muzrub333Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited September 2012
I have always preferred to wield 2 handed weapons. Great Axe, 2h Sword, Maul with a full plate wearing type warrior. A nasty individual, but still with a bit of honor. Think Sandor Clegane.
I have always preferred to wield 2 handed weapons. Great Axe, 2h Sword, Maul with a full plate wearing type warrior. A nasty individual, but still with a bit of honor. Think Sandor Clegane.
Sandor is... Interesting. Do you see him as more of a Defender ("Tank") or Striker ("DPS")?
In GoT he is effectively both, but a middle-road doesn't work so well in 4e. Normally you need to pick a primary focus, then a secondary. So Defender/Striker or Striker/Defender.
Sandor is... Interesting. Do you see him as more of a Defender ("Tank") or Striker ("DPS")?
In GoT he is effectively both, but a middle-road doesn't work so well in 4e. Normally you need to pick a primary focus, then a secondary. So Defender/Striker or Striker/Defender.
I guess it is more a personality thing. I like his character very much. How he would translate to this game, not sure. See, I'm still wrapping my brain around a few things in 4e. To me Sandor is simply a Melee character, striker/defender are new to my D & D lexicon, and seem limiting, (although perhaps they are not).
If I had to narrow it down as you've pointed out, I'd say my play style is a toss up between Striker/Defender & Defender/Striker. Hahah yeah I know...Okay Defender/Striker. Heavy Hitting, and able to take alot of abuse, but more worried about slaughtering his foes without mercy, than being the primary defender. (I prefer a plate wearer whose melee is augmented with arcane/necromantic skills)(e.g. Shadow Knight in EQ)
To put it into an MMO perspective, raiding I prefer to off tank/secondary tank. I'll pick up aggro if a main tank needs my help, but only if. I'll also keep the secondary targets occupied if CC falls behind. In a basic 5-6 person group, I prefer to pull and tank, keeping the mob on me at all times, and building up aggro, keeping it with DoT's etc. Rarely do I have 2 "tanks" in a single group, when I do however, I like to swing pulls/tanking, and mix it up a bit. Can be alot of fun, especially if you can chain pull an area. Then of course there is AoE tanking...
Now how that will all transfer over to Neverwinter is anyone's guess; can I actually achieve something remotely like this with in the limitations of the ruleset? We'll see.
I'm just excited to get the next juicy tidbit of info, and learn the ins and outs of 4e. I actually was bad, and spent too much money on amazon last night...stupid package deals.
If I had to narrow it down as you've pointed out, I'd say my play style is a toss up between Striker/Defender & Defender/Striker. Hahah yeah I know...Okay Defender/Striker. Heavy Hitting, and able to take alot of abuse, but more worried about slaughtering his foes without mercy, than being the primary defender. (I prefer a plate wearer whose melee is augmented with arcane/necromantic skills)(e.g. Shadow Knight in EQ)
...
Lorewise in 4e, defender is a bit different than ability to take damage. It is more like - endure when enemy attacks and bear it out and use the enemy's momentum against him.
I will give examples to the playstyle of each class and how they deal with enemy.
Defender:
When enemy attacks with large club, he raises shield and the shield and when the club bounces back, uses that small window to kill.
When enemy is hitting with sword, uses his two handed weapon to put the enemy in dead lock and then uses strength to push back the sword and hit the enemy in chest.
When mage is throwing fireball, shields his eyes to protect them and then endures the burning metal armor till he drives the sword in mage's heart(mage recovering after casting the spell).
- There is no concept of dps involved. It is closer to the counter attack like class (but different as its damaging mode gets on as soon as enemy is not attacking them).
Striker:
When enemy attacks with large club, uses acrobatics to stand on club and stab the enemy in eyes.
When enemy is hitting with sword, dodges the blow to get to the blind spot of enemy to stab.
When mage is throwing fireball, runs away disappearing from sight quickly and hits the mage dodging the fire.
Controller:
When enemy attacks with large club, grabs his neck with a spell and uses other hand to stab him.
When enemy is hitting with sword, uses web to entangle him and stop his strike.
When mage is throwing fireball, makes the wizard forget the spell he was casting.
~~~~
I don't take credit for these explanations because our DM describes them this way to us. I do endorse them as I find them very accurate.
What I mean to say is it is not DPS dependent. Any class has more dps than striker in certain situations(depending on class).
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iamtruthseekerMember, Moonstars, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Updated 8/29/2012:All D&D Game Rules will be this color, while Gameplay Control and UI Information will be this color.
All players create a race and class with six different attributes: Strength, Constitution, Dexterity, Intelligence, Wisdom and Charisma. One does "mission appropriate" and "class appropriate" things that give the character experience points (or XP) that eventually give "levels." After a certain number of levels (unspecified for thie MMO game but often the ones divisible by four in the tabletop game,) the player can choose to raise an attribute by one point for two attributes (this also may change for the MMO game.)
