I said it before, instead of trying to make some totally new "innovative" wheel, why not just use 5e D&D rules as close as possible in a real time system, people have been working on that game for 45 some odd years. I would be willing to bet that an honest recreation of the D&D system would bring many new players to the game, and probably some back to the game, and the best part is, all the rules are already there, all the developers would need to do is work out some edge-cases where pnp rules wouldn't work in real time, and then codify the rules. All the suggestions for balancing quests for players and parties are in the rulebooks, monsters' stats, classes, races, and everything is already done for you. I mean, you already license D&D ip right? Why not go all the way instead of this aberration we're getting.
The combat system in D&D is inherently removed from the idea of a real time system. The closest anyone came was with NWN2, and the more players were involved, the more cumbersome that combat system became. It was best played as a solo game due to the turn based nature of trying to stick closely to D&D.
I've been playing D&D for most of those 40 odd years and would love it if there were a way to replicate the P&P rules more accurately, but I don't think its possible in an MMO setting. There are more important things to focus on when trying to keep to the "Spirit" of D&D. Including, having some meaning to the six Prime requisite stats beyond being "Generic Combat Stat Modifiers A to F" and allowing some flexibility and player creativity when creating a character.
To enforce within the core of the game that ALL Rogues MUST be the least intelligent class in order to maintain some pretence of "Balance" is lazy. Making the single most Charismatic class in the history of the game suddenly the least charismatic by design in order to make sure that Paladins' companions don't like them (or whatever the given reason is) is just plain missing the point of the game.
NEW players are going to come to Neverwinter, from the P&P game and see that ALL Thieves are dumb, and Paladins have a starting Charisma of 8 and they are going to think, "These guys haven't got a HAMSTER clue! What game are they basing this on, 'cos it isn't D&D!"
And its because in a drive to maintain class balance they've forgotten to maintain balance between the game mechanics and what makes it uniquely Dungeons and Dragons.
(Including Wizards having a FIREBALL spell!!!!!!!)
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theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
I said it before, instead of trying to make some totally new "innovative" wheel, why not just use 5e D&D rules as close as possible in a real time system, people have been working on that game for 45 some odd years. I would be willing to bet that an honest recreation of the D&D system would bring many new players to the game, and probably some back to the game, and the best part is, all the rules are already there, all the developers would need to do is work out some edge-cases where pnp rules wouldn't work in real time, and then codify the rules. All the suggestions for balancing quests for players and parties are in the rulebooks, monsters' stats, classes, races, and everything is already done for you. I mean, you already license D&D ip right? Why not go all the way instead of this aberration we're getting.
The combat system in D&D is inherently removed from the idea of a real time system. The closest anyone came was with NWN2, and the more players were involved, the more cumbersome that combat system became. It was best played as a solo game due to the turn based nature of trying to stick closely to D&D.
I've been playing D&D for most of those 40 odd years and would love it if there were a way to replicate the P&P rules more accurately, but I don't think its possible in an MMO setting. There are more important things to focus on when trying to keep to the "Spirit" of D&D. Including, having some meaning to the six Prime requisite stats beyond being "Generic Combat Stat Modifiers A to F" and allowing some flexibility and player creativity when creating a character.
To enforce within the core of the game that ALL Rogues MUST be the least intelligent class in order to maintain some pretence of "Balance" is lazy. Making the single most Charismatic class in the history of the game suddenly the least charismatic by design in order to make sure that Paladins' companions don't like them (or whatever the given reason is) is just plain missing the point of the game.
NEW players are going to come to Neverwinter, from the P&P game and see that ALL Thieves are dumb, and Paladins have a starting Charisma of 8 and they are going to think, "These guys haven't got a HAMSTER clue! What game are they basing this on, 'cos it isn't D&D!"
And its because in a drive to maintain class balance they've forgotten to maintain balance between the game mechanics and what makes it uniquely Dungeons and Dragons.
(Including Wizards having a FIREBALL spell!!!!!!!)
I'm on team fireball, but I understand creating a new spell is a game mechanics challenge.
But it'd be trivially easy to rename Sudden Storm to Lightning Bolt, so hopefully they'll do at least that much.
Yes, Wizards in NW have been jealous of Warlocks for a long time.
I'm no expert in game development, but think it wouldn't be too hard to develop a real time game from the pnp rules, all the abilities have a standard action time it takes to use, and players have an amount of movement they can take in a round, which is supposed to represent 6 seconds in real time. Take that and allow everyone to take their "turn" at the same time, drop the concept of initiative, and maybe reduce the amount of time in a "round" or the amount of time it takes to use an ability or attack to keep it fluid and adjust those as needed, this is stuff they already do. Basically, just remove these stats that are "under the hood" so to speak (power, defense, crit, deflect,...etc), use Ability Scores and their Modifiers along with Armor Class to determine damage and if something is a hit, a miss, or a crit, and use an rngs in the range of 1-4,6,8,10,12,20,100 etc where applicable. This I think would be the easiest part of it.
