I am neither a Hero of the North nor a Guardian Founder.
Facts
Heroes of the North Founder's Packs have received an upgrade from 750,000 Astral Diamonds to 2,000,000 Astral Diamonds (166% Increase).
Guardian Founder's Packs have received an upgrade from 150,000 Astral Diamonds to 600,000 Astral Diamonds. (300% Increase)
What's Wrong?
If you increase the amount of AD received in one package, the amount of AD received in the other package should increase by the same percentage. Otherwise, you are effectively diminishing the relative purchasing power of one of the Founder's packs, in this case, the Heroes of the North pack.
Hypotheticals
If you are raising the amount of AD received to increase the purchasing power of both packs in-game, why should one pack gain more than the other?
If your wish was to increase the value of the Guardian pack relative to the Hero of the North pack, what is the logic behind this decision? The consensus on these forums is that Guardian packs represent the "best value for money" whereas Hero of the North packs have an inexplicably high "value".
If your wish was to decrease the value of the Hero of the North pack relative to the Guardian pack, what is the logic behind this decision? Your Hero of the North purchasers bought their Founder's packs in good faith, trusting that the value (whether absolute or relative) would be maintained at least until launch. This recent decision puts this trust and faith in serious jeopardy.
Does Not Make Business Sense
It seems to me that your Hero of the North customers are your biggest supporters. Having paid the most to support your company even before your free-to-play game is released, I would think it should be in your best interests to make them as happy as possible, so that they are more inclined to spend in your Zen Store once the game opens. (Nothing opens up wallets like customer satisfaction).
What you're doing now undermines the credibility you have built up to date, and will make current and prospective customers like myself wonder what else might be subject to a disguised downgrade. For one thing, anyone contemplating the purchase of the Hero of the North pack will now know that its relative value has diminished considerably compared to the Guardian pack.
Why not apply the same percentage increase to both packs to show that you value both sets of customers equally?
From what I have read, seen and experienced, you have done an admirable job with this game to date, but your latest decision is truly baffling, and as a prospective buyer of a Founder's pack, leaves a very sour taste in my mouth.
I sincerely hope that someone from Cryptic is willing to make an official comment on this issue.
Nice calculation and true in the context of relative values. To Keep the relative value constant as it as provided from the beginning, the AD should increase in the same manner for HoN as for Guardian Packs. That is fair, despite of the basic idea to Support the game and so on.
Therefore an adition of 300% for HoN would be 2250000 AD. In total HoN should get 3000000 AD compared to the Guardian Pack.
Nice calculation and true in the context of relative values. To Keep the relative value constant as it as provided from the beginning, the AD should increase in the same manner for HoN as for Guardian Packs. That is fair, despite of the basic idea to Support the game and so on.
Therefore an adition of 300% for HoN would be 2250000 AD. In total HoN should get 3000000 AD compared to the Guardian Pack.
Step one: Make packages available to purchase/Some people complain.
Step two: Increase value of all packages but keep the price the same/People still complain.
Step three: ?????/People still complain.
Step four: profit/People complain about you making said profit.
Prediction; most of the people complaining will fall into two categories:
1) Those who weren't going to spend any money anyway.
2) Those who will spend money anyway.
This complaint falls under the theory "when somebody else gets something nice, I'm being punished because I didn't". I've never subscribed to this theory; it tends to disrupt the birthday party, and then somebody's mom has to come pick them up early because the birthday boy got the presents instead of them.
Heh, not complaining (exactly) but more items added to a tiny bagspace is actually kind of annoying, will probably just keep the items at the claim npc guy.
Step one: Make packages available to purchase/Some people complain.
Step two: Increase value of all packages but keep the price the same/People still complain.
Step three: ?????/People still complain.
Step four: profit/People complain about you making said profit.
Step whatever: Increase value of all packages to the SAME EXTEND but keep the prices the same/Nobody should complain.
Step whatever: Make packages available to purchase at LOGICALLY TRACEABLE prices/Nobody should complain, if reasonable (depending on how much you want to spend).
But, I'll also note that the majority of those who spent $200 seem pretty content too.
It doesn't really matter what we think, the marketplace handles this kind of thing well. If the demand for the $200 pack continues to push forward, Cryptic will know they did the right thing. The beauty of business is, it pretty much determines whether something has value or not, in other words, your customers will let you know pretty quickly what they think of it, by either buying it or not buying it.
It's strange to me that even though a previously purchased item actually increased its benefits to its customers, that some people complained about it. Things you purchase in life, aren't guaranteed to keep their value, or rise in benefit in accordance to another offering. In fact, in life, you soon realize that buying something early is often the WRONG thing to do, because as demand subsides, the price of that item will likely decrease.
Caveat emptor.
