At 18k, a gwf is a natural born solo contenter, so he should never have a hard time doing this. If he has troubles with trash mobs solo, he's clearly bellow average.
Well well well...maybe you should try FBI solo with an 18 k GWF and see if this is so easy for him. Share your experiences with us after you made it. Thx
> @mentinmindmaker said: > In my experience, trying to CC that orc to avoid summoning his friends, has only worked once. The rest of the time, people either aggro everything either unintentionally or intentionally, or the orc has so much control resist compared to what most players now equip, that the orc breaks free and warns his friends anyway. > > > Don't CC him, but let him run.. and you yourself run back down to previous plateau. Easier to fight with some room, need to be able to dodge the rocks. > > He should bring just his friends and leave the others up there. > > But don't fight up where he stands, you will aggro the roamer that also got friends etc. > > Need a group with some discipline that will let the tank manage pulling and not bum rush. > > That is one thing really missing in NW. NWians are not used to hard content where doing proper pulling and tactics is required, so in particular up-and-coming players have no discipline at all. I'll congratulate Cryptic on making the FBI Ascent really, finally an area where bum rush will get you killed. There if something of the same in MSP where encounters spawn from player proximity and can be avoided. We need more of these areas where smart pulling and moving makes a difference. > > I used to play this other mmorpg, and they had: > * If you messed up pulls, even on trash, the group had a good chance of wiping -> group discipline > * 'Active' and 'passive' aggro.. if you pulled by proximity aggro you got 'passive' aggro where the mobs would not yell for help and bring only their group. If you pulled by attacking you got 'active' aggro and the mobs would yell for help and bring everything in range. > > The devs could configure proximity aggro ranges and yell aggro ranges to make interesting scenarios. Pulling was a great minigame by itself.
> @mentinmindmaker said: > In my experience, trying to CC that orc to avoid summoning his friends, has only worked once. The rest of the time, people either aggro everything either unintentionally or intentionally, or the orc has so much control resist compared to what most players now equip, that the orc breaks free and warns his friends anyway. > > > Don't CC him, but let him run.. and you yourself run back down to previous plateau. Easier to fight with some room, need to be able to dodge the rocks. > > He should bring just his friends and leave the others up there. > > But don't fight up where he stands, you will aggro the roamer that also got friends etc. > > Need a group with some discipline that will let the tank manage pulling and not bum rush. > > That is one thing really missing in NW. NWians are not used to hard content where doing proper pulling and tactics is required, so in particular up-and-coming players have no discipline at all. I'll congratulate Cryptic on making the FBI Ascent really, finally an area where bum rush will get you killed. There if something of the same in MSP where encounters spawn from player proximity and can be avoided. We need more of these areas where smart pulling and moving makes a difference. > > I used to play this other mmorpg, and they had: > * If you messed up pulls, even on trash, the group had a good chance of wiping -> group discipline > * 'Active' and 'passive' aggro.. if you pulled by proximity aggro you got 'passive' aggro where the mobs would not yell for help and bring only their group. If you pulled by attacking you got 'active' aggro and the mobs would yell for help and bring everything in range. > > The devs could configure proximity aggro ranges and yell aggro ranges to make interesting scenarios. Pulling was a great minigame by itself.
So much this!!! Also, WTB /Assist It would help so many things with this game..
So really dunno why i should be an "OP Player" if i never stated i will do this solo. Makes no sense, dont you think? Plz dont try to derail this thread. If you have something to say to me about my forum behavior, use the PM system. Thx
I think the hill can be left alone. If a group can't work something out to get up the hill, they have little chance at the final boss. If they nerf the hill, then they should nerf the final boss also.
Well, you saw the video I posted. It took 10 minutes to kill 3 giants, 3 orcs and 1 bear.
I soloed the uphill and I'm not even a tank. There was an HR that soloed entire FBI it a few years ago.
Stop whining.
That kind of comment is irrelevant to the question I asked. Please watch the video that I posted. You can't tell me that the team didn't struggle with the hill climb. Why should this portion of the dungeon be this difficult, at this point in the evolution of the game, when the dungeon does not even drop endgame gear and is not necessary for character progression at all?
In my opinion, the problem is not with the difficulty of FBI - that is just about right.
The problem is with the players who queue up for it without being ready for it - people should really run any content a few times with a "proper" group before queueing up for a "random" run that includes that content.
I personally believe that for dungeons that are farming dungeons, that are years out of date, that don't drop endgame gear, that are no longer necessary for character progression, that they should be accessible even for random teams. What is the justification otherwise?
In your video, the team was standing a lot in the red areas which caused one-hits more than it needed. You could have use shift ability to CC effects, you have to pay attention to Combat advantage which you ignored and the damage you took was increased.
Not sure if DC was debuffing, hard to tell for me, maybe some DC experts can provide more information. Recently i had a dc who was only using atwill every 15 seconds or so, we cant blame FBI for that.
