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Chat Feature changes for Neverwinter?
gilly44
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 2 Arc User
Hi everyone, I haven't posted much since the changing of the forums.
I asked this before, but search features just don't locate things well for me.
So I could not locate anything on Neverwinter Chat features.
My concern is strictly from immersion/roleplay reasons.
In Star Trek Online, as well as Champions online, we are "tagged" with an @forums name.
Example would be like Gilly@gilly44.
Now if I want to be a halfling named Gilly, I just want to be Identified by that, and not a @ symbol followed by a forums name.
This looks bad, and it ruins any attempt at roleplaying.
D&D and Neverwinter Nights are heavily embedded in Roleplay.
I am hoping another alternative can be arrived at.
How about this;
In chat we see our character name, or character name and surname.
This would allow immersion and roleplay, and if the @gilly44 is necessary, then perhaps it could be shown on inspection of the characters Bio only.
My hopes is that something like this has already been done, or is in the works.
Sorry if I am posting a redundant post and or topic, but I cannot seem to get the search of the forums working at all. Every name or word always results in 0.
I asked this before, but search features just don't locate things well for me.
So I could not locate anything on Neverwinter Chat features.
My concern is strictly from immersion/roleplay reasons.
In Star Trek Online, as well as Champions online, we are "tagged" with an @forums name.
Example would be like Gilly@gilly44.
Now if I want to be a halfling named Gilly, I just want to be Identified by that, and not a @ symbol followed by a forums name.
This looks bad, and it ruins any attempt at roleplaying.
D&D and Neverwinter Nights are heavily embedded in Roleplay.
I am hoping another alternative can be arrived at.
How about this;
In chat we see our character name, or character name and surname.
This would allow immersion and roleplay, and if the @gilly44 is necessary, then perhaps it could be shown on inspection of the characters Bio only.
My hopes is that something like this has already been done, or is in the works.
Sorry if I am posting a redundant post and or topic, but I cannot seem to get the search of the forums working at all. Every name or word always results in 0.
Post edited by gilly44 on
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This discussion has been closed.
Comments
One possible option could be to mask the @<account_name> in the chat display. When a name is moused over it would show the entire name. Also for whispering purposes if you select or right click the name to whisper then it would use the full name. If you knew the full name you could also type it in to whisper them (eg: /tell Gilly@gilly44 blah blah blah).
It still doesn't exactly solve how to differentiate when two people named Gilly chat in the same window. Maybe they could have different colored text to display their names, but I have a feeling that is a logic nightmare. Think about it there are 1400 Drizz't online. Do they show Drizz't in 1400 different colors or Drizz't@imatool and Drizz't@imatooltoo and Drizz't@srslybraindead.
Something has to be better than the current default in STO because it is seriously hideous. I've been thinking about this since I started playing STO a few months ago.
You already can hide the @ handles in STO and CO. Right click the chat window, navigate to the options tab then uncheck "show account names." When a name is right-clicked in chat, they show the full name in a context tool-tip. These features have been in STO since its release. I am not sure if CO was released this way but those features also exist there, at least the last time I played CO.
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I still propose that this be done at naming. You enter "Gilly" you get a "Gilly Furtoes exists, you must create a Surname that is different from Gilly Furtoes."
And, I still think, if the @gilly44 is "necessary" then, please make this only visible in the bio of the character for mailing purposes.
The bottom line is that for immersion appearance is everything, and "first appearances" can make or break the game to a first time customer.
If they see the @ sign and they are hardcore RP, they may simply walk away as we are dealing with a f2p environment, and that isn't what is wanted, you need to have the instant attraction available to make people want to monetize for points, or, buy points, ( either way Perfect Worlds makes money )
The Naming structures in other games usually only allows one name type, which I sort of prefer, saves less confusion.
But if Cryptic can work around to make this appealing visually then that would be fine.
When you sit at a tabletop Role-playing with friends, is it immersion breaking to look at them or hear them speak, in thier own voice instead of that of thier character?
A global handle is an imperative, and allows players to identify griefers no matter what alts they hop onto, and gives everyone in the game the same amount of defense a griefer deserves; None. This includes RP griefers who ruin your day.
If it's immersion breaking to you, you can turn off the @handles if you wish, but I wish to always see them, and can easily ignore them when I role-play, which is every day.
