Report System Abusers

reign

i just want to leave a feedback on the report system, and how it can affect innocent players, people can gang up on people with theyre whole guild and submit false reports, just because maybe, you killed them alot in pvp and dont let them get points, maybe people dont like how you flip items for huge profits, buy low sell high, i think people are misunderstanding what ' scamming' is, offering you a low price for an item is NOT a form of scamming, re selling an item for sky high price is not scamming, people simply put a price you buy it or you dnt you sell it or you dont,simple. alot of people have been getting falsely reported due to these system abuser and the innocent perspn gets chat muted for 24hrs, i think this shoould be enforce by punishing the false reporters, its not fair that because ppl dnt like the way you play the game or how you flips items you can have a whole guild throwing false reports on you, this system needs to change, i know it was done for the purpose of chat spammers on P.E but now ppl are abusing it,

i want to hear what you the players think of this.

ecrana

There's no perfect solution for reporting users when you leave it in the hands of users. You're basically at the mercy of petty and vindictive people. I assume you're idea for reporting abusers of the report system would be to use the same report system to report them. Who's to say someone else doesn't get reported for actually scamming and then reports their victim.

The whole system is flawed. There's no fix for something that relies on human reporting other than people learning not to behave like children on a vendetta.

armadeonx

One of the problems is that a lot of the reporting function is automatically enforced and not reviewed by a human.

Cryptic should collate information, not just on who is being reported, but also on who is doing the reporting - including guild info and friends lists. Where a person is reported by a large group who happen to all be from the same guild then it should be investigated in detail and where maliciousness is suspected by those doing the reporting, the very least that should happen is an auto-ignore on their reports going forward.

ragequittingdc

yea, I'm very careful with who I even interact with in-game for the reason mentioned above. a system that can automatically hit you with a ban based on quantity but not substance is just begging to be abused, and it's all too true that there is so much drama especially between guilds.

ecrana

I'm sure if they wanted to they could work in some variables using guild IDs. It would probably be a significant undertaking to rework the system. As it stands, it's a weak system that does get abused. I've known people that got chat banned because they said something that angered someone. That person than got his buddies together and reported him.

reign

i been buying tier 3 trophies for cheap and sell really, and im being callled a scammer, then theesd individuals spread false accusations, making others report me, alot of ppl on xbox dont understand what a mmo game is, the prices are what a player chooses it to be, based on supply and demand, and if there is no one els sellkng that item i got the righg to set a high value right? i dont understand why ppl get mad at item flippers.

ecrana

Supply and demand do set the price. Buuuuut if you're knowingly trading an item that you know has a value of 1000AD for 100,000AD you are scamming that person. There's a line between flipping items and ripping people off. Personally, I don't blame scammers completely for scamming. You're trying to make money and if someone's dumb enough to buy at overinflated rates than sell high. I blame people for not looking up the value of an item before buying it. Scamming is a 2 way street.

Now, if you're selling the first KoS lure and no one else has sold one, then yeah you can sell that for whatever you want because you are kicking off the market for it and it'll balance out in the end.

reign

exactly ecrana and trophies cant be sold in AH so you can put what ever price you want on them. if someone tells you
'that trophy is not worth that much' you tell them ' says who?' obviously a player made up the prices and can be changed by others players but flipping trophies is not in any way a scam or againt the rules.

randomdigits

One a related topic, I wish there was an easy way to report that player who one day bought all of the Legendary Lion Insignia packages (at below 400K AD each) and then put one of them at 5.5M AD trying to scam people who could confuse it with the Legendary Lion or Legendary Glorious Resurgence Mount pack both of which sell at over 6M AD.

I was looking for a way to submit a report but that requires right-clicking on a player, which in turn requires finding the player in game in the first place.

omegarealities

So are you asking for controls on the market? It is a slippery slope when price controls are put into effect.

kreatyve

randomdigits#2166 said:

One a related topic, I wish there was an easy way to report that player who one day bought all of the Legendary Lion Insignia packages (at below 400K AD each) and then put one of them at 5.5M AD trying to scam people who could confuse it with the Legendary Lion or Legendary Glorious Resurgence Mount pack both of which sell at over 6M AD.

