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Best race for Guardian Fighter
bluesteel8
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 0 Arc User
Hi all, at the moment I understand that Dwarf is probably the best race for tanking. But I really dont like dwarves /duck
So my choice would be human. Do you think its a viable race for tanking. I understand its the all rounder race but its got a nice +3% to defence racial.
Considering the Half Orc also
Thoughts?
So my choice would be human. Do you think its a viable race for tanking. I understand its the all rounder race but its got a nice +3% to defence racial.
Considering the Half Orc also
Thoughts?
Post edited by bluesteel8 on
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http://guardianfighter.com/?p=6
Half Orc - can built a very well balanced GF (16/16/16 out of character creation with correct roll).
Halfling - best avoidance GF, if that's your thing.
Human - solidly good choice for GF.
By end game, gear should minimize any sort of advantage one race has over another, so pick the one that makes you happiest, honestly. These are just min/max suggestions.
guardianfighter.com
The thing is: 3% something normally isn't as good as all the bonuses from any of the main main abilities for a GF.
Human is a good tank (3% def) and versatile (more talents = more options), but each ability point give you % in 2 or 3 stat modifiers and that's good even in higher levels.
I am probably going for half-orc or dwarf. I like half-orc because I'm going to be offensive, but Dwarf has the Stand Your Ground and I really don't want to see my character prone too often.
Tier 1 (5 points) - Action Surge is usually best and takes all five.
Tier 2 (10 points) - Armor Specialization, Strength Focus, Distracting Shield are all good choices. With distracting shield, you can keep block up, and spam the right click at will ability for good damage and block gauge regeneration.
Tier 3 (15 points) - Potent Challenge is another strong choice, and takes 3. You also have powerful attack - when coupled with distracting shield you are basically always doing 20% more damage with your at wills.
Tier 4 (20 points) - The only one here that I really seemed to get any use out of was ubiquitous shield, which is another five points.
Let's assume, for the sake of argument, you took the following abilities at their full 5 points:
Tier 1: Action Surge
Tier 2: Distracting Shield
Tier 3: Powerful Attack
Tier 4: Ubiquitous Shield
There's nothing wrong with this setup. You generate AP through blocking, anytime you use your at wills you are doing 20% more damage, and you reduce the damage taken when getting swarmed.
Those 3 points can now be used for: making strength 15% more effective, or increasing your AC/def by 15%, or giving you 3% of your HP as temp hit points whenever you are healed, or 3% crit strike. The crit strike is meh, but everything else is a really powerful choice.
Edit to add: an extra feat point doesn't improve the feat by 1% (as alluded to above), but usually somewhere in the neighborhood of 5%.
guardianfighter.com
Taking an example is the STR bonus talent. If you have STR 20 the 3 talent points will be similar to +1,5 STR points.
But I believe we should not point the heroic tier talents as the bonuses ones, since you will have 3 extra points to place in the end it means you'll be free to use those points at Paragon feats.
15% of 20 STR is +3 Strength, not 1.5. And as you level and increase that stat you'll reap greater benefits from the 15% talent.
Dwarves (Con/Str) are born to be GF's.
Humans (Con) are solid in any class.
Halflings (Dex/Con) are much more effective than they appear.
Tieflings (Int/Con) are solid too, and look super cool.
Half-Orcs (Dex/Str) make the most balanced GF's.
Half-Elves (Con/Wis or Cha) are alright but far from ideal.
All other races are simply sub-par, but at later levels are still viable.
Racial attributes are, in some cases, pretty good. Human bonus feat points are nice and 5% Tiefling dmg bonus is sweet.
Truth. But anybody who is asking this question is asking from a min-max perspective, and is interested in which one is marginally better than the others.
guardianfighter.com
It's not +15% STR, it's +15% STR bonuses and since the bonuses start after STR 10 you'll only have 10 points of STR giving bonuses and 15% of that is 1,5 STR.
Which games have damage so ridiculously high that 2% makes an impact? Even in Maplestory 2% won't matter much.
Oh, that makes sense. Thanks for the heads up, that does change things.
Well, let me tell you about a few experiences where 2% made difference to me:
At Forsaken World at Arena me and a friend got crits at same time against the toughest guy in game and he got under 1% health but didn't die. One moment later he got full healed by the priest and they won the battle.
At the same game the first time we got our party to kill a world boss but we didn't got enough damage to get over his regen anough to kill it in less than an hour so we gave up because it wouldn't worth. The week later we had a little more damage output (less than 2% at all) and killed it.
2% of TOTAL damage is something REALLY impressive to me at an MMO.
Leisses answered you with anecdotal evidence. I'm going to go the math route. I don't typically trust anecdotal evidence - I tend to go with what can be worked out mathematically.
Let's use World of Warcraft as an example - for the sole reason of there being an extreme amount of raw data available out there right now. We're going to get a little hypothetical in some regards, just for the sake of simplifying the argument. I went to worldoflogs.com and pulled the top ten DPS registered for a random 10 man normal raid encounter in the current expansion and came across The Spirit Kings from Mogu'Shan Vaults. If you are not familiar with the fight, it's essentially a single target encounter with a lot of movement.
Let's assume (for the sake of argument) that the top 10 damage done is typical. You have a spread of 136,000 damage per second for lowest done and 163,000 damage per second for highest done. The highest damage dealer did 46,660,093 total damage over 4.73 minutes of activity (4 minutes and 43 seconds).