I hope your selfish suggestion is wisely deemed selfish by the devs.
Hey, Rune! Welcome to the dark side. I wonder how many GLOBErs will make it to Neverwinter?
ON TOPIC:
I don't think I want @Handles floating above anybody's avatar's head, but I definitely need to see it when I'm interacting with players. I loves me some immersion, but I need some identifier for the user at the keyboard, too. I don't think the roleplaying will ever have a sense of community if it's difficult for players to identify each other on a meta level first.
Though we don't know if they have @handles in this game, btw.
Hey, buddy. I've been here a while actually, just not as prolific a Poster here as I am on the Champions Boards and at the SAS site. Since NW will be F2P, I expect quite a few to at least give it a whirl. Not much barrier to entry, after all.
I expect chat will be exactly as it is in STO and CO now, in NW. Nothing over our avatars but our Names, personally picked Titles and Guild names. @handle shown only in character Info screen and optionally in the Chat box.
We do know, because the game uses the Cryptic 2.0 Engine, and the same shared chat server technology that all the Cryptic 2.0 engines use. It's planned and intended technology, and allows cross game chat both through PMs and player created channels.
Cryptic would essentially be changing their minds and removing Chat functionality to not use @handles in the game.
I hate unique first names, it isn't realistic either... Only one player gets the name "John"? why? it's a common name. Trust me, the number of times I've seen people with the same name in Champions and STO is super rare. I don't think I've ever personally seen it in STO in fact.
More common in Champions, but that is a super hero game, so most players choose heroic type names, a much smaller statistical subset of choices for names than science fiction or fantasy convention.
I have two players each with a different "Omniboy" hero in my guild. Worked out great.. One comes from some alternate dimension anyway. Always a fun option to have two people role-play the classic "Who gets to keep the name" brawl seen in Comics. :-)
It is the same engine but "modified" version. How much modified, what for?, we don't know yet. So unless there is an official word on it (which I suspect would come sooner than launch), I would think that @handles are only a speculation.
A better solution then would then be unique "first and second" name. (i.e. John Wayne and John Doe should be able to exists but not two John Doe).
[Also I am not against the locked names even, for the characters based on the theme but I can see many players hating that.]
The only problem I see with this would to the role-players who want to share a last name with their family or friends. For instance, a husband and wife who play on two separate accounts may want to share a last name on one or more of their characters.
My only dislike about STO's naming system is how your "over-head" name is a Nickname and not your actual name. If you make your character with the first name as their nick name, then this isn't an issue. I'd like to be able to have the ability to choose whether or not I want to be seen in game as my character's Nickname or my character's Proper Name. I don't like being restricted to a nickname as the "main" name that is seen both in chat and above one's avatar.
Some may say, well just put your first name as your Nickname. Well, this is all fine and dandy, however that then limits a character to not having a Nickname then. I'd just like some better naming and display options than what is found in STO - even though I really to like the great detail we can go into with naming and detailing our characters in STO.
Basically, I'd just like STO's naming system with the added feature to be able to either display our Nickname or our Character's first and last name above our Avatars. This should also be able to be reflected in chat too.
For instance, if I name my character "Zeryn Nyrez Zebular" with "Nyrez" as my nickname, I'd like the option to have "Zeryn Zebular" be displayed over my character's head to other players or choose my Nickname as my display name.
For chat, this would work like this:
--Full name display: "Zeryn Zebular says: Hello everyone."
--Full name display with @handle turned on: "Zeryn Zebular@zebular says: Hello everyone."
--When right clicked, it would show in the context tool-tip: "Zeryn 'Nyrez' Zebular@zebular"
Then, also have the option to have it how it is in STO:
--Nick display: "Nyrez says: Hello everyone."
--Nick display with @handle turned on: "Nyrez@zebular says: Hello everyone."
--When right clicked, it would show in the context tool-tip: "Zeryn 'Nyrez' Zebular@zebular"
If you're curious about the naming system used in STO, give the game a go, it is Free to Play.
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If they are not going to allow voices, at least people should be able to read what the npc comments while running. Bubbles are convenient and easy to read with good contrast and arrow pointing who is saying what.
