@trgluestickz thanks for the list for helping stay on the platform, it is very helpful. Playing with a DC and CW I generally time point #9, so that the dodges land me during the push phase, hence am not pushed. I also run with 300-320 ping, but I am able to stay up on the platform more often than not now, so it is possible, but it is just such a harsh way of learning.
In comparison to previous mods, e.g. Trial of Svardborg, there was a normal version where you could just re-join the party if you died, and then a Master version, which got you the ultimate marks to restore your weapons but if you died, you were out for that fight.
I really think that CODG needs to have a normal and master version as well. A normal version to help players learn the mechanics without having to repeat everything beforehand (by just rejoining the fight until a timer is up), and the master version for getting the Carvings, Ampoules etc.
@thefabricant That attack hits you 3 to 4 times and takes far, far more than 80% of your HP and normally you should group up.. in a phase everyone runs like a chicken. If that devine armor should last that long at all...6 seconds, you have to be very lucky to get that coordinated if not that DC allready vanished to the other side of the donut since he does/prepares for his dodging maneuvres.
The boss goes untargetable for >10 second sometimes, mostly before second pull, and spits every known aoe , the huge one about 50" or more (not mentioned at the page not to be named btw), beside the grab, the blue vortex/debuff and the small aoe (oneshots). It´s huge cc effect also experienced during the fight. If you stand at the edge and he drops that huge aoe on you and starts his pull immidiately, you either have to be very fast to run out that zone or you get knocked (or call it lift in the air) ignoring block (not dodge I guess) and get a free flight if coupled with the immidiate incoming pull. You have to be very lucky to avoid the lift and the pull together, honestly it´s impossible for some classes. It looks like an acrobatic huge backflip in the center of that hole, that's what i refer to and it happens pretty often. Your team get´s deminihed by being grabbed and die, since the boss took his time, and they were forced to revive in the pullphase, or fly away from that pull/aoe combination, or simply drop off because they started to free their neighbour from the grabbing hand and were suprised by one of those "instant no look pulls", awaiting the "10 second drama" as normally...
Anyway I think it´s pointless to ask for adaption by the player to an obviously broken betastate of a dungeon.
Scrolls of life should have a 10 minute cooldown or be one use per dungeon, or be removed entirely. The reason the devs need to resort to mechanics like the push pull to kill players is because players just ignore other mechanics and then scroll them when they die. If people actually have to learn when to dodge, these types of instant kill mechanics may be less necessary.
I will have to disagree with all appropriate respect because it means I cannot pay to win with my lockbox earnings.
If I help pay to keep the game free to play, then I feel I should be allowed to win without having to put effort into playing.
Why must you be so cruel and want to take this fine ability away from me?
While I agree generally that scrolls are overpowered, CoDG in its current state is made more tolerable with them. The mechanics being so buggy can make for a high fatality rate even among players who execute correctly.
It almost never occurred to me actually to use rez scrolls until CoDG came out. Once in a blue moon I'd pop one to save newbies at Ras Nsi, but that was about it.
Scrolls is not the biggest problem, you simply get grabbed, knocked and oneshotted by running the "donut of pain". The boss throws aoe before he dives the second time. Sometimes he stays untargetable for >10 seconds throwing mud, then goes down. In between he: 1. grabbed one player awaiting the pull, kills him by that 2. puts that cross on your head = dead for everyone, except a tank. 3. Awaiting the pull you get that huge aoe at your place. If that happens during the pull you simply take of and fly away like a leaf in the wind, ignores block.
Sometimes the boss skips that "10-second-drama" and starts in a splitsecond the 2. pull, maybe simply to make you mad since he recognized you trying to help one of your mates out of that hand ... but tbh I think it´s simply a huge pile of mechanics overlapping in a not intended way, simple bugs.
1) If you get grabbed during the push, nothing will save you. That is a bug and is not scrollable. 2) Tell a DC to use their brain and cast divine armour, you might find you actually live. 3) No clue what you are referring to here.
There is no issue if he starts the 2nd pull fast, just do what you did the first time.
Scrolls of life should have a 10 minute cooldown or be one use per dungeon, or be removed entirely. The reason the devs need to resort to mechanics like the push pull to kill players is because players just ignore other mechanics and then scroll them when they die. If people actually have to learn when to dodge, these types of instant kill mechanics may be less necessary.
1 scroll with a cool down well not sure about that idea i have had to use 3+ scroll just from one death as the aoe or lag would one shot me again before i could do anything not even able to dodge. Yet they really should give like a 3 or 4 second immunity when we use a scroll then that would not be so bad to limit its use.
Scrolls should not exist at all imo, but they will never be removed. They act as a, "oops I messed up, try again" button for bad players and mean you never have to learn the mechanics. I have ran cradle with over 600 ping, dodged the reds and not fallen off. If I can do it, so can you. Most of the time people die, this is why they die:
Step 1) Don't bother to move the debuff AoE away from the party. Step 2) Party does not bother to move outside of the debuff AoE. Step 3) Boss does the 5 small red circles and party doesn't bother to move out of those. Oh well, they died.
Its ok though, they got 2000 scrolls and they can just, "oopsie I messed up" button not dodging.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTF1GNZ6teE . IN that video we can see your friends do pretty well against the boss but wait they use and mass scroll of life so following your logic those are bad players and they cant learn the mechanics.
1)Bad players will die even if a dev log in and give them 999 scrolls for each player. 2) if i use scroll do not affect your gameplay? 3) Using a scroll do not make me a bad player.
The biggest enemy in that dungeons is that "on-off-speedbuff" anyway .... 100k movement down to 4k from stacking insignia + ITF + Dark Revelry. I don´t dare to move at all, when I accidentally press w-a-s-d two times in a row , I fly away with 100mph from that donut of pain.