Then as far as classes go, they already have a similar layout to what classes and subclasses are in 5e, it wouldn't be a big leap for them to implement that.
They have a lot of the foundation already done, some of the more difficult things to implement would be stuff like saving throws for cc and debuff effects, the ability to equip different weapons like simple and martial weapons and such, and other aspects of pnp that they completely left out of the game. It would be a big overhaul, but it's possible.
And then they could let us queue in hard mode, and have variants like friendly fire, where that fireball would damage your party and stuff, unless they took school of evocation that is.
It doesn't have to be an exact representation, but I think moving away from these stats, to basing it all on ability scores would be a good start.
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theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
Yes, Wizards in NW have been jealous of Warlocks for a long time.
I'm no expert in game development, but think it wouldn't be too hard to develop a real time game from the pnp rules, all the abilities have a standard action time it takes to use, and players have an amount of movement they can take in a round, which is supposed to represent 6 seconds in real time. Take that and allow everyone to take their "turn" at the same time, drop the concept of initiative, and maybe reduce the amount of time in a "round" or the amount of time it takes to use an ability or attack to keep it fluid and adjust those as needed, this is stuff they already do. Basically, just remove these stats that are "under the hood" so to speak (power, defense, crit, deflect,...etc), use Ability Scores and their Modifiers along with Armor Class to determine damage and if something is a hit, a miss, or a crit, and use an rngs in the range of 1-4,6,8,10,12,20,100 etc where applicable. This I think would be the easiest part of it.
Then as far as classes go, they already have a similar layout to what classes and subclasses are in 5e, it wouldn't be a big leap for them to implement that.
They have a lot of the foundation already done, some of the more difficult things to implement would be stuff like saving throws for cc and debuff effects, the ability to equip different weapons like simple and martial weapons and such, and other aspects of pnp that they completely left out of the game. It would be a big overhaul, but it's possible.
And then they could let us queue in hard mode, and have variants like friendly fire, where that fireball would damage your party and stuff, unless they took school of evocation that is.
It doesn't have to be an exact representation, but I think moving away from these stats, to basing it all on ability scores would be a good start.
I mean, Pillars of Eternity is a series that uses a D&D style of gameplay (not actual D&D rules but similar) for real time with pause gameplay, and it works well. But it's not an MMO. The complexity of options in D&D really does require that "real time with pause" or turn based decision making. You can't just port it over.
Well, DDO is gonna tell me I'm full of @!#$ but either way, it'd be an entirely different game.
Yes, Wizards in NW have been jealous of Warlocks for a long time.
I'm no expert in game development, but think it wouldn't be too hard to develop a real time game from the pnp rules, all the abilities have a standard action time it takes to use, and players have an amount of movement they can take in a round, which is supposed to represent 6 seconds in real time. Take that and allow everyone to take their "turn" at the same time, drop the concept of initiative, and maybe reduce the amount of time in a "round" or the amount of time it takes to use an ability or attack to keep it fluid and adjust those as needed, this is stuff they already do. Basically, just remove these stats that are "under the hood" so to speak (power, defense, crit, deflect,...etc), use Ability Scores and their Modifiers along with Armor Class to determine damage and if something is a hit, a miss, or a crit, and use an rngs in the range of 1-4,6,8,10,12,20,100 etc where applicable. This I think would be the easiest part of it.
Then as far as classes go, they already have a similar layout to what classes and subclasses are in 5e, it wouldn't be a big leap for them to implement that.
They have a lot of the foundation already done, some of the more difficult things to implement would be stuff like saving throws for cc and debuff effects, the ability to equip different weapons like simple and martial weapons and such, and other aspects of pnp that they completely left out of the game. It would be a big overhaul, but it's possible.
And then they could let us queue in hard mode, and have variants like friendly fire, where that fireball would damage your party and stuff, unless they took school of evocation that is.
It doesn't have to be an exact representation, but I think moving away from these stats, to basing it all on ability scores would be a good start.
I will say that "misses" are bad gameplay for an MMO of this style, and that the concept of them is largely present in Deflection.
Overall, MMOs are much more granular than good tabletop games- their are a number of reasons for this, from the under-the-hood engine being able to handle much more granular numbers to the very fact that those granular numbers make it easier to create progression.