The TR in your group simply didnt bother to try, was standing at campfire while he could have at least controlled the orcs and bears and CB one giant to make it easier for you.
Hill climb in FBI is the first bump in the road to see if the players know what they do with their classes and if they are willing to learn and work as a team. Class guides are out there, available for everyone but many expect to steamroll the content and then get surprised by the hill climb.
> @chemjeff said: > In my opinion, the problem is not with the difficulty of FBI - that is just about right. > > The problem is with the players who queue up for it without being ready for it - people should really run any content a few times with a "proper" group before queueing up for a "random" run that includes that content. > > I personally believe that for dungeons that are farming dungeons, that are years out of date, that don't drop endgame gear, that are no longer necessary for character progression, that they should be accessible even for random teams. What is the justification otherwise?
Because it’s a bit of a travesty they have gotten this far without learning to play and function as a team. For this, the blame is shared with Cryptic. There are many design elements within the game which almost encourage the Pack of Hyenas, approach. This is the games greatest failing and permeates through every layer. The Hill Climb is one of those rare teaching moments when it comes to teamwork in this game and should be used accordingly.
Synergy and teamwork need to mean more than being able to time dps writhing a short window. Win, lose, or draw..that’s underwhelming game play on so many levels..
Why should this portion of the dungeon be this difficult, at this point in the evolution of the game, when the dungeon does not even drop endgame gear and is not necessary for character progression at all?
Because it's the first step into T3 dungeons. FBI is hardly a T2.5 now with all the powercreep, but the first to introduce T3 mechanics and difficulty (read as you need to think about your moves).
If you nerf FBI because it's too hard for you, then you'll want to nerf MSP, that's even harder with more complex mechanics. Then you'll want to nerf TONG, because you can't pass the dps-check Orcus and Ras Nsi souls. Then you'll want to nerf CODG because you don't master the move of the pull/push (outside of the claw bug). Etc.
CN is a joke now that Orcus' punchs do nothing and with all the powercreep, so the first resistance a random group encounter in dungeons is FBI.
My question is more: why should a group that doesn't know how to run this dungeon, or simply isn't ready for it (gear-wise) should complete it? I myself really have hard time with Stradh on CR, and didn't run it a lot. Do I call for nerf, because I can't beat it with a random queue? Hell no, because if the team isn't ready to beat it, then it shouldn't.
You're asking for even more facility, in a now semi-old dungeon that's already crippled by powercreep. As I said, FBI is the first step into the endgame, not because of its difficulty anymore, but by the introduction of mechanics that you don't find in T2.
Leave it as it is, and be careful what you wish for, especially in nerfs.
15
dread4moorMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,154Arc User
Well I decided to video my most recent experience with solo queueing for FBI on my 13k OP tank.
Apologies in advance for the low quality of the video, it is my very first video, and I evidently forgot to include the setting for sound.
The video is 19 minutes, and it is just for the hill climb portion. Our team did end up finishing the dungeon, it took about 70 minutes overall. No problems with first boss, had to do second boss twice, and had to do third boss twice.
I will freely admit that I am not a very good tank. Probably somewhere around average. But the point of the video is not to show off how awesome of a tank I have. The point is to show one example of what solo queueing for FBI is like with a typical team. Basically, each set of giants constitutes their own set of minibosses. This is the case even if only small packs of mobs are aggroed at once. You'll see one point in the video where the team managed to get two giants down to almost dead, but then the team wiped and the giants reset to full health. what is the point in having this portion of the dungeon so difficult *at this point in the evolution of the game*, particularly considering this dungeon no longer drops endgame loot and is not for character progression, just for farming?
Public props, @chemjeff . u've been in the game a long time. U contribute to the community. Respect. @adinosii has given the best answer of all.
The root cause of the problem (unsatisfying random Q FBI) is not "FBI is too hard", it is "people random/PUG q FBI who are not *ready* for 'The Hard'". People should not enter an advanced dungeon without any knowledge , experience or at least "homework". 5 minutes on The NW Forum FBI Guide, YouTube FBI Guides or... that "UNwelcome" site will explain the mechanics easily. But no, they want to run it NOWNOWNOW and are pissed off when you, @chemjeff , don't carry them death-free.
And now, the awkward moment. I watched that video, @chemjeff ... twice just to give you benefit of the doubt. The first 5/10 deaths you were standing in the red. Yes, I counted. Twice. 3/10 deaths you got charge-proned before a one-hit.
With respect, that is... not the... *best*... example of tanking strategy on the hill climb.
I stand by my earlier "one-third agreement" comment. I do think (for Random Q) the hill climb could ease up on ther one-hits.
But I would not use this video to help that argument. Anyway, we can agree to disagree. Thanks for an interesting discussion.
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
NOT ME, NOT MY VIDEO. Tried to search youtube for "solo fbi", this turned up. This guy can solo a few giants and a bear, no reason a party can't do it.