3
thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
Scrolls is not the biggest problem, you simply get grabbed, knocked and oneshotted by running the "donut of pain". The boss throws aoe before he dives the second time. Sometimes he stays untargetable for >10 seconds throwing mud, then goes down. In between he: 1. grabbed one player awaiting the pull, kills him by that 2. puts that cross on your head = dead for everyone, except a tank. 3. Awaiting the pull you get that huge aoe at your place. If that happens during the pull you simply take of and fly away like a leaf in the wind, ignores block.
Sometimes the boss skips that "10-second-drama" and starts in a splitsecond the 2. pull, maybe simply to make you mad since he recognized you trying to help one of your mates out of that hand ... but tbh I think it´s simply a huge pile of mechanics overlapping in a not intended way, simple bugs.
1) If you get grabbed during the push, nothing will save you. That is a bug and is not scrollable. 2) Tell a DC to use their brain and cast divine armour, you might find you actually live. 3) No clue what you are referring to here.
There is no issue if he starts the 2nd pull fast, just do what you did the first time.
Scrolls of life should have a 10 minute cooldown or be one use per dungeon, or be removed entirely. The reason the devs need to resort to mechanics like the push pull to kill players is because players just ignore other mechanics and then scroll them when they die. If people actually have to learn when to dodge, these types of instant kill mechanics may be less necessary.
1 scroll with a cool down well not sure about that idea i have had to use 3+ scroll just from one death as the aoe or lag would one shot me again before i could do anything not even able to dodge. Yet they really should give like a 3 or 4 second immunity when we use a scroll then that would not be so bad to limit its use.
Scrolls should not exist at all imo, but they will never be removed. They act as a, "oops I messed up, try again" button for bad players and mean you never have to learn the mechanics. I have ran cradle with over 600 ping, dodged the reds and not fallen off. If I can do it, so can you. Most of the time people die, this is why they die:
Step 1) Don't bother to move the debuff AoE away from the party. Step 2) Party does not bother to move outside of the debuff AoE. Step 3) Boss does the 5 small red circles and party doesn't bother to move out of those. Oh well, they died.
Its ok though, they got 2000 scrolls and they can just, "oopsie I messed up" button not dodging.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTF1GNZ6teE . IN that video we can see your friends do pretty well against the boss but wait they use and mass scroll of life so following your logic those are bad players and they cant learn the mechanics.
1)Bad players will die even if a dev log in and give them 999 scrolls for each player. 2) if i use scroll do not affect your gameplay? 3) Using a scroll do not make me a bad player.
Just because they use them in that video, does not mean I condone the use of them and if you took that same group and we did cradle again, no scrolls would be used and the dungeon would be complete. If the push pull did not exist, players could keep pressing scrolls and eventually they would finish the dungeon, regardless of how good or bad they are, so yes, I will say that frequent scroll usage does imply one is a bad player.
Recently I was in a cradle run where 1 player was confused when people didn't use scrolls and complained about it and I was itching to kick them, because I would rather fail with a group that doesn't scroll but knows the mechanic than succeed with a group that scrolls 100 times and doesn't doge at all.
Scrolls is not the biggest problem, you simply get grabbed, knocked and oneshotted by running the "donut of pain". The boss throws aoe before he dives the second time. Sometimes he stays untargetable for >10 seconds throwing mud, then goes down. In between he: 1. grabbed one player awaiting the pull, kills him by that 2. puts that cross on your head = dead for everyone, except a tank. 3. Awaiting the pull you get that huge aoe at your place. If that happens during the pull you simply take of and fly away like a leaf in the wind, ignores block.
Sometimes the boss skips that "10-second-drama" and starts in a splitsecond the 2. pull, maybe simply to make you mad since he recognized you trying to help one of your mates out of that hand ... but tbh I think it´s simply a huge pile of mechanics overlapping in a not intended way, simple bugs.
1) If you get grabbed during the push, nothing will save you. That is a bug and is not scrollable. 2) Tell a DC to use their brain and cast divine armour, you might find you actually live. 3) No clue what you are referring to here.
There is no issue if he starts the 2nd pull fast, just do what you did the first time.
Scrolls of life should have a 10 minute cooldown or be one use per dungeon, or be removed entirely. The reason the devs need to resort to mechanics like the push pull to kill players is because players just ignore other mechanics and then scroll them when they die. If people actually have to learn when to dodge, these types of instant kill mechanics may be less necessary.
1 scroll with a cool down well not sure about that idea i have had to use 3+ scroll just from one death as the aoe or lag would one shot me again before i could do anything not even able to dodge. Yet they really should give like a 3 or 4 second immunity when we use a scroll then that would not be so bad to limit its use.
Scrolls should not exist at all imo, but they will never be removed. They act as a, "oops I messed up, try again" button for bad players and mean you never have to learn the mechanics. I have ran cradle with over 600 ping, dodged the reds and not fallen off. If I can do it, so can you. Most of the time people die, this is why they die:
Step 1) Don't bother to move the debuff AoE away from the party. Step 2) Party does not bother to move outside of the debuff AoE. Step 3) Boss does the 5 small red circles and party doesn't bother to move out of those. Oh well, they died.
Its ok though, they got 2000 scrolls and they can just, "oopsie I messed up" button not dodging.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTF1GNZ6teE . IN that video we can see your friends do pretty well against the boss but wait they use and mass scroll of life so following your logic those are bad players and they cant learn the mechanics.
1)Bad players will die even if a dev log in and give them 999 scrolls for each player. 2) if i use scroll do not affect your gameplay? 3) Using a scroll do not make me a bad player.
Just because they use them in that video, does not mean I condone the use of them and if you took that same group and we did cradle again, no scrolls would be used and the dungeon would be complete. If the push pull did not exist, players could keep pressing scrolls and eventually they would finish the dungeon, regardless of how good or bad they are, so yes, I will say that frequent scroll usage does imply one is a bad player.