As for time flow, converting turn-based to real-time is such an arduous task that there's a very good reason tabletop games are only rarely made into MMOs, and why they are often plagued by people who don't understand the scope of the task complaining that it was "done wrong"
Why are we nerfed in the new dungeon? We are level 80 and the dungeon is level 80, our runestones give 660 each outside of the dungeon but inside they are cut in half.
What i would like to see, since unifying all attributes some classes get reaaaaaaaaly srewed over. Cleric for exp. Nobody needs to forced to have that much wisdom if what the class needs is con int and cha
Pls make it that u start at 10 of every Attribute and get more picks while lvling.
A simple token would solve bad decisions.
Then for further Mod i realy would like to kill power crit defens etc.
Make enchants and gear give int cha dex etc. And hide those stats behind Attributes.
I dont like this whole power over 10k Make it simpler and return to dnd roots
I’d like a confirmation about how combat advantage works, a bit of a noobie question.
In groups, getting positioned for combat advantage to take effect is relatively easy, but when soloing for some classes not as much, unless you can get it working with your companion (who currently arrive late to the party) and arent using an augment companion, or have something that gives it to you in powers or feats for your class.
So my basic understanding, unless you are seeing those swords next to your damage number, you could have a ton of CA stats, and it’s not doing you a bit of good. Is this correct?
Also, am I correct that the percent you are getting when you calculate it against the mob’s opposing roll, is the percent of extra damage that a CA hit will do? Is it applied last when figuring damage, or just a part of a bigger calculation that could further diminish the final percent?
An alternative to Stat negation would be a move toward percentage effectiveness, done in a way that a stat always has some effect no matter how small.
If you take the current percentages of Accuracy, CriticalResist, ArmorPen, & Awareness... which are 1% per 500 stat, and plug them into the following equation:
Anti-Stat% / Anti-Stat% + (Cap%/2) ... yields percent Effectiveness. The Stat it works against is always reduced by this percentage
25 CritResist (12,500 Crit Resist Points) always gives a flat (25/(25+25)) = 50% reduction of Critical Chance.
50 ArmorPen (25,000 ArmorPen Points) always gives a flat (50/ (50 + 40)) = 55.55% reduction of Defense. This means, whatever Defense you go against, multiply its DR% by 44.44% to find its effective value against your AP level.
This type of a system has the following advantages:
The actual reduction percent can be shown in player stat screens
The values are very similar to current values, except small stats will always still have a small positive effect
The server resource draw is small. (Its just a % of a stat each time)
Lets look at Critical Hits in Barovia to see what this system looks like: 25% criticalHit chance versus 20% CriticalResist yields a 13.8% chance of critical using the formula above. 10% criticalHit chance versus 15% CriticalResist yields a 6.25% chance of critical using the formula above 65% criticalHit chance versus 15% CriticalResist yields a 41.25% chance of critical using the formula above 25% criticalHit chance versus 75% CriticalResist yields a 6.25% chance of critical using the formula above
Overall, it generates a very robust spectrum of results.
at this point i'm a bit lost trying to understand the new connection between gear, class and attributes.
what i mean, is that if all the new gear is supposed to have the same number of points on it, how does the type of gear affect it ? Is there now no difference between cloth armour and plate armour?
does a terry robe with 500 defense now give the same as admantium really great shield 500 defense?
do we have, for lack of a better dnd reference, simple, martial and exotic weapons that declare base damage and various classes can use these weapons ? I believe instead the current situation is each class has it's own individual equipment weapon type with each class getting balanced separately.
doesn't this make it hard to balance all the classes together since you now have to do a separate work pass on each class rather than: lets work on the light damage users and the heavy weapon users and than adjust magic afterwards to balance everything out so they have equal time to shine.
why is all our gear on equipment to begin with and we dont have base stat that go up every time we level ? we then equip our gear to increase our build.
i'm just asking all this to get an understanding of where we are, and how the stats in the game relate to the pnp so i can make more informed feedback to the rule changes.
We the Warlocks have a Fiery Bolt, which we call Fire Ball when there are Wizards at a near table in the tavern
Yeah... but that's like Wizards saying, "What happened to our Italian Sports Car? We should have a Ferrari or a Lamborghini!!!" And Warlocks turning round and saying, "We've got an Italian Sports car... look." And there's a Fiat 124 parked there.
The Fiat may be a perfectly good car. It may even be far more practical in day to day use than the prancing horse or the Lambo. But when you're looking to make a statement...
We the Warlocks have a Fiery Bolt, which we call Fire Ball when there are Wizards at a near table in the tavern
Yeah... but that's like Wizards saying, "What happened to our Italian Sports Car? We should have a Ferrari or a Lamborghini!!!" And Warlocks turning round and saying, "We've got an Italian Sports car... look." And there's a Fiat 124 parked there.