Come here my little children, sit down near the fireside, have an nice warm cup of chocolate and some cookies and let me tell you the fairy tale of Bob and Shelley (i liked it when you introduced Bob in one of your posts @asterotg ).
Bob and Shelley starts their adventure in Neverwinter, they had alot of fun leveling up their chars, even if they didn't know each other (tbh i introduced Shelley only bc i don't want to assume any gender), but everytime they entered the Protectors Enclave they heard about smth suspicious called "AD"..."ZEN"..."VIP"...and when they asked about it an friendly Adventurer responded that they will need later on so much Ad, and Zen and Stuff, bc the endcontent is so hard.
Bob and Shelley were very disappointed, because they had not much Ad and zero Zen, so they decided to ask the magic Mirror "Reddit":
"Reddit Reddit on the wall, i need Ad and i want it all!!!111ELEVEN"
And the Mirror reddit answered:
"Remember the time, when you entered the Tower District? At the end you should go in this huge Cloak Tower with other Adventureres, you did it, but the other two was so much faster, they could hit way harder as you could....you are now Lvl 70, do the same, farm Ad, use the ZAX, buy more chars, run also with them Cloak Tower the whole day, and you become rich!!! Oh and you should buy Vip and maybe you should join a Guild."
So Bob and Shelley did what the Mirror said, they were running Cloak Tower day for day...week for week...they made alot of Ad, they were using the Zay, bought new chars, invoked them to lvl 70, starts also with them running Cloak Tower, day for day...week for week, and if one of the fellow Adventureres are ranting why there are running so far ahead of him, bc he is the first time in...they insulted him what an Noob he is, and how dare he wasting Bobs and Shelleys precious playing time.
So time went on, and Bob and Shelley remebered, that the Mirror also said, that they should join an guild, bc guild ist gut. So they asked in the Enclave, if someone is looking for new Guildmembers, and an friendly Adventurer pm'ed them:
"Sure we are still looking for new Members, we are builduing up our Stronghold, we had no rules, but it would be nice if you could farm a little bit influence, and we need some campaign stuff, sometimes we organized a Pvp match, bc of the conquerer shards..but we run also alot of stuff like Cn, Fbi, TonG, cradle. But tbh if i inspec your char, well maybe we could improve it a little bit, but this is not a big deal, if you join us, we can do that."
But Bob and Shelley were totally shocked, how dare this guy insulting his/her precious Char, they have spend soo much time that the char looked nice, or brave, or allmighty... And then also this stupid insisting of farming stuff for an Guild...Bob and Shelley had no time doing stuff like this, for other people, they want Ad, they had no time for this, bc Bob and Shelley had enough to do running Cloak tower now with 20 chars a day!!! So they put this insulting guy on the ignore list, and bc no Member of an lvl 20 guild responded, Bob and Shelley decided not to ask anymore and they went back to farm Cloak Tower!
And then in the 5th year on the 14th Modul, the chaotic good Gods of Neverwinter, called "THE DEVS" decided, taht the gap between players like Bob and Shelley and other players are too much, so they gave them better weapons for free, some higher enchants, better seals for better gear, and Bob and Shelley were happy, bc they entered accidently some Zones like Bryn Shandar, or even this evil Jungle named Chult, and the adds there wasn't so nice to them, like the adds and bosses in the Cloak Tower. And Bob and Shelley were happy when they could leave the Zone in Bryn Shandar after they had become the gem for everfrost resistance.
But THE DEVS are also making some changes to the random q, so Bob and Shelley were qued to FBI, but this couldn't be an big deal, bc Bob and Shelley had watched so many speed run videos, so FBI couldn't be much harder than Cloak Tower....
And then Bob and Shelley were totally shocked, bc these adds were fighting back so hard, and what are these silly signs on the ground, why i am freezed or thrown away, and what is wrong with these Giants, they are constantly throwing rocks at us... This is totally unfair, this things doesn't happened in Cloak Tower!!!
So Bob and Shelley left the instance...
And the Moral of the story
Don't be Bob, don't be Shelley, join a guild even if it is not a high Guild, grow together, play together, learn from each other, play the game, have fun, even if it could be frustrating from time to time, and then you will maybe notice that alot of Dungeons are not that hard as it seems...
^ good that our Uber-mom teached us a thing or 2: we all impatient little children which started their game yesterday but want it all in no time...I promisse to improve!