I was looking for a way to submit a report but that requires right-clicking on a player, which in turn requires finding the player in game in the first place.

This is not a violation, CS won't do anything about.

ecrana

randomdigits#2166 said:

One a related topic, I wish there was an easy way to report that player who one day bought all of the Legendary Lion Insignia packages (at below 400K AD each) and then put one of them at 5.5M AD trying to scam people who could confuse it with the Legendary Lion or Legendary Glorious Resurgence Mount pack both of which sell at over 6M AD.

I was looking for a way to submit a report but that requires right-clicking on a player, which in turn requires finding the player in game in the first place.

Again, this falls under the problem of the buyer not the seller. If you're not willing to do research before you drop millions of AD, well maybe you deserve to get ripped off. I'm sorry some people aren't smart enough to look at or research what they're buying before they purchase it. The packs clearly state what is inside of them so this isn't even some obscure item where you have nothing to go off of for pricing.

omegarealities

ecrana#2080 said:

randomdigits#2166 said:

One a related topic, I wish there was an easy way to report that player who one day bought all of the Legendary Lion Insignia packages (at below 400K AD each) and then put one of them at 5.5M AD trying to scam people who could confuse it with the Legendary Lion or Legendary Glorious Resurgence Mount pack both of which sell at over 6M AD.

I was looking for a way to submit a report but that requires right-clicking on a player, which in turn requires finding the player in game in the first place.

Again, this falls under the problem of the buyer not the seller. If you're not willing to do research before you drop millions of AD, well maybe you deserve to get ripped off. I'm sorry some people aren't smart enough to look at or research what they're buying before they purchase it. The packs clearly state what is inside of them so this isn't even some obscure item where you have nothing to go off of for pricing.

Yep, just like in real life, do research and know what you are buying. Big Brother will not always be there to take care of you.

reign

exactlky guys that is not scamming ppl need to learn wat scamming is before making false accusations

randomdigits

Sorry, but here our definitions of scamming definitely differ.
To me all forms of cheating other players out of their valuables are scamming, for example:
1) Placing bait items on auction house using some of the existing game design flaws, such as:
a) cheaper item having visual design very similar to more expensive item design
b) cheaper item having name which is easily confusable with more expensive item
2) Buying out all of some rare item supply, placing one at a very high price mark and advertising it in chat as the cheapest item available in AH.*
3) Placing commonly purchased items priced with an extra zero added to their regular price, or priced extremely high in hope that someone would buy these by mistake.
4) Switch-and-bait where people advertise something expensive for trading in chat and then do a last moment switch in the trade window.
5) Promising to make multiple trade transactions but only completing the first one, e.g. when people advertise deals like 3 fangs for SMOP which could only be done in 3 steps.
6) (We luckily don't have it in NW) "Send me some money and I will double them" kind of scams.

I understand that some players may accept the above behaviors as a fair play, and I understand that in many circumstances game support would not be able to address such behaviors as they are hard to quantify (how do we differentiate scammer from people making honest mistakes). That does not make these behaviors better or more acceptable to me.

(*) P.S. I have a corrected example for #2 a few posts below; as stated above I agree it is not a scam.

reign

randomdigits#2166 said:

Sorry, but here our definitions of scamming definitely differ.
To me all forms of cheating other players out of their valuables are scamming, for example:
1) Placing bait items on auction house using some of the existing game design flaws, such as:
a) cheaper item having visual design very similar to more expensive item design
b) cheaper item having name which is easily confusable with more expensive item
2) Buying out all of some rare item supply, placing one at a very high price mark and advertising it in chat as the cheapest item available in AH.
3) Placing commonly purchased items priced with an extra zero added to their regular price, or priced extremely high in hope that someone would buy these by mistake.
4) Switch-and-bait where people advertise something expensive for trading in chat and then do a last moment switch in the trade window.
5) Promising to make multiple trade transactions but only completing the first one, e.g. when people advertise deals like 3 fangs for SMOP which could only be done in 3 steps.
6) (We luckily don't have it in NW) "Send me some money and I will double them" kind of scams.