Recently I was in a cradle run where 1 player was confused when people didn't use scrolls and complained about it and I was itching to kick them, because I would rather fail with a group that doesn't scroll but knows the mechanic than succeed with a group that scrolls 100 times and doesn't doge at all.
And what are those of us who in EVERY trial from demo onwards aren't given the visual cues for deadly attacks until either after they happen, or at all, supposed to do ? Particularly when that trial is the ONLY way to get some stuff. It happens in the open world too but is rarely fatal there, the smallest red circles from the blue dragonflight dragon being the main exception, they never appear for me till after the damage that goes with them. And I play on a very decent computer with fibre broadband as fast as you're likely to get.
1
thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
Scrolls is not the biggest problem, you simply get grabbed, knocked and oneshotted by running the "donut of pain". The boss throws aoe before he dives the second time. Sometimes he stays untargetable for >10 seconds throwing mud, then goes down. In between he: 1. grabbed one player awaiting the pull, kills him by that 2. puts that cross on your head = dead for everyone, except a tank. 3. Awaiting the pull you get that huge aoe at your place. If that happens during the pull you simply take of and fly away like a leaf in the wind, ignores block.
Sometimes the boss skips that "10-second-drama" and starts in a splitsecond the 2. pull, maybe simply to make you mad since he recognized you trying to help one of your mates out of that hand ... but tbh I think it´s simply a huge pile of mechanics overlapping in a not intended way, simple bugs.
1) If you get grabbed during the push, nothing will save you. That is a bug and is not scrollable. 2) Tell a DC to use their brain and cast divine armour, you might find you actually live. 3) No clue what you are referring to here.
There is no issue if he starts the 2nd pull fast, just do what you did the first time.
Scrolls of life should have a 10 minute cooldown or be one use per dungeon, or be removed entirely. The reason the devs need to resort to mechanics like the push pull to kill players is because players just ignore other mechanics and then scroll them when they die. If people actually have to learn when to dodge, these types of instant kill mechanics may be less necessary.
1 scroll with a cool down well not sure about that idea i have had to use 3+ scroll just from one death as the aoe or lag would one shot me again before i could do anything not even able to dodge. Yet they really should give like a 3 or 4 second immunity when we use a scroll then that would not be so bad to limit its use.
Scrolls should not exist at all imo, but they will never be removed. They act as a, "oops I messed up, try again" button for bad players and mean you never have to learn the mechanics. I have ran cradle with over 600 ping, dodged the reds and not fallen off. If I can do it, so can you. Most of the time people die, this is why they die:
Step 1) Don't bother to move the debuff AoE away from the party. Step 2) Party does not bother to move outside of the debuff AoE. Step 3) Boss does the 5 small red circles and party doesn't bother to move out of those. Oh well, they died.
Its ok though, they got 2000 scrolls and they can just, "oopsie I messed up" button not dodging.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTF1GNZ6teE . IN that video we can see your friends do pretty well against the boss but wait they use and mass scroll of life so following your logic those are bad players and they cant learn the mechanics.
1)Bad players will die even if a dev log in and give them 999 scrolls for each player. 2) if i use scroll do not affect your gameplay? 3) Using a scroll do not make me a bad player.
Just because they use them in that video, does not mean I condone the use of them and if you took that same group and we did cradle again, no scrolls would be used and the dungeon would be complete. If the push pull did not exist, players could keep pressing scrolls and eventually they would finish the dungeon, regardless of how good or bad they are, so yes, I will say that frequent scroll usage does imply one is a bad player.
Recently I was in a cradle run where 1 player was confused when people didn't use scrolls and complained about it and I was itching to kick them, because I would rather fail with a group that doesn't scroll but knows the mechanic than succeed with a group that scrolls 100 times and doesn't doge at all.
And what are those of us who in EVERY trial from demo onwards aren't given the visual cues for deadly attacks until either after they happen, or at all, supposed to do ? Particularly when that trial is the ONLY way to get some stuff. It happens in the open world too but is rarely fatal there, the smallest red circles from the blue dragonflight dragon being the main exception, they never appear for me till after the damage that goes with them. And I play on a very decent computer with fibre broadband as fast as you're likely to get.
A good player can learn visual cues of bosses and dodge regardless of whether there is a red on the floor or not because guess what, they all have tells. If you wanted you could solo cradle with 10000 scrolls, would that make you a good player? No. Would it make it a valid solo? No. Scrolls in my eyes eliminate any valid argument for skill and this game would be better off if they didn't exist. Quite simply, if you have issues running without scrolls, its a problem between the keyboard and the chair and not a problem with the content on the screen.
Scrolls is not the biggest problem, you simply get grabbed, knocked and oneshotted by running the "donut of pain". The boss throws aoe before he dives the second time. Sometimes he stays untargetable for >10 seconds throwing mud, then goes down. In between he: 1. grabbed one player awaiting the pull, kills him by that 2. puts that cross on your head = dead for everyone, except a tank. 3. Awaiting the pull you get that huge aoe at your place. If that happens during the pull you simply take of and fly away like a leaf in the wind, ignores block.
Sometimes the boss skips that "10-second-drama" and starts in a splitsecond the 2. pull, maybe simply to make you mad since he recognized you trying to help one of your mates out of that hand ... but tbh I think it´s simply a huge pile of mechanics overlapping in a not intended way, simple bugs.
1) If you get grabbed during the push, nothing will save you. That is a bug and is not scrollable. 2) Tell a DC to use their brain and cast divine armour, you might find you actually live. 3) No clue what you are referring to here.
There is no issue if he starts the 2nd pull fast, just do what you did the first time.