Im think it will be a huge mistake if they nerf dung only for few nup. I know FBI it's stragne sometimes. I have a example from a few days ago. I wanted to do RAQ but I couldn't find anyone willing, so i go with "random" in que. I saw few ppl on second boss. I checked them, if it wasn't some nup. GWF 17k, HR and CW 15k DC 15k so I thought, it will be fast and easy. One hour later I said "enough for me". Turtle we beat something like 10 min, but last boss tragedy. HR still attack and destroy ice, CW and HR all time ran far away from me and they dont take buff. When boss imposed "red arrow" on someone, they run away solo and die. I have never seen such a weak GWF. We try kill boss 3 times and all time some of them died and returned to the fire. Only I was left on the map with my gf tank/buff and dc or cw. After one hour I gave up. I checked before leaving this GWF, i saw he use bond (but dont know rank) and U prom. I realy dont know, maybe they cant play or They bought account but it was a waste of time which I didn't expect. But i dont want nerf FBI or other dung, because easy game was boring. It doesn't make sense to change difficulty level only for nup in RAQ.
This is what I usually suspect when I see a severely under performing toon. Sadly, been seeing more and more of them.
I only queue solo. Early in mod 14, I was able to finish most FBI runs I ended up in, even a few mSP. Then as the average iLvl of the party crept up and the success rate plummeted, I've mostly given up on FBI, and completely given up on mSP. I leave RAQ as the last queue to do for the day if I have time to fish for eDemo. If I have more time and the avg iLvl is pretty high, I may stay as it might be a successful run. Or at least I get a good laugh at the epic fail.
Ah, sure sign of a newbie, one who puts as much distance between himself and the boss, and you.
Or an Archer. Get in close, do less damage.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
NOT ME, NOT MY VIDEO. Tried to search youtube for "solo fbi", this turned up. This guy can solo a few giants and a bear, no reason a party can't do it.
Published jan 27, 2018, so quite a bit of BiS gear wasn't even out yet. Fbi isn't hard, people are refusing to learn.
2 weeks ago i tested it on a 15k op and i solo'd the up hill till first boss it was slow but do able. you just have to take smaller groups.
If you ae in a weaker team then have the team wait while you pull 2-4 at a time it is slow but it is alot less painfull
There are more than BIS players in this game RIP Real Tiamat, RIP Real Demogorgon RIP real Temple of the spider. Why remove non bis content to give to bis players ???? FORCING the majority of your player base to play 4 mod old dungeons and trial will have a bad result on player base Changes are getting so bad i would rather prefer no new changes (RIP ICE FISHING in winter fest)
As someone who never plays tank, I think it needs to be made a bit easier for GF tank. Otherwise, +1 for l2p!
That's the current balance issue between GF and OP. The phrase, "OP is OP", exist for a reason. In FBI, I always see 15/16K struggle on the hill, quite often I see 11/12K OP go up like it was a walk in the park. In ToNG, I've had 15/16K GF tank and we have problems with the last boss. Then the GF tank leaves and a 13K OP arrives and we finish on the first try.
If you nerf FBI because it's too hard for you, then you'll want to nerf MSP, that's even harder with more complex mechanics. Then you'll want to nerf TONG, because you can't pass the dps-check Orcus and Ras Nsi souls. Then you'll want to nerf CODG because you don't master the move of the pull/push (outside of the claw bug). Etc.
CN is a joke now that Orcus' punchs do nothing and with all the powercreep, so the first resistance a random group encounter in dungeons is FBI.
Since M14 dropped I find that I'm regularly getting CN as a Random Intermediate Dungeon when I'm running PUGs for RAD. In other words, it's now deemed to be on par with Tiamat, in terms of difficulty level.
We 3 manned FBI the other night, a nerf is not required here! 16.5k GWF, 12.5kOP, and myself on a 16k DC. This hill was a royal HAMSTER as usual but if we 3 man'd it, other just need training and patients!
Whatever the content, it needs to be achievable by the minimum IL that it's rated for. Plenty of posts stating they have no problems with their 15k+ (insert class here), FBI isnt supposed to be for 15k. As far as the hill, I've never been in any group where they were actually "tanked", its pretty much burn them down quickly before they can hit you with a boulder, which is ok with a high IL group, but very hard to do at the minimum IL.
The hill is the only part of FBI that really needs a nerf, the other bosses are pretty much just "learn the mechanics".
The minimum IL required to enter the dungeon is just an indication of when you can enter it, doesn't mean you should automatically complete it. A team full of minimum-required IL can complete it, though they'll need to master their class and their moves a bit more than a team full of 16k. FBI (hill mostly) is absolutely not a problem IL-related, but skill-related. You can have a full team of 16k, if all team suck, well you won't pass. You can have a full team of 12k (or whatever min IL needed), if all team is skilled, you'll pass (will take longer, but that's normal).
I've never been in any group where they were actually "tanked", its pretty much burn them down quickly before they can hit you with a boulder, which is ok with a high IL group, but very hard to do at the minimum IL.
Well it's kinda supposed to be more difficult for a min-IL team than for a high-IL team, so all good here. And teams that can't burn bears and giants have to rely on a tank that can manage their aggro. It's just a different strategy based on which kind of team you have.
The hill is the only part of FBI that really needs a nerf, the other bosses are pretty much just "learn the mechanics".