Unlike other tabletop D&D editions, 4th edition balances the characters by assigning roles similar to what is found in other online MMO games. (This Neverwinter Online game is the first MMO attmpting to use 4th edition in an actual online game.) Instead of the "MMO Triangle" however, there are four "roles" assigned in the "tabletop" game. Those roles are as follows:
Controller--Controllers focus on affecting multiple targets at once, either damaging or debuffing them, or altering the battlefield's terrain.
Defender--Defenders focus on blocking attacking enemies and focusing their attacks on themselves.
Leader--Leaders are focused on buffing and healing allies.
Striker--Strikers are focused on mobility, dealing heavy damage to single targets and avoiding attacks.
So, a fighter would be a defender role, a rogue a striker role and a wizard a controller roll.
Lorewise in 4e, defender is a bit different than ability to take damage. It is more like - endure when enemy attacks and bear it out and use the enemy's momentum against him.
I will give examples to the playstyle of each class and how they deal with enemy.
Defender:
When enemy attacks with large club, he raises shield and the shield and when the club bounces back, uses that small window to kill.
When enemy is hitting with sword, uses his two handed weapon to put the enemy in dead lock and then uses strength to push back the sword and hit the enemy in chest.
When mage is throwing fireball, shields his eyes to protect them and then endures the burning metal armor till he drives the sword in mage's heart(mage recovering after casting the spell).
- There is no concept of dps involved. It is closer to the counter attack like class (but different as its damaging mode gets on as soon as enemy is not attacking them).
Striker:
When enemy attacks with large club, uses acrobatics to stand on club and stab the enemy in eyes.
When enemy is hitting with sword, dodges the blow to get to the blind spot of enemy to stab.
When mage is throwing fireball, runs away disappearing from sight quickly and hits the mage dodging the fire.
Controller:
When enemy attacks with large club, grabs his neck with a spell and uses other hand to stab him.
When enemy is hitting with sword, uses web to entangle him and stop his strike.
When mage is throwing fireball, makes the wizard forget the spell he was casting.
~~~~
I don't take credit for these explanations because our DM describes them this way to us. I do endorse them as I find them very accurate.
What I mean to say is it is not DPS dependent. Any class has more dps than striker in certain situations(depending on class).
I guess it is more a personality thing. I like his character very much. How he would translate to this game, not sure. See, I'm still wrapping my brain around a few things in 4e. To me Sandor is simply a Melee character, striker/defender are new to my D & D lexicon, and seem limiting, (although perhaps they are not).
If I had to narrow it down as you've pointed out, I'd say my play style is a toss up between Striker/Defender & Defender/Striker. Hahah yeah I know...Okay Defender/Striker. Heavy Hitting, and able to take alot of abuse, but more worried about slaughtering his foes without mercy, than being the primary defender. (I prefer a plate wearer whose melee is augmented with arcane/necromantic skills)(e.g. Shadow Knight in EQ)
To put it into an MMO perspective, raiding I prefer to off tank/secondary tank. I'll pick up aggro if a main tank needs my help, but only if. I'll also keep the secondary targets occupied if CC falls behind. In a basic 5-6 person group, I prefer to pull and tank, keeping the mob on me at all times, and building up aggro, keeping it with DoT's etc. Rarely do I have 2 "tanks" in a single group, when I do however, I like to swing pulls/tanking, and mix it up a bit. Can be alot of fun, especially if you can chain pull an area. Then of course there is AoE tanking...
Now how that will all transfer over to Neverwinter is anyone's guess; can I actually achieve something remotely like this with in the limitations of the ruleset? We'll see.
I'm just excited to get the next juicy tidbit of info, and learn the ins and outs of 4e. I actually was bad, and spent too much money on amazon last night...stupid package deals.
I guess it is more a personality thing. I like his character very much. How he would translate to this game, not sure. See, I'm still wrapping my brain around a few things in 4e. To me Sandor is simply a Melee character, striker/defender are new to my D & D lexicon, and seem limiting, (although perhaps they are not).
...snip...
I'm just excited to get the next juicy tidbit of info, and learn the ins and outs of 4e. I actually was bad, and spent too much money on amazon last night...stupid package deals.
So given the info shared and some time to think... Are you still leaning towards a THF human Defender in plate? TBH plate isn't really that necessary for a fighter in 4e, but it can be done.
Given you haven't played 4e before and are specifically after a Plate wearing, human THF blade fighter... I'd suggest The Knight is going to be close to a dead perfect Sandor for you. Grab a Fullblade and some Plate man!
