treesclimberMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,161Arc User
People gear to get better, there needs to be a source of income to the game, the game doesn't run on esthetic visuals, probably in the future we will some kind of diminishing influence of stats, which is not a bad thing in pve if content gets adapted and surely not in pvp since devs can control the range of builds better. But one thing i do agree is removing guild boons, overloads it's fine, most guilds can purchase from alliance guilds, when it comes to boons there are people with for example defense, incoming healing and life steal boons, none of those can compare to HP.
I skipped a few pages, but I like that you are looking at PvP a bit, it's something that should be fun and currently is not. The main reason I think it is not as fun as it could be, is because of the great disparity of character strength.
Example, my close to BiS PvE toon goes in and wrecks the lower level toons, sorta fun for me but i'm sure it is not for them and it gets boring quickly...then I too get wrecked by the more serious PvP players, the premade groups and the juicers, probably fun for them but not for me.
The current PvP match has almost nothing at all to do with 'skill', it is about tweaking your toon to near exploit levels with stacking of things that were probably never meant to be stacked to see if you can go wreck the ones that did not stack or max out their toons yet....
I would much rather see a bare knuckles style PvP and would love to see the potions consumption limited or removed completely from the game, they trivialize the content in their current state...what are we down to 9 minute FBI's now...
I am unclear how the private Q helps at all, unless it let's me have a close and fun match while others are distracted elsewhere, I don't think people need yet another testing ground for PvP powers... Honestly you should scrap the 5v5 public Q and leave solo Q only and give Private Q rewards only one per day.
Well, if private matches count toward the Stronghold pvp daily then it's a good way of earning extra shards for barracks by getting pve guildies to participate in 'non-hostile' matches against people they know - some may even decide they like it and start queuing for public matches - which is good for the pvp community.
Please Do Not Feed The Trolls
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
2
kalina311Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,082Arc User
I skipped a few pages, but I like that you are looking at PvP a bit, it's something that should be fun and currently is not. The main reason I think it is not as fun as it could be, is because of the great disparity of character strength.
Example, my close to BiS PvE toon goes in and wrecks the lower level toons, sorta fun for me but i'm sure it is not for them and it gets boring quickly...then I too get wrecked by the more serious PvP players, the premade groups and the juicers, probably fun for them but not for me.
The current PvP match has almost nothing at all to do with 'skill', it is about tweaking your toon to near exploit levels with stacking of things that were probably never meant to be stacked to see if you can go wreck the ones that did not stack or max out their toons yet....
I would much rather see a bare knuckles style PvP and would love to see the potions consumption limited or removed completely from the game, they trivialize the content in their current state...what are we down to 9 minute FBI's now...
I am unclear how the private Q helps at all, unless it let's me have a close and fun match while others are distracted elsewhere, I don't think people need yet another testing ground for PvP powers... Honestly you should scrap the 5v5 public Q and leave solo Q only and give Private Q rewards only one per day.
Where/ what exactly is this lag free/ pet free testing ground for pvp you speak of sir ?? that we dont need another *sigh*
perhaps you should not skip and skim posts(by your own admission ) and read why the devs actually implemented it (private Qs) there are a lots of changes coming to mod 12b pvp and they need proper feedback
a 10 v 10 preset match in guantlegyrm is fun(also not to get stomped ) and has nothing to do with "TESTING POWERS"
-10000000000 to your suggestion to scrap the public Q
Quote from you
"I am unclear how the private Q helps at all, unless it let's me have a close and fun match while others..."
Bingo !!!!! a close fun match ... ? now why would anyone want that *major sarcasm*
so in summary you want to scrap the public Q and dont see a need for private Q
I got news for you latest dev stream hinted about more pvp maps that are ready in the wings where does that fall into your theories >?
I wanted to let people know what's happened with a few loose threads that are still hanging.
* Potions: People seemed to be pushing for fewer rather than more categories, and I appreciate that. It's what I would do if we were starting from scratch. But after thinking about it some more, I wanted to preserve the value of alchemy (I know, I know, much more is needed, but I didn't want to make it *worse*), which pretty much required it have a category separate from the elixirs. And I didn't want to nuke everyone's investment in various Event Foods (collapsing them with Stronghold Foods would make it hard for both to have a place) so I kept that category. That means we're at 7 instead of 5, but that's still way better than 27.
