Does anyone really like the Random Queues?

adinosii

After a few days of playing and listening to comments, it seems to me that nobody really likes the Random Queues, or feels they make the game better in any way.

Maybe I'm wrong, and if you really like the Random Queues, please let us know why.

Here is what I am hearing:

• People still leveling up are HAMSTERed-off because of L70s that speedrun through the leveling dungeons.
  
• L70s that have not unlocked everything are HAMSTERed-off because they are the ones who really need the AD and the drops, and they now have a choice between RQ for leveling dungeons (with AD, but bad drops), or normal queue for the epic dungeons (with better drops but no AD).
  
• L70s that do not have unlimited playing time are HAMSTERed-off because the epic Random Queue might force them into something that takes a very long time, in particular when the group has several people that barely meet the minimum requirements.
  
• People that actually run the random queues are HAMSTERed-off because if someone quits, it takes a VERY long time to get an automatic replacement.
  
• People that actually like to run semi-challenging content are HAMSTERed-off because the system pushes them into running non-challenging, non-rewarding leveling dungeons.
  
• People that like to run with any combination of classes are HAMSTERed-off because the system imposes the "1 tank, 1 healer, 3 dps" - so for example in a guild like ours where many people would just take the first 4 that expressed interest, we now have to refuse people because they are the "wrong class".
  
• Players with unusual builds, are HAMSTERed-off because the system does not allow them to fill the slot they want to fill - in particular DPS-GFs (which are always considered tanks, not DPS) and Temptation SWs (which are always considered DPS, not healers).
  

So...is there something to like? Please tell me.

marv700

But but but queues are firing faster. That is all they care about.

zomak

marv700#9957 said:

But but but queues are firing faster. That is all they care about.

This is in fact the one good thing that came from this. But does this really matter if you pull a tough dungeon with a minimal group and the tank and healer immediately disconnect?

Don't forget the levels 70s still under 10k IL

marv700

I wouldn't say it's a "good" thing. Just because a queue fires, doesn't mean the team it put together is even remotely capable of completing the content. Just to venture a guess, I'd say the vast majority of true random queues (without a preselected group randomly queueing together), ends in a failure.

The minimum dungeon requirements are just way too low for the average player. An experienced 10IL player with a good build can probably do them, but not a 10K with a bad build that isn't proficient in their class. Throw 3 or 4 of these in a run and it's just not going to succeed unless the 5th person can essentially solo the dungeon.

Either way, this is just plain stupid and worthless.

preechr

adinosii said:

After a few days of playing and listening to comments, it seems to me that nobody really likes the Random Queues, or feels they make the game better in any way.

Maybe I'm wrong, and if you really like the Random Queues, please let us know why.

Here is what I am hearing:

• People still leveling up are HAMSTERed-off because of L70s that speedrun through the leveling dungeons.
  
• L70s that have not unlocked everything are HAMSTERed-off because they are the ones who really need the AD and the drops, and they now have a choice between RQ for leveling dungeons (with AD, but bad drops), or normal queue for the epic dungeons (with better drops but no AD).
  
• L70s that do not have unlimited playing time are HAMSTERed-off because the epic Random Queue might force them into something that takes a very long time, in particular when the group has several people that barely meet the minimum requirements.
  
• People that actually run the random queues are HAMSTERed-off because if someone quits, it takes a VERY long time to get an automatic replacement.
  
• People that actually like to run semi-challenging content are HAMSTERed-off because the system pushes them into running non-challenging, non-rewarding leveling dungeons.
  
• People that like to run with any combination of HAMSTERes are pissed-off because the system imposes the "1 tank, 1 healer, 3 dps" - so for example in a guild like ours where many people would just take the first 4 that expressed interest, we now have to refuse people because they are the "wrong class".
  
• Players with unusual builds, are HAMSTERed-off because the system does not allow them to fill the slot they want to fill - in particular DPS-GFs (which are always considered tanks, not DPS) and Temptation SWs (which are always considered DPS, not healers.
  

So...is there something to like? Please tell me.

You misplaced one of your HAMSTERS, and now I am offended by your post, and thus I love the new RQ system

Everyone is leaving the game and SWs stink because of your HAMSTER

adinosii

preechr#2215 said:

You misplaced one of your HAMSTERS, and now I am offended by your post, and thus I love the new RQ system

Ooops..... hamster relocation project starting.

ecrana

marv700#9957 said:

But but but queues are firing faster. That is all they care about.

+1

I've taken the liberty of imaging how the results of the new mod will be sold to higher ups.

