Fully agree with everyone here, increase difficulty of dungeons/skirmishes/trials by a factor of x3 so that everyone needs to be 18k gs to complete it, because it's too easy and can be done even by a blindfolded toddler. Also increase level cap from 70 to 80 , bring back the hourly vigilance quests and the 8k daily astral diamonds refining cap. Finally double the time it takes to complete the various campaigns because one, two or more months of completion time is too fast and reduce the drop rate of refinement items by half, because they drop like candy. When you do all this and everything else "hardcore" players ask for then please make a public statement of how many players are left in the game because i'm curious to see how many masochists play it. If there are any left you can then turn Neverwinter into a subscription based model ,because if anyone can put up with all that, then they've proven their dedication and will pay for anything.
Great post. NWN could be the next Wildstar if the devs listened to OP's advice.
I have seen some posts on the forums and in game asking why tier 3 content especially fbi and msp are so hard. Some are even calling for nerfs. I fall into the opposite camp. I want harder content. Fbi and msp can be done in a party of 2 without scrolls if the tank and dps are high geared and exped. I have long thought the gear needs balancing in relation to the dungeon content. In other mmo games most end game cant be done except with an optimal party and end game gear. This has not been the case for Neverwinter the last 2 mods. I have cleared end game on a sub geared pally almost from unlock. So i guess my main point is I would like to see some more dungeons made like fbi or msp. Mech intensive (well sort of). For me their needs to be harder content or the gear should be lowered.
The dungeon's are fine as is...
You have to realize they require content across a wide range of skill & item levels - players who rush to max item level should try spending a little more time helping junior players in their guild or alliance.
Or perhaps TRY starting a guild of their own! Since you won't miss higher guild boons cause the content was too easy anyways, then focus more of your time building a great guild you can call your own.
1
adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
What I would love to see is a system similar to what we got in the Barovia hunts. That is, there is a "base" difficulty, but the participants can select to increase the difficulty, with a corresponding increase in the reward level. Just imagine being able to make all ememies twice as hard and do double damage ... but you would get double rewards at the end.
I have cleared end game on a sub geared pally almost from unlock
You should roll a GF for more challenge. I've seen many 15/16K GFs struggle on last boss in ToNG. After many tries they give up and leave. Then a 13K OP comes in and it's a done deal on first try. OP = ez-tank mode
AGreed - I am no expert Tank GF but really I find it very challenging to tank on a GF. GF doenst feel that tanky to me.
Nothing is stoping us... in fact we are already doing that. Me and some players in my guild run stuff quite regularly without gear/pets etc just to make it interesting. But it kinda makes the hole Gear progression pointless, so id prever it if there would be some dungeons where u need to optimize your eqip and playstile instead of stripping naked to get a challange.
On some of my characters, I have the armor swap out with my alternate build. This is the best method to change out your difficulty or make your experience unique. I already talked about why they cannot do what people are asking here on another thread. So I don't repeat myself...
I have cleared end game on a sub geared pally almost from unlock
You should roll a GF for more challenge. I've seen many 15/16K GFs struggle on last boss in ToNG. After many tries they give up and leave. Then a 13K OP comes in and it's a done deal on first try. OP = ez-tank mode
Because the classes are so lopsided and askew, my GWF has very little issue getting injured. I don't even use VIP, but traps mean nothing to me. Disabling traps is the TR signature, but my TR doesn't get to do this anymore with VIP in the mix. Should they fix the VIP too? Maybe.
If the posters who are saying this, want nerfs passed around, that is how they make this game more difficult. It is MORE work and money for them to get a team of people to repair the dungeons (some still missing since module 6) than it is just to debuff 8 classes. The last time they took the dungeons offline they were gone for over a year.
*sighs* Is it just me or are these arguments starting to sound like the Tough Love/Soft Love commercials from Halls? This is like the third or fourth thread covering the topic of dungeon difficulty. Can we combine all these threads into one, please?
So many players in such a rush to max level, "buy" great gear, enchantments, companions and mounts whether by either spending real world currency or grinding AD content, then complain things are "too easy"... forgive my total lack of sympathy, this is absolutely a situation of your own making ~
Also let us not forget there's a guy in Seven Suns Market that stands there every day saying: "Too epic? I can help with that.", perhaps stop in and have a chat with him...
Better yet as some have already suggested roll a new character - resist the temptation to "buy" anything, don't be too quick to assign boons and leave the epic and legendary companions and mounts out of your inventory. Just use the gear your character picks up along the way to make things more of a challenge.
Players running a too epic character already know what it's like pushing a juggernaut through Neverwinter, perhaps it is time they remind themselves how the majority of other players have to play... I can almost guarantee no one will be complaining about things being "too easy" - some may complain they are bored with running content they already completed with their juggernauts, but the only cure for that is to wait for new content - or find a new game.