I don't think pre-order bonuses (And let's be frank, these are pre-order bonuses, semantics aside.) operate on the same level as an actual product. They are more comparable I feel to investments. At any rate, this is something I've covered already, the pre-order packs have no real intrinsic value in and of themselves and are only worth what cryptic/PWE says they are worth (I am of course, speaking purely in terms of practicality. I am aware of the negligible costs to maintaining the server they exist on and the flat number of man hours involved with labor to produce something of zero material cost.)
Step one: Make packages available to purchase/Some people complain.
Step two: Increase value of all packages but keep the price the same/People still complain.
Step three: ?????/People still complain.
Step four: profit/People complain about you making said profit.
This line of thinking I don't think is fair, with around 7 billion people living on planet earth, it's a near mathmatical certainty that you could find someone to complain about any given thing. Doesn't matter what it is. The important question isn't "Are people complaining?" It is instead "Why are they complaining?"
This line of thinking I don't think is fair, with around 7 billion people living on planet earth, it's a near mathmatical certainty that you could find someone to complain about any given thing. Doesn't matter what it is. The important question isn't "Are people complaining?" It is instead "Why are they complaining?"
In business, the superior question is: "Will they still continue to purchase our product?"
A complaint isn't really relevant, if the customer still comes back. It's like the old joke:
There's two ladies in a retirement home. One old lady says, to the other, "Boy the food here is terrible". The other lady nods and replies, "Yeah and such small portions!"
This is particularly true in the gaming industry, where complaints are rampant, but so often, the money rolls in anyway. I believe WOW forums demonstrate this perfectly. Here we have a litany of threads that complain and rage, and yet the game soars and is a billion dollar brand.
In this case, we have a highly pedantic complaint about ratios, based on some marginal assessment of the true value of a product, that was already purchased on a contract that promised LESS than what was actually received.
I've often joked that human nature is like this. Tell someone, you are going to give them a million dollars tomorrow, then show up the next day and say, "sorry all I could come up with is 10,000 dollars" and human nature will react angrily, because rather than see they've just been handed 10K for free, they'll feel entitled to the other $990,000.
I think there's some of that psychology going on here.
None of it matters, what matters is whether we're going to still pull out our wallets to buy Zen and other digital nick nacks when the game launches. I wager, most of us will. If we don't, then Cryptic will respond with more goodies for less money.
That's just how business works.
Those who are upset have only one recourse: Petition for a refund and/or resolve to never spend money on this game again.
But Cryptic's hands are clean here, they promised something, then offered even more than initially promised at the time of purchase.
SHADOW - A secret cabal for those who thirst for wealth and power. Check out SHADOW on YouTube!
0
pearofanguishMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 44
edited March 2013
I had already bought the pack, so i am happy with the change
Ignore me.... 90% of the time I dont care, 10% of the time I am indifferent....
In business, the superior question is: "Will they still continue to purchase our product?"
A complaint isn't really relevant, if the customer still comes back. It's like the old joke:
There's two ladies in a retirement home. One old lady says, to the other, "Boy the food here is terrible". The other lady nods and replies, "Yeah and such small portions!"
This is particularly true in the gaming industry, where complaints are rampant, but so often, the money rolls in anyway. I believe WOW forums demonstrate this perfectly. Here we have a litany of threads that complain and rage, and yet the game soars and is a billion dollar brand.
In this case, we have a highly pedantic complaint about ratios, based on some marginal assessment of the true value of a product, that was already purchased on a contract that promised LESS than what was actually received.
I've often joked that human nature is like this. Tell someone, you are going to give them a million dollars tomorrow, then show up the next day and say, "sorry all I could come up with is 10,000 dollars" and human nature will react angrily, because rather than see they've just been handed 10K for free, they'll feel entitled to the other $990,000.
I think there's some of that psychology going on here.
None of it matters, what matters is whether we're going to still pull out our wallets to buy Zen and other digital nick nacks when the game launches. I wager, most of us will. If we don't, then Cryptic will respond with more goodies for less money.
That's just how business works.
Those who are upset have only one recourse: Petition for a refund and/or resolve to never spend money on this game again.
But Cryptic's hands are clean here, they promised something, then offered even more than initially promised at the time of purchase.
Ahh, Ryger. As time goes by I find myself liking you more and more.
You are correct in a less ethical though more pragmatic sense, but my point was more that "People will complain about anything" isn't really a compelling argument, since common sense dictates that "yes, there probably is someone somewhere who will <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> on just about anything since there are lot of people with their own thought processes and ways of looking at things."
As a side note in regards to the above mathematical facts:
Math can be used to trick people due to the fact that there are multiple ways to show the same value. These different ways can be used to subconsciously each support a differing viewpoint, even though they represent the same thing numerically. The most used examples are percentages and flat numbers. Just something for those reading to consider next time you see a pole that says something like "89% of <Nation> <approves/disapproves> of <leader/law>." Because that could be 89% of any number, and in almost all cases, is not representative of the total nation or group in question.