The Fiat may be a perfectly good car. It may even be far more practical in day to day use than the prancing horse or the Lambo. But when you're looking to make a statement...
Depends on the statement. Try and keep up with this in a rally: with your Ferrari or a Lambo.
Anyway, back on topic, I hope you guys are not testing full future endgame chars only: for 99% of the playerbase out there, that won't be achievable the day MOD16 is released. With few exceptions, most will experience fully developed chars in 6 months or more... There are 2 implications: 1) both new and old content must be enjoyable with current equip (plus some easily obtained upgrades); 2) there's little point in testing endgame chars in MOD16 if you're not going to have one before MOD17, since conditions will be different by then anyway.
Obs. Post here because it wont fit in a single class, pls tell me if theres a best place for this feedback
After playing a bit of each tank i notice that when blocking i lose agro even for some agressive pets, it made me think, isnt possible to make all tanks to build threat from Blocked damage ? This would solve the Paladin and Barbarian loosing threat when blocking (also Fighters on Dig.) I belive is not easy to make (maybe impossible) but i may be wrong, and if possible it may solve a lot of threat problems we are facing atm...
(Again sorry for any mistakes, english is not my native language)
Obs. Post here because it wont fit in a single class, pls tell me if theres a best place for this feedback
After playing a bit of each tank i notice that when blocking i lose agro even for some agressive pets, it made me think, isnt possible to make all tanks to build threat from Blocked damage ? This would solve the Paladin and Barbarian loosing threat when blocking (also Fighters on Dig.) I belive is not easy to make (maybe impossible) but i may be wrong, and if possible it may solve a lot of threat problems we are facing atm...
(Again sorry for any mistakes, english is not my native language)
I think the goal is for a much more active and aggressive playstyle for tanks(don't get me started on Dig In's lack of synergy with this paradigm)- enemy damage is tuned such that you should be able to survive some unblocked hits, as long as you don't eat a glowy wind-up to the face, so they want you to be attacking to generate threat. Reactive threat isn't a bad idea, but from dev comments, they don't want a scenario where you build your initial threat, then sit behind your shield until a taunt power is off cooldown, so it would have to be tuned such that it was still markedly inferior to actually hitting the bads to HAMSTER them off at you.
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mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
After the last patch I went from balanced stats to this. This is far too many offensive stats for a resistance of 24k.
How much companion influence do you have?
Right now companion influence isn't showing on the companion window (we are investigating that issue), but should be applying properly and therefore passing off the ratings to the player.
Enchantments were giving too much companion influence in comparison to the other types of stats you could get for the same item level, those have been adjusted down for the next update, but even with that change top end enemy ratings are probably too low.
If those gains aren't from companion influence we will have to investigate further.
We are still adjusting ratings of critters and other aspects of the game as we gather feedback.
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mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
After the last patch I went from balanced stats to this. This is far too many offensive stats for a resistance of 24k.
How much companion influence do you have?
Right now companion influence isn't showing on the companion window (we are investigating that issue), but should be applying properly and therefore passing off the ratings to the player.
Enchantments were giving too much companion influence in comparison to the other types of stats you could get for the same item level, those have been adjusted down for the next update, but even with that change top end enemy ratings are probably too low.
If those gains aren't from companion influence we will have to investigate further.
We are still adjusting ratings of critters and other aspects of the game as we gather feedback.
if you saw my screenshots i have around +9k to each rating and i dont use any insignia with companion influence or enchant.
@asterdahl told us to come here from the Cleric Feedback thread for this problem, so I'm here:
While I don't really object to the set Ability Score arrays, it's a problem when Clerics are forced to put their 18 in a dump stat. In Mod16 as-is Wisdom is *useless* for Clerics, and it would be better to put the 8 in Wisdom and the 18 in Intelligence.
NO, that just feels wrong. It is just fine that WIS is the primary stat of DCs - that is how it should be, as long as the game pretends to have any D&D connection at all. What is NOT FINE is
...that we lose the ability to roll initial stats - there was nothing wrong with the old system. The removal of stat rolling is a big step in the wrong direction and serves no good purpose whatsoever.
...that WIS does not benefit Clerics in any way
...that the benefits from the stats are in general so bad that they just don't matter...I mean 0.25%? Really ?
I agree it feels wrong to dump Wisdom as a Cleric, but in Mod16 as-is it's the objectively right way to build one. Despite the fact that Clerics are required to stick an 18 in it, Wisdom is emphatically NOT the primary stat of a Cleric: It does absolutely nothing for them, and a Cleric with a high Wisdom is *worse at being a Cleric* than a Cleric with a low Wisdom and higher Charisma and Intelligence.