I would suggest to some of the too epic players bored with current content to take a new or lower level player under their wing and help that player level up their character, show them the best way to conquer different dungeons and quest areas, help them get better gear, companions and mounts for themselves - be a mentor, even if they aren't in your guild and there is no personal benefit to the mentor from tutoring other players... but then I'm trying to stay realistic here and from what I understand something like that very rarely happens... used to, but not so much anymore.
To any player saying the dungeons are "too easy" then what is stopping you from taking off your armor or swapping out your weapons to make it more of a challenge? If I run Cloak Tower all purple armor and an orange companion and mount, I am going to walk all over the top of that dungeon. If I swap my armor out for common and jump in as 3K, it won't be so simple. I submit YOU are in control of the difficulty of anything you do within the game.
My pally is 14k and my warlock is 15.7k. For anyone who says one needs to be 18k to end game its laughable. ....
So stop laughing and run a 9K through. You can get into a 13K then drop your item level as low as you like.
This is like dumbing down the education system so everyone passes with 90%+ and then telling people who are intelligent and want to be challenged to "just behave as if they are mentally impaired in order to have some difficulty." If you apply your "solution" to any real world situation you will see just how illogical it seems.
This is like dumbing down the education system so everyone passes with 90%+ and then telling people who are intelligent and want to be challenged to "just behave as if they are mentally impaired in order to have some difficulty." If you apply your "solution" to any real world situation you will see just how illogical it seems.
It's telling intelligent people to make their own challenges, which is exactly what happens in real life, if they want to be challenged. And humanity progresses further.
2
thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
This is like dumbing down the education system so everyone passes with 90%+ and then telling people who are intelligent and want to be challenged to "just behave as if they are mentally impaired in order to have some difficulty." If you apply your "solution" to any real world situation you will see just how illogical it seems.
It's telling intelligent people to make their own challenges, which is exactly what happens in real life, if they want to be challenged. And humanity progresses further.
In real life you don't dumb yourself down to a much lower level to find some challenge, you find something which is appropriately challenging for you, at whatever level you are already operating at.
@thefabricant...what u compare is illogical as well...the OP want nothing but feed his elitism as this game has always been since the beginning and Cryptic always listen to the 1%...I for example filled my ignore list with ppl which demanded exp already in the 2. week after Ravenloft was out.
For me its invested time vs reward that should bring dungeons / random ques in line
In real life you don't dumb yourself down to a much lower level to find some challenge, you find something which is appropriately challenging for you, at whatever level you are already operating at.
You see using wooden weapon and no armor as "dumbing down". I see it as finding something appropiately challenging. When you compare having low IL to being dumb, no wonder people call you sitting on ivory tower.
2
minotaur2857Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,141Arc User
I have seen some posts on the forums and in game asking why tier 3 content especially fbi and msp are so hard. Some are even calling for nerfs. I fall into the opposite camp. I want harder content. Fbi and msp can be done in a party of 2 without scrolls if the tank and dps are high geared and exped. I have long thought the gear needs balancing in relation to the dungeon content. In other mmo games most end game cant be done except with an optimal party and end game gear. This has not been the case for Neverwinter the last 2 mods. I have cleared end game on a sub geared pally almost from unlock. So i guess my main point is I would like to see some more dungeons made like fbi or msp. Mech intensive (well sort of). For me their needs to be harder content or the gear should be lowered.
There needs to be a baseline difficulty that is not that difficult. Do you really want to exclude the members of your playerbase that play in far flung parts of the world with terrible pings from doing endgame content ? You may do but it makes no commercial sense for Cryptic to do so. Also for me, FBI is buggy as hell (any giant in SKT, the red patches on the ground bear almost no resemblance to where and when the rocks get thrown), and these bugs become impossible for me to cope with as the dungeons get harder.
I like the idea of using something similar to Barovian hunt mechanics to make them more difficult for extra rewards, in fact I suggested something similar as was done in CoH an old Cryptic game (although was instituted after Cryptic sold it).
Also with the current issues of the dungeons being difficult enough that people want particular party compositions and decent IL it's very difficult to get a group with a 15K DPS, if they were more difficult it would be impossible. After having retired 2 characters because their whole playstyle got nerfed and I played that playstyle because I didn't enjoy the alternatives, I won't invest in a single 18K main, I have a load of 14K chars instead, this more or less disqualifies me from dungeon content in pickups as I mainly play DPS.
This is like dumbing down the education system so everyone passes with 90%+ and then telling people who are intelligent and want to be challenged to "just behave as if they are mentally impaired in order to have some difficulty." If you apply your "solution" to any real world situation you will see just how illogical it seems.