Scrolls of life should have a 10 minute cooldown or be one use per dungeon, or be removed entirely. The reason the devs need to resort to mechanics like the push pull to kill players is because players just ignore other mechanics and then scroll them when they die. If people actually have to learn when to dodge, these types of instant kill mechanics may be less necessary.
1 scroll with a cool down well not sure about that idea i have had to use 3+ scroll just from one death as the aoe or lag would one shot me again before i could do anything not even able to dodge. Yet they really should give like a 3 or 4 second immunity when we use a scroll then that would not be so bad to limit its use.
Scrolls should not exist at all imo, but they will never be removed. They act as a, "oops I messed up, try again" button for bad players and mean you never have to learn the mechanics. I have ran cradle with over 600 ping, dodged the reds and not fallen off. If I can do it, so can you. Most of the time people die, this is why they die:
Step 1) Don't bother to move the debuff AoE away from the party. Step 2) Party does not bother to move outside of the debuff AoE. Step 3) Boss does the 5 small red circles and party doesn't bother to move out of those. Oh well, they died.
Its ok though, they got 2000 scrolls and they can just, "oopsie I messed up" button not dodging.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTF1GNZ6teE . IN that video we can see your friends do pretty well against the boss but wait they use and mass scroll of life so following your logic those are bad players and they cant learn the mechanics.
1)Bad players will die even if a dev log in and give them 999 scrolls for each player. 2) if i use scroll do not affect your gameplay? 3) Using a scroll do not make me a bad player.
Just because they use them in that video, does not mean I condone the use of them and if you took that same group and we did cradle again, no scrolls would be used and the dungeon would be complete. If the push pull did not exist, players could keep pressing scrolls and eventually they would finish the dungeon, regardless of how good or bad they are, so yes, I will say that frequent scroll usage does imply one is a bad player.
Recently I was in a cradle run where 1 player was confused when people didn't use scrolls and complained about it and I was itching to kick them, because I would rather fail with a group that doesn't scroll but knows the mechanic than succeed with a group that scrolls 100 times and doesn't doge at all.
And what are those of us who in EVERY trial from demo onwards aren't given the visual cues for deadly attacks until either after they happen, or at all, supposed to do ? Particularly when that trial is the ONLY way to get some stuff. It happens in the open world too but is rarely fatal there, the smallest red circles from the blue dragonflight dragon being the main exception, they never appear for me till after the damage that goes with them. And I play on a very decent computer with fibre broadband as fast as you're likely to get.
A good player can learn visual cues of bosses and dodge regardless of whether there is a red on the floor or not because guess what, they all have tells. If you wanted you could solo cradle with 10000 scrolls, would that make you a good player? No. Would it make it a valid solo? No. Scrolls in my eyes eliminate any valid argument for skill and this game would be better off if they didn't exist. Quite simply, if you have issues running without scrolls, its a problem between the keyboard and the chair and not a problem with the content on the screen.
Can we please get real here who in heck uses 1000 scrolls in a run or even 5 scrolls used will cost a player most if all rewards they get from dungeons unless it drops a UES. And what you say only applies if your whole team or almost all are BiS and have full understanding of there role. I would like to see you go into Cradle with all 14 to 16K players with 2 OPs and GFs that are not all so great and then see how well you survive with dodges. I have run on both ends of the spectrum and can say dodging a few aoe is NP when party is BiS but with unskilled OPs and GFs and DCs it can be a nightmare.
Most of my friends are 14-16k, but its nice that you think that last 2k ilvl makes even an iota of difference. 14-16k players can do it just fine because I normally do it with 14-16k players. Group composition of most runs is 3 dps (gf counts as a dps and at least 1 of them will be a gf), 1 do, 1 sw, 1 hr, 1 cw, 2 ac, 1 devo OP. Maybe you're failing because you think you need 4 tanks when a good group runs with 0 (any gfs that are there are there to do dps not tank and are quite glassy).
Scrolls is not the biggest problem, you simply get grabbed, knocked and oneshotted by running the "donut of pain". The boss throws aoe before he dives the second time. Sometimes he stays untargetable for >10 seconds throwing mud, then goes down. In between he: 1. grabbed one player awaiting the pull, kills him by that 2. puts that cross on your head = dead for everyone, except a tank. 3. Awaiting the pull you get that huge aoe at your place. If that happens during the pull you simply take of and fly away like a leaf in the wind, ignores block.
Sometimes the boss skips that "10-second-drama" and starts in a splitsecond the 2. pull, maybe simply to make you mad since he recognized you trying to help one of your mates out of that hand ... but tbh I think it´s simply a huge pile of mechanics overlapping in a not intended way, simple bugs.
1) If you get grabbed during the push, nothing will save you. That is a bug and is not scrollable. 2) Tell a DC to use their brain and cast divine armour, you might find you actually live. 3) No clue what you are referring to here.
There is no issue if he starts the 2nd pull fast, just do what you did the first time.
Scrolls of life should have a 10 minute cooldown or be one use per dungeon, or be removed entirely. The reason the devs need to resort to mechanics like the push pull to kill players is because players just ignore other mechanics and then scroll them when they die. If people actually have to learn when to dodge, these types of instant kill mechanics may be less necessary.
1 scroll with a cool down well not sure about that idea i have had to use 3+ scroll just from one death as the aoe or lag would one shot me again before i could do anything not even able to dodge. Yet they really should give like a 3 or 4 second immunity when we use a scroll then that would not be so bad to limit its use.
Scrolls should not exist at all imo, but they will never be removed. They act as a, "oops I messed up, try again" button for bad players and mean you never have to learn the mechanics. I have ran cradle with over 600 ping, dodged the reds and not fallen off. If I can do it, so can you. Most of the time people die, this is why they die:
Step 1) Don't bother to move the debuff AoE away from the party. Step 2) Party does not bother to move outside of the debuff AoE. Step 3) Boss does the 5 small red circles and party doesn't bother to move out of those. Oh well, they died.
