Random Queue iLv vs General Dungeon iLv

rustyroo13

Okay, so my husband and I decide to PUG an intermediate random. We get Shores of Tuern, and figure no big deal. We've both run it before, so we know what to expect. I'm running my 13k HR and he's running his nearly 11k GF. We quickly survey the party, and we have another HR, a SW, and a DC. Pretty nice blend, if you ask me.

Well, everyone except my husband and I wipe, almost immediately. We stay as long as we can, but the boss and his drakes (because they did not get taken care of to begin with) are on us and we can't lock it down, so we wipe. No big deal, and we go again. This happens four more times, almost exactly the same way. After the fifth wipe, I start inspecting the other toons to see if they were AD farmers or if they were properly geared players, which they all were. The main thing I noticed was that the other iLv were just a little over 7500k, yet the random intermediates call for a 9k requirement. I asked them how they were able to queue for an intermediate random, and they told me they were all queued up for the regular SoT dungeon and did not go through the random queues. So, the game threw us all together. They informed me that they do this particular dungeon all the time and have never wiped, but for this night the drakes were wiping them almost immediately. We had to end up abandoning the random because there was no way my HR and my husband's GF could kill the boss and his drakes on our own. On the last try the two of us managed to get the drakes down, and we got the boss down half way but that took a lot stones of health, skirting around, and more stress than was necessary.

My wondering is this: does the random intermediates scale to the higher iLvs, or is it stationary? And if it is stationary, why have a different iLv than the regular dungeon iLv of the same dungeon? Nearly every time we go into a random intermediate, the game throws us together with players who have selected a dungeon from the regular queue and it's almost always a problem. Obviously when the party is 9k and above, it's much more manageable, but when over half the party is not there is always a huge chance of wiping. If this is a problem, why is the game throwing the two iLv requirements together? More times than not it makes for a frustrating experience for everyone involved. I don't blame the players at all, for this is a game mechanic that I don't really understand.

Any comments or insights appreciated!

plasticbat

That dungeon has lower item level requirement.
Other dungeons have higher item level requirement.
To do RQ, you need to fulfill the highest item level requirement of all the dungeons of that RQ.

lldt

rustyroo13#1749 said:

My wondering is this: does the random intermediates scale to the higher iLvs, or is it stationary? And if it is stationary, why have a different iLv than the regular dungeon iLv of the same dungeon?

I'm pretty sure it does not scale. They succeeded before because there is a high chance to be paired up with much higher ilvl players that can easily carry the whole party.

In your case, your husband would have to mount up and charge in, grab aggro and point boss away from group. You being highest dps would have to take those drakes down quick. These other players, with their low ilvl, are not going to be of any help.

As to why the system throws teams together like this: you're right, it is an imperfect system. Most of the time you get by because of 1 or 2 strong players. Other times, you just have to abandon. This is actually rare for intermediate queue, but quite likely in advanced because you usually get FBI with low ilvl players.

rustyroo13

Okay, but then why not set the iLv for 7500k for random intermediates than 9k? I don't know, the whole thing just does not make sense..

plasticbat said:

That dungeon has lower item level requirement.

Other dungeons have higher item level requirement.
To do RQ, you need to fulfill the highest item level requirement of all the dungeons of that RQ.

greywynd

Queuing directly you only need to meet the requirements of that dungeon. Queuing randomly you need to be able to do everything in that tier.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

plasticbat

rustyroo13#1749 said:

Okay, but then why not set the iLv for 7500k for random intermediates than 9k? I don't know, the whole thing just does not make sense..

plasticbat said:

That dungeon has lower item level requirement.

Other dungeons have higher item level requirement.
To do RQ, you need to fulfill the highest item level requirement of all the dungeons of that RQ.

Dungeon A needs item level X.
Dungeon B needs item level Y.
Dungeon C needs item level Z.

RQ W includes Dungeon A, B and C.

To do RQ W, you need to have item level higher than or equal to the max of X, Y, Z because the game can put you to dungeon A, B or C.

rustyroo13

lldt said:

rustyroo13#1749 said:

My wondering is this: does the random intermediates scale to the higher iLvs, or is it stationary? And if it is stationary, why have a different iLv than the regular dungeon iLv of the same dungeon?