Let's assume (for the sake of argument) that all 10 people in your raid are doing similar output. Obviously, you have healers and tanks in a real scenario, which complicates this idea, but we're going for a simple to understand idea. So let's assume all 10 people in your raid are doing exactly the same damage output. Let's also, then, assume that the boss you are fighting enrages at 4 minutes and 30 seconds, instantly wiping everybody. You are now 13 seconds short of being able to kill this boss.
Let's now assume after the wipe, everybody got together and discussed what they did, and found a way to squeeze a small amount more of efficiency out of their rotation, netting a gain of 2% damage. Seems insignificant. But let's play it out.
The two magic numbers that we are looking for are:
* 466,600,930 (46,660,093 * 10 - the total damage done by our 10 raiders to kill the boss in 4 minutes and 43 seconds)
* 4 minutes and 30 seconds
Over the course of a fight, we are all able to improve our 46,660,093 total damage done by 2%, which means every single person does 933,201.86 more damage over that 4 minutes and 43 seconds. Over 10 raiders, that is an additional 9,332,018.6 total damage done over 4 minutes and 43 seconds. That's a lot more damage. But that's still over the course of 4 minutes and 43 seconds - so does that additional damage take us over the 13 second threshold?
9,332,018.6 total additional damage done, divided by 283.9 total seconds = 32,870.79 additional damage done, raid wide, every second.
Let's add that to our original damage done. 466,660,093 total original damage done, divided by 283.9 total seconds = 1,643,748.12 original damage done, raid wide, every second.
Our intrepid adventurers are now doing 1,676,618.91 damage, raid wide, every second. They have 269 seconds to kill the boss (again, at 4.5 minutes / 270 seconds we all die). Over 269 seconds, we now do 451,010,486.76 total damage. 466,600,930 was the goal. In this scenario, we still wipe.
Let's review:
* I picked a fight with an extreme amount of damage done (millions), used the top recorded damage dealer and assumed that he was indicative of 10 people's performance, trying to give 2% more of a fair chance to have an impact
* I set a realistic goal for improvement for a raid encounter (13 seconds - given the damage done and the life of the boss, we would have killed him at 278.29 seconds / 4.63 minutes / 4 minutes and 38 seconds - an improvement of 5 seconds with a remaining deficiency of 8 seconds)
* Even taking the enrage time out of things, and assuming we're just trying to get better at killing the boss, 2% damage done by 10 people at an extreme amount of damage over the course of almost 5 minutes... got us a 5 second improvement
* We all have anecdotal evidence of wiping on a boss at 1% or 2%, or somebody getting away in PvP with a fraction of a percent of life left - those extreme outliers are not indicative of standard mathematical models, sorry. In my opinion, coyotedelta has the right of it.
* Those times where you wiped at 1% and 2% but couldn't get close again are less about how 2% more damage would have won the fight, and more about how on that one pull you went above your expected performance and almost defeated a fight that probably requires a little bit more gear for you to be able to comfortably kill.
* Even in your anecdotal evidence, there are things that I could pick apart. In your first example, you talk about how critical strikes almost won the day for you - well placed crits are subject to RNG - so with luck you went above your expected performance and almost won a fight that in most situations you wouldn't anyways. If the luck gods are with you and every single attack crits - hey, congratulations, you're killing something that you normally wouldn't. In your second example, you talked about how just a week of extra gear was enough to get you over the hump... you were less than 2% improvement away from crossing that threshold. That doesn't make 2% more damage more magical than it really is. I'm sorry.
When we say that the differences at character creation don't statistically matter at max level, that's far more accurate of a higher percentage of your experiences at max level than extreme outliers.
guardianfighter.com
I really appreciate your thought out post explaining why my question could be invalid, but I had to stop here. Are you telling me that in this game we'll eventually be able to do 163k damage PER SECOND? My level 1 rogue was hitting 10 on a starter zombie, and you're telling me eventually I'll be doing so much damage my eyes can't keep up with the number of 0s? I understand you chose an insanely high number to show the difference 2% can make, but this isn't Disgaea. 2% makes a big difference only if the number's big enough. What kind of max damage would, say, a rogue or a GWF be pulling off at cap level? Would that 2% make a big enough difference on a boss who has enough hp to withstand it? Or is it going to be variance damage controlled by the random number god?
not that it matters in the big picture ..but it is personally satisfying
But to make a player to choose a race they don't like all for something that'll only happen .1% of the time? I don't know, I think the differences in power are there but it's not game-breakingly bad enough to not choose a race you love. I can understand the plight of someone wanting a halfling or elf guardian, and if there's very little difference in races more power to them for playing a race they love.
in pvp for example everyone has had the experience of beating someone with better gear or stats ...it just that much more satisfying
Maybe in this game it's different but normally 2% of damage or defense are the difference between been able to join in a specific dungeon or not.
But OK, maybe I mislead the goal when I started using my examples. The thing I really should've focus from the beginning is that percentage bonuses are as good at early game as they are at late game.
And I believe that besides the OP (I don't know what it means but it seems it is the creator of thread) said he don't like dwarves he wanted to know the best race to play the class and not the one that maximizes bonus.
Ps.: And sorry for my poooooor english.
If you stopped reading there, I suggest you read the rest of my post, since I agreed with you. I was giving that 2% its biggest bang for its buck, and going with massively out of control numbers (nothing I've seen from Neverwinter suggests anything close to these numbers) to prove a point. And that point is that 2% more damage is insanely insignificant, even when that 2% is given its biggest numerical advantages.
guardianfighter.com