Its ok though, they got 2000 scrolls and they can just, "oopsie I messed up" button not dodging.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTF1GNZ6teE . IN that video we can see your friends do pretty well against the boss but wait they use and mass scroll of life so following your logic those are bad players and they cant learn the mechanics.
1)Bad players will die even if a dev log in and give them 999 scrolls for each player. 2) if i use scroll do not affect your gameplay? 3) Using a scroll do not make me a bad player.
Just because they use them in that video, does not mean I condone the use of them and if you took that same group and we did cradle again, no scrolls would be used and the dungeon would be complete. If the push pull did not exist, players could keep pressing scrolls and eventually they would finish the dungeon, regardless of how good or bad they are, so yes, I will say that frequent scroll usage does imply one is a bad player.
Recently I was in a cradle run where 1 player was confused when people didn't use scrolls and complained about it and I was itching to kick them, because I would rather fail with a group that doesn't scroll but knows the mechanic than succeed with a group that scrolls 100 times and doesn't doge at all.
And what are those of us who in EVERY trial from demo onwards aren't given the visual cues for deadly attacks until either after they happen, or at all, supposed to do ? Particularly when that trial is the ONLY way to get some stuff. It happens in the open world too but is rarely fatal there, the smallest red circles from the blue dragonflight dragon being the main exception, they never appear for me till after the damage that goes with them. And I play on a very decent computer with fibre broadband as fast as you're likely to get.
A good player can learn visual cues of bosses and dodge regardless of whether there is a red on the floor or not because guess what, they all have tells. If you wanted you could solo cradle with 10000 scrolls, would that make you a good player? No. Would it make it a valid solo? No. Scrolls in my eyes eliminate any valid argument for skill and this game would be better off if they didn't exist. Quite simply, if you have issues running without scrolls, its a problem between the keyboard and the chair and not a problem with the content on the screen.
Can we please get real here who in heck uses 1000 scrolls in a run or even 5 scrolls used will cost a player most if all rewards they get from dungeons unless it drops a UES. And what you say only applies if your whole team or almost all are BiS and have full understanding of there role. I would like to see you go into Cradle with all 14 to 16K players with 2 OPs and GFs that are not all so great and then see how well you survive with dodges. I have run on both ends of the spectrum and can say dodging a few aoe is NP when party is BiS but with unskilled OPs and GFs and DCs it can be a nightmare.
Most of my friends are 14-16k, but its nice that you think that last 2k ilvl makes even an iota of difference. 14-16k players can do it just fine because I normally do it with 14-16k players. Group composition of most runs is 3 dps (gf counts as a dps and at least 1 of them will be a gf), 1 do, 1 sw, 1 hr, 1 cw, 2 ac, 1 devo OP. Maybe you're failing because you think you need 4 tanks when a good group runs with 0 (any gfs that are there are there to do dps not tank and are quite glassy).
Who says i am failing besides you? I make plenty of good runs most between 10 to 14 minutes? Same with you saying i said i need 4 tanks. 1 OP is devo and other prot just as one GF is buff other is DPS. You sure do like to make up your own ideas of what i say. Guess one of the big differences is the people i tend to run with don't have the elitist attitude with such needs to kick others from group. OMG the OP did not use bane at the right time "kick" OMG the AC forgot to bind Exult "kick" OMG that person dodge to late "kick" What he used a Scroll 'kick" I have turned down many invites for cradle from people like you and don't care to run with elitist that get hell bent over any little issue they can find. Also after about 4 or 5 runs it becomes so boring.
So you have 2 wasted party slots? The tactician gf and the protection OP? (wasted in the sense that in an optimal party neither would be there, not in the sense that you need to run an ideal party composition all the time). And contrary to what you believe I am not some elitist snob who vote kicks people for messing up, because everyone makes mistakes. Nor do I kick people for not using specific keybinds or specific builds. Go back and read what I wrote carefully. I will quite happily vote kick someone who is complaining that other people in the group are not using scrolls however, since that is literally complaining that people aren't willing to waste their own ad when they mess up.
In Path of Exile, when you create a character on a hardcore league, you are given a warning that goes something along the lines of, "you are aware that if you die, even if it is due to server/connection lag etc, your character will be moved to the standard league and under no circumstances will it be returned to the hardcore league." We don't have something like that in NW but the difference in mentality is quite stark. Yeah, it sucks if you die to latency (and I promise you, my connection is worse than yours, I play from South Africa on 300+ping), but you don't get a free card for it. The same I feel should be true for challenging endgame content in NW. Sure, every so often you will die due to lag, but its not the end of the world, try again. Scrolls are quite literally the antithesis to skilled gameplay and they should be removed from the game. I honestly feel like if you scroll to finish something, you don't deserve the loot in the chest.
Sure, the content itself is also flawed. Cradle should have a campfire before the final boss and the elevator should have a boss on the inside, also, that cutscene should be skippable, but 2 wrongs doesn't make a right (scrolling is not justified by poor content design).
> @grrouper said: > Can we please get real here who in heck uses 1000 scrolls in a run or even 5 scrolls used will cost a player most if all rewards they get from dungeons unless it drops a UES. And what you say only applies if your whole team or almost all are BiS and have full understanding of there role. I would like to see you go into Cradle with all 14 to 16K players with 2 OPs and GFs that are not all so great and then see how well you survive with dodges. I have run on both ends of the spectrum and can say dodging a few aoe is NP when party is BiS but with unskilled OPs and GFs and DCs it can be a nightmare.
so are u saying to mass use scrolls is justified when u have no skill?
Coercing or intimidating a player to use scrolls is bad behaviour, and I agree with @thefabricant with that.
While having a team which understands the mechanics and works well together is ideal, this is not often the case with many groups I have been in.