Dumb Decision Maker A: "Are people running all our content now?"
Bumbling Buffoon B: "They most surely are"
A: "That's great. And queues are popping at a reasonable rate?"
B: "That's right! Average wait times have dropped dramatically"
A: "What's this I see in the stats here? This huge spike over on the right diagram?"
B: "Oh thats nothing sir. It just...the...abandon..rate"
A: "Wow. That is drastic."
B: "Yes, yes I know i know. BUT look at how quickly the queue pops when the guys that just abandoned have to requeue! It's such a short wait and they're all right back in a queue."
A: "Hmmmmmm....that...is.....AWESOME! Now the players are right back in a new queue almost instantly after they've abandoned. I'd call this a win-win. Good job!"

preechr

lol... Unfortunately, its all too common that big sweeping policy changes in any company only exist to create a chart with a line that goes up for a board meeting... If that's the case for RQs, I hope once they get that chart and the big win is celebrated, they can fix it so it makes sense

I still say a big unstated goal here was to keep up the head count in Mod 10 without actually re-working it so people would want to do it

jonkoca

Meh, just added about 20 mins to the daily ad grind, I queue for one random levelling dungeon, 1 random skirmish, then go do 2xetos/2xesot as usual for salvage.

Wouldn't go near the epic dungeon random q with a bargepole.

greywynd

It doesn't bother me much. I've been the leveling caught up in a 70's speed run. I've been the 70 with levelers.

What bothers me the most is the epic runs; some yahoo comes in as a replacement, doesn't check the party first, and decides run-and-pull is the best method of running the dungeon. Yep, party wiped because he wasn't as good as he thought he was.

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zomak

> @joe123thewayward said:
> The random queve AD situation is a really bad idea. Its up with mod 10 voinblood on the bad idea scale.

No it's worse because at least mod 10 and voninblod were optional. Random queue is mandatory being the only real source of dungeon shards.

meirami

I do like the random queue, but it needs tweaking. Having to do SKT and RD just to get into the epic dungeon queue is too much for new lvl 70s, and those two dungeons are much more difficult than MC, Kessell, or ToS. (And Kessell and eSoT should stop trying to wear their dads' clothes and go back to the skirmish queue.)

ilmenira

yes me! (i mean i like random dungeons queue)
it gives my tr shorter queuing time and my dc more surprises!
i admit i haven't been sent to FBI or ESP so far.

improvement could be to let fresh 70ies do something beyond random levelling queue and maybe add FBI and ESP to heroes accord instead of normal dungeon random queue.

lilrasta

the Que time faster which is the good things but the ERQ is the bad thing due most time its a fail pt...

well easy fix for this is just to move fbi , ESP to the Hero RQ along with Tong as doing those with random pt usually players "disconnect" or get their penalty on ...

reg1981

I do like the random queues but like everyone else I feel FBI and MSP should not be in that group of epic dungeons.

Also I'm YET to get an epic trial queue to pop, I normally get bored waiting and skip it.

Those running FBI and MSP are the same group that will be running T9G for the most part so why not keep them all in the hero's feast? Maybe in a few months it'll warrant another change as people recover from the lost bonding stats, but for now people are not happy.

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greywynd

I've never had to wait 30+ minutes for dungeon, epic dungeon, or skirmish to pop.

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wentris

I like random queues. I would like them more if epic dungeon RQ were split in 2 - "upper" dungeons - FBI / mSP with ilvl as it is now and "lower" dungeons - everything else, with lower requirements. I dont know how to split rewards between these two without hurting lower geared playerbase, but I believe upper dungeon RQ should give better rewards.

adinosii

They could have implemented the random queues is so many other, better ways - instead they chose this approach, despite the negative effects we warned about.

Consider for example the following approach: If they had implemented something like this we would only see a fraction of the complaints we are seeing now.

• There is a maximum limit on bonus AD per day (So, no increase in AD in circulation), but you only get any bonus AD for the first time you run any specific content. (So, no more 2x EToS)
  
• Level 70s get way less bonus AD from the leveling dungeons. (So, fewer frustrated lower-level players).
  
• Extra bonus AD for doing random queues than selected ones. (but you could still select your dungeons, it would just take more runs to max out the daily bonus)
  
• Extra bonus AD for being the the last solo player to fill a group slot in a random queue (Reward for being the "most wanted" class)
  
• Stronghold dungeon quests left alone,
  
• Temptation SWs and DPS GFs allowed to fill "Healer" and "DPS" slots.
  