I disagree, hill is kinda just a mechanic itself, that people need to learn in their journey through expert dungeons. They can choose to learn or not, but in no way should FBI's hill be nerfed now, the dungeon is too old for that. You should have asked that in Mod 10.5, would have been understandable.
As someone who never plays tank, I think it needs to be made a bit easier for GF tank. Otherwise, +1 for l2p!
That's the current balance issue between GF and OP. The phrase, "OP is OP", exist for a reason. In FBI, I always see 15/16K struggle on the hill, quite often I see 11/12K OP go up like it was a walk in the park. In ToNG, I've had 15/16K GF tank and we have problems with the last boss. Then the GF tank leaves and a 13K OP arrives and we finish on the first try.
Yup I play 15.8k GF and I struggle a lot with some tanking and balancing DPS vs survival.
Yup been playing over 2 years.
Yup I am not the best skilled player of all time but I am fairly competent.
I will go take a look at soloing the hill run first group of mobs and report back
First group of 4 orcs drawn down to the flat area by the campfire and fought them. Was quite optimistic and doing reasonably well had two down to 50% hit points then they whammoed me in like 2 seconds. My timing? Or overkill hits?
Second attempt I took down the Axe Thrower relatively easily and was fighting the other three orcs, trying to dodge move and weave and hit when I could and avoid those red areas... but again my timing for their attacks and my attacks was out. So I was still in motion and couldn't move or block when the overkill whammo hit me.
After that I tried to have a go at the Giant Beastmaster and Huge bear thing to the right of the hill. I was just one big squishy mess - the giant charges you knocking you over then throws a rock at you to kill you. Same mechanic as the giants in Cold Run [?] which can be worked through but to solo on a non DPS char would take ages?
Back to the initial orc group and I failed a few more times, but my heart wasn't really in it by now.
SO I thought I would cheer myself up with a lockbox and luckily I struck RNG gold with a Howling Adventurer's Pack!
Oh lucky me!
BUT I have to say that if I could get the timing better then my survival would last longer
It was almost fun for 20 minutes. Oh and one time it reset all weird with the Orcs high up on the cliffs/rocks hidden almost - that was fun.
[+disclaimer my keyboard skills and GF build certainly isnt perfect, my enchants may take me to iL 15.8 with all the campaign boons etc, but its an overinflated iL so don't spam me at how HAMSTER I am]
The issue is that the gap in difficulty between FBI and CN et al. is too large. The T2s are being rolled over with little to no regard to mechanics. This is especially true in the random queues where high level players are carrying lower level ones. This is made worse by the iLevel requirements for FBI and MSP were set pre-bonding nerf and its currently very easy to get lots of iLevel without getting lots of useful stats. That was always true but is more so now.
FBI is fine,it requires some classes synergy and a little bit of attention.It became completely soloable for OP and GF some months after its release. However as for tanking goes it should be in equal difficulty to both tank classes.
Example:OP shield can block Hatti big aoe,Gf is nuked 20 feet away even with his shield up.
i like the dungeon,i think in structure and in design it remains the best in game.But not in rewards. A corridor running uphill with mini bosses in separated plateau . A hard hitting boss that requires positioning . An easy link to the second boss. An evade phase inside the castle. And the final boss where you need to pay attention to the mechanics.
All bosses attacks have visible and audio cues.When you die,you know from what.You did not blocked/moved/dodged out of red. Now compare this to Castle Wipeloft. You avoid hitting first sister during the reflect phase,fine and well and then 3 secs aftermwith your shield up,no visible attack,bam sf proc.What a mess. Bosses are tiny you cannot see a trhing,DPS get into your way,DPS standing in front of bosses attacks.Disaster.
Anyway,to the topic.FBI is fine,the rewards could use a little buff though....
Comments
> In my experience, trying to CC that orc to avoid summoning his friends, has only worked once. The rest of the time, people either aggro everything either unintentionally or intentionally, or the orc has so much control resist compared to what most players now equip, that the orc breaks free and warns his friends anyway.
>
>
> Don't CC him, but let him run.. and you yourself run back down to previous plateau. Easier to fight with some room, need to be able to dodge the rocks.
>
> He should bring just his friends and leave the others up there.
>
> But don't fight up where he stands, you will aggro the roamer that also got friends etc.
>
> Need a group with some discipline that will let the tank manage pulling and not bum rush.
>
> That is one thing really missing in NW. NWians are not used to hard content where doing proper pulling and tactics is required, so in particular up-and-coming players have no discipline at all. I'll congratulate Cryptic on making the FBI Ascent really, finally an area where bum rush will get you killed. There if something of the same in MSP where encounters spawn from player proximity and can be avoided. We need more of these areas where smart pulling and moving makes a difference.