"Making Wisdom a stat a Cleric wants" is probably the best fix.
@noworries#8859 any update on the Wisdom is a stat that no class wants to put points into, and Clerics with a low Wisdom are better at being Clerics than Clerics with a high Wisdom problem? Even an acknowledgement that you've seen the feedback?
1. The old stats meant different things for different characters added some D&D flavor. By allowing some selection they also gave a feeling of ownership of your character at creation. I do miss this. 2. Wisdom is a horrible stat in the new system especially for clerics. AP gain should be modified by Wisdom rather than Con because Con is already has HP gain. Other options would be splitting magical damage into arcane driven by INT and Divine driven by WIS.
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adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
edited March 2019
There is something really weird going on with runestones when I am being downscaled I put a Recondite runestone in a piece of companion equipment, but the highest one I had was R9...fine. When I am not downscaled, the R14 stone gives 580 (Power) and the R9 one gives 300 (Accuracy). Nowever, when downscaled to L70 they both give the same amount (like 120 in this example)
Second strange thing is that when I get sownscaled, my stats are very different depending on which Zone I am in, and sometimes the numbers are just weird. For example, in the Underdark I get downscaled to L70 and my stats there are not only lower than in other L70 Zones, like RD, IWD or Chult, but also actually lower than in Sharandar, where I get downscaled to L64. This makes no sense.
There is something really weird going on with runestones when I am being downscaled I put a Recondite runestone in a piece of companion equipment, but the highest one I had was R9...fine. When I am not downscaled, the R14 stone gives 580 (Power) and the R9 one gives 300 (Accuracy). Nowever, when downscaled to L70 they both give the same amount (like 120 in this example)
Second strange thing is that when I get sownscaled, my stats are very different depending on which Zone I am in, and sometimes the numbers are just weird. For example, in the Underdark I get downscaled to L70 and my stats there are not only lower than in other L70 Zones, like RD, IWD or Chult, but also actually lower than in Sharandar, where I get downscaled to L64. This makes no sense.
Scaling isn't a proportional adjustment, scaling has a limit on how high an item level can be for a specific type of item, things above that are brought down to that level. That does mean different rank items can end up at the same effectiveness in scaled content.
As far as the Underdark/Sharandar, that would be an issue with where Underdark was set. Chult, Ravenloft, Dreadring don't all scale to the same place even though they are all level 70. Chult is meant to be a more powerful area than Dreadring, so the scaling allows a higher level of items in Chult than it does in Dreadring.
There is something really weird going on with runestones when I am being downscaled I put a Recondite runestone in a piece of companion equipment, but the highest one I had was R9...fine. When I am not downscaled, the R14 stone gives 580 (Power) and the R9 one gives 300 (Accuracy). Nowever, when downscaled to L70 they both give the same amount (like 120 in this example)
Second strange thing is that when I get sownscaled, my stats are very different depending on which Zone I am in, and sometimes the numbers are just weird. For example, in the Underdark I get downscaled to L70 and my stats there are not only lower than in other L70 Zones, like RD, IWD or Chult, but also actually lower than in Sharandar, where I get downscaled to L64. This makes no sense.
Scaling isn't a proportional adjustment, scaling has a limit on how high an item level can be for a specific type of item, things above that are brought down to that level. That does mean different rank items can end up at the same effectiveness in scaled content.
As far as the Underdark/Sharandar, that would be an issue with where Underdark was set. Chult, Ravenloft, Dreadring don't all scale to the same place even though they are all level 70. Chult is meant to be a more powerful area than Dreadring, so the scaling allows a higher level of items in Chult than it does in Dreadring.
And the same happens with weapon damage, a level 60 rank 1 weapon has the same damage as a level 80 rank 60 weapon
0
thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
After the last patch I went from balanced stats to this. This is far too many offensive stats for a resistance of 24k.
How much companion influence do you have?
Right now companion influence isn't showing on the companion window (we are investigating that issue), but should be applying properly and therefore passing off the ratings to the player.
Enchantments were giving too much companion influence in comparison to the other types of stats you could get for the same item level, those have been adjusted down for the next update, but even with that change top end enemy ratings are probably too low.
If those gains aren't from companion influence we will have to investigate further.
We are still adjusting ratings of critters and other aspects of the game as we gather feedback.
I have 4.75% from 19 Charisma and 9.6% from 4 insignias of dominance. I have silveries in Utility because I couldn't be bothered to switch them to darks. Furthermore, it appears companion influence is not even working on preview, I see no noticeable difference in stats with or without them.
After the last patch I went from balanced stats to this. This is far too many offensive stats for a resistance of 24k.
How much companion influence do you have?
Right now companion influence isn't showing on the companion window (we are investigating that issue), but should be applying properly and therefore passing off the ratings to the player.