I understand that some players may accept the above behaviors as a fair play, and I understand that in many circumstances game support would not be able to address such behaviors as they are hard to quantify (how do we differentiate scammer from people making honest mistakes). That does not make these behaviors better or more acceptable to me.

ok so 2 dont fall under scam because this is an mmo and prices are player based, who ever controls crtain item he can value it as much as he wants. if someone needs it they will pay for it, is not like the buyer will wait ages till the guy controlling the items stops merching them..

omegarealities

Sorry, I do not see 1, 2 and 3 as scamming. You may not like it, but there is nothing wrong with them. Buyers need to take the time and bid responsibly.

randomdigits

It’s not so much about me not liking stuff, as it is about calling things what they are. When a player acts in a way I described they typically realize that it is extremely disadvantageous for anyone and only a very fresh or mistaken player would accept their deal and wouldn’t want to immediately revert it once they realize their mistake.

Simply because the other player could have avoided the trap by being more careful doesn’t make it OK.

So yes, I consider these actions scamming. And, whether you and I like it or not, these are against ToS. (yes that boring wall of text, “you agree not to take any of the following actions: ... engage in any actions that defraud or attempt to defraud, scam or cheat others out of any items that have been earned through authorized game play;”)

randomdigits

reign#8741 said:

ok so 2 dont fall under scam because this is an mmo and prices are player based, who ever controls crtain item he can value it as much as he wants. if someone needs it they will pay for it, is not like the buyer will wait ages till the guy controlling the items stops merching them..

I must admit you are generally right, cornering market is fair. What I had in mind was something I saw in a different game (eve online) previously where certain trash items are no longer obtainable and scammers would commonly put the for sale at a very high price mark while creating an appearance that these items are highly valuable (in eve they would place a buy order at even higher price but in a far away location). In Neverwinter it would be equivalent to e.g. putting a single, i don’t know, [Wand of Detect Demons] for sale for 1m AD while spamming PE chat asking to trade that item for transcendent lightning... >:)

Thank you for your correction, and sorry about the confusion.

agilesto

Concerning the AH "scam" you should have a look here : https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1227096/calling-out-auction-house-scammers/p1

There's no such thing as a scam in the auction house, only opportunists that take advantage of buyers that don't pay attention whatsoever to what they're doing.
You can be scammed in a trade if the other is not giving what you were looking for, but that's why we have 2 confirmation windows.
Sellers on the AH wouldn't sell if there were not buyers. If you're willing to spend big amounts of AD, at least pay attention to what you're buying, simple as that. Buyer beware. Nothing against the ToS here.

ollybongo89

Neverwinters rng is a scam, been farm killing scorpions for 10 hours and counting, only had 1 venomtail poison drop, mega lame

omegarealities

randomdigits#2166 said:

It’s not so much about me not liking stuff, as it is about calling things what they are. When a player acts in a way I described they typically realize that it is extremely disadvantageous for anyone and only a very fresh or mistaken player would accept their deal and wouldn’t want to immediately revert it once they realize their mistake.

Simply because the other player could have avoided the trap by being more careful doesn’t make it OK.

So yes, I consider these actions scamming. And, whether you and I like it or not, these are against ToS. (yes that boring wall of text, “you agree not to take any of the following actions: ... engage in any actions that defraud or attempt to defraud, scam or cheat others out of any items that have been earned through authorized game play;”)

Where in the TOS does it say that it is a violation to put up a Ring of Sudden Deflect +2 for 1,000,000 AD?
Where in the TOS does it say that it is a violation to put up a Legendary Lion Insignia Pack for 5,000,000 AD?