It's telling intelligent people to make their own challenges, which is exactly what happens in real life, if they want to be challenged. And humanity progresses further.
In real life you don't dumb yourself down to a much lower level to find some challenge, you find something which is appropriately challenging for you, at whatever level you are already operating at.
I agree with the point that you don't dumb yourself in a real life. And I agree with argument to take off your armor being really bad one.
But...
When I found my previous job not challenging anymore, I changed my job to progress with my career. In a real life you can freely change your job and even rebrand yourself from shopkeeper to software developer. That's what challenging yourself is. If you stay with the same job, knowing it's dragging you down - then you are not capable of taking important decisions and therefore not as smart as you think you are.
I knew lots of people with great potential who decided to stay at my previous job. They're unhappy, unfulfilled and stuck in their lifepath, cause they were lacking the courage to take the step further.
> Also with the current issues of the dungeons being difficult enough that people want particular party compositions and decent IL it's very difficult to get a group with a 15K DPS, if they were more difficult it would be impossible. After having retired 2 characters because their whole playstyle got nerfed and I played that playstyle because I didn't enjoy the alternatives, I won't invest in a single 18K main, I have a load of 14K chars instead, this more or less disqualifies me from dungeon content in pickups as I mainly play DPS.
you can do the dungeon with 14k as main dps with randoms from the enclave around the same item lvl but you do have to learn how your class is the most effectiv
To any player saying the dungeons are "too easy" then what is stopping you from taking off your armor or swapping out your weapons to make it more of a challenge? If I run Cloak Tower all purple armor and an orange companion and mount, I am going to walk all over the top of that dungeon. If I swap my armor out for common and jump in as 3K, it won't be so simple. I submit YOU are in control of the difficulty of anything you do within the game.
My pally is 14k and my warlock is 15.7k. For anyone who says one needs to be 18k to end game its laughable. ....
So stop laughing and run a 9K through. You can get into a 13K then drop your item level as low as you like.
This is like dumbing down the education system so everyone passes with 90%+ and then telling people who are intelligent and want to be challenged to "just behave as if they are mentally impaired in order to have some difficulty." If you apply your "solution" to any real world situation you will see just how illogical it seems.
Actually it seems to me your “logic” may be a bit flawed...
Dumbing down the education system or comparatively the game content makes things easier...
Decreasing or "dumbing down" a character's gear and enhancement level makes whatever content we're talking about harder, hence more challenging.
Now I can understand players being unwilling to divest themselves of their, in many cases their hard earned gear but any player who finds content too easy can always decrease their abilities or their gear to make whatever they’re doing more difficult – complaining that things are too easy – yet not being willing to “dumb down” their character just seems counter productive to me.
As has already been suggested; If a player wants more difficult content, run it with a less powerful character – if a person doesn’t want to make their character less powerful – stop running less challenging content.
But for one to complain about things being too easy when there is a readily available solution - but they are unwilling make the changes that are available to them and instead seems to want others to make changes to accommodate them, that seems illogical to me.
1
minotaur2857Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,141Arc User
> Also with the current issues of the dungeons being difficult enough that people want particular party compositions and decent IL it's very difficult to get a group with a 15K DPS, if they were more difficult it would be impossible. After having retired 2 characters because their whole playstyle got nerfed and I played that playstyle because I didn't enjoy the alternatives, I won't invest in a single 18K main, I have a load of 14K chars instead, this more or less disqualifies me from dungeon content in pickups as I mainly play DPS.
you can do the dungeon with 14k as main dps with randoms from the enclave around the same item lvl but you do have to learn how your class is the most effectiv
Yes but you know as well as I do that in practice you're in for a couple of hours of hell if you eventually succeed afrter a long wait (the equal IL tanks and clerics will have been hoovered up by better geared teams, so you'll get lower), I really can't be bothered.
0
kreatyveMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 10,545Community Moderator
This thread has ran it's course.
My opinions are my own. I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. - Forum Rules - Protector's Enclave Discord - I play on Xbox Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official. Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
Comments
You have to realize they require content across a wide range of skill & item levels - players who rush to max item level should try spending a little more time helping junior players in their guild or alliance.
Or perhaps TRY starting a guild of their own! Since you won't miss higher guild boons cause the content was too easy anyways, then focus more of your time building a great guild you can call your own.
What I would love to see is a system similar to what we got in the Barovia hunts. That is, there is a "base" difficulty, but the participants can select to increase the difficulty, with a corresponding increase in the reward level. Just imagine being able to make all ememies twice as hard and do double damage ... but you would get double rewards at the end.