* Empowered DC Astral Shield: yes, it's really insane in PvP. We have a fix coming in soon where it gives 1% per level (instead of the current 3% per level) in PvP. It's still really good in PvP. We also slightly reduced the duration on it (10s to 8s) in both PvE and PvP, because the uptime was just too much (it was way too easy to get it to 100% uptime).
* There were some questions about the 60% AP reduction number. That 60% came from the simple fact that for a typical amount of Tenacity (for a well-geared player) you got about 40% of the other PvP stats, and 60% AP reduction. So it doesn't represent a change so much as a continuation. That said, if people test it and find it's too high or too low, we can certainly tune it. But my starting point was "about equal to what was there before" simply because there didn't seem to be a consensus for either raising it or lowering it from where it is now.
* After some more testing, and some more mulling over things, Rogue's Shocking Execution has been given a 25% increase in base damage to make up a bit for its losing its old (somewhat broken, see discussion above and in the other threads) version of piercing.
* The bug where Shadow of Demise was double-dipping on resistances has been fixed. This means SD won't be stupid good against heavily debuffed targets (that's the bug fix part), but because it's only dipping once it will actually be better against normal targets (ones that do have net positive defenses).
* The infamous leaderboard bug has been tracked down and fixed. Because the leaderboard math was also feeding into the matchmaking math, I'm hoping this will make the PvP experience much better even for players who care nothing about leaderboards. We can't test leaderboard progression in a truly realistic way internally, so when this fix goes live, it would be awesome if people watched their ratings and let us know if there are still any problems.
These changes are probably about it until the next module goes live on preview, at which point we should have a new feedback thread talking about the changes and what tuning is needed.
7
micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
* The bug where Shadow of Demise was double-dipping on resistances has been fixed. This means SD won't be stupid good against heavily debuffed targets (that's the bug fix part), but because it's only dipping once it will actually be better against normal targets (ones that do have net positive defenses).
Are there any defense net positive mobs with full ArP (85%) ? (in PvE)
* The bug where Shadow of Demise was double-dipping on resistances has been fixed. This means SD won't be stupid good against heavily debuffed targets (that's the bug fix part), but because it's only dipping once it will actually be better against normal targets (ones that do have net positive defenses).
Are there any defense net positive mobs with full ArP (85%) ? (in PvE)
Was it maybe being double penalized by the 3lvl delta 75% reduction?
I can't think of anything else... unless we're talking dino topple shields but I don't think that's what he means (or intends).
0
micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
* The bug where Shadow of Demise was double-dipping on resistances has been fixed. This means SD won't be stupid good against heavily debuffed targets (that's the bug fix part), but because it's only dipping once it will actually be better against normal targets (ones that do have net positive defenses).
Are there any defense net positive mobs with full ArP (85%) ? (in PvE)
Was it maybe being double penalized by the 3lvl delta 75% reduction?
I can't think of anything else... unless we're talking dino topple shields but I don't think that's what he means (or intends).
Not seeing it, only one reduction (right now on preview):
Was it maybe being double penalized by the 3lvl delta 75% reduction?
LoL, I should have known this thread would want the gory details!
OK, here follows TMI for my fellow math nerds: * Before the piercing changes, SD tracked all the damage you did (after resistances) and then did 50% of that (ignoring resistances). * With the big piercing fix, SD did 50% of damage *including* resistances (but had a big bundle of ArPen attached to it to make it piercing). That meant it was now double-dipping. * In the most recent change, I made SD track all the damage you did BEFORE resistances, and then do 50% of that (including resistances, and with its big bundle of ArPen -- ie, I kept the piercing fix). So now it is single-dipping again. * It turns out this is how HR Piercing Blade was working already (tracking damage you do before resistances, and, with the piercing fix, having the bonus damage include resistances, with a bundle of ArPen). That's why PB didn't need a further fix (post-piercing changes) but SD did.
So what this means is if your target *has* some (net) resistances, the change will make SD do more damage. That won't matter in PvE with full ArPen, but it will happen in PvP (the global resist if nothing else). But if your target has (net) vulnerability (and remember that, in-engine, vulnerability is basically negative resistance), SD will do less damage than it did during that brief period on live between the piercing changes and this recent fix, when it was double-dipping.
P.S. Nothing to do with either the 3lvl delta reduction or topple. At least, not intentionally. :P
Was it maybe being double penalized by the 3lvl delta 75% reduction?
LoL, I should have known this thread would want the gory details!
