Invoking, Celestial and Ardent Coins

checkmatein3

With the recent mod 14 changes to AD refine cap account wide, I thought I would make a post regarding the current invoking system, and throw in some suggestions for Ardent and Celestial Coins as well.

In case some do not remember, the original invoke system was a 3x per day affair, where the player would receive unrefined AD on each character, 3k daily max. The first invoke of the day gave the most, the 2nd less, and the third less (I do not remember %, but you all get the idea). Also, you only got 1 ardent coin and 1 celestial coin per day, on first invoke. The ardent packs were the same as now, but the celestial packs were harder to get (2 weeks I think), but the coal wards were easier because drop rate was higher (about 15% iirc).

Then, in order to promote more frequent logins and to make the gaining of urAD more difficult, the invoke system was changed to the current 6x daily, where the first invoke gave both ardent and celestial, the middle 4 gave more unrefined AD successively, and the 6th invoke gave an extra celestial. Also, additional packs were made and at less of a cost of celestial (11 coins, or 5.5 days of 6x invokes daily). But the drop rate on the coal wards was decreased (I wanna say around 3-5%, but others can verify).

Then, the 6x invokes were changed not to urAD, but to an AD refine bonus, so that you now can earn a storage of AD that will refine at 50% more. So if you earn 6k from something, and you have invoke bonus AD saved up, you earn 9k in unrefined AD. With the 36k urAD system per character, that means from invoking daily and moving items around, you could usually maximize the bonus on multiple characters for one account (running less dungeons). It had the disadvantage that you had to have a storage of the bonus AD already. The advantage to Cryptic were more login numbers and longer time in the game.

But with mod 14, with the AD refine cap on accounts, the invoke system is for urAD is less useful. Therefore, I propose the following changes:
1. Revert back to a 3x invoke system, with first invoke giving 50% of the bonus for the day, 2nd invoke giving 33%, and 3rd invoke giving 17%.
2. Give 1 ardent and 1 celestial coin every day.
3. Have the invoke be a bonus to refining, as before, with only 3k bonus per day.
4. Add in another feature. Allow a conversion to celestial coins 10k bonus AD:1 coin or ardent coins 5k AD:1 ardent coin. Thus, in a 1 month period, a person who invoked 1 time could get an extra 4 celestial coins and 1 ardent coin (45k unused bonus AD), or other combinations.

Now, change the rewards for Ardent and Celestial coins:

Here are my ideas for Ardent Coins:
1. Add in a conversion for Tarmulane Bars. 10 Ardent coins for 1 tar bar.
2. Add in a conversion for Lockbox Keys. 50 Ardent coins for 1 lockbox key.
3. Add in a conversion for Transmutes. There is a whole library that details transmutes that are no longer in the game. 30 Ardent Coins for 1 transmute piece. Make the transmutes BtA, and where you can purchase for other classes.
4. Add in a conversion for Guild Food/Event Food. Some players still like soloing and do not want to join a guild. Others do not grind out events for the specific foods. Place a 'food' market through ardent coins, which means it would function anytime anywhere. change the amount of ardent coins based on the type of food. For example, lower food buffs cost 2 ardent coins per food. market 20 guild foods cost 15 ardent coins per food.
5. Add in conversion for Overload Enchantments. Since most of these are made via Black Ice, or grinded through Kessels, eLOL or eSOT, let players earn them BtA through ardent coins. Include the Frost, Draconic and Black Ice versions. Lesser Corrupt/Purified 3 Ardent Coins for 1 overload. Greater Corrupt or Purified 10 Ardent/1 overload. Draconic at 5 Ardent Coins for 1 overload. Frost at 10 Ardent/1 overload.

Here are my ideas for Celestial:
1. Add in a conversion for VIP. 100 celestial for 1 month VIP (limit 1 per account per year). Equivalent to 1000 zen.
2. Guaranteed Coalescent Ward 100 celestial for 1 coal ward (limit 5 rewards per account per year, BtA). Equivalent to 1000 zen.
3. Guaranteed Legendary Mount 2000 celestial for 1 mount (limit 1 per account ever, BtA). Equivalent to 20000 zen.
4. Allow celestials (not ardent) to be transferred between characters via bank.

