Tong is limited to few people (15kiL+) with specific classes (DC,GF,OP,CW mof) and specs...

sundance777

thefabricant said:

First boss -> hp curse gives 1900% of actual HP as temp hp, if a player with say 200k hp takes it, they will have 3.8M temp hp. Every time they walk into the ball, 100k is removed, so, just starting off, you have enough temp hp to run into 38 balls. Sometimes it bugs and removes more than 100k, however if you dodge into a ball when you are consuming it, the iframe can actually prevent you from losing any temp hp at all, so dodge into every ball. Shielded HP is removed before temp hp. In a slow group, an OP can use skills like absolution on whoever has the temp hp buff, which will be removed before the temp hp. Alternatively, if you have lion, you can lion before you run into balls. Flat mitigation occurs before temp hp as well, so barkshield will also mitigate ball damage. Multiplicative DR layers also occur before the damage, so if a GF has it, they can shift to reduce the damage by 80%. Finally, as a last resort, an OP can take the temp hp buff and refresh it indefinitely with templar's wrath. Any combination of these tactics will basically ensure success, you can even 2 man orcus using a combination of these tactics and a patient OP can probably solo it.

Thanks for explaining some of these options, I have only been in there once, I am waiting for our 12b mod before running a bit more frequently, and the group I was with was discouraged because they felt like they did not have enough dps for Orcus. This gives me plenty of ideas how to be more successful at this boss. My one and only run so far it was a little hard to tell exactly what was the best approach and I have been meaning to try it again. Thanks again!

gromovnipljesak

@thefabricant
That's exactly my point. For instance, let's take a dungeon that is really easy now, but when released, was ridiculously hard. Namely, ECC (and to some extent EGWD). Back then you couldn't melt the boss. You'd have to have a good tank because those bombs ECC boss throws can still wreck HAMSTER, and you'd HAVE to have a healer because of the fire - it does a lot of damage too, and there was no way to out-heal it with lifesteal.
EGWD required a god-tier tank because of how hard that boss hits, and the fact that you had to endure the part while the boss didn't take any damage.
Heck, even ETOS was actually hard from the start, and not because you had to kill the boss or something quick enough, but because you'd have to worry about 50 billion things.

And now, TONG. 1st boss, don't kill the boss fast enough? Outta temp HP. 2nd boss, don't kill dwarves quick enough? Well your entire party is dead. 3rd boss, don't kill souls quick enough? HAMSTER you, here's a massive party OHKO wipe thing.

Those are NOT mechanics, those are annoyances. And they're making classes redundant with that. You can finish TONG without a tank or a DPS class (we all still remember those russian guys melting in 15 secs, right?). Everything is a DPS race now. If you can't kill quick enough, you're dead. I can promise you that MSP would be the most often run dungeon if it wasn't so god damned laggy. 2nd boss is an annoyance, sure, but once you start understanding the mechanics and everyone is doing the role they're supposed to, you'll be fine. And that just says it all, doesn't it? We GOT a bossfight that requires mechanics, but everyone wrote it off as annoying/boring.

pitshade

I wrote off MSP as a waste of time because it was demonstrated to me that the only mechanic you need for 2cd boss is 'Stack Buffs+WIN'. Otherwise, I have watched a GF solo it. It is a garbage boss, probably the worst in NW history. No teamwork required, just don't get knocked off.

thefabricant

gromovnipljesak#8234 said:

@thefabricant
That's exactly my point. For instance, let's take a dungeon that is really easy now, but when released, was ridiculously hard. Namely, ECC (and to some extent EGWD). Back then you couldn't melt the boss. You'd have to have a good tank because those bombs ECC boss throws can still wreck HAMSTER, and you'd HAVE to have a healer because of the fire - it does a lot of damage too, and there was no way to out-heal it with lifesteal.
EGWD required a god-tier tank because of how hard that boss hits, and the fact that you had to endure the part while the boss didn't take any damage.
Heck, even ETOS was actually hard from the start, and not because you had to kill the boss or something quick enough, but because you'd have to worry about 50 billion things.

