Fix the lack of tanks and clerics.

bitt3rnightmar3

plasticbat said:

This has been the 'direction' for a long time. I look at my peers. People has been raising multiple classes for a few mods if not longer already. People used to play DPS class, has been raising support classes. People used to play support classes has been raising DPS class and other support classes. When people complaining about shortage of a class, the solution starts from them. Make a new character to cover the shortage.

Oh! We need strong DPS. Let me bring a GWF.
Oh! We need some DPS. Let me bring a TR or SW.
Oh! We need buff, Let me bring a DC.
Oh! We need a tank, Let me bring an OP.
Oh! We need a warm body. Let me see who still has not run today.

That's exactly the reason I made alts.

darthtzarr

armadeonx said:

expaxi said:

Your title highlights that we have only -one- healing class that is being viewed as viable for support. We are most likely going to continue to have a problem until OP and dare I say Warlocks are able to be competitive with Clerics. Until then, most likely we will continue to experience an imbalance.

I actually think OPs and SWs are competitive with DCs but most people are clueless as to the abilities of these classes. People run metas without understanding mechanics. They do it because others do it.

Or maybe it is because nobody needs straight healing, and they go with the class that has the biggest buffs. Sadly, there isn't a class in the game that beats DC at party buffs. None are even remotely close. If actual "healing" were required, the other 2 healers would see play (especially OP).

I also always laugh that everyone complains about support classes doing DPS, but everyone seems perfectly okay with DPS (SW and CW) classes doing healing or party buffs (well... debuffs).

I personally think that it has a lot to do with the ability to see your efforts. DPS have an immediate feedback in the paingiver chart (regardless of how inaccurate or useless it is). Tanks and supports are supposed to have one too, but they are broken in worse ways than the paingiver chart.

The Immovable Object chart displays mitigated values. This means that a tank that just got hit in the face and took 500,000 damage, but mitigated it down to 500 damage gets 500 damage on the chart. The DPS that just failed to dodge red took 500,000 damage, died, and now gets 500,000 damage on the chart. The most suicidal, low defense person on your team will win that chart.

The Most Healing chart displays heal values, including self heals and lifesteal. This means that in a good group, the DPS will likely top the healing chart with their own self-heals.

So in this way, tanks, and supports get to commonly be the bottom of every list, get no extra rewards, are blamed every time when things go wrong, and often have very simple, unexciting mechanics (press tab, hold shield up till stuff dies). What is encouraging people to play supports? Currently one of the main reasons people play supports is simply to get into dungeons. Everyone plays a DPS, so nobody needs more DPS.

The devs are attempting an experimental solution with the "role bonus" for random queues, but I personally don't have very high hopes for the way the system was implemented.

preechr

Wha?
Support classes are much more fun if that's your preferred style of play
Cleric was not the first class I rolled when I started because I wanted to get into dungeons, and that wasn't the reason my second class was a GF
Out of all the other classes on my list, the only other one I find fun to play is my Trapper

While I realize it may be unfair of me to highlight just a small part of what you posted that wasn't really even the point of your post, come on man!

preechr

This is on topic, as I said earlier in this thread, one of the main reasons I feel fewer people roll a support class is that the "meta" train of thought is that they are boring and hard to level
In fact, support builds are often much more challenging to play, requiring more effort while offering more to a party when played well than an interchangeable meta damage-dealer with a cookie cutter build

preechr

Support classes also require much less of an investment in gear to be effective in dungeons if you learn to use your class mechanics, whereas with DPS builds skill simply cannot make up for having all the right pets, mounts, enchants, gear, etc...

ladypeanut66

I agree with @darthtzarr here. Me, as a player who does not want to understand the game so profoundly as these theory crafters (like thefabricant and such) and wants to feel I do something, playing a DPS is the "only" choice. As a tank, I only ever see my failures, like when I don't hold aggro and the party dies or something like that. As a healer I don't do a thing because you are either 100% or 0% of health, and even in between these values, I don't worry, the self heals will do the job. As a DPS I go check the paingiver chart and see how bad or good I am doing, or I see these super numbers on the screen telling me I am doing some damage there. So, really, what I am saying is that it is easier to feel rewarded as a DPS than as a tank or support.

namelesshero347

For non-end-game dungeons, high-end tanks and healers can serve as main DD. It's like having an express pass to do RAD runs as DPS.

meirami

namelesshero347 said:

For non-end-game dungeons, high-end tanks and healers can serve as main DD. It's like having an express pass to do RAD runs as DPS.

But without the pug-queueing tanks and healers, those low-damage dps players would struggle even more to find a group. Isn't it just good that support classes queue and stay with the group even if they end up having to carry, as long as they still tank and heal?

namelesshero347

A high-end DPS tank can still "tank" - just let them go in first and do the first hit. Too many low-geared DPS want to look cool and run in ahead of the tank, or even lead the charge to the next boss, only to get one-shotted immediately.

A high-end healer that heals means less DPS. A healer that can out-DPS the DPS by a wide margin is better off continuing to DPS than heal and rez. The low-gear DPS can walk back from the previous spawn and think about what they can do next time to avoid getting killed.

I don't mind when my GF/DC is the main carrier in T2 runs. I only leave when people start doing stupid things. Like run ahead of my GF only to go down faster than a $2 hole and then ping incessantly for a rez.

armadeonx

I leave them on the floor. If you want to act like a fool you'll get treated like one.

asterotg

namelesshero347 said:

For non-end-game dungeons, high-end tanks and healers can serve as main DD. It's like having an express pass to do RAD runs as DPS.

For non end game dungeons a high end DD can act as a tank, too. Regardless of your class, runing a T1 dungeon with a 14k+ char you will be top DD, top healer and tank all rolled into one, if the rest is between 7-10k IL, most of the times.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

ollybongo89

Bit like my experience running tong, only have 80 seals so far, got to last boss 4 times now, then getting kicked, not gona be running that or any other dungeons for the matter.

ive done my fair share of dragging <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> players thru all the other dungeons, fail tong one time and bam kicked, im done with this game