Also, one more thing: in VIP levels, add bonuses like:
1. VIP 2 decreases cost of ardent coins by 5%.
2. VIP 3 increase limit of VIP through celestial to 2 per year.
3. VIP 5 increase coal ward limit to 6 per year.
4. VIP 6 decreases cost of ardent coins by 10%.
5. VIP 8 increases limit of VIP through celestial to 3 per year.
6. VIP 10 increases lmit of coal ward through celestial to 7 per year.
7. VIP 11 decreases cost of ardent coins by 20%.
7. VIP 12 increase limit of lifetime legend mount through celestial to 2.

As always, these are merely suggestions!

LEVIATHAN

reg1981

Great post! Only thing I'd like to point out is the bags received for coupons! Currently I'm invoking more than I'm playing simply for the bags/coupons! I have a stash of AD/ZEN I'm working on spending using 40% off key coupons and the more bags I get, the better!

checkmatein3

Maybe add a suggestion like:
Add a coupon store? You get to buy the coupon you want...

plasticbat

No, I don't like your invocation operational change. For me, the current system is not the best but it is better than what you proposed.

I don't mind the reward to be changed though.

What I don't like:
1. less AD bonus (I did things in burst. Hence, I want my AD bonus pool as fill as possible).
2. less XP.
3. less bag. Less RP. Less coupon.
4. less coin.
5. 11 days to get the box instead of 5.5 days (if one does 6 invocations)
6. I don't see any plus in the operational change for my way of playing. I only see nerf.

nunya

I like the current system. The rAD bonus I get on my characters every day is fine the way it is. I like the invoke bags, not just for the coupons but also for the refining stones I get. Those refining stones are enough to make the slow progress I'm interested in on my alts that I don't really play much. I like the short turn-around time on being able to get Coffer of Celestial Artifacts (or whatever the precise name is; you get the idea). It would be nice if the other things you could buy with the other coins were more worthwhile, but I don't really feel I'm missing anything because I'm already not really using them. (I did buy a couple of weapons last year when I created a couple of new alts.)

So, I'm sorry, but /notsigned.

pitshade

Just some info, the original system was 7 coins (so 7 days) for the Celestial box and the box contained either a P-Ward (large chance) or C-Ward (small chance). Nothing was bound and there were no junk drops.

zephyriah

checkmatein3 said:

With the recent mod 14 changes to AD refine cap account wide, I thought I would make a post regarding the current invoking system, and throw in some suggestions for Ardent and Celestial Coins as well.

In case some do not remember, the original invoke system was a 3x per day affair, where the player would receive unrefined AD on each character, 3k daily max. The first invoke of the day gave the most, the 2nd less, and the third less (I do not remember %, but you all get the idea). Also, you only got 1 ardent coin and 1 celestial coin per day, on first invoke. The ardent packs were the same as now, but the celestial packs were harder to get (2 weeks I think), but the coal wards were easier because drop rate was higher (about 15% iirc).


LEVIATHAN

That wasn't the first change. I think it was always 6 per day from the beginning, but admit I'm not sure of the original details. I do know the first change put invoking on the 24 hour daily reset clock, where previously it had reset every 20 hours from a player action time and allowed many of us to earn the angel well before the first year anniversary from the extra coins. I think the first change also reduced the amount of AD from invoking, but that's a little fuzzy. I'm thinking original amount was closer to 6K, but as I said I'm not certain.

ecrana

I don't need the mechanics modified at all but the rewards need a major refresh. Not a fan of the ideas you have as a rework so I'm going to jump on the "no thanks" train.

santralafax

No thanks. I have witnessed multiple nerfs to the invoke system since I've been playing and don't care to see another one. If they want to create newer rewards that would be welcome. If they would increase the coal wards (rarely seen, over a period of months) that would also be welcome.

sandukutupu

Actually the "original invoking" was hourly and only handed out buffs... sometimes. It worked like this;

Unnoticed: "Though you mumble the proper invocation the Gods didn’t notice. Try harder next time."
A small amount of XP is the only reward for this outcome.
Recognized: "The ritual is complete; the Gods are amused."
This outcome awards a small amount of XP plus a small random stat boost.
Acknowledged: "The Gods have seen your hard work and wish you to aid you in your heroism."
This outcome awards the same as "Recognized" plus a useful item, probably consumable, or stat bonus.
Honored: "Your devotion and bravery have impressed the Gods, who reward you greatly." This outcome awards the same as "Acknowledged" plus a more valuable icon.