And now, TONG. 1st boss, don't kill the boss fast enough? Outta temp HP. 2nd boss, don't kill dwarves quick enough? Well your entire party is dead. 3rd boss, don't kill souls quick enough? HAMSTER you, here's a massive party OHKO wipe thing.

Those are NOT mechanics, those are annoyances. And they're making classes redundant with that. You can finish TONG without a tank or a DPS class (we all still remember those russian guys melting in 15 secs, right?). Everything is a DPS race now. If you can't kill quick enough, you're dead. I can promise you that MSP would be the most often run dungeon if it wasn't so god damned laggy. 2nd boss is an annoyance, sure, but once you start understanding the mechanics and everyone is doing the role they're supposed to, you'll be fine. And that just says it all, doesn't it? We GOT a bossfight that requires mechanics, but everyone wrote it off as annoying/boring.

You are not reading what I wrote. It is quite possible to survive at the first and 3rd boss for VERY long periods of time if you know what you are doing. The temp HP mechanic in tong is NOT a dps race, it is just that you can dps race to bypass doing it carefully. For the first boss at the very least you can potentially survive indefinitely with enough care.

gromovnipljesak

thefabricant said:

gromovnipljesak#8234 said:

@thefabricant
That's exactly my point. For instance, let's take a dungeon that is really easy now, but when released, was ridiculously hard. Namely, ECC (and to some extent EGWD). Back then you couldn't melt the boss. You'd have to have a good tank because those bombs ECC boss throws can still wreck HAMSTER, and you'd HAVE to have a healer because of the fire - it does a lot of damage too, and there was no way to out-heal it with lifesteal.
EGWD required a god-tier tank because of how hard that boss hits, and the fact that you had to endure the part while the boss didn't take any damage.
Heck, even ETOS was actually hard from the start, and not because you had to kill the boss or something quick enough, but because you'd have to worry about 50 billion things.

And now, TONG. 1st boss, don't kill the boss fast enough? Outta temp HP. 2nd boss, don't kill dwarves quick enough? Well your entire party is dead. 3rd boss, don't kill souls quick enough? HAMSTER you, here's a massive party OHKO wipe thing.

Those are NOT mechanics, those are annoyances. And they're making classes redundant with that. You can finish TONG without a tank or a DPS class (we all still remember those russian guys melting in 15 secs, right?). Everything is a DPS race now. If you can't kill quick enough, you're dead. I can promise you that MSP would be the most often run dungeon if it wasn't so god damned laggy. 2nd boss is an annoyance, sure, but once you start understanding the mechanics and everyone is doing the role they're supposed to, you'll be fine. And that just says it all, doesn't it? We GOT a bossfight that requires mechanics, but everyone wrote it off as annoying/boring.

You are not reading what I wrote. It is quite possible to survive at the first and 3rd boss for VERY long periods of time if you know what you are doing. The temp HP mechanic in tong is NOT a dps race, it is just that you can dps race to bypass doing it carefully. For the first boss at the very least you can potentially survive indefinitely with enough care.

You're missing one thing. It wouldn't be a DPS race if done right, and if the stars are aligned and a baby is not crying somewhere on planet earth, because there's an approximately infinite amount of times that I ran out of the pushing attack thing he does, only to get pushed anyways. Heck I even once got pushed while clearly standing out of the red from start to finish, but whatever. (also a few times happened that he just insta-pushes what looked weird.)

@pitshade
No, that's not the only mechanic. The thing is, everything comes down to a "stack buffs and win" in the late game, but when people cant melt it in 10 seconds, they have to do the mechanics. And people don't like that. Mostly because of lag but who gives a damn. You've gotta worry about positioning, about avoiding that long-HAMSTER stuns, those mirrors, the jump thing that pushes you off... while last boss in tong is just kill everything and you should be fine. The only actual mechanic it has is the tilting platform (for context, a mechanic involves doing something OTHER than any specific class role). Orcus buffs ain't it.

kreatyve

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