Please back up your claims.

There is no attempt to defraud. They are not misrepresenting the item.

ecrana

randomdigits#2166 said:

Sorry, but here our definitions of scamming definitely differ.
To me all forms of cheating other players out of their valuables are scamming, for example:
1) Placing bait items on auction house using some of the existing game design flaws, such as:
a) cheaper item having visual design very similar to more expensive item design
b) cheaper item having name which is easily confusable with more expensive item
2) Buying out all of some rare item supply, placing one at a very high price mark and advertising it in chat as the cheapest item available in AH.
3) Placing commonly purchased items priced with an extra zero added to their regular price, or priced extremely high in hope that someone would buy these by mistake.
4) Switch-and-bait where people advertise something expensive for trading in chat and then do a last moment switch in the trade window.
5) Promising to make multiple trade transactions but only completing the first one, e.g. when people advertise deals like 3 fangs for SMOP which could only be done in 3 steps.
6) (We luckily don't have it in NW) "Send me some money and I will double them" kind of scams.

I understand that some players may accept the above behaviors as a fair play, and I understand that in many circumstances game support would not be able to address such behaviors as they are hard to quantify (how do we differentiate scammer from people making honest mistakes). That does not make these behaviors better or more acceptable to me.

This is how I see your list:
1a - scam that is the fault os a user for not checking item properly
1b - scam that is the fault os a user for not checking item properly
2 - good business sense
3 - scam that is the fault os a user for not checking item properly
4 - flat out scam. anyone that switches out an item that was an agreed upon trade is a scammer. so far the only thing i 100% agree with you on.
5 - same as 4. another flat out scam and just simply a thief.
6 - negligible since you said it doesnt exist in NW

I'm not saying anything is a fair practice. But there's a big difference between being fair and being a scam.

omegarealities

ecrana#2080 said:

randomdigits#2166 said:

Sorry, but here our definitions of scamming definitely differ.
To me all forms of cheating other players out of their valuables are scamming, for example:
1) Placing bait items on auction house using some of the existing game design flaws, such as:
a) cheaper item having visual design very similar to more expensive item design
b) cheaper item having name which is easily confusable with more expensive item
2) Buying out all of some rare item supply, placing one at a very high price mark and advertising it in chat as the cheapest item available in AH.
3) Placing commonly purchased items priced with an extra zero added to their regular price, or priced extremely high in hope that someone would buy these by mistake.
4) Switch-and-bait where people advertise something expensive for trading in chat and then do a last moment switch in the trade window.
5) Promising to make multiple trade transactions but only completing the first one, e.g. when people advertise deals like 3 fangs for SMOP which could only be done in 3 steps.
6) (We luckily don't have it in NW) "Send me some money and I will double them" kind of scams.

I understand that some players may accept the above behaviors as a fair play, and I understand that in many circumstances game support would not be able to address such behaviors as they are hard to quantify (how do we differentiate scammer from people making honest mistakes). That does not make these behaviors better or more acceptable to me.

This is how I see your list:
1a - scam that is the fault os a user for not checking item properly
1b - scam that is the fault os a user for not checking item properly
2 - good business sense
3 - scam that is the fault os a user for not checking item properly
4 - flat out scam. anyone that switches out an item that was an agreed upon trade is a scammer. so far the only thing i 100% agree with you on.
5 - same as 4. another flat out scam and just simply a thief.
6 - negligible since you said it doesnt exist in NW

I'm not saying anything is a fair practice. But there's a big difference between being fair and being a scam.

Can't see how 1a, 1b and 3 are scams. To be a scam, the seller have to manipulate the item being sold.

1a- There are tens of thousands of rings for sale on the auction house. They all look similar, some are worth less than others. If I price my low level ring at a higher price, how have I manipulated the item.

1b- Just because two items have similar words (i.e. "Legendary" and "Pack") how has the seller scammed the buyer by setting similar prices.