I find scrolls useful if you have limited time and/or a suboptimal group and just want to get the content finished so that you can move on.
In my experience, I have completed CODG with groups that haven't used scrolls, and groups that have. And I can tell you, there has been many a time I have been thankful for that person that has used a scroll to save the group and defeat Atropal.
Maybe only 2 DPS or maybe 4 or could be 3 i really don't make the parties i run with anyways. But you seem to not understand that getting a perfect composition is not all that easy for most players. Just because you don't seem to have them problems then nobody else in game should either. But there are not that many that do know how to play their class at optimal level. And understand what buff or powers is best to be used along with another class or when to use them, Many just want to play the game have some fun and not turn into something more than that. Still each time a person waste a scroll the less rewards they will get at the end so that should be enough punishment or compensation for a "poor" player finishing a dungeon.
Mechanics like the push/pull are only necessary because scrolls exist. The same with "call of the atropal" in tong, it acts as a scroll killer. These mechanics are added to address a problem that only exists because an item exists that bypasses mechanics otherwise. If you want beating endgame content in NW to "mean something" then you need to get rid of scrolls and yes there are people who use 20+ scrolls in a run, you may not have met them but I have.
Scrolls is not the biggest problem, you simply get grabbed, knocked and oneshotted by running the "donut of pain". The boss throws aoe before he dives the second time. Sometimes he stays untargetable for >10 seconds throwing mud, then goes down. In between he: 1. grabbed one player awaiting the pull, kills him by that 2. puts that cross on your head = dead for everyone, except a tank. 3. Awaiting the pull you get that huge aoe at your place. If that happens during the pull you simply take of and fly away like a leaf in the wind, ignores block.
Sometimes the boss skips that "10-second-drama" and starts in a splitsecond the 2. pull, maybe simply to make you mad since he recognized you trying to help one of your mates out of that hand ... but tbh I think it´s simply a huge pile of mechanics overlapping in a not intended way, simple bugs.
1) If you get grabbed during the push, nothing will save you. That is a bug and is not scrollable. 2) Tell a DC to use their brain and cast divine armour, you might find you actually live. 3) No clue what you are referring to here.
There is no issue if he starts the 2nd pull fast, just do what you did the first time.
Scrolls of life should have a 10 minute cooldown or be one use per dungeon, or be removed entirely. The reason the devs need to resort to mechanics like the push pull to kill players is because players just ignore other mechanics and then scroll them when they die. If people actually have to learn when to dodge, these types of instant kill mechanics may be less necessary.
1 scroll with a cool down well not sure about that idea i have had to use 3+ scroll just from one death as the aoe or lag would one shot me again before i could do anything not even able to dodge. Yet they really should give like a 3 or 4 second immunity when we use a scroll then that would not be so bad to limit its use.
Scrolls should not exist at all imo, but they will never be removed. They act as a, "oops I messed up, try again" button for bad players and mean you never have to learn the mechanics. I have ran cradle with over 600 ping, dodged the reds and not fallen off. If I can do it, so can you. Most of the time people die, this is why they die:
Step 1) Don't bother to move the debuff AoE away from the party. Step 2) Party does not bother to move outside of the debuff AoE. Step 3) Boss does the 5 small red circles and party doesn't bother to move out of those. Oh well, they died.
Its ok though, they got 2000 scrolls and they can just, "oopsie I messed up" button not dodging.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTF1GNZ6teE . IN that video we can see your friends do pretty well against the boss but wait they use and mass scroll of life so following your logic those are bad players and they cant learn the mechanics.
1)Bad players will die even if a dev log in and give them 999 scrolls for each player. 2) if i use scroll do not affect your gameplay? 3) Using a scroll do not make me a bad player.
Just because they use them in that video, does not mean I condone the use of them and if you took that same group and we did cradle again, no scrolls would be used and the dungeon would be complete. If the push pull did not exist, players could keep pressing scrolls and eventually they would finish the dungeon, regardless of how good or bad they are, so yes, I will say that frequent scroll usage does imply one is a bad player.
Recently I was in a cradle run where 1 player was confused when people didn't use scrolls and complained about it and I was itching to kick them, because I would rather fail with a group that doesn't scroll but knows the mechanic than succeed with a group that scrolls 100 times and doesn't doge at all.
And what are those of us who in EVERY trial from demo onwards aren't given the visual cues for deadly attacks until either after they happen, or at all, supposed to do ? Particularly when that trial is the ONLY way to get some stuff. It happens in the open world too but is rarely fatal there, the smallest red circles from the blue dragonflight dragon being the main exception, they never appear for me till after the damage that goes with them. And I play on a very decent computer with fibre broadband as fast as you're likely to get.
A good player can learn visual cues of bosses and dodge regardless of whether there is a red on the floor or not because guess what, they all have tells. If you wanted you could solo cradle with 10000 scrolls, would that make you a good player? No. Would it make it a valid solo? No. Scrolls in my eyes eliminate any valid argument for skill and this game would be better off if they didn't exist. Quite simply, if you have issues running without scrolls, its a problem between the keyboard and the chair and not a problem with the content on the screen.
I would agree, IF THOSE CUES ACTUALLY HAPPENED, on some occasions they don't or are delayed. It's a major problem with laggy mechanics. Example the orange eye gaze attack indicator in fane is hitting me when I'm on screen in a position where it should not because it's appearing late and lasting way beyond when the effect actually goes off. Rocks from the frost giants are hitting me when on my screen I'm out of the effect by twice the diameter of the effect.
> Can we please get real here who in heck uses 1000 scrolls in a run or even 5 scrolls used will cost a player most if all rewards they get from dungeons unless it drops a UES. And what you say only applies if your whole team or almost all are BiS and have full understanding of there role. I would like to see you go into Cradle with all 14 to 16K players with 2 OPs and GFs that are not all so great and then see how well you survive with dodges. I have run on both ends of the spectrum and can say dodging a few aoe is NP when party is BiS but with unskilled OPs and GFs and DCs it can be a nightmare.
so are u saying to mass use scrolls is justified when u have no skill?