Enchantments were giving too much companion influence in comparison to the other types of stats you could get for the same item level, those have been adjusted down for the next update, but even with that change top end enemy ratings are probably too low.
If those gains aren't from companion influence we will have to investigate further.
We are still adjusting ratings of critters and other aspects of the game as we gather feedback.
I can do the math for one stat. Defense without a companion 12148 Defense with a companion 3r14=204% Companion stat bonus 11% Defense from Tiger 4288 Defense when calling that companion 26984 ----------------------------------------- Bonus stat 14836/4288 -> 346% buff estimated buff 3x68%+11% or x 11% not sure about that first way it should be 215%-> 2.15x4288+12148=21367 second way it should be 226,4%->2.264x4288+12148=21856
Defense after 5 stacks of Companions Protectors Camradie 27984 (+5x200)
Bug: My stats were fluctuating drastically between different zones last night, even though I was level 80 in all of them: Stronghold, PE, Lair of the Mad Mage. I made sure to check it with Companion buff up so that wasn't the cause.
Scaling isn't a proportional adjustment, scaling has a limit on how high an item level can be for a specific type of item, things above that are brought down to that level. That does mean different rank items can end up at the same effectiveness in scaled content.
So, for example, if a given piece of scaled content has a maximum of "rank 7 enchantments", then all enchantments of higher rank, regardless of if they're R8 or R15, will be treated as R7s?
So, for example, if a given piece of scaled content has a maximum of "rank 7 enchantments", then all enchantments of higher rank, regardless of if they're R8 or R15, will be treated as R7s?
That sounds like how it's supposed to work, but I don't think it's that simple. Why? Brutal R15 in PE gives 660 for both offensive stats, in the Stronghold that same Brutal R15 only gives 320 for both offensive stats. That number is between a R9 (300) and R10 (350). Barovia scales to 230 which is between a R7 and R8. I still need to look at the other ranks to see what effect the different areas provide. This scaling also happens with Companion equipment Runestones. Bondings appear to be unaffected by the area scaling, however they are affected by character level scaling. So far i have only tested level 70 and up. At 70, my R15 Bonding has 70% Companion's Gift, at 75, it has 73% Companion's Gift. Utility bonuses also appear to have a character level scaling. Still need to do more testing on Utility only enchantments.
Comments
The closest anyone came was with NWN2, and the more players were involved, the more cumbersome that combat system became. It was best played as a solo game due to the turn based nature of trying to stick closely to D&D.
I've been playing D&D for most of those 40 odd years and would love it if there were a way to replicate the P&P rules more accurately, but I don't think its possible in an MMO setting.
There are more important things to focus on when trying to keep to the "Spirit" of D&D.
Including, having some meaning to the six Prime requisite stats beyond being "Generic Combat Stat Modifiers A to F" and allowing some flexibility and player creativity when creating a character.
To enforce within the core of the game that ALL Rogues MUST be the least intelligent class in order to maintain some pretence of "Balance" is lazy. Making the single most Charismatic class in the history of the game suddenly the least charismatic by design in order to make sure that Paladins' companions don't like them (or whatever the given reason is) is just plain missing the point of the game.
NEW players are going to come to Neverwinter, from the P&P game and see that ALL Thieves are dumb, and Paladins have a starting Charisma of 8 and they are going to think, "These guys haven't got a HAMSTER clue! What game are they basing this on, 'cos it isn't D&D!"
And its because in a drive to maintain class balance they've forgotten to maintain balance between the game mechanics and what makes it uniquely Dungeons and Dragons.
(Including Wizards having a FIREBALL spell!!!!!!!)
But it'd be trivially easy to rename Sudden Storm to Lightning Bolt, so hopefully they'll do at least that much.
I'm no expert in game development, but think it wouldn't be too hard to develop a real time game from the pnp rules, all the abilities have a standard action time it takes to use, and players have an amount of movement they can take in a round, which is supposed to represent 6 seconds in real time. Take that and allow everyone to take their "turn" at the same time, drop the concept of initiative, and maybe reduce the amount of time in a "round" or the amount of time it takes to use an ability or attack to keep it fluid and adjust those as needed, this is stuff they already do. Basically, just remove these stats that are "under the hood" so to speak (power, defense, crit, deflect,...etc), use Ability Scores and their Modifiers along with Armor Class to determine damage and if something is a hit, a miss, or a crit, and use an rngs in the range of 1-4,6,8,10,12,20,100 etc where applicable. This I think would be the easiest part of it.
Then as far as classes go, they already have a similar layout to what classes and subclasses are in 5e, it wouldn't be a big leap for them to implement that.
