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T9 and CoDG - 16K is not good enough
mebengalsfan
Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
I decided to check on how long it took to form a group or join a group for T9 and CoDG on my 16K CW.
Trying to join a group was a nightmare. Apparently 16K is not good enough for the community as a CW even if you play as a Buff CW.
Forming groups were just as bad. I always go for the DC and tank first. Every tank or DC I picked up would quit and when I asked why, many stated, you are not 17K.
So 16K is not acceptable now for T9 or CoDG apparently. And players leave the Q rather quickly if you are not 17K forming the group, even if you are running as a buffer.
This is unacceptable behavior and it is why many players quit the game, because the community mindset is IL = ability to complete content. I beat t9 on my GF with a group that was all under 15K. It took us an hour but we did it with no wipes on Orcus.
Trying to join a group was a nightmare. Apparently 16K is not good enough for the community as a CW even if you play as a Buff CW.
Forming groups were just as bad. I always go for the DC and tank first. Every tank or DC I picked up would quit and when I asked why, many stated, you are not 17K.
So 16K is not acceptable now for T9 or CoDG apparently. And players leave the Q rather quickly if you are not 17K forming the group, even if you are running as a buffer.
This is unacceptable behavior and it is why many players quit the game, because the community mindset is IL = ability to complete content. I beat t9 on my GF with a group that was all under 15K. It took us an hour but we did it with no wipes on Orcus.
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But what you want from me? (Or the other random readers).
You yourself leave parties by some criteria: You think your arbitrary criteria of expecting DPS be buffers is correct, others think IL is some measurement of potential success. I wouldn't put my money on either.
The 'community' is not some monolithic object, I've took guildies and friends (and they took me) without either IL or excessive 1337 skills, or neither. Some of the funnier runs.
Most people I know, best char is averaged at 14k-15k for dps, and I have no clue for for OP/DO because no one really cares. Some more of the singe class focused people are 16k. And I think I know only one person who is high 17k, nicest person ever, and will carry anyone through anything and not beneath farming siege vouchers to help out (cheers barbarian).
I myself on the low 16k, and at Tomb release was 15k and so? I choose to perhaps risk longer run rather than use many of the /lfg channels that I'm in. That's my choice, like some others who will make the group half day or wait for specific people to be online to run tomb for 15minutes.
We define who our community is. Not a single one is perfect, and as others everyone have issues, then those are solved (to the best of our abilities) and life goes on.
Like in RL we are not 'compatible' with every random group of people.
But I I've probably wouldn't run with you even if you had over 20k IL, I don't need someone to judge me, or how I play, especially when they have 0 understanding of my class. Constructive feedback is welcomed, headaches, not so much.
Maybe they didn't leave over IL?
Another option - Lets say someone has only half hour to play after they come back from work, how they can judge your capability ? IL is the only thing they have. There were plenty of proposals to use different criteria, a more closer to Elo system that will count success and others. But at the end it's all some criteria to measure predicted success.
You don't like 'the' community, form one to your liking, form a guild, form an alliance, kick those that don't fit, and those pesky DPS that do not buff (Pleb TRs) and be happy.
But what the purpose of the post? To remind us how varied the player-base is? how varied everyone priorities and their values?
People were asking for crapton of K to run etos. Nothing new.
The good news is the mod 14 RQ changes should start to address this. The bad news is it will probably take a mod or two before we see the gap between these elites and rest of the players narrow to something more reasonable.
/sign at the rest of your post. Perfect.
I also do not care about IL when I form groups. First I get my support characters, which was next to impossible on my CW. On my DC it takes me a few minutes and in no time I have a full group for T9. On my GF, most expect me to DPS and leave when they see I am not a GF DPS. That is if I use LFG.
This game content is actually quite easy. In fact, I haven't seen a raid that makes even elite player rage quit; when you see that than you know the content is hard. The closest thing was MSPC and that is still a joke when compared to other MMO dungeons and raids.
(The comparison is only of the method, not implying that /lfg is racist)
Or going to fast food restaurant and say that no one (in the general population) understands gourmet food. And it would have been much faster if you had 4 supports and 1 DPS that DPS
1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence
2. You generalize without proof, just to 'prove' some narrative about your own choices with CW. I've asked you earlier, by what method you decided that granting CA to 3 support players (which they can get on their own) is better than other options.
3. This is not how you test things, really. I understand that consoles and everything, but if you want to have at least some resemblance to testing have some methodology and do it with the same people.
The buff meta is the king of the hill for ages now. The fastest runs stack buffs, the entire world revolves around getting the buffers. But doesn't mean it should go to some weird, unproven, unreasonable places, like buffer TR.