3- Adding a "0" to the end of a price just means the seller want more for the item. They have manipulated the item in any way.

reign

ollybongo89#3420 said:

Neverwinters rng is a scam, been farm killing scorpions for 10 hours and counting, only had 1 venomtail poison drop, mega lame

thats why you dont farm 1 certain creature, i have a rotation i farm. 3 tigers 2 scorppions and 1 for the talon, so i get a chance at 3 different trophies, i can make my rotation and get back to the 1st creature just in time when it spawns to avoid other ppl stealing you're rares.

ecrana

omegarealities#7219 said:

Can't see how 1a, 1b and 3 are scams. To be a scam, the seller have to manipulate the item being sold.

I disagree based solely on the definition of the word scam. The seller does not have to manipulate an item at all. If you knowingly have an item that costs 1000AD and you post it for 100000AD, you're trying to scam someone. If you post an item that you know could confuse someone at a price that's 50x what that item sells for, you're trying to scam someone.

I did not take his 1a example to mean a cheap ring that looks like a different ring. I took it more as I see an epic OBC listed for the same price as a legendary OBC. You're trying to get someone to buy something based off the name and hope they don't notice it's purple. But you're right with this example, it could or could not be scam depending on what the item is.

But saying these things aren't scams just because there is no set rule of price doesn't make it true. Yes, you can post for whatever price you want and if someone buys its on them. But selling snake oil is still selling snake oil. I just blame the buyer for purchasing the snake oil more than I blame the seller.

omegarealities

Maybe what make some people happy is denying the seller the ability to set a price. Eliminate the auction and let the seller sell only at a predetermined price. That way no one gets "scammed" because they can't tell the difference between Epic and Legendary. After all Orange and Purple are waaaaay to similar.

randomdigits

I'd like to give a quick reply without getting too much into an argument of classification. I believe that there are ways to scam people in the game, plus there are certain trading practices which some people may consider a scam. Whether players agree upon the universal definition is not that important (and impractical) as that there is a way to channel their feedback to game developers about the existing/perceived issues.

So my very first post should be interpreted as such: "I noted a suspect scammer in game, I wish it was easier to report one for investigation." Whether game managers would agree with my suspicion or not is not so important. If I'm the only one with that suspicion that might be ignored, if there are enough players agreeing GMs may act upon it to improve the game or warn the specific player(s).

omegarealities

The bottom line is this...

My perceived definition of a scam doesn't matter.
Your (everyone else) perceived definitions of a scam doesn't matter.
The dictionary definition of scam doesn't matter.

What matters is Arc/Perfect World's definition of scam.

But what has happened here, is that people have come here and labeled sellers as scammers simply because they disagree with a business practice.

reign

omegarealities#7219 said:

The bottom line is this...

My perceived definition of a scam doesn't matter.
Your (everyone else) perceived definitions of a scam doesn't matter.
The dictionary definition of scam doesn't matter.

What matters is Arc/Perfect World's definition of scam.

But what has happened here, is that people have come here and labeled sellers as scammers simply because they disagree with a business practice.

exactly i dont like being labeled as a scammer because of my legit merching practices

#DON AFFILIE

randomdigits

exactly i dont like being labeled as a scammer because of my legit merching practices

#DON AFFILIE

I you sure you were reported as scammer, not spammer? People generally don't like when somebody uses unreasonable portion of a limited shared resource (e.g. Zone chat) to extract personal value. So if you asked a few times to trade every 15 minutes that would imho not cause a problem, but if you keep pinging every 30 seconds that would clearly alienate many.

Form my personal experience of asking to trade trophies, many of the people who get them and might otherwise would be willing to trade don't even know their exact purpose and nicknames. So e.g. asking "wtb any unwanted trophies for 2 GMOPs" would bring your more trades and profit when e.g. "wtb venom or claw for a SMOP". Sure you'll get a lot of ogre bones and ribs, but you'll get something valuable to you here or there too.