As to how this applies to the supposed "Facts"? Well:
the price paid for 750,000 ADs in the old 200 dollar pack was 3,750 AD per USD.
The price paid for 150,000 ADs in the old 60 dollar pack was 2,500 AD per USD.
So nice try to give the facts, but you still withheld important parts of the equation because doing so supported your bias, or possibly through personal oversight.v Therefor, your math is flawed. Start over and try again.
Comments
Nice calculation and true in the context of relative values. To Keep the relative value constant as it as provided from the beginning, the AD should increase in the same manner for HoN as for Guardian Packs. That is fair, despite of the basic idea to Support the game and so on.
Therefore an adition of 300% for HoN would be 2250000 AD. In total HoN should get 3000000 AD compared to the Guardian Pack.
My cup is half full for sure
Step one: Make packages available to purchase/Some people complain.
Step two: Increase value of all packages but keep the price the same/People still complain.
Step three: ?????/People still complain.
Step four: profit/People complain about you making said profit.
1) Those who weren't going to spend any money anyway.
2) Those who will spend money anyway.
This complaint falls under the theory "when somebody else gets something nice, I'm being punished because I didn't". I've never subscribed to this theory; it tends to disrupt the birthday party, and then somebody's mom has to come pick them up early because the birthday boy got the presents instead of them.
Step whatever: Increase value of all packages to the SAME EXTEND but keep the prices the same/Nobody should complain.
Step whatever: Make packages available to purchase at LOGICALLY TRACEABLE prices/Nobody should complain, if reasonable (depending on how much you want to spend).
I don't think pre-order bonuses (And let's be frank, these are pre-order bonuses, semantics aside.) operate on the same level as an actual product. They are more comparable I feel to investments. At any rate, this is something I've covered already, the pre-order packs have no real intrinsic value in and of themselves and are only worth what cryptic/PWE says they are worth (I am of course, speaking purely in terms of practicality. I am aware of the negligible costs to maintaining the server they exist on and the flat number of man hours involved with labor to produce something of zero material cost.)
This line of thinking I don't think is fair, with around 7 billion people living on planet earth, it's a near mathmatical certainty that you could find someone to complain about any given thing. Doesn't matter what it is. The important question isn't "Are people complaining?" It is instead "Why are they complaining?"
In business, the superior question is: "Will they still continue to purchase our product?"
A complaint isn't really relevant, if the customer still comes back. It's like the old joke:
There's two ladies in a retirement home. One old lady says, to the other, "Boy the food here is terrible". The other lady nods and replies, "Yeah and such small portions!"
This is particularly true in the gaming industry, where complaints are rampant, but so often, the money rolls in anyway. I believe WOW forums demonstrate this perfectly. Here we have a litany of threads that complain and rage, and yet the game soars and is a billion dollar brand.
In this case, we have a highly pedantic complaint about ratios, based on some marginal assessment of the true value of a product, that was already purchased on a contract that promised LESS than what was actually received.
I've often joked that human nature is like this. Tell someone, you are going to give them a million dollars tomorrow, then show up the next day and say, "sorry all I could come up with is 10,000 dollars" and human nature will react angrily, because rather than see they've just been handed 10K for free, they'll feel entitled to the other $990,000.
I think there's some of that psychology going on here.
None of it matters, what matters is whether we're going to still pull out our wallets to buy Zen and other digital nick nacks when the game launches. I wager, most of us will. If we don't, then Cryptic will respond with more goodies for less money.
That's just how business works.
Those who are upset have only one recourse: Petition for a refund and/or resolve to never spend money on this game again.
But Cryptic's hands are clean here, they promised something, then offered even more than initially promised at the time of purchase.
Check out SHADOW on YouTube!
Welcome to Cryptic!
Neverwinter Thieves Guild
Ahh, Ryger. As time goes by I find myself liking you more and more.
You are correct in a less ethical though more pragmatic sense, but my point was more that "People will complain about anything" isn't really a compelling argument, since common sense dictates that "yes, there probably is someone somewhere who will <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> on just about anything since there are lot of people with their own thought processes and ways of looking at things."
As a side note in regards to the above mathematical facts:
Math can be used to trick people due to the fact that there are multiple ways to show the same value. These different ways can be used to subconsciously each support a differing viewpoint, even though they represent the same thing numerically. The most used examples are percentages and flat numbers. Just something for those reading to consider next time you see a pole that says something like "89% of <Nation> <approves/disapproves> of <leader/law>." Because that could be 89% of any number, and in almost all cases, is not representative of the total nation or group in question.
As to how this applies to the supposed "Facts"? Well:
the price paid for 750,000 ADs in the old 200 dollar pack was 3,750 AD per USD.
The price paid for 150,000 ADs in the old 60 dollar pack was 2,500 AD per USD.
So nice try to give the facts, but you still withheld important parts of the equation because doing so supported your bias, or possibly through personal oversight.v Therefor, your math is flawed. Start over and try again.