Instead we got a piece of HAMSTER implementation.

greywynd

joe123thewayward said:

greywynd said:

I've never had to wait 30+ minutes for dungeon, epic dungeon, or skirmish to pop.

The epic dungeon queve is like that. Unless I use a premade party its a lot of sitting in the queve.

My longest wait has been about 5 minutes, tops.

luvirini

The forcing low item evel 70s to leveling dungeons is just boring. The only challenge is to not run into lava or similar. I tend to alt tab a lot and do things like read something with the cutscenes and come back a few minutes later to see what is going on. When the reaction to a boss fight is alt-tab out of boredom, things re not right.

mordekai

marv700#9957 said:

But but but queues are firing faster. That is all they care about.

But are they?

There's a finite number of players, roughly the same as before the change. So for every queue that fires faster, it follows that another fires slower.
You can only be in one dungeon at a time, after all...
And its not like there are suddenly hundreds more people lining up to join queues.

In fact if more dungeon runs are taking longer, because people are being random grouped into longer dungeons, and groups for higher end dungeons are being populated with people who might meet the arbitrary Item Level but not the required skills to complete them, it also follows that they will not recycle back into the mix as frequently as if they were speed running EToS.
There is also the leaver penalty, prohibiting people from quiting and rejoining the cycle...

So unless there ARE a lot more people suddenly queueing for epic random dungeons, I don't see how "Queues will fire faster" beyond the ones that only a couple of people were queueing for... and the reason they weren't firing quickly is simply that not enough people wanted to run them.

So... "Certain, less popular, queues are firing more often at the expense of the stuff people would rather be doing." is probably a more accurate summary.

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manipulos

I hate it
- Punishes me for wanting to run epic dungeons with my friends if we don't have the perfect party composition according to Cryptic, or some of them don't have all the epic dungeons unlocked.
- Punishes us for helping new players in our guild that are new to the game because it will be months before they have the required epic dungeons unlocked so when we run epics with them we don't get rough astral diamonds.

I could keep going on and on but many people have already said everything that needs to be said in this thread and other threads AND the 40-something pages of posts on the official feedback thread before the new system went live.

woezard

I do not like the RQs -- I am not a group person and the drama, childishness and just plain meaness of some ppl just makes running groups tedious and not fun. I would suggest that the devs allow at least 2 solo or private group runs per toon or at the very least let us choose btwn 2 or 3 dungeons or skirmishes from which one is randomly chosen. This would be more fair to those wishing to complete boon requirements and who prefer running certain dungeons/skirmishes more than others. Can someone tell me why (other than money) the devs always take away our easier means of gaining AD such as no ad for leadership/ no ad for the foundry/ and now no ad for solo or privately chosen dungeons and skirmishes..... It just makes you want to quit the game!

alleykate

My 11.3k alt would love to do a random epic dungeon, has all dungeons account unlocked but wait..doesn't have 30k frost resistance (not ready to put no.9 through river district and SKT yet). This means no epic dungeon random queues for that character despite being 11.3k. Seriously get rid of this frost resistance or just hand it out anyway with the unlock or change the random queue system so that FBI and MSP are separate. Running etos 10 times is so preferable to running the under 70 dungeons for AD.

wentris

alleykate said:

My 11.3k alt would love to do a random epic dungeon, has all dungeons account unlocked but wait..doesn't have 30k frost resistance (not ready to put no.9 through river district and SKT yet). This means no epic dungeon random queues for that character despite being 11.3k. Seriously get rid of this frost resistance or just hand it out anyway with the unlock or change the random queue system so that FBI and MSP are separate. Running etos 10 times is so preferable to running the under 70 dungeons for AD.

Periapt of Everfrost Resistance can be taken on all alts. Unless your alt cant do story line to Lonelywood, but then its not ready for FBI, mSP and CN anyway, even if it has 11k

majorcharvenak

Solo queing for me is fine. Only got pulled into mSPC once since using it. The rest of the time its been dungeons I'm much more familiar and comfortable with running. I do appreciate the role bonus and that's kept me coming back to the queues when I normally would have called it quits after my first go.

It is, however, a nightmare to try and run with my guildies and alliance mates since many of them don't have everything unlocked. The devs REALLY need to move FBI and mSPC out of the Epic dungeon queue and place it underneath Hero's Accord with ToNG. No sane person should pug those dungeons anyway and relatively fresh LvL 70s should not be regulated to the lvl dungeons to earn their daily RAD, especially if you allow them to queue for the dungeon normally anyway. Makes no sense. That's my two coppers.