If the posters who are saying this, want nerfs passed around, that is how they make this game more difficult. It is MORE work and money for them to get a team of people to repair the dungeons (some still missing since module 6) than it is just to debuff 8 classes. The last time they took the dungeons offline they were gone for over a year.
House Miliskeera in exile (NW)
Sereska Miliskeera, Lvl 70 OP - Devotion (Just.)/Protection (Just.)
Shizlee Miliskeera, Lvl 70 DC - Divine Oracle (Right.)/Anoited Champion (Faith.)
Finithey Miliskeera, Lvl 70 HR - Stormwarden (Combat)/Pathfinder (Trapper)
Maya Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 CW - Spellstorm
Irae Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 TR - Master Inflitrator
Member - Houseclan t'Charvon (STO)
Shiarrael e'Tal'Aura t'Charvon, LvL 60, Rom Sci
S'aana ir'Virinat t'Charvon, Lvl 60, Rom Eng
T'Lyra, LvL 60, Fed, Vul Sci
Ta'el, Lvl 60, Rom Tac
Also let us not forget there's a guy in Seven Suns Market that stands there every day saying: "Too epic? I can help with that.", perhaps stop in and have a chat with him...
Better yet as some have already suggested roll a new character - resist the temptation to "buy" anything, don't be too quick to assign boons and leave the epic and legendary companions and mounts out of your inventory. Just use the gear your character picks up along the way to make things more of a challenge.
Players running a too epic character already know what it's like pushing a juggernaut through Neverwinter, perhaps it is time they remind themselves how the majority of other players have to play... I can almost guarantee no one will be complaining about things being "too easy" - some may complain they are bored with running content they already completed with their juggernauts, but the only cure for that is to wait for new content - or find a new game.
I would suggest to some of the too epic players bored with current content to take a new or lower level player under their wing and help that player level up their character, show them the best way to conquer different dungeons and quest areas, help them get better gear, companions and mounts for themselves - be a mentor, even if they aren't in your guild and there is no personal benefit to the mentor from tutoring other players... but then I'm trying to stay realistic here and from what I understand something like that very rarely happens... used to, but not so much anymore.
For me its invested time vs reward that should bring dungeons / random ques in line
When you compare having low IL to being dumb, no wonder people call you sitting on ivory tower.
I like the idea of using something similar to Barovian hunt mechanics to make them more difficult for extra rewards, in fact I suggested something similar as was done in CoH an old Cryptic game (although was instituted after Cryptic sold it).
Also with the current issues of the dungeons being difficult enough that people want particular party compositions and decent IL it's very difficult to get a group with a 15K DPS, if they were more difficult it would be impossible. After having retired 2 characters because their whole playstyle got nerfed and I played that playstyle because I didn't enjoy the alternatives, I won't invest in a single 18K main, I have a load of 14K chars instead, this more or less disqualifies me from dungeon content in pickups as I mainly play DPS.
But...
When I found my previous job not challenging anymore, I changed my job to progress with my career. In a real life you can freely change your job and even rebrand yourself from shopkeeper to software developer. That's what challenging yourself is. If you stay with the same job, knowing it's dragging you down - then you are not capable of taking important decisions and therefore not as smart as you think you are.
I knew lots of people with great potential who decided to stay at my previous job. They're unhappy, unfulfilled and stuck in their lifepath, cause they were lacking the courage to take the step further.
That's how life works guys.
> Also with the current issues of the dungeons being difficult enough that people want particular party compositions and decent IL it's very difficult to get a group with a 15K DPS, if they were more difficult it would be impossible. After having retired 2 characters because their whole playstyle got nerfed and I played that playstyle because I didn't enjoy the alternatives, I won't invest in a single 18K main, I have a load of 14K chars instead, this more or less disqualifies me from dungeon content in pickups as I mainly play DPS.
you can do the dungeon with 14k as main dps with randoms from the enclave around the same item lvl but you do have to learn how your class is the most effectiv
Dumbing down the education system or comparatively the game content makes things easier...
Decreasing or "dumbing down" a character's gear and enhancement level makes whatever content we're talking about harder, hence more challenging.
Now I can understand players being unwilling to divest themselves of their, in many cases their hard earned gear but any player who finds content too easy can always decrease their abilities or their gear to make whatever they’re doing more difficult – complaining that things are too easy – yet not being willing to “dumb down” their character just seems counter productive to me.
As has already been suggested; If a player wants more difficult content, run it with a less powerful character – if a person doesn’t want to make their character less powerful – stop running less challenging content.
But for one to complain about things being too easy when there is a readily available solution - but they are unwilling make the changes that are available to them and instead seems to want others to make changes to accommodate them, that seems illogical to me.
Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official.
Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!