Otherwise a Battlerager Vigor or Fighter Weapon Talent Fighter with a Fullblade focus and spending a feat on Plate Proficiency will suit you quite well, although it's a harder build to grok for someone new to 4e.
Are you up for playing a Dwarf? It's clearly superior according to extensive charop analysis... But I wouldn't listen to them too much if I were you There's plenty of races that do an excellent job as a Fighter and Human is one of them.
katalystikMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited September 2012
The last time I sat down to DnD was 3e so I'm clearly outdated on 4e. I'm wondering if someone can point me towards a combination I could look into more specifically. I typically play anything that is tanky as hell. Absorbing hits is first and foremost what I look for. I've noticed mentions of "Defender" in some of the stuff posted around this forum. But if someone could give me a quick run down on the kind of terms (like Defender) I should be looking for in 4e to make that kind of character? (similar to the above post) There is so much stuff to sift through in 4e when not actually going to be playing it on PnP, that I'd be nice to have a map. lol
katalystikMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited September 2012
Good stuff, thank you. Seems 4e is more about making you the easier target via punishment of not attacking you. Interesting concept. Heard in a few videos the marks being thrown around so now I can start to understand how that might work inside NWO.
Sort of. It's about putting your enemy in a catch-22 situation.
They can respect your mark/aura/whatever and attack you. Of course, you have an ocean of HP, massive healing, and a mountain of AC... And you are no slouch at hurting them right back.
Or they can ignore your mark/aura/whatever and grant you free attacks against them. Which hurts. A lot. Because you typically get bonuses to attack and damage and add conditions when they do that.
katalystikMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited September 2012
I've heard mention in some vids (namely the E3 Pokket interview) about "Guardian Fighters" having to manage aggro. You guys think this will work like a typical MMO mechanic? Didn't see anything about it in the FAQ's.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
0
iamtruthseekerMember, Moonstars, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I've heard mention in some vids (namely the E3 Pokket interview) about "Guardian Fighters" having to manage aggro. You guys think this will work like a typical MMO mechanic? Didn't see anything about it in the FAQ's.
Yeah, we don't have anything beyond demo really so I can't pin anything down via "managing aggro" in an MMO perspective. What I can say is the PnP game does use the marking method to "manage aggro" and it's LIKELY the Guardian Defender will use some form of 4e inspired method to similarly do this. Once we have people focus on the fighter and have a dev/reporter/player go into those features Cryptic confirms when asked or commented on, I'll be glad to put that "aggro management" in the Gameplay section somewhere. Most likely under Defender.
Er... Everyone realizes there's an excellent chance they called it that because there's also a Striker Fighter in the Essentials line... Right? It may not be the actual build's actual name. Or it might be. Just don't bet too many pp on it either way.
Edit: Duh. Tiredness kicking in. The Guardian Fighter is a standard core 4e build. Off to rest now folks!
Er... Everyone realizes there's an excellent chance they called it that because there's also a Striker Fighter in the Essentials line... Right? It may not be the actual build's actual name. Or it might be. Just don't bet too many pp on it either way.
After my previous question in this thread, nope, would have had no idea. lol
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
0
iamtruthseekerMember, Moonstars, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
After my previous question in this thread, nope, would have had no idea. lol
I'm not sure 'cause it was said in one video somewhere out of many, but Andy or Craig might have said that the [class/build mentioned in that video] was based on the D&D build of the game or something to those words.
But I most certainly could be wrong on this, and this was pre-Foundry release videos if anybody wants to play video archeologist.
I'm not sure 'cause it was said in one video somewhere out of many, but Andy or Craig might have said that the [class/build mentioned in that video] was based on the D&D build of the game or something to those words.
But I most certainly could be wrong on this, and this was pre-Foundry release videos if anybody wants to play video archeologist.
Yeah Defender Fighter? No such thing! Defender is a class. Guardian Fighter? Yeah, it's teh awesome as a Defender.
Comments
Sandor is... Interesting. Do you see him as more of a Defender ("Tank") or Striker ("DPS")?
In GoT he is effectively both, but a middle-road doesn't work so well in 4e. Normally you need to pick a primary focus, then a secondary. So Defender/Striker or Striker/Defender.
I guess it is more a personality thing. I like his character very much. How he would translate to this game, not sure. See, I'm still wrapping my brain around a few things in 4e. To me Sandor is simply a Melee character, striker/defender are new to my D & D lexicon, and seem limiting, (although perhaps they are not).