Where did you read me saying that? I don't see anything of the such. But are you saying when you die and don't use a scroll you do have skill
what i got from your text was its justified to use scrolls when u have a bad party "OPs and GFs that are not all so great". If you think otherwhise pls formulate your opinion on scrolls in a clear way.
And where did i say dying means u are skilled? Im of the opinion that u got skill when u do it without scrolls. Spamming scrolls basicly means u cant do it without. So i would agrue that u therefore dont deserve the loot. A party with unskilled players shouldnt be able to just overpower it with scrolls. They should work to do better so they can succeed without using scrolls.
Some got lags, some can´t see the visuals, some can´t dodge and some simply think that red "sauce" gives them a buff and feels somehow warm under their feet.. In the end all the groups I joined tried to finish that dungeon.
If a player decides to use a scroll I won´t blame him and I would thank him to do so if we complete that dungeon instead of redoing it again and again in a somehow weaker group. This is an expensive way to run codg and the player itself knows that he does not look skilled doing it 20 times in a run, same as the player that does not use any scrolls can knock himself on the shoulder being such a skilled player.. congrats YOU made it . What is more an annoyance are those broken mechanics - grab, onehits, knocks and the delay of his animations when diving -annyoing and please getting fixed in short. Same as I really hope cryptic will decide to stop those inisgnia from stacking to sill ammounts, like they do now ... 100.000 movement? Not necessary in this game and really a big annyonance in the actual content, buggy somehow. So in case that boss "cheats on me" I sure will use that scroll to get it done, if I know I can absolve that run doing so. Normally I dodge that aoe, but in a group of 10 player on one spot standing in CoP, PoP etc it is hard to detect sometimes. Feels more like you have to "anticipate it incoming" sometime. Whoever got issues with lags or bad eyes, absolutely understandable. And who ever runs that trial should know that the "small aoe" tends to be chained up 3 times in a row pretty often, ending my DC dodging from one "hot spot" to the next, dropping the next spot for my teammate, my GF blocking and my warlock flying away sometimes (thx insignia).
I joined lot´s of stronger groups where weaker player were carried thought that dungeon several times in a row. I was honestly surprised how patiently and friendly the runs are in a whole. Sure some do rant , few are pretty ugly, most simply leave when they recognize it´s a waste of time. I run random and with friends or a mix of both and avoid to run exclusively with one fix set of skilled player, no need to play an mmo-rpg otherwise. This is about bits and bites and a huge ammount of wasted time, no reason to be elitist only bc you mastered your way of wasting time with bits and bites.
@grrouper im not saying u suck cause u used a scroll 1 times cause an unavoidable aoe caught u. Spamming scrolls refers to the partys (they exist even if you apperently never met such a party) that for example dont care about the debuff aoe nor bother to dodge the little aoes cause they will just spam 20-30 scrolls and everything is fine. Some ppl wont even consider picking u up cause u are expected to use scrolls. Cant imagine u are all for that behaviour.
Some ppl wont even consider picking u up cause u are expected to use scrolls. Cant imagine u are all for that behaviour.
Some players have actually yelled at me for ressing them manually instead of letting them use a scroll, because (and I always forget this) it might give them a resurrection sickness and "a scroll is just 6k lol"...
So, while I would like to help others by ressing them, I won't unless they spam SHIFT+1 because tempers heat up in that trial easily enough.
If I see anyone in my party using a Soulforged they are getting the boot since its power resembles an instant revive like that of a scroll.
Soulforged has an internal cooldown that prevents it from continually reviving you if you die over and over again...Which was, incidentally, precisely one of the things I proposed for scrolls.
If I see anyone in my party using a Soulforged they are getting the boot since its power resembles an instant revive like that of a scroll.
Soulforged has an internal cooldown that prevents it from continually reviving you if you die over and over again...Which was, incidentally, precisely one of the things I proposed for scrolls.
And then you follow it up with.... (Scrolls should not exist at all imo, but they will never be removed. They act as a, "oops I messed up, try again" button for bad players and mean you never have to learn the mechanics. I have ran cradle with over 600 ping, dodged the reds and not fallen off. If I can do it, so can you. Most of the time people die, this is why they die) ..... That i find personally insulting.
They also act as "the game messed up" resets, and this also happens pretty frequently whether it's lag or flat out bugs.
Comments
In comparison to previous mods, e.g. Trial of Svardborg, there was a normal version where you could just re-join the party if you died, and then a Master version, which got you the ultimate marks to restore your weapons but if you died, you were out for that fight.
I really think that CODG needs to have a normal and master version as well. A normal version to help players learn the mechanics without having to repeat everything beforehand (by just rejoining the fight until a timer is up), and the master version for getting the Carvings, Ampoules etc.
That attack hits you 3 to 4 times and takes far, far more than 80% of your HP and normally you should group up.. in a phase everyone runs like a chicken.
If that devine armor should last that long at all...6 seconds, you have to be very lucky to get that coordinated if not that DC allready vanished to the other side of the donut since he does/prepares for his dodging maneuvres.
The boss goes untargetable for >10 second sometimes, mostly before second pull, and spits every known aoe , the huge one about 50" or more (not mentioned at the page not to be named btw), beside the grab, the blue vortex/debuff and the small aoe (oneshots).
It´s huge cc effect also experienced during the fight.
If you stand at the edge and he drops that huge aoe on you and starts his pull immidiately, you either have to be very fast to run out that zone or you get knocked (or call it lift in the air) ignoring block (not dodge I guess) and get a free flight if coupled with the immidiate incoming pull.