>
> I used to play this other mmorpg, and they had:
> * If you messed up pulls, even on trash, the group had a good chance of wiping -> group discipline
> * 'Active' and 'passive' aggro.. if you pulled by proximity aggro you got 'passive' aggro where the mobs would not yell for help and bring only their group. If you pulled by attacking you got 'active' aggro and the mobs would yell for help and bring everything in range.
>
> The devs could configure proximity aggro ranges and yell aggro ranges to make interesting scenarios. Pulling was a great minigame by itself.
> @mentinmindmaker said:
> In my experience, trying to CC that orc to avoid summoning his friends, has only worked once. The rest of the time, people either aggro everything either unintentionally or intentionally, or the orc has so much control resist compared to what most players now equip, that the orc breaks free and warns his friends anyway.
>
>
> Don't CC him, but let him run.. and you yourself run back down to previous plateau. Easier to fight with some room, need to be able to dodge the rocks.
>
> He should bring just his friends and leave the others up there.
>
> But don't fight up where he stands, you will aggro the roamer that also got friends etc.
>
> Need a group with some discipline that will let the tank manage pulling and not bum rush.
>
> That is one thing really missing in NW. NWians are not used to hard content where doing proper pulling and tactics is required, so in particular up-and-coming players have no discipline at all. I'll congratulate Cryptic on making the FBI Ascent really, finally an area where bum rush will get you killed. There if something of the same in MSP where encounters spawn from player proximity and can be avoided. We need more of these areas where smart pulling and moving makes a difference.
>
> I used to play this other mmorpg, and they had:
> * If you messed up pulls, even on trash, the group had a good chance of wiping -> group discipline
> * 'Active' and 'passive' aggro.. if you pulled by proximity aggro you got 'passive' aggro where the mobs would not yell for help and bring only their group. If you pulled by attacking you got 'active' aggro and the mobs would yell for help and bring everything in range.
>
> The devs could configure proximity aggro ranges and yell aggro ranges to make interesting scenarios. Pulling was a great minigame by itself.
So much this!!!
Also,
WTB /Assist
It would help so many things with this game..
Plz dont try to derail this thread. If you have something to say to me about my forum behavior, use the PM system. Thx
Not sure if DC was debuffing, hard to tell for me, maybe some DC experts can provide more information. Recently i had a dc who was only using atwill every 15 seconds or so, we cant blame FBI for that.
The TR in your group simply didnt bother to try, was standing at campfire while he could have at least controlled the orcs and bears and CB one giant to make it easier for you.
Hill climb in FBI is the first bump in the road to see if the players know what they do with their classes and if they are willing to learn and work as a team. Class guides are out there, available for everyone but many expect to steamroll the content and then get surprised by the hill climb.
> In my opinion, the problem is not with the difficulty of FBI - that is just about right.
>
> The problem is with the players who queue up for it without being ready for it - people should really run any content a few times with a "proper" group before queueing up for a "random" run that includes that content.
>
> I personally believe that for dungeons that are farming dungeons, that are years out of date, that don't drop endgame gear, that are no longer necessary for character progression, that they should be accessible even for random teams. What is the justification otherwise?
Because it’s a bit of a travesty they have gotten this far without learning to play and function as a team. For this, the blame is shared with Cryptic. There are many design elements within the game which almost encourage the Pack of Hyenas, approach. This is the games greatest failing and permeates through every layer. The Hill Climb is one of those rare teaching moments when it comes to teamwork in this game and should be used accordingly.
Synergy and teamwork need to mean more than being able to time dps writhing a short window. Win, lose, or draw..that’s underwhelming game play on so many levels..
If you nerf FBI because it's too hard for you, then you'll want to nerf MSP, that's even harder with more complex mechanics. Then you'll want to nerf TONG, because you can't pass the dps-check Orcus and Ras Nsi souls. Then you'll want to nerf CODG because you don't master the move of the pull/push (outside of the claw bug). Etc.
CN is a joke now that Orcus' punchs do nothing and with all the powercreep, so the first resistance a random group encounter in dungeons is FBI.
My question is more: why should a group that doesn't know how to run this dungeon, or simply isn't ready for it (gear-wise) should complete it? I myself really have hard time with Stradh on CR, and didn't run it a lot. Do I call for nerf, because I can't beat it with a random queue? Hell no, because if the team isn't ready to beat it, then it shouldn't.
You're asking for even more facility, in a now semi-old dungeon that's already crippled by powercreep. As I said, FBI is the first step into the endgame, not because of its difficulty anymore, but by the introduction of mechanics that you don't find in T2.
Leave it as it is, and be careful what you wish for, especially in nerfs.
u've been in the game a long time. U contribute to the community. Respect.
@adinosii has given the best answer of all.
The root cause of the problem (unsatisfying random Q FBI) is not "FBI is too hard", it is "people random/PUG q FBI who are not *ready* for 'The Hard'".
People should not enter an advanced dungeon without any knowledge , experience or at least "homework". 5 minutes on The NW Forum FBI Guide, YouTube FBI Guides or... that "UNwelcome" site will explain the mechanics easily.