They have a lot of the foundation already done, some of the more difficult things to implement would be stuff like saving throws for cc and debuff effects, the ability to equip different weapons like simple and martial weapons and such, and other aspects of pnp that they completely left out of the game. It would be a big overhaul, but it's possible.
And then they could let us queue in hard mode, and have variants like friendly fire, where that fireball would damage your party and stuff, unless they took school of evocation that is.
It doesn't have to be an exact representation, but I think moving away from these stats, to basing it all on ability scores would be a good start.
Well, DDO is gonna tell me I'm full of @!#$ but either way, it'd be an entirely different game.
Overall, MMOs are much more granular than good tabletop games- their are a number of reasons for this, from the under-the-hood engine being able to handle much more granular numbers to the very fact that those granular numbers make it easier to create progression.
As for time flow, converting turn-based to real-time is such an arduous task that there's a very good reason tabletop games are only rarely made into MMOs, and why they are often plagued by people who don't understand the scope of the task complaining that it was "done wrong"
Why are we nerfed in the new dungeon? We are level 80 and the dungeon is level 80, our runestones give 660 each outside of the dungeon but inside they are cut in half.
Cleric for exp. Nobody needs to forced to have that much wisdom if what the class needs is con int and cha
Pls make it that u start at 10 of every Attribute and get more picks while lvling.
A simple token would solve bad decisions.
Then for further Mod i realy would like to kill power crit defens etc.
Make enchants and gear give int cha dex etc. And hide those stats behind Attributes.
I dont like this whole power over 10k
Make it simpler and return to dnd roots
In groups, getting positioned for combat advantage to take effect is relatively easy, but when soloing for some classes not as much, unless you can get it working with your companion (who currently arrive late to the party) and arent using an augment companion, or have something that gives it to you in powers or feats for your class.
So my basic understanding, unless you are seeing those swords next to your damage number, you could have a ton of CA stats, and it’s not doing you a bit of good. Is this correct?
Also, am I correct that the percent you are getting when you calculate it against the mob’s opposing roll, is the percent of extra damage that a CA hit will do? Is it applied last when figuring damage, or just a part of a bigger calculation that could further diminish the final percent?
If you take the current percentages of Accuracy, CriticalResist, ArmorPen, & Awareness... which are 1% per 500 stat, and plug them into the following equation:
Anti-Stat% / Anti-Stat% + (Cap%/2) ... yields percent Effectiveness.
The Stat it works against is always reduced by this percentage
25 CritResist (12,500 Crit Resist Points) always gives a flat (25/(25+25)) = 50% reduction of Critical Chance.
50 ArmorPen (25,000 ArmorPen Points) always gives a flat (50/ (50 + 40)) = 55.55% reduction of Defense. This means, whatever Defense you go against, multiply its DR% by 44.44% to find its effective value against your AP level.
This type of a system has the following advantages:
Lets look at Critical Hits in Barovia to see what this system looks like:
25% criticalHit chance versus 20% CriticalResist yields a 13.8% chance of critical using the formula above.
10% criticalHit chance versus 15% CriticalResist yields a 6.25% chance of critical using the formula above
65% criticalHit chance versus 15% CriticalResist yields a 41.25% chance of critical using the formula above
25% criticalHit chance versus 75% CriticalResist yields a 6.25% chance of critical using the formula above
Overall, it generates a very robust spectrum of results.
5,000 * 0.7143
10,000 * 0.5556
15,000 * 0.4545
20,000 * 0.3846
25,000 * 0.3333
30,000 * 0.2941
35,000 * 0.2632
40,000 * 0.2381
45,000 * 0.2174
50,000 * 0.2000
55,000 * 0.1852
60,000 * 0.1724
65,000 * 0.1613
70,000 * 0.1515
75,000 * 0.1429
80,000 * 0.1351
85,000 * 0.1282
90,000 * 0.1220
95,000 * 0.1163
100,000 * 0.1111
ArmorPenetration points * Defense multiplied by
5,000 * 0.8000
10,000 * 0.6667
15,000 * 0.5714
20,000 * 0.5000
25,000 * 0.4444
30,000 * 0.4000
35,000 * 0.3636
40,000 * 0.3333
45,000 * 0.3077
50,000 * 0.2857
55,000 * 0.2667
60,000 * 0.2500
65,000 * 0.2353
70,000 * 0.2222
75,000 * 0.2105
80,000 * 0.2000
85,000 * 0.1905
90,000 * 0.1818
95,000 * 0.1739
100,000 * 0.1667
Awareness points * CombatAdvantage multiplied by
5,000 * 0.8333
10,000 * 0.7143
15,000 * 0.6250
20,000 * 0.5556
25,000 * 0.5000
30,000 * 0.4545
35,000 * 0.4167
40,000 * 0.3846
45,000 * 0.3571
50,000 * 0.3333
55,000 * 0.3125
60,000 * 0.2941
65,000 * 0.2778
70,000 * 0.2632
75,000 * 0.2500
80,000 * 0.2381
85,000 * 0.2273
90,000 * 0.2174
95,000 * 0.2083
100,000 * 0.2000
what i mean, is that if all the new gear is supposed to have the same number of points on it, how does the type of gear affect it ? Is there now no difference between cloth armour and plate armour?