You have to be very lucky to avoid the lift and the pull together, honestly it´s impossible for some classes.
It looks like an acrobatic huge backflip in the center of that hole, that's what i refer to and it happens pretty often.
Your team get´s deminihed by being grabbed and die, since the boss took his time, and they were forced to revive in the pullphase, or fly away from that pull/aoe combination, or simply drop off because they started to free their neighbour from the grabbing hand and were suprised by one of those "instant no look pulls", awaiting the "10 second drama" as normally...
Anyway I think it´s pointless to ask for adaption by the player to an obviously broken betastate of a dungeon.
If I help pay to keep the game free to play, then I feel I should be allowed to win without having to put effort into playing.
Why must you be so cruel and want to take this fine ability away from me?
It almost never occurred to me actually to use rez scrolls until CoDG came out. Once in a blue moon I'd pop one to save newbies at Ras Nsi, but that was about it.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
IN that video we can see your friends do pretty well against the boss but wait they use and mass scroll of life so following your logic those are bad players and they cant learn the mechanics.
1)Bad players will die even if a dev log in and give them 999 scrolls for each player.
2) if i use scroll do not affect your gameplay?
3) Using a scroll do not make me a bad player.
I don´t dare to move at all, when I accidentally press w-a-s-d two times in a row , I fly away with 100mph from that donut of pain.
Recently I was in a cradle run where 1 player was confused when people didn't use scrolls and complained about it and I was itching to kick them, because I would rather fail with a group that doesn't scroll but knows the mechanic than succeed with a group that scrolls 100 times and doesn't doge at all.
In Path of Exile, when you create a character on a hardcore league, you are given a warning that goes something along the lines of, "you are aware that if you die, even if it is due to server/connection lag etc, your character will be moved to the standard league and under no circumstances will it be returned to the hardcore league." We don't have something like that in NW but the difference in mentality is quite stark. Yeah, it sucks if you die to latency (and I promise you, my connection is worse than yours, I play from South Africa on 300+ping), but you don't get a free card for it. The same I feel should be true for challenging endgame content in NW. Sure, every so often you will die due to lag, but its not the end of the world, try again. Scrolls are quite literally the antithesis to skilled gameplay and they should be removed from the game. I honestly feel like if you scroll to finish something, you don't deserve the loot in the chest.
Sure, the content itself is also flawed. Cradle should have a campfire before the final boss and the elevator should have a boss on the inside, also, that cutscene should be skippable, but 2 wrongs doesn't make a right (scrolling is not justified by poor content design).
> Can we please get real here who in heck uses 1000 scrolls in a run or even 5 scrolls used will cost a player most if all rewards they get from dungeons unless it drops a UES. And what you say only applies if your whole team or almost all are BiS and have full understanding of there role. I would like to see you go into Cradle with all 14 to 16K players with 2 OPs and GFs that are not all so great and then see how well you survive with dodges. I have run on both ends of the spectrum and can say dodging a few aoe is NP when party is BiS but with unskilled OPs and GFs and DCs it can be a nightmare.
so are u saying to mass use scrolls is justified when u have no skill?
While having a team which understands the mechanics and works well together is ideal, this is not often the case with many groups I have been in.
I find scrolls useful if you have limited time and/or a suboptimal group and just want to get the content finished so that you can move on.
In my experience, I have completed CODG with groups that haven't used scrolls, and groups that have. And I can tell you, there has been many a time I have been thankful for that person that has used a scroll to save the group and defeat Atropal.
If you think otherwhise pls formulate your opinion on scrolls in a clear way.
And where did i say dying means u are skilled?
Im of the opinion that u got skill when u do it without scrolls. Spamming scrolls basicly means u cant do it without. So i would agrue that u therefore dont deserve the loot. A party with unskilled players shouldnt be able to just overpower it with scrolls. They should work to do better so they can succeed without using scrolls.
If a player decides to use a scroll I won´t blame him and I would thank him to do so if we complete that dungeon instead of redoing it again and again in a somehow weaker group. This is an expensive way to run codg and the player itself knows that he does not look skilled doing it 20 times in a run, same as the player that does not use any scrolls can knock himself on the shoulder being such a skilled player.. congrats YOU made it
What is more an annoyance are those broken mechanics - grab, onehits, knocks and the delay of his animations when diving -annyoing and please getting fixed in short.
Same as I really hope cryptic will decide to stop those inisgnia from stacking to sill ammounts, like they do now ... 100.000 movement?
Not necessary in this game and really a big annyonance in the actual content, buggy somehow.
So in case that boss "cheats on me" I sure will use that scroll to get it done, if I know I can absolve that run doing so.
Normally I dodge that aoe, but in a group of 10 player on one spot standing in CoP, PoP etc it is hard to detect sometimes. Feels more like you have to "anticipate it incoming" sometime. Whoever got issues with lags or bad eyes, absolutely understandable.
And who ever runs that trial should know that the "small aoe" tends to be chained up 3 times in a row pretty often, ending my DC dodging from one "hot spot" to the next, dropping the next spot for my teammate, my GF blocking and my warlock flying away sometimes (thx insignia).
I joined lot´s of stronger groups where weaker player were carried thought that dungeon several times in a row. I was honestly surprised how patiently and friendly the runs are in a whole. Sure some do rant , few are pretty ugly, most simply leave when they recognize it´s a waste of time.
I run random and with friends or a mix of both and avoid to run exclusively with one fix set of skilled player, no need to play an mmo-rpg otherwise. This is about bits and bites and a huge ammount of wasted time, no reason to be elitist only bc you mastered your way of wasting time with bits and bites.
So, while I would like to help others by ressing them, I won't unless they spam SHIFT+1 because tempers heat up in that trial easily enough.
If I see anyone in my party using a Soulforged they are getting the boot since its power resembles an instant revive like that of a scroll.