My thoughts after today's stream

hustin1

Today's stream was, I thought, a good discussion. I've had some time to digest it (as well as dinner) since then and now that the food coma is setting in, this is a good time to pen some thoughts. My perspective is likely going to differ from most of the people there since I was away for a year, but here goes.


Race/Class Quests

I was disappointed to hear Robert sort of deflect by talking about the expense of returning them, but I understand that the expense of restoring content is never zero. That said, here's what I think of the subject:

I think it's reasonable to break those quests into two categories: quests whose maps are still in the game and quests whose maps have been removed. For instance: the halfling race quest takes you to Blacklake, so that would go into the latter category. By contrast, there may be race or class quests whose maps are still all present. I think it's reasonable to look at restoring those quests in the nearer term, as the expense of doing so should be minimal. Surely that content still exists in a software repository and the quests themselves can be restored without modification. For other quests, restoring them can be a longer-term goal where they get restored one at a time as development resources are available. There is no requirement for all of that content to be restored all at once.


Thaumaturge Issues

I have a lot of alts (21 at the moment) and as such I'm not in any one class camp. Three of them are wizards, with two as Thaumaturges. Of those two, one is an all-out, balls-to-the-wall CC build. I've had that particular alt for a *very* long time, so long that she has a Cloak of Lesser Etherealness. So we're talking all the way back to Mod 2.

Here's what I think of the Thaumaturge. You can make a Thaumaturge extremely good at CC (crowd control), somewhat good at DPS, but not at both. If you were to ask me what they *can* excel at, I would say that they can excel at CC but not at DPS. Even so, excelling at CC can only be done at the cost of DPS.

If you're only interested in solo play (campaigns, the occasional event, etc.) this isn't really a problem. A CC build is completely viable in solo play, it's just a different style: instead of blasting enemies with magic, you're immobilizing them and killing them over time. In a lot of ways it's easier than playing as an Arcanist, but battles do tend to take longer.

The problem is if you try to take your CC Thaumaturge to a dungeon. Prior to Mod 6 (I know, I know), there was a need for CC in dungeons, and a CC-build wizard with lower-than-average DPS had a role to play. Today, this isn't the case, as we don't see nearly the adds we used to see in boss fights: those few adds who do appear can simply be blasted by DPS as there aren't enough of them to constitute more than a nuisance.

"So, increase the number of adds in dungeons," you might be expecting me to say. Well, there's also a problem with that. Prior to Mod 6, while it's true that every dungeon had lots of adds in boss fights, it also meant that CC wizards were mandatory. No one else could adequately fill the same role, and so if you didn't have a CC wizard available, you couldn't expect to complete the boss fight. So increasing the number of adds isn't a solution unless there are multiple classes that can fill the CC role.

And this leads us to the chicken-and-egg problem we have today. Wizards were originally built with two potential roles: DPS and CC, but no one needs CC anymore in dungeons, and no one else can potentially fill the CC role if we suddenly did. To handle Thaumaturge correctly, you'd first have to ensure that at least three classes could fulfill a CC role and only then could you increase the number of adds to make a Thamaturge build worthwhile.

Can this be done? Perhaps. Back then there were three paragon paths per class, but today we have more classes. I suppose that a bard could be given some sort of "enthrall" build for locking down adds, and rangers could be given a more robust CC paragon path. Or perhaps some other class and paragon path combination could work. At any rate, if the Thaumaturge CC path is to be made viable, they can't be the only game in town.

Robert talked about increasing the amount of DPS that Thaumaturges can bring to bear. While this is the "safe" option, it's not without its dangers. Let's say that the DPS of a Thaumaturge is increased to make them competitive with Arcanist. What's to stop everyone, then, from simply switching from Arcanist to Thaumaturge? If they get roughly the same DPS from either path but also get CC from Thamaturge, there's no benefit to remaining as an Arcanist. The point of the two paragon paths, regardless of class, is that they fulfill two distinct *roles*. The real problem that Wizards have is that their CC role is no longer needed in group play.

johnnystranger

Well , I was mystified why this stream was even a stream . I mean all this stream mentioned was the wizard class will be getting a little love come next mod ,24. Details are not even known how the class will be beefed up as they are still in the research of the wizard . Stay tuned
Only notable I took is that I got a feeling the BOA will be drastically nerfed in some way . There seems to be too many problems with its damage and procs that I got a gut feeling from Robert that big changes are coming to BOA. He’d I’d mention they will try to keep most people happy
I play an Arcanist as an alt and have had zero problems with its dps but like OP said , if Thaum gets better boost , I’ll just swap loadouts . Not sure this would be a worthwhile time investment if this is the fix

stryker80

While Thaum retains CC and gains DPS, why couldn't Arcanist retain DPS and gain CC? Maybe it's just me, but I feel like Thaum is more of a DoT paragon from getting lit on fire and pelted with snow, while Arcanist is more of DD paragon.

As far as CC goes, Thaum would be more of a slow / knockdown* whereas Arcanist would be more of a stun / daze in my mind.

*emphasis on knockDOWN because knockBACKS just PO your group.

powerpuff

stryker80#0653 said:

emphasis on knockDOWN because knockBACKS just PO your group.

Yes - pushing mobs AWAY from the melee attackers is poor tactics. Pushing them off a cliff to a quick death - good tactics! But it is difficult to anticipate encounter/daily usage from other party members so every wizard needs to use that power carefully and selectively.

olocancom

hustin1 said:

And this leads us to the chicken-and-egg problem we have today. Wizards were originally built with two potential roles: DPS and CC, but no one needs CC anymore in dungeons, and no one else can potentially fill the CC role if we suddenly did. To handle Thaumaturge correctly, you'd first have to ensure that at least three classes could fulfill a CC role and only then could you increase the number of adds to make a Thamaturge build worthwhile.

I love playing with CC powers but in most dungeons there's absolutely no need. And as you noted simply adjusting the dungeons isn't a solution. I'd like to see Thaumaturge do big burst aoe damage. And rely less on building stacks. When you're running with a strong party mobs are usually dead before you can build stacks except for a few exceptions. And for st having more buffs/debuffs that effect the party/enemies could provide wizard that secondary role in place of cc.