But no, they want to run it NOWNOWNOW and are pissed off when you, @chemjeff , don't carry them death-free.
And now, the awkward moment.
I watched that video, @chemjeff ... twice just to give you benefit of the doubt.
The first 5/10 deaths you were standing in the red. Yes, I counted. Twice.
3/10 deaths you got charge-proned before a one-hit.
With respect, that is... not the... *best*... example of tanking strategy on the hill climb.
I stand by my earlier "one-third agreement" comment. I do think (for Random Q) the hill climb could ease up on ther one-hits.
But I would not use this video to help that argument.
Anyway, we can agree to disagree. Thanks for an interesting discussion.
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
Tried to search youtube for "solo fbi", this turned up.
This guy can solo a few giants and a bear, no reason a party can't do it.
Published jan 27, 2018, so quite a bit of BiS gear wasn't even out yet. Fbi isn't hard, people are refusing to learn.
Come here my little children, sit down near the fireside, have an nice warm cup of chocolate and some cookies and let me tell you the fairy tale of Bob and Shelley (i liked it when you introduced Bob in one of your posts @asterotg ).
Bob and Shelley starts their adventure in Neverwinter, they had alot of fun leveling up their chars, even if they didn't know each other (tbh i introduced Shelley only bc i don't want to assume any gender), but everytime they entered the Protectors Enclave they heard about smth suspicious called "AD"..."ZEN"..."VIP"...and when they asked about it an friendly Adventurer responded that they will need later on so much Ad, and Zen and Stuff, bc the endcontent is so hard.
Bob and Shelley were very disappointed, because they had not much Ad and zero Zen, so they decided to ask the magic Mirror "Reddit":
"Reddit Reddit on the wall, i need Ad and i want it all!!!111ELEVEN"
And the Mirror reddit answered:
"Remember the time, when you entered the Tower District? At the end you should go in this huge Cloak Tower with other Adventureres, you did it, but the other two was so much faster, they could hit way harder as you could....you are now Lvl 70, do the same, farm Ad, use the ZAX, buy more chars, run also with them Cloak Tower the whole day, and you become rich!!!
Oh and you should buy Vip and maybe you should join a Guild."
So Bob and Shelley did what the Mirror said, they were running Cloak Tower day for day...week for week...they made alot of Ad, they were using the Zay, bought new chars, invoked them to lvl 70, starts also with them running Cloak Tower, day for day...week for week, and if one of the fellow Adventureres are ranting why there are running so far ahead of him, bc he is the first time in...they insulted him what an Noob he is, and how dare he wasting Bobs and Shelleys precious playing time.
So time went on, and Bob and Shelley remebered, that the Mirror also said, that they should join an guild, bc guild ist gut.
So they asked in the Enclave, if someone is looking for new Guildmembers, and an friendly Adventurer pm'ed them:
"Sure we are still looking for new Members, we are builduing up our Stronghold, we had no rules, but it would be nice if you could farm a little bit influence, and we need some campaign stuff, sometimes we organized a Pvp match, bc of the conquerer shards..but we run also alot of stuff like Cn, Fbi, TonG, cradle.
But tbh if i inspec your char, well maybe we could improve it a little bit, but this is not a big deal, if you join us, we can do that."
But Bob and Shelley were totally shocked, how dare this guy insulting his/her precious Char, they have spend soo much time that the char looked nice, or brave, or allmighty...
And then also this stupid insisting of farming stuff for an Guild...Bob and Shelley had no time doing stuff like this, for other people, they want Ad, they had no time for this, bc Bob and Shelley had enough to do running Cloak tower now with 20 chars a day!!!
So they put this insulting guy on the ignore list, and bc no Member of an lvl 20 guild responded, Bob and Shelley decided not to ask anymore and they went back to farm Cloak Tower!
And then in the 5th year on the 14th Modul, the chaotic good Gods of Neverwinter, called "THE DEVS" decided, taht the gap between players like Bob and Shelley and other players are too much, so they gave them better weapons for free, some higher enchants, better seals for better gear, and Bob and Shelley were happy, bc they entered accidently some Zones like Bryn Shandar, or even this evil Jungle named Chult, and the adds there wasn't so nice to them, like the adds and bosses in the Cloak Tower.
And Bob and Shelley were happy when they could leave the Zone in Bryn Shandar after they had become the gem for everfrost resistance.
But THE DEVS are also making some changes to the random q, so Bob and Shelley were qued to FBI, but this couldn't be an big deal, bc Bob and Shelley had watched so many speed run videos, so FBI couldn't be much harder than Cloak Tower....
And then Bob and Shelley were totally shocked, bc these adds were fighting back so hard, and what are these silly signs on the ground, why i am freezed or thrown away, and what is wrong with these Giants, they are constantly throwing rocks at us...