Additionally, every day, a Ardent Coin and Celestial Coin will be awarded to be spent on items from the Vault of Piety. There was no AD awarded.

sandukutupu

santralafax said:

No thanks. I have witnessed multiple nerfs to the invoke system since I've been playing and don't care to see another one. If they want to create newer rewards that would be welcome. If they would increase the coal wards (rarely seen, over a period of months) that would also be welcome.

That is odd, I got 2 coalescent wards this month a one last month. On a rare occasion I hit a dry month. Bottom line they will do as they please and no amount of, "Can we get a cookie and a glass of milk?" is going to change that. LOL

plasticbat

sandukutupu said:

santralafax said:

No thanks. I have witnessed multiple nerfs to the invoke system since I've been playing and don't care to see another one. If they want to create newer rewards that would be welcome. If they would increase the coal wards (rarely seen, over a period of months) that would also be welcome.

That is odd, I got 2 coalescent wards this month a one last month. On a rare occasion I hit a dry month. Bottom line they will do as they please and no amount of, "Can we get a cookie and a glass of milk?" is going to change that. LOL

Using month is not a good measurement because it depends on how many character you have and how many invocation you do per day per character. Using number of boxes would be a better measurement. I don't open box when it comes. I stack them up and open in 2xRefining stone. I usually open more than 100. I usually get 1 c-ward per 40 boxes.

santralafax

sandukutupu said:

santralafax said:

No thanks. I have witnessed multiple nerfs to the invoke system since I've been playing and don't care to see another one. If they want to create newer rewards that would be welcome. If they would increase the coal wards (rarely seen, over a period of months) that would also be welcome.

That is odd, I got 2 coalescent wards this month a one last month. On a rare occasion I hit a dry month. Bottom line they will do as they please and no amount of, "Can we get a cookie and a glass of milk?" is going to change that. LOL

I hear this all the time from people who pray 10+ characters. I have 2 active characters.

xveganrox

I've got a feeling the next invoke rework is going to remove wards altogether. They've been moving in that direction for a long time now anyway. It looks like you put a lot of thought into your suggestions, but they would involve adding multiple new shop/barter systems and would give people free lockbox keys/VIP, which I'd bet are the most common purchases, so I don't think they'd be considered.

chidion

Hopefully not to tick of any of the Neverwinter "gods", but the since I've been playing, the rewards from invoking has always seemed to me to be fairly paltry, with the exception of early on when the Angel of Protection was considered one of the BIS companions or when people could actually get astral diamonds for invoking...

But that's just my opinion.

thevampinator

xveganrox said:

I've got a feeling the next invoke rework is going to remove wards altogether. They've been moving in that direction for a long time now anyway. It looks like you put a lot of thought into your suggestions, but they would involve adding multiple new shop/barter systems and would give people free lockbox keys/VIP, which I'd bet are the most common purchases, so I don't think they'd be considered.

I really hope they do not remove the wards. Or Coal Wards from it. Personally would like to get a bunch of them from the celestial coins. For the times I will be forced to use them to well upgrade my characters enchantments.

sandukutupu

santralafax said:

I hear this all the time from people who pray 10+ characters. I have 2 active characters.