The optimal group composition, build, etc.. are not some guess work..
on xbox people call out the il lines they're looking for in chat as a general rule. if you've got a couple 15il they'll call out it's a 15k group. (under 14k has no hope in zone and better have an ok alliance/guild to run with unless they are dc op ) 16 will be called out as a 16k group so on and so forth. People are a lot more picky in zone/lfg because you are an unknown. guild and alliance runs tend to be a lot more accepting because you know most people know what they are doing to some degree.
when I read the above I have to wonder if you were calling out for 17k il and are only a 16k yourself. that makes people LOL and leave.
the other behavior I might expect to see from you that will make me leave a party is excessive questioning on my build and what I'm running asked in an aggressive manner. it guarantees and aggro run. (and I always play worse knowing someone is ready to judge and point fingers too lol)
I generalized and made observations based on game play. If you cannot pull that out of my post than maybe you are reading way to much into what I am writing here and I will ignore you just like I do with others when they reads into things I state that really have no additional meaning.
If discrediting players make you feel better keep it up. I have other things to take care of in life that has a higher priority over a game.
Later.
What of what I wrote is wrong?
Your post is a simple click-bait, you went to where people judge by IL from before the game was live. And complain people ask for IL?
What is it that you mean? What I'm supposed to read from your post? You don't want to be judged by IL, make a group in your alliance / guild / friends.
If you mean the buff part, there is a miles of difference between actually testing and then suggesting (to the best of the tools you have):
"I've ran with the same group, I've specced once with X, and once without X and with X was faster. We can see that adding CA to the 4 players that are not main DPS added noticeable difference. I believe that the positional CA was not enough and without mark or other it was the preferred spec for that group, YMMW."
And your blanket suggestion to always do spec X which is just not correct. For example in a regular party that I will do tomb in I really really don't need the CW to grant me CA or the rest of the supports. The difference is just too high in terms of dps between the roles, and the up-time is high enough from positional for the CW itself (and control skills).
As a side note, I can't discredit someone who claims to test the tiger by testing the shield and got caught on this "inaccuracy". You did it well enough on your own.
In practice this means that 14K DODC, 15K OP, 16K GF/ACDC/HR and a 17K GWF/CW/SW will have a fairly easy time getting into a group ... if you are below those ILs (or if you are a TR) the "elitist" channels will not be nice to you.
If you have a good friend list and a reputation of being good at your job, you have no need for the channels.....and if everything fails there are always guild/alliance runs.
I know others were having similar issues previously for t9. Things have not changed and they probably won't.
And why would I? When every other option has lower requirements, higher communication if needed and higher success chance. So why would I stab myself in the legs just before going for a run...
That's the whole point, the community is not pugging, the community is in the guilds, custom channels, friends lists.
Go to the zone, and open the social search and search the same "tomb of the nine gods", lookup how many of the instances are those that forming in /lfg.
It's extremely rare for players to play any significant length of time and not realize that they will progress much faster, and enjoy the game much more if they will join/form a community to their liking.
Side note:
Looks like disabling the disagree button actually bears fruits...
> My point on this post is that the community wants 17-18K DPS players even when it is not needed. I do run with my guild and alliance as needed on my characters and have no issues getting into content. I was testing the LFG waters to see if there is still this imaginary IL wall that exist.
>
>
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> Again who is that community ? It's not my community. Your post is akin to going to a KKK meeting to test if the community is white supremacist.
> (The comparison is only of the method, not implying that /lfg is racist)
>
> Or going to fast food restaurant and say that no one (in the general population) understands gourmet food.
> This weekend I decided not to leave any T9 group I did on my DC. I did at least 10 runs this weekend on my DC in t9 soloing every single one. Of those, more than half were with 2 or 3 GWF or 2 GWF and 1 TR. The runs with 2-3 GWF and TR were all over 30 minutes and some even hit in the 40 minute mark. The runs where I took 3 buffing DPS those were all under 30 minutes. Buffing DPS helps make content easier. It is why I prefer seeing a DPS that can buff the group damage up and make content quicker.
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> And it would have been much faster if you had 4 supports and 1 DPS that DPS
>
> 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence
> 2. You generalize without proof, just to 'prove' some narrative about your own choices with CW. I've asked you earlier, by what method you decided that granting CA to 3 support players (which they can get on their own) is better than other options.
> 3. This is not how you test things, really. I understand that consoles and everything, but if you want to have at least some resemblance to testing have some methodology and do it with the same people.
>
> The buff meta is the king of the hill for ages now. The fastest runs stack buffs, the entire world revolves around getting the buffers. But doesn't mean it should go to some weird, unproven, unreasonable places, like buffer TR.
> The optimal group composition, build, etc.. are not some guess work..
>
>
>
> I generalized and made observations based on game play. If you cannot pull that out of my post than maybe you are reading way to much into what I am writing here and I will ignore you just like I do with others when they reads into things I state that really have no additional meaning.
>
> If discrediting players make you feel better keep it up. I have other things to take care of in life that has a higher priority over a game.
>
> Later.
That is the sign of defeat.
You got called out for basically being a hypocrite and choose to ignore any criticism by saying "you are reading too much into it d00d".
There are plenty of 16ks running T9G but it seems you want to be with only the 17k-18k players instead of players of your own item level. You cannot call it "unacceptable behavior" for players who have upgraded their characters to higher items level to want to play with others of the same level.