does a terry robe with 500 defense now give the same as admantium really great shield 500 defense?
do we have, for lack of a better dnd reference, simple, martial and exotic weapons that declare base damage and various classes can use these weapons ? I believe instead the current situation is each class has it's own individual equipment weapon type with each class getting balanced separately.
doesn't this make it hard to balance all the classes together since you now have to do a separate work pass on each class rather than: lets work on the light damage users and the heavy weapon users and than adjust magic afterwards to balance everything out so they have equal time to shine.
why is all our gear on equipment to begin with and we dont have base stat that go up every time we level ? we then equip our gear to increase our build.
i'm just asking all this to get an understanding of where we are, and how the stats in the game relate to the pnp so i can make more informed feedback to the rule changes.
thanks a bunch.
And Warlocks turning round and saying, "We've got an Italian Sports car... look."
And there's a Fiat 124 parked there.
The Fiat may be a perfectly good car. It may even be far more practical in day to day use than the prancing horse or the Lambo. But when you're looking to make a statement...
with your Ferrari or a Lambo.
Anyway, back on topic, I hope you guys are not testing full future endgame chars only: for 99% of the playerbase out there, that won't be achievable the day MOD16 is released. With few exceptions, most will experience fully developed chars in 6 months or more... There are 2 implications:
1) both new and old content must be enjoyable with current equip (plus some easily obtained upgrades);
2) there's little point in testing endgame chars in MOD16 if you're not going to have one before MOD17, since conditions will be different by then anyway.
After playing a bit of each tank i notice that when blocking i lose agro even for some agressive pets, it made me think, isnt possible to make all tanks to build threat from Blocked damage ?
This would solve the Paladin and Barbarian loosing threat when blocking (also Fighters on Dig.)
I belive is not easy to make (maybe impossible) but i may be wrong, and if possible it may solve a lot of threat problems we are facing atm...
(Again sorry for any mistakes, english is not my native language)
normal
bug
Right now companion influence isn't showing on the companion window (we are investigating that issue), but should be applying properly and therefore passing off the ratings to the player.
Enchantments were giving too much companion influence in comparison to the other types of stats you could get for the same item level, those have been adjusted down for the next update, but even with that change top end enemy ratings are probably too low.
If those gains aren't from companion influence we will have to investigate further.
We are still adjusting ratings of critters and other aspects of the game as we gather feedback.
1. The old stats meant different things for different characters added some D&D flavor. By allowing some selection they also gave a feeling of ownership of your character at creation. I do miss this.
2. Wisdom is a horrible stat in the new system especially for clerics. AP gain should be modified by Wisdom rather than Con because Con is already has HP gain. Other options would be splitting magical damage into arcane driven by INT and Divine driven by WIS.
I put a Recondite runestone in a piece of companion equipment, but the highest one I had was R9...fine. When I am not downscaled, the R14 stone gives 580 (Power) and the R9 one gives 300 (Accuracy). Nowever, when downscaled to L70 they both give the same amount (like 120 in this example)
Second strange thing is that when I get sownscaled, my stats are very different depending on which Zone I am in, and sometimes the numbers are just weird. For example, in the Underdark I get downscaled to L70 and my stats there are not only lower than in other L70 Zones, like RD, IWD or Chult, but also actually lower than in Sharandar, where I get downscaled to L64. This makes no sense.
As far as the Underdark/Sharandar, that would be an issue with where Underdark was set. Chult, Ravenloft, Dreadring don't all scale to the same place even though they are all level 70. Chult is meant to be a more powerful area than Dreadring, so the scaling allows a higher level of items in Chult than it does in Dreadring.
Defense without a companion 12148
Defense with a companion 3r14=204%
Companion stat bonus 11%
Defense from Tiger 4288
Defense when calling that companion 26984
-----------------------------------------
Bonus stat 14836/4288 -> 346% buff
estimated buff 3x68%+11% or x 11% not sure about that
first way it should be 215%-> 2.15x4288+12148=21367
second way it should be 226,4%->2.264x4288+12148=21856
Defense after 5 stacks of Companions Protectors Camradie 27984 (+5x200)