OK, here follows TMI for my fellow math nerds: * Before the piercing changes, SD tracked all the damage you did (after resistances) and then did 50% of that (ignoring resistances). * With the big piercing fix, SD did 50% of damage *including* resistances (but had a big bundle of ArPen attached to it to make it piercing). That meant it was now double-dipping. * In the most recent change, I made SD track all the damage you did BEFORE resistances, and then do 50% of that (including resistances, and with its big bundle of ArPen -- ie, I kept the piercing fix). So now it is single-dipping again. * It turns out this is how HR Piercing Blade was working already (tracking damage you do before resistances, and, with the piercing fix, having the bonus damage include resistances, with a bundle of ArPen). That's why PB didn't need a further fix (post-piercing changes) but SD did.
So what this means is if your target *has* some (net) resistances, the change will make SD do more damage. That won't matter in PvE with full ArPen, but it will happen in PvP (the global resist if nothing else). But if your target has (net) vulnerability (and remember that, in-engine, vulnerability is basically negative resistance), SD will do less damage than it did during that brief period on live between the piercing changes and this recent fix, when it was double-dipping.
P.S. Nothing to do with either the 3lvl delta reduction or topple. At least, not intentionally. :P
Thanks for the clarification and the engagement, much appreciated!
So SoD may do more damage in PvE only if you were not fully mitigating the enemy DR with your RI. Put another way, SoD will be more effective for lower-geared folks but quite a bit less effective for most end-game groups, where DR is fully mitigated. It's a fix to the double-dip, and nothing more.
In PvP it's a whole other beast. Not even going to touch that.
PS: We always want more gory details. The gory-er and mathy-er, the better-er
I wanted to let people know what's happened with a few loose threads that are still hanging.
* Potions: People seemed to be pushing for fewer rather than more categories, and I appreciate that. It's what I would do if we were starting from scratch. But after thinking about it some more, I wanted to preserve the value of alchemy (I know, I know, much more is needed, but I didn't want to make it *worse*), which pretty much required it have a category separate from the elixirs. And I didn't want to nuke everyone's investment in various Event Foods (collapsing them with Stronghold Foods would make it hard for both to have a place) so I kept that category. That means we're at 7 instead of 5, but that's still way better than 27.
* Empowered DC Astral Shield: yes, it's really insane in PvP. We have a fix coming in soon where it gives 1% per level (instead of the current 3% per level) in PvP. It's still really good in PvP. We also slightly reduced the duration on it (10s to 8s) in both PvE and PvP, because the uptime was just too much (it was way too easy to get it to 100% uptime).
* There were some questions about the 60% AP reduction number. That 60% came from the simple fact that for a typical amount of Tenacity (for a well-geared player) you got about 40% of the other PvP stats, and 60% AP reduction. So it doesn't represent a change so much as a continuation. That said, if people test it and find it's too high or too low, we can certainly tune it. But my starting point was "about equal to what was there before" simply because there didn't seem to be a consensus for either raising it or lowering it from where it is now.
* After some more testing, and some more mulling over things, Rogue's Shocking Execution has been given a 25% increase in base damage to make up a bit for its losing its old (somewhat broken, see discussion above and in the other threads) version of piercing.
* The bug where Shadow of Demise was double-dipping on resistances has been fixed. This means SD won't be stupid good against heavily debuffed targets (that's the bug fix part), but because it's only dipping once it will actually be better against normal targets (ones that do have net positive defenses).
* The infamous leaderboard bug has been tracked down and fixed. Because the leaderboard math was also feeding into the matchmaking math, I'm hoping this will make the PvP experience much better even for players who care nothing about leaderboards. We can't test leaderboard progression in a truly realistic way internally, so when this fix goes live, it would be awesome if people watched their ratings and let us know if there are still any problems.
These changes are probably about it until the next module goes live on preview, at which point we should have a new feedback thread talking about the changes and what tuning is needed.
Good work with the outreach and hard work behind they scenes we appreciate it a lot. The number of potions a person could use definitely needed to be toned down along with the DC shield. But I wanted to give you a few suggestions to do what you will with and maybe a few questions.
Suggestion: 1. Turn the global armor pen reduction number to 50%. This way it will be much easier to understand exactly how much you need to fight your opponent and this way we can have a bit more power so more people will be likely to die for instance Hunter rangers and TR's I hate them so much lol. 2. Make different leaderboards for each classes k/d and WIN/LOSS so we can more accurately see where we stand. 3. Please consider turning the radius down of Astral shield and pillar of power (or as I call it Island of power). 4. Maybe we should start to look at Guardian fighters seemingly unlimited stamina and combat hunter rangers with their 100% deflection chance if they are specced right.