I completely agree. It would be nice if something like this (or something in that detail) makes its way to end product. (Or other variations which makes you name your chars thoughtfully).
It is true, but official statement is 'modified' form of engine used by cryptic. Even if @handles are used as identifiers, they can probably also be masked (though it has to be present at backend to know if the alt belongs to a trustworthy person I can group with). So a few changes to present system may be there.
You just have to realize that you're reaching here, right? Keep your hope alive I suppose, but I'll bet you dollars to donuts it'll be like in STO at best, Champions Online at worst.
I understand that some people find these immersion breaking, however, as has already been pointed out in this thread, you can disable them.
Having @handles in our games really helps people to be able to play the character they want to play. You're not going to see people running around with the name, "Soulbadger1569" in Neverwinter, because someone who wants to be "Souldbadger" will be able to use that as their character name.
I'm not too sure about the rest of you, but if "Soulbadger" becomes some really popular name for some reason, I'd rather not see a bunch of "Soulbadger<randomnumbers>" or "Xa_Soulbadger_aX" running around in game.
For me, that breaks immersion a little more than an @ handle, which in all honesty can be easily ignored for RP purposes, or even turned off.
Thanks,
Stormshade
Now that we have an official word, I think its a great idea to use @handles for the game. Apart from griever-identifier as discussed above, it will also make CO and STO players who try out NW feel comfortable with similar setup.
Though I would have liked some variations which forces players to name the chars thoughtfully (like ones suggested by zebular), but still its a system which is tested and has worked so it is perhaps better.
I really like this suggestion. In "someday-world" it would be great if this sort of display customization becomes an option.
this is disappointing news.
I would really like it if the @handles were hidden, unless you examined the person and looked at the Bio.
If it was in the bio it would maintain the same "needs" it currently provides, without cluttering chat unnecessarily with @'s and names that are weird.
While you say you don't want to see Soulbadger1234 versions as a players name, instead we have names like Soulbadger@Soulbadger1234, to me that's a double-whammy.
And, considering our first step into Neverwinter will be Champions and Star Trek fan base, most of our previous account names will be like Soulbadger@superman15 or Soulbadger@dataloreb4 or something like this.
I am fine with the reasoning behind them I just wish, that they would be hidden from sight.
By the way, no matter whether you have the @handles hidden or displayed, they are not shown above a player's avatar in game. This only appears in Chat (if enabled) as well as in context-tool tips and player inspection.
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First off, I never once said anything about names floating over your head So I don't know why you are trying to pin that on me.
But here goes my explanation..
Immersion is a two way street. If I know this feature is on for other people even if I have it turned off, it breaks the flow of chat. It no longer becomes roleplay, and ends up being just another MMO.
Imagine that you are a heavy roleplayer, and you download Neverwinter.
Now there is no documentation at all saying we have an off switch for this.
So your first impression may as well be your last. You see the @handles and so on and decide its not the game for you.
So for one thats a strike against the feature right there.
So next thing is this:
Imagine I am roleplaying, and some guy begins Roleplaying however he isnt using my name he is saying " Sure Gilly44, we could go kill orcs.." or whatever.
Nothing to stop people from using your forum handle in chat.
I have played Champions Online, for several months, and Star Trek Online, since it has gone f2p. I never knew about turning off the @handles.
I really have not enjoyed playing the game with other people because of the chat.
I like STO because the solo quests are interesting, but the chat really is disappointing.
It does matter if others can see them instantly, but I have no problem if these were visible in the bio and tagged on mail and so on for things that doesn't matter, but in chat its ugly. and I have friends where a feature like this is a deal breaker.
I do not need to imagine, for I am a heavy role-player and have been playing PnP D&D for 20 years, most of which I have been the DM of an on-going Forgotten Realms Campaign that has endured for at least 14 years now. I forget when I actually started DMing.
The first thing I did, after not seeing a toggle in the game options screen, when I seen the @handles in Champions Online was to ask, "how do I hide the @handles?" I do not feel that a heavy role-player would be so fickle as to dismiss any game over a minute feature without first informing themself about said feature, at least not any role-player that I know personally is not. All the PnP Role-players that I know want to learn and engage, not dwell in ignorance.