My bad, I wasn't thinking. I do have 8 characters. So you should see 1 every 3 to 4 months maybe? I play all my characters, they are not an army of alternates. While I call Llorna Zorg my main, I try my best to keep them on level field. They are all 10.5 K at the moment, some close to 11K. I stopped at 8 because that is my personal comfort zone. My son says he can't handle more than 4, but he works and I am retired and don't have much of a life. :frowning:

kemnimtarkas

In my experience, when there's been a change to the invoke system (or most others) it has not been to the benefit of the casual player. Be careful what you wish for.

flippy

checkmatein3 said:

Maybe add a suggestion like:
Add a coupon store? You get to buy the coupon you want...

and for real mayhem make this store operate on raw AD.

providing a game sink for this item

greywynd

Refining sinks raw AD.

flippy

greywynd said:

Refining sinks raw AD.

like sinking an iceberg

nunya

flippy#8481 said:

greywynd said:

Refining sinks raw AD.

like sinking an iceberg

Yeah, but that's the way they're intending it to work. If you can spend rough astral diamonds directly without first refining them, then they might as well just remove the AD refinement cap and make the "coupon store" cost astral diamonds instead.

flippy

nunya#5309 said:

flippy#8481 said:

greywynd said:

Refining sinks raw AD.

like sinking an iceberg

Yeah, but that's the way they're intending it to work. If you can spend rough astral diamonds directly without first refining them, then they might as well just remove the AD refinement cap and make the "coupon store" cost astral diamonds instead.

almost but not quite

rAD to buy coupon to spend zen on . . . sinks rAD and spends zen

spends zen

plasticbat

flippy#8481 said:

nunya#5309 said:

flippy#8481 said:

greywynd said:

Refining sinks raw AD.

like sinking an iceberg

Yeah, but that's the way they're intending it to work. If you can spend rough astral diamonds directly without first refining them, then they might as well just remove the AD refinement cap and make the "coupon store" cost astral diamonds instead.

almost but not quite

rAD to buy coupon to spend zen on . . . sinks rAD and spends zen

spends zen

Why would they do that? They want to sink AD and not rAD.

nunya

flippy#8481 said:

nunya#5309 said:

flippy#8481 said:

greywynd said:

Refining sinks raw AD.

like sinking an iceberg

Yeah, but that's the way they're intending it to work. If you can spend rough astral diamonds directly without first refining them, then they might as well just remove the AD refinement cap and make the "coupon store" cost astral diamonds instead.

almost but not quite

rAD to buy coupon to spend zen on . . . sinks rAD and spends zen

spends zen

Once again, it effectively removes the cap on astral diamond refinement. If you're not required to refine your astral diamonds before spending them, then that's an end-run around the refinement cap.

flippy

nunya#5309 said:

flippy#8481 said:

nunya#5309 said:

flippy#8481 said:

greywynd said:

Refining sinks raw AD.

like sinking an iceberg

Yeah, but that's the way they're intending it to work. If you can spend rough astral diamonds directly without first refining them, then they might as well just remove the AD refinement cap and make the "coupon store" cost astral diamonds instead.

almost but not quite

rAD to buy coupon to spend zen on . . . sinks rAD and spends zen

spends zen

Once again, it effectively removes the cap on astral diamond refinement. If you're not required to refine your astral diamonds before spending them, then that's an end-run around the refinement cap.

joyous end run of the sake of spending cash

ah

now I see the issue

one must never spend zen

nunya

flippy#8481 said:

nunya#5309 said:

flippy#8481 said:

nunya#5309 said:

flippy#8481 said:

greywynd said:

Refining sinks raw AD.

like sinking an iceberg

Yeah, but that's the way they're intending it to work. If you can spend rough astral diamonds directly without first refining them, then they might as well just remove the AD refinement cap and make the "coupon store" cost astral diamonds instead.

almost but not quite

rAD to buy coupon to spend zen on . . . sinks rAD and spends zen

spends zen

Once again, it effectively removes the cap on astral diamond refinement. If you're not required to refine your astral diamonds before spending them, then that's an end-run around the refinement cap.

joyous end run of the sake of spending cash

ah

now I see the issue

one must never spend zen

That's not the issue and you know it. So stop trolling. People who buy Zen with money are either already spending it on things for themselves or selling it for AD. People who buy Zen with AD are already spending it on things for themselves (or things for resale, which is basically the same thing). If you truly cannot see how allowing people to spend unrefined astral diamonds directly without having to first refine them effectively negates the astral diamond refinement cap, then I really don't know how else I can explain this to you.