Questions: 1. When do you guys plan on removing tenacity on gear and moving it to your character as a "global pvp buff"? 2. When do you think we are getting those control changes that were hinted? 3. Can you give console players a definitive date we will get chult?
Thank you again for keeping us informed. -Trent
Find me in game if you want and send me a domination/ gaunt invite. If you are good and im not busy ill play with you. Im not an elitist ill play with almost anyone.
Was it maybe being double penalized by the 3lvl delta 75% reduction?
So what this means is if your target *has* some (net) resistances, the change will make SD do more damage. That won't matter in PvE with full ArPen, but it will happen in PvP
I'm not a PVP player, but, I never saw, in PVE, in a Debuff group, SoD ever get "stupid good", i.e.: better than GWFs IBS or several other single target damage powers that other classes have. What sort of metric are you all using to decide what is OP? Because, there are an awful lot of PVE TRs have been waiting a long time to be thrown a bone here. After 6 months, we get a much maligned, although very modest buff to a capstone feat for one TR feat tree. A few weeks later it is yanked. It sure would be nice if we could get a little consideration.
Or, let me put it another way: I don't believe in using things that aren't WAI as a metric to rebalancing a class. I agree with the decision to get rid of the WWoB stacking. But, the only reason TRs were doing this was because they felt they needed to, in order to compete. You all have had 2 extensive threads and one much more recent bare bones thread about various things that could be done to help PVE TRs over the last *6 months*.
Not to sound bitter, but should we stop trying to give you all feedback? If you all have decided that PVE TRs are in a great place, and really don't need anything, you could just tell us that and save a lot of time that the TRs that have been tracking down all the bugs, making suggestions for improvements, and explaining why we need these addressed, have been spending on these issues.
Lilia Drakon - PVE Executioner TR She Looked Lvl 18
How much further do TRs need to be below other DPS classes before you stop nerfing us? Since mod 5 every TR has looked at ways of making ourselves on par to other equally geared classes. Every time that is taken away.
Is all this culminating into our 3 balances making us equals to GWFs? I sure hope so. The TR community has given idea after idea on how to better our class and all we have seen is negative adjustments.
PVP seems to be the root of most of these problems. Every time there is a rework of TRs it's due to issues and concerns of being too op in PvP. Except this time because of PvP our PVE TRs are the only ones hurting from the SoD nerf.
Clearly you've never tried to get in a group as a TR. Sitting there for over an hour because everyone knows a GWF does it better. Why pick the squishy low dps TR?
If all the work we put in for suggestions is falling on deaf ears let us know. We will just have to continue to find these OP exploits just to get by as a viable class.
Stop letting the PVP world dictate what happens in the PVE world and vice versa. No one should have their game turned upside down for the other type they may not even play.
* Empowered DC Astral Shield: yes, it's really insane in PvP. We have a fix coming in soon where it gives 1% per level (instead of the current 3% per level) in PvP. It's still really good in PvP. We also slightly reduced the duration on it (10s to 8s) in both PvE and PvP, because the uptime was just too much (it was way too easy to get it to 100% uptime).
Lol, I actually feel the people you get your information from are clueless do you just get you information from poorly geared players and people and just think yeah AS is OP lets nerf it (no offence)
ALLOW ME to explain why this is DUMB.
Todays meta is ALL CC (even though we ALL HATE CC) for example, 2 Courage break Trs, 2 oppressor Cdubs and a DC or trapper, no damage so Astral shield is relatively pointless in this instance,
BECAUSE we're all fed up of being stuck in 1 spot (Courage break TR) or being pushed around the node (Oppressor CDUB) we now run rainbow teams (as the name suggests never two of 1 class)
A GF, that you've apparently nerfed can easily 1 rotate my FULLY DEFENSIVE best in slot top DC on Xbox...
A combat HR can 100-0 me if I was to stand still (ESPECIALLY IF AS SHIELD GET NERFED MY WHOLE TEAM WOULD MELT...
A Renegade Cdub can 100-0 me if I let it too....
