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the state of dps classes now
pariswinters
Member Posts: 858 Arc User
so this mod has been live for like a month now....
been doing a few group dungeons here and there....
i play every class as well...
My general consensus is that wizard is overpowered, and is top dps now......
warlock is #2
ranger is #3
rogue is #4
arbiter cleric is #5
Paladin tank is #6
and both fighter and barbarian are tied for lowest dps
i don't feel any class needs nerfs but it does seem that wizard is disproportionately more powerful then all the other classes....and paladin tank has some strange ability to constantly spam daily powers at will in PVE or they wouldn't even be in my DPS classes list
I base these assumptions on runs i have done with players in the 20-25k range with about the same gear as i run on my 22k cleric.
just did 10 or so codg with a few different players being swapped around between runs.....a few times i was top dps....but mostly a wizard with nearly the same gear as me was doing 2x my dps or more....same with ranger and rogue....there are definitely some balance issues going on that need to be looked into with scrutiny by someone who is qualified to do this kind of thing.
thoughts?
been doing a few group dungeons here and there....
i play every class as well...
My general consensus is that wizard is overpowered, and is top dps now......
warlock is #2
ranger is #3
rogue is #4
arbiter cleric is #5
Paladin tank is #6
and both fighter and barbarian are tied for lowest dps
i don't feel any class needs nerfs but it does seem that wizard is disproportionately more powerful then all the other classes....and paladin tank has some strange ability to constantly spam daily powers at will in PVE or they wouldn't even be in my DPS classes list
I base these assumptions on runs i have done with players in the 20-25k range with about the same gear as i run on my 22k cleric.
just did 10 or so codg with a few different players being swapped around between runs.....a few times i was top dps....but mostly a wizard with nearly the same gear as me was doing 2x my dps or more....same with ranger and rogue....there are definitely some balance issues going on that need to be looked into with scrutiny by someone who is qualified to do this kind of thing.
thoughts?
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For example if the fighter and paladin were to do the same amount of damage, the pally will begin to be requested over the fighter because of the additional utility which is healing.
Same with cleric, imagine the cleric and the wizzy dished out the same amount of damage. Do you think you would see LFM any statements in zone chat? No, they would begin to target the classes that bring additional utility. Who would want a wizard if the cleric brings more utility with the same amount of damage output?
Personally I think there is a new issue cropping up. I have been having lots of conversations with alliance members and players outside my alliance about them quit playing both cleric and paladin because they have become boring classes. The Devout Cleric suffers from divinity starvation rendering it with only 1 encounter in long fights. The damage the Devout dishes out is so little that dust hitting the monster does more damage. The arbiter is decent in damage but players will pressure players to run devout which becomes a boring heal bot. You just hit one button to either cleanse to remove debufs from whiny party members who want the debuffs removed or you are just using bastion since its so cheap party members can be as reckless as they want and blame the cleric if they die. So players are switching their main cleric or paladin for another class.
Its hard to get any alliance members to run paladin or cleric but even going outside the alliance it is still just as difficult to find them.
Unfortunately the low magnitudes, clunky powers and zero depth in our encounter roster are not even the worst things about warlock dps. It is our tab, soul scorch. Soul scorch is such a terrible power that it eats up two of our feats to make it somewhat useful in cooldown reduction. While rogue and barb tabs are just better than soul scorch, wizard tab is strictly better than warlock tab since they can pick whichever power to slot there and it receives a buff whereas soul scorch is just a crippled encounter power. Warlock's curse was unique amongst other tab abilities and was a really good one too, mod 16 basically forces warlocks to use this abomination called soul scorch. Overall, people are trying hard to make their warlock work but I do think that as people begin to realize how bad warlock dps is in mod 16, fewer people even keep playing it and most, like me, will start gearing up a wizard or a rogue to feel like an actual dps again.
I do the same thing actually but any class can do that and benefit pretty much the same from those gear. New gear, new bonuses are not actually new imo, they seem to be recycled HAMSTER.
My observation so far running Lomm.
Classes using: https://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Envenomed_Storyteller's_Journal and sometimes this on top https://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Doohickey > most class using anything else, since Chartilifax aura deals up to 140k ticks, nothing any of my aoe-encounterpower can deal and that pocketpet is dealing also bigger numbers than my aoe-encounter too !
Single target:
All classes are close to each other at singel-target output, Wizard significant ahead imo, followed by TR > followed by warlock/GWF/Hunter
AOE:
Again, significant difference using a journal, situationally dealing up to 70% of all dps every 60 sec., plus nearly adding a second daily on top, plus a pocketpet doing better aoe than my aoe-encounter deal. Some classes seem to work well with companions active bonus applying weapon damage bonus, some don´t. Substracting all those variables I would estimate something like this
Hunter > Wizard/GWF/TR> Warlock
A paladin with a broken feat called Burning Vengeance https://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Burning_Vengeance can be better in trash clearing than some classes, having endless Dailies and spamming https://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Radiant_Charge every 10 seconds, same as having an aoe with 600 magnitude and a low CD on top-> best aoe-encounter my main got is a power called Hellfire Ring and only works if mobs stay inside at -> 255 magnitude.