I'm pretty sure it does not scale. They succeeded before because there is a high chance to be paired up with much higher ilvl players that can easily carry the whole party.

In your case, your husband would have to mount up and charge in, grab aggro and point boss away from group. You being highest dps would have to take those drakes down quick. These other players, with their low ilvl, are not going to be of any help.

The higher carrying of the other players makes sense, and I had not thought of that. I don't think they had either, because they were pretty insistent that they could do it. My husband did what you suggested, which is why only the two of us were able to stay in each time as long as we did. Alas, we couldn't do it in the end just the two of us! LOL

rustyroo13

greywynd said:

Queuing directly you only need to meet the requirements of that dungeon. Queuing randomly you need to be able to do everything in that tier.

It makes sense on paper, but in application it sucks. And on a side note, if SoT really is a 7500k dungeon, our team should have had no problem with it, but it was just a mess. I don't blame anyone, it's just the way it was.

kiraskytower

Random queues are really just a way to "fill in" other queues so they all pop. So if 3 8K players queue for Shores of Tuern and 2 12K players queue for the random queue which includes Tuern, it will group them together. Thus you have people in what appears to you to be a Random Queue that are below the level to get into the Random Queue.

This is both a good thing and a bad thing. It's good because it keeps the queues moving. It's bad because usually the item level required for most dungeons is far below what is actually needed to complete them, so you end up with players probably should not be in there in the first place.

However, Shores is completeable with a relatively low item level group if there is a decent tank present to keep the drakes from running ruffshod over the party until they can be killed. Then the tank needs to get the boss pointed away from the group and the rest of the party needs to stand directly behind him and DPS him down. Trouble is ... most people don't know the old tactics for these dungeons because these days it's far more common to have one or more 16K plus players just one shot the boss ...

rustyroo13

kiraskytower said:

Part of your trouble here is that the queue system considers Shores of Tuern a "Skirmish", so there are no role requirements. For a group that's barely over the item level (like the three you were paired with) a tank is VERY helpful if not essential for the end boss fight. Sure ... Shores is easy enough that one or two 16K+ players from the random queues can nearly one shot the boss, but if the majority of your party is half this item level or less, then the party should be using the old "Tank points the boss away while everyone else stands behind him and DPSes" tactic.

I completely agree! Believe me, we tried. LOL He tanked the best he could that boss and drakes, but I was the only DPS left almost immediately after entering the area. There was just no way the two of us could complete it. However, if we find we are in this situation again, at least we can discuss some tactics with the other players to try to get everyone on the same page before we go in there.

lldt

rustyroo13#1749 said:

I completely agree! Believe me, we tried. LOL He tanked the best he could that boss and drakes, but I was the only DPS left almost immediately after entering the area. There was just no way the two of us could complete it.

I know you are asking about queues and not strategy, but an almost 11k GF is enough. If too difficult with DPS build, then go tank build. Enforced Threat to aggro all 3, then you and GF attack same drake. Fighter's Recovery or Villain's Menace for dailies and slot Steel Defense if survival is an issue. If stamina depletion is the problem, slot Shield Talent. Enhanced Mark can be used if having problems holding aggro.

Note: GF needs to block or sidestep the breath attack from boss. The hand attack will hurt, so should block that too.

rustyroo13

lldt said:

rustyroo13#1749 said:

I completely agree! Believe me, we tried. LOL He tanked the best he could that boss and drakes, but I was the only DPS left almost immediately after entering the area. There was just no way the two of us could complete it.

I know you are asking about queues and not strategy, but an almost 11k GF is enough. If too difficult with DPS build, then go tank build. Enforced Threat to aggro all 3, then you and GF attack same drake. Fighter's Recovery or Villain's Menace for dailies and slot Steel Defense if survival is an issue. If stamina depletion is the problem, slot Shield Talent. Enhanced Mark can be used if having problems holding aggro.

Note: GF needs to block or sidestep the breath attack from boss. The hand attack will hurt, so should block that too.

Thank you for the recommendations! If we ever find ourselves in that situation again, we will definitely give that a try.:)