As a Role-player, I read, I learn, and I fiddle with everything so that I can inform myself of every thing, as well as help others trying to do the same. If I cannot find an answer on my own, I ask someone for information, I do not simply dismiss everything related to the thing that I am unable to learn.
Your reasoning here is borderline calling Heavy Role-players ignorant and unwilling to learn, which is far from the case in my years of experience with both Heavy Role-players and new players alike. Even the LARPers try to learn everything they can.
So, what you're saying is that while I am sitting at a table playing PnP D&D, my immersion is broken because everyone at the table knows my real name as well as my character's name? This is the same thing in in-game Chat.
Again, I am sorry but I just fail to understand the breaking of immersion you are trying to convey here. Immersion is not a two-way street, in my opinion. To me, immersion is one's perception and ability to understand and translate everything at hand into a role-playing experience.
I would think that a heavy-role player, like myself and those I personally know, would be more likely to see the usage of their @handle as their character's name, for it is our imagination that ultimately defines immersion, while a casual player who doesn't play D&D (or other table-top games) much or at all might not make such a connection.
In my opinion, what is immersion breaking is someone who cannot translate any given thing into a role-playing experience. Basically, with your analogies, you'd be saying that since a player sitting across the table from me knows my real name, they would be likely to get up and leave the gaming session. To me, it is that person who would be breaking my immersion, not the fact that they know my real name.
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Not going to arguments, but;
this is a good argument and gives us as incentive to create better Role-Playing guides. We will put a separate section altogether on 'how to turn off the handles' in the role-playing guide for Neverwinter.That should do the trick I think :-)
I mean, I like it, because I sometimes look for long periods of time in DDO for a name that hasn't been taken already, and it can be frustrating.
A few names will be blocked, like names of important npcs etc., but otherwise you have complete freedom to name your character as in real life. So if you have a tiefling, you can name it hope. And many other tieflings will have same name. When I sent you a private message, @aescleal would define your account. So basically it means Hope character which belongs to "aescleal". aescleal being your hidden identifier having nothing to do with name. In real life, it simulates an address or bar code on each character.
Drizzt would most probably be blocked. Also famous copyrighted names or obscene names may be deleted if they are not in accordance to the naming policy. You will probably see a flood of variations on Drizzt names like Drezzt, Drizt, Driztt, Aldrizzt etc., but soon these kind of names disappear as in general these names are considered shallow.
In Ultima Online, I was known as "Terraseer" for almost my entire 10 years playing that game and ended up having one "Terraseer" character on every Shard on every one of my 26 accounts. My main Counselor character, back when the Counselor Program was in full swing, was named "Counselor Lord Magister" on the Oceania Server. I also doubt I'd be able to get away, for very long, with a character named "Magister" or "Magistress" simply because of the NPC conflict that it would bring. Some-time after the bitter end of the Counselor program, the word "seer" became a no-no for use in names and titles, so my characters named "Terraseer" were grand-fathered in and became one of the few truly unique names in Ultima Online, a game where names were not unique.
I even went as far as to get written authorization to continue with that name from EA and they said that since I had been using that name for so very long, that if ever I got a GM telling me to change, that I should send them that letter and inform them that I have been "authorized" to continue using that name on existing characters.
In DDO, I do not have any characters named after existing NPCs in any of the Campaign Settings. I do this not because I personally find it to be silly but because I know others would find it silly and annoying as well as it may step on some copyright issues. In non-D&D games, I fully understand the drive to name characters after your favorite NPC. I do not however find it enjoyable to do such in D&D environments because of the issues I know doing such causes. I know that I would not allow any of my players to name their character the same name as any existing major NPCs, unless they could come up with a really good and thought-provoking biography that explains how they got to be known by that name or role-played the process of assuming such a name through our gaming sessions.
As a DM, I can begin to imagine scenarios where some character might start to take on the name of "Elminster" - seeing how Elminster can hear his own name however, along with the 9 words spoken before and after, I doubt he would tolerate a hostile impostor for very long, especially in his current mental state. Other major NPCs would be a different story.
Good idea Gillrmn, I do believe a "how to disable @handles in chat" would be a good thing for a game mechanics section in the Wikia, indeed!
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(and if any devs or community managers are reading this, the bullet points are not working again in forum post previews, but do in actual postings. )
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]