the Ice Storm is being used to knock the mobs off a cliff.

Sincerely yours,
A CW that loves AoEing

P.S no

reallyevilpigeon

We used to have a saying in neverwinter nights 1. if your dev critting your not doing enough damage. I actually use AS and not icestorm but I was hopping since there seems to be a war going on between CW and TR we would unite together under one glorious banner in which we would need a golem to hold up for us because we are either to old or sexy for such work.

ace0darkness

lanessar13 wrote: »

I've played a CW to 40 in the last BWE, and honestly, there's no reason to use Ice Storm when Arcane Singularity or Oppressive Force will work better.

And repel should not be on your bar, at all, in an instanced dungeon. Using this ability totally borks the tank's threat gen and just sticks mobs to you harder. The moment I see a CW use this in a dungeon, especially on Tab, I know that wizard will die at the higher levels repeatedly, then quit.

Wow- way to be single minded. Repel as Spell Mastery will never leave my side except for when building my aoe frost build. Granted, I play as basically the aoe off tank on my Control Wizard by means of kiting. But I don't see your argument at all. During boss fights, they can't usually be repel'ed anyways so its a simple damage boost. During mini-boss (or elites, what have you) if a tank is blocking the wrong way, or can't get out of a large melee aoe in time, knock them back against a nearby wall to use as a spell breaker/interrupt. You just have to be smart on where your sending the enemy. Final point- even the best of tanks can't control everything, that is why we have control wizards. When adds spawn from behind the tank and rush your squishy- you often get thanks for covering their back's in a fight.

If you end up pulling aggro on anything you wish to get rid of you do simple dungeon tactics that crossover to almost every single rpg- RUN TO THE TANK and then cc/trap them there so they have time to build up. My control wizard 1v1 (when using the correct aoe cc, even 1v3) will never get touched by melee and is such built around cc and survivability to be a kite/offtank.

Bottom line- don't be so closed minded. Its an mmorpg that allows you to do what you want and have fun!

abaddonxk

Pretty much anything you can do with Repel in a group, you can do better with another power. The obvious exception is throwing mobs off a cliff, but there aren't all that many cliffs. Want a damage boost on a boss? Use an actual damage power. Want to interrupt a CC-able elite? Use any other CC, then nobody has to go chasing after them. Want to "AoE tank" adds? Stun them, freeze them, kill them, rather than throwing them around and kiting and making the run take much longer.

You can do whatever you want, yes, but that doesn't mean that whatever you want to do is going to be beneficial in a group setting. And when it's not, you have to realize that you're playing with other people, and that they may not appreciate your fun causing them less fun. I'm all for people using whatever builds they feel like using, but unless you're in a party with friends who don't mind, you can't expect people to be happy with anything you do just because it's fun for you, and you'll have to deal with the hate you'll get.

licourtrix1

Repel and icestorm have almost no place in a dungeon, and on higher lvls i've seen it wipe groups because a mob was repelled into a patrol or another group. Our cc options aren't so limited that repel is required, and in a group setting, ALL of our other cc skills are superior.

There are however a few fights where one or both of these skills are extremely helpful and expected to be used. I have no issue with them being used "effectively" in a boss fight, but not for trash.

ace0darkness

In any case your highest damage build that has aoe dps attached to descent passive CC would be an entire chill aoe build almost entirely forgetting any arcane abilities except maybe the aoe slow/stun

licourtrix1

ace0darkness wrote: »

In any case your highest damage build that has aoe dps attached to descent passive CC would be an entire chill aoe build almost entirely forgetting any arcane abilities except maybe the aoe slow/stun

I would argue that. All the skills that are not cold based are arcane, the highest aoe damage is sudden storm (non daily anyways) which is arcane. 2k+ damage non crit aoe is far more damage then any cold spell can get. Chill strike comes close but only to one target, the splash damage is not equal although needs less aiming.

rakunen

Haven't found a use for Ice Storm yet, Singularity is where it's at. I super love Repel very huggy much though, it almost feels like I can cure stupid with it. I can get bad dps to focus fire, push them in range of the clerics heals AND use it as crowd control when there's something the party isn't ready for.

kegorage

Why is it called ice storm anyway, I don't see shards of ice falling down, avalanche would be a better name for it.

violated87

It's funny because Ice Storm does the most damage which I assume is why a lot of CWs use it... but it hurts our own dps for the same reason (spread out and can't utilize other AOE spells).

imivo

I was just in a group with another CW who used Ice Storm, Repel and Shield (blowing it up). It was super annoying and my dps took a major hit because he would always do it when I cast Steal Time, or whenever mobs were bunched up. He still did less damage, but this way of playing is really a burden for the rest of the group.

novron

licourtrix1 wrote: »

I would argue that. All the skills that are not cold based are arcane, the highest aoe damage is sudden storm (non daily anyways) which is arcane. 2k+ damage non crit aoe is far more damage then any cold spell can get. Chill strike comes close but only to one target, the splash damage is not equal although needs less aiming.

Storm is not arcane. It's nothing until you feat it.

katszc

As a CW myself I hate when others use anything that scatters mobs around.
And often it's a dumb CW using it, it makes it harder for them aswell as the group.
CW has quite a lot of AoE capability, and if you're a CW yourself you should know better than to gimp yourself lol.

novron

Wrong thread.

vyssalare

imivo wrote: »

I was just in a group with another CW who used Ice Storm, Repel and Shield (blowing it up). It was super annoying and my dps took a major hit because he would always do it when I cast Steal Time, or whenever mobs were bunched up. He still did less damage, but this way of playing is really a burden for the rest of the group.

Shield isn't that inconveniencing if they use it correctly (push all mobs the same way) and does a ton of damage. Good CW can use shield to push mobs into stacks (caster into melee) since the radius isn't so big. Also clears low trash faster than anything.

lokaidraxmartis

i'm an ice mage...so i use ice storm... if thats a problem oo; to bad...

knoteskad

People should really reconsider Maelstrom.

It's like a beautiful blend of Singularity and Ice Storm.

Take all those mobs beating on your cleric and put them over

---

> there

In a tight little spot lol. Then a mastery Repel for good measure.

katszc

lokaidraxmartis wrote: »

i'm an ice mage...so i use ice storm... if thats a problem oo; to bad...

I'm an Ice CW too but I ain't dumb enough to scatter mobs around that would die faster using the numerous other AoE's an ice built CW gets.