I won´t say devs did a bad job concerning balance, but there are some smaller disbalances and some bigger ones to discuss beside some tools that are either bugged or overpowered af.
I can run my class at any content and I have no issue dealing good dps, not top but good.
My biggest concern atm is the small choice I got in mod 16 due to so many feats, classfeature and power I can´t pick at all, due to missing feedback and will on devs side to "fix" stuff before release (we all recognized the huge disbalance in class feadback on preview), same that warlock is a 2. degree healer at best and far below the abilities a paladin or DC can show up with. The class is inable to run endcontent in a compareable way, so I stopped trying.
Maybe this is intentional and devs should simply state: "We decided to give warlock a dps role at first, healer role is not intended to match with classes like OP and DC, since those classes have a innate role in D&D to be effective healer, warlock not that much"
I am fine with a statement like that, so I can stop thinking about that role and what went wrong and maybe in 5 years they gonna switch the class into dps/dps.
If I scale this up, a good perfoming dps DC should deal like 1 mio Forgemaster-hits and maybe beat some of those classes above, same as Searing Javelin is a pretty strong aoe 720mag charged, can´t tell since never met.
PS: that Arbiter Path can revover Divinity pretty fast due to Sudden Verdict , same as DL (feated) + Forgemaster are the biggest single target encounter in game actually dealing 1050 and 1200 mag hits at fully pips (2-3x the magnitude of warlocks biggest encounter 400-600) but they need to be charged.
* I think @asterdahl did a pretty good job, where Fighter, paladin, DC and Barbarian were a more challenging task to solve in terms of class overhaul and balance... near impossible to not get "burried" by community after launch.
Anyway I have spent the last few days wondering which other one of my alts I should play for a while. Take a break from the cleric, but then I realized why I can't decide. They all have their campaigns done, they have all their boons, all they need is to be taken through the new campaign and geared which my cleric has been collecting gear for them. But then I realize I have no incentive to run any of them. I will just be another cleric who swaps class and never looks back because its becoming incredibly boring being a heal bot.
I even tried to have ONE goal which was to get a party through LoMM with no deaths. My closest run was 2 total deaths and have the screen to prove it. That was the best I could do despite the fact that I was one of those deaths and it occurred on the first boss fight which I rarely if ever die on.
Anyways I have given up on trying to have a zero death run of Lomm and the last two days I get asked to go to lomm and I go but I notice that while I'm playing I just dont care to heal. I know I am annoying my party but it's just no longer fun to run cleric. I even have past screens of Castle Ravenloft where I was 2nd place on the paingiver as an ACdc. But I realize the days of cleric dealing damage and healing are long gone. It's only one or the other. Devout damage is terrible that I can't even look at the paingiver list. I know, I know, I hear the counter arguments, Devout are not meant to be damage dealers, deal with it. I hear you but it's becoming so boring to be a heal bot. The devout offers nothing other than healing, no buffing, nothing. At least in mod 15 I could measure a bit of success on my ability to maintain buffs on the party and healing was just a laughable side bonus.
I have no desire to play any of my alts. I have tried to log them in multiple times, thinking I'll just run them through the new campaign but I can't even get them out of PE before I find myself reloging onto cleric to respond to a request to run LoMM.
Sometimes i run with other cws and finish LoMM with double or triple their dmg.
I found some very good rogues, warlocks, Rangers and sometimes 1 good barbarian.
I think if you take the best of the best players with same equipment. The didderence un DPS would be very small.
People ask all time to give your build and other things, most are lost because there arent still guides and detailed info of M16.
Most people cant learn by themselves and then come to the forum asking for nerfs. This was allways the same since game released.
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Wizards are in a way good baIanced spot right now, and arcanist need a bit improvement for his AoE portion.
MyseIf, a wizard, have found a way to max my buiIds as i tested on preview and as others have said here, end game pIayers that know what they are doing.
What cIass are you?
Because in my experience, I Have found good barbarians, rogues, rangers, warIocks and even arbiters (surprised by this) that can match my dps. What you don't know, is, that wizards are too dependant on criticaI chance to deaI damage, because their damage magnitudes are so Iow compared to the rest of dps cIasses, except warIock. I can't mention the same for guardian dps, even with higher magnitudes, they remain 3rd in my charts. But this doesnt happen with barbarian, rogues, and speciaIIy rangers, who have Iowest CooIdowns that can even be further decreased by feats, and decent magnitude powers happen every 3-5 secs?
So don't say wizards are overpowered when you don't know the struggIe, we have Iong cooIdowns and our best encounter deaIs 475 damage, say that to any other dps (except warIock) with magnitudes higher than 600. Remove the criticaI in a wizard and u wiII see them in the bottoms of undermountain.
Cloud 2,7 mio.
Maybe if they finally remove Bastion of Health from Arbiter like they should have done in the beginning, players will stop making so many references to "pure" DPS vs. not.
I even see players saying that Wizard shouldn't deal as much damage as other DPS because they aren't "pure". I think a lot of people missed the memo that Wizards haven't been desirable for their control functions for years.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
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