This is totally unfair, this things doesn't happened in Cloak Tower!!!
So Bob and Shelley left the instance...
And the Moral of the story
Don't be Bob, don't be Shelley, join a guild even if it is not a high Guild, grow together, play together, learn from each other, play the game, have fun, even if it could be frustrating from time to time, and then you will maybe notice that alot of Dungeons are not that hard as it seems...
But i dont want nerf FBI or other dung, because easy game was boring. It doesn't make sense to change difficulty level only for nup in RAQ.
I only queue solo. Early in mod 14, I was able to finish most FBI runs I ended up in, even a few mSP. Then as the average iLvl of the party crept up and the success rate plummeted, I've mostly given up on FBI, and completely given up on mSP. I leave RAQ as the last queue to do for the day if I have time to fish for eDemo. If I have more time and the avg iLvl is pretty high, I may stay as it might be a successful run. Or at least I get a good laugh at the epic fail.
If you ae in a weaker team then have the team wait while you pull 2-4 at a time it is slow but it is alot less painfull
RIP Real Tiamat, RIP Real Demogorgon RIP real Temple of the spider. Why remove non bis content to give to bis players ????
FORCING the majority of your player base to play 4 mod old dungeons and trial will have a bad result on player base
Changes are getting so bad i would rather prefer no new changes (RIP ICE FISHING in winter fest)
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
The hill is the only part of FBI that really needs a nerf, the other bosses are pretty much just "learn the mechanics".
A team full of minimum-required IL can complete it, though they'll need to master their class and their moves a bit more than a team full of 16k. FBI (hill mostly) is absolutely not a problem IL-related, but skill-related. You can have a full team of 16k, if all team suck, well you won't pass. You can have a full team of 12k (or whatever min IL needed), if all team is skilled, you'll pass (will take longer, but that's normal). It is, it just needs a bit more attention span than etos. You need to be more careful on your dodge timing, and actually avoid red zones. Well it's kinda supposed to be more difficult for a min-IL team than for a high-IL team, so all good here. And teams that can't burn bears and giants have to rely on a tank that can manage their aggro. It's just a different strategy based on which kind of team you have. I disagree, hill is kinda just a mechanic itself, that people need to learn in their journey through expert dungeons. They can choose to learn or not, but in no way should FBI's hill be nerfed now, the dungeon is too old for that. You should have asked that in Mod 10.5, would have been understandable.
Yup been playing over 2 years.
Yup I am not the best skilled player of all time but I am fairly competent.
I will go take a look at soloing the hill run first group of mobs and report back
First group of 4 orcs drawn down to the flat area by the campfire and fought them. Was quite optimistic and doing reasonably well had two down to 50% hit points then they whammoed me in like 2 seconds. My timing? Or overkill hits?
Second attempt I took down the Axe Thrower relatively easily and was fighting the other three orcs, trying to dodge move and weave and hit when I could and avoid those red areas... but again my timing for their attacks and my attacks was out. So I was still in motion and couldn't move or block when the overkill whammo hit me.
After that I tried to have a go at the Giant Beastmaster and Huge bear thing to the right of the hill. I was just one big squishy mess - the giant charges you knocking you over then throws a rock at you to kill you. Same mechanic as the giants in Cold Run [?] which can be worked through but to solo on a non DPS char would take ages?
Back to the initial orc group and I failed a few more times, but my heart wasn't really in it by now.
SO I thought I would cheer myself up with a lockbox and luckily I struck RNG gold with a Howling Adventurer's Pack!
Oh lucky me!
BUT I have to say that if I could get the timing better then my survival would last longer
It was almost fun for 20 minutes. Oh and one time it reset all weird with the Orcs high up on the cliffs/rocks hidden almost - that was fun.
[+disclaimer my keyboard skills and GF build certainly isnt perfect, my enchants may take me to iL 15.8 with all the campaign boons etc, but its an overinflated iL so don't spam me at how HAMSTER I am]
However as for tanking goes it should be in equal difficulty to both tank classes.
Example:OP shield can block Hatti big aoe,Gf is nuked 20 feet away even with his shield up.
i like the dungeon,i think in structure and in design it remains the best in game.But not in rewards.
A corridor running uphill with mini bosses in separated plateau .
A hard hitting boss that requires positioning .
An easy link to the second boss.
An evade phase inside the castle.
And the final boss where you need to pay attention to the mechanics.
All bosses attacks have visible and audio cues.When you die,you know from what.You did not blocked/moved/dodged out of red.
Now compare this to Castle Wipeloft.
You avoid hitting first sister during the reflect phase,fine and well and then 3 secs aftermwith your shield up,no visible attack,bam sf proc.What a mess.
Bosses are tiny you cannot see a trhing,DPS get into your way,DPS standing in front of bosses attacks.Disaster.
Anyway,to the topic.FBI is fine,the rewards could use a little buff though....