If I had to narrow it down as you've pointed out, I'd say my play style is a toss up between Striker/Defender & Defender/Striker. Hahah yeah I know...Okay Defender/Striker. Heavy Hitting, and able to take alot of abuse, but more worried about slaughtering his foes without mercy, than being the primary defender. (I prefer a plate wearer whose melee is augmented with arcane/necromantic skills)(e.g. Shadow Knight in EQ)
To put it into an MMO perspective, raiding I prefer to off tank/secondary tank. I'll pick up aggro if a main tank needs my help, but only if. I'll also keep the secondary targets occupied if CC falls behind. In a basic 5-6 person group, I prefer to pull and tank, keeping the mob on me at all times, and building up aggro, keeping it with DoT's etc. Rarely do I have 2 "tanks" in a single group, when I do however, I like to swing pulls/tanking, and mix it up a bit. Can be alot of fun, especially if you can chain pull an area. Then of course there is AoE tanking...
Now how that will all transfer over to Neverwinter is anyone's guess; can I actually achieve something remotely like this with in the limitations of the ruleset? We'll see.
I'm just excited to get the next juicy tidbit of info, and learn the ins and outs of 4e. I actually was bad, and spent too much money on amazon last night...stupid package deals.
Lorewise in 4e, defender is a bit different than ability to take damage. It is more like - endure when enemy attacks and bear it out and use the enemy's momentum against him.
I will give examples to the playstyle of each class and how they deal with enemy.
Defender:
When enemy attacks with large club, he raises shield and the shield and when the club bounces back, uses that small window to kill.
When enemy is hitting with sword, uses his two handed weapon to put the enemy in dead lock and then uses strength to push back the sword and hit the enemy in chest.
When mage is throwing fireball, shields his eyes to protect them and then endures the burning metal armor till he drives the sword in mage's heart(mage recovering after casting the spell).
- There is no concept of dps involved. It is closer to the counter attack like class (but different as its damaging mode gets on as soon as enemy is not attacking them).
Striker:
When enemy attacks with large club, uses acrobatics to stand on club and stab the enemy in eyes.
When enemy is hitting with sword, dodges the blow to get to the blind spot of enemy to stab.
When mage is throwing fireball, runs away disappearing from sight quickly and hits the mage dodging the fire.
Controller:
When enemy attacks with large club, grabs his neck with a spell and uses other hand to stab him.
When enemy is hitting with sword, uses web to entangle him and stop his strike.
When mage is throwing fireball, makes the wizard forget the spell he was casting.
~~~~
I don't take credit for these explanations because our DM describes them this way to us. I do endorse them as I find them very accurate.
What I mean to say is it is not DPS dependent. Any class has more dps than striker in certain situations(depending on class).
So given the info shared and some time to think... Are you still leaning towards a THF human Defender in plate? TBH plate isn't really that necessary for a fighter in 4e, but it can be done.
Given you haven't played 4e before and are specifically after a Plate wearing, human THF blade fighter... I'd suggest The Knight is going to be close to a dead perfect Sandor for you. Grab a Fullblade and some Plate man!
Otherwise a Battlerager Vigor or Fighter Weapon Talent Fighter with a Fullblade focus and spending a feat on Plate Proficiency will suit you quite well, although it's a harder build to grok for someone new to 4e.
Are you up for playing a Dwarf? It's clearly superior according to extensive charop analysis... But I wouldn't listen to them too much if I were you
You might find The Fighter's Handbook useful...
First up! Read the FAQ!
Then you are ready for your real homework...
Defenders
The Art of Defending
4e, Defenders and the MMO mentality
Strikers
The Art of Striking
Axioms of Striker Construction
Leaders
The Art of Leading
Know Your Role: Leader
Controllers
Controlling 101
If you specifically like fighters you might want to refer to the post I made right above your own
They can respect your mark/aura/whatever and attack you. Of course, you have an ocean of HP, massive healing, and a mountain of AC... And you are no slouch at hurting them right back.
Or they can ignore your mark/aura/whatever and grant you free attacks against them. Which hurts. A lot. Because you typically get bonuses to attack and damage and add conditions when they do that.
Yeah, we don't have anything beyond demo really so I can't pin anything down via "managing aggro" in an MMO perspective. What I can say is the PnP game does use the marking method to "manage aggro" and it's LIKELY the Guardian Defender will use some form of 4e inspired method to similarly do this. Once we have people focus on the fighter and have a dev/reporter/player go into those features Cryptic confirms when asked or commented on, I'll be glad to put that "aggro management" in the Gameplay section somewhere. Most likely under Defender.
Edit: Duh. Tiredness kicking in. The Guardian Fighter is a standard core 4e build. Off to rest now folks!
After my previous question in this thread, nope, would have had no idea. lol
I'm not sure 'cause it was said in one video somewhere out of many, but Andy or Craig might have said that the [class/build mentioned in that video] was based on the D&D build of the game or something to those words.
But I most certainly could be wrong on this, and this was pre-Foundry release videos if anybody wants to play video archeologist.
Yeah Defender Fighter? No such thing! Defender is a class. Guardian Fighter? Yeah, it's teh awesome as a Defender.