When you have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>TOP PLAYERS<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< playing against OTHER TOP PAYERS astral shield is a vital instrument to keep your team alive, I have a 2 second cool down on my astral shield and in those 2 seconds I'm literally always fighting for my life and fighting to stay alive WHILST SITTING IN SMOKEBOMBS, there is SO MUCH DAMAGE it's not even funny perhaps with the upcoming changes to piercing damage I won't have to worry about some classes anymore, but my biggest fear is a GF, the TOP DC's on xbox are building there character around surviving a 500k+ DAMAGE ROTATION FROM A CLASS THAT YOU'VE "NERFED".
You seem to be basing all your statistics on 1v1s, yes if 1 person is sitting on me they won't kill me AND THEY SHOULDN'T! taking down a healer should be a team effort, coordinating your attack to bring down the most BULLIED viable healer class in PvP.
You have made 3 classes near enough obsolete for the last 3 mods, Warlocks in PvP are laggy, Warlocks bargain is still so broken it's not even funny, GWFs are just terrible and run aimlessly around nodes and nobody will play against a paladin with the deflect damage loop that wipes your entire team and healadins are just face palm.
My biggest fear with the upcoming changes to tenacity and armour resist is that it's going to be a melt fest, GF's will run rampant.
GF's are the scariest most OP damage class out there right now, they can do STUPID damage with 2k armour pen LOOL.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I INVITE YOU (the Devs)<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
to look at a top pre made the best of the best against each other and base your decisions on that because half of these things you're considering nerfing and buffing have the potential to further kill the smallest community in the game
NO PVE GEARED TOON should come into pvp expecting to do damage or not die! It;s football and hockey THEY'RE DIFFERENT
NO 1 CLASS should have the ability to 1 rotate you with 500k+ damage with stuns, knock backs etc
IF you're standing on a node with astral shield up which usually has SMOKE BOMBS ALL OVER IT ANYWAY then the nerf is a nerf times 10000000
I'm literally SICK of literal NOOBS MOANING about things and YOU implementing them when there GAME KNOWLEDGE is PANTS.
THE MAJORITY of FOOLS that come onto this forum HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT!
Rip TRs pve i put a lot of effort on my TR and since weapon enchantment and loadout i really cant keep up with some gwf or hr even with stacking my power so what the hell i need to do can u devs can show me a video that u are doin and playing the class right and can compete with another class i need to know how you devs plays the TR i think i try everything and i just cant keep up
Tr, hits hard in pve, fix the bug, tr is op in pvp fix the bug, ive been playing the tr since NW came out on ps4. The tr is a class thats not like the the typical Dps class like the GWF l. If anything the Gwf needs to get fixed or corrected, when was the last time the tr got an upgrade in anything like a buff. Yet if the tr gets a slight edge of damage increase whether in pve or pvp. Let's correct or fix a bug. To be able to play the other dps classes takes some form of intelligence, Unlike the. Gwf whom is just cookie cut Dps. Why take away, nerf, correct, bug or negate any of the power moves "bread and butter" of the tr and make them totally non viable to play in pve or pvp because the player using the tr is good in knowing how to utilize the tr. It's a shame that the tr is an unappreciated character whom is always the scapegoat for getting fixed, corrected or "Nerfed".
Tr, hits hard in pve, fix the bug, tr is op in pvp fix the bug, ive been playing the tr since NW came out on ps4. The tr is a class thats not like the the typical Dps class like the GWF l. If anything the Gwf needs to get fixed or corrected, when was the last time the tr got an upgrade in anything like a buff. Yet if the tr gets a slight edge of damage increase whether in pve or pvp. Let's correct or fix a bug. To be able to play the other dps classes takes some form of intelligence, Unlike the. Gwf whom is just cookie cut Dps. Why take away, nerf, correct, bug or negate any of the power moves "bread and butter" of the tr and make them totally non viable to play in pve or pvp because the player using the tr is good in knowing how to utilize the tr. It's a shame that the tr is an unappreciated character whom is always the scapegoat for getting fixed, corrected or "Nerfed".
Translating to simpler English: "TRs are currently great in PVE and overpowered in PVP, so they should be buffed. GWFs can be as good as a TR, so they should be nerfed"
All this complain about TR in pvp but seriously i think less of the 5% nw comunity plays pvp so making nerf to the TR cause is ok on pvp and now is useless on pve lol serious
If you want to play GWF, play one and quit trying to get GWF nerfed. TR is not GWF, and never should be. I can only wish that GWF had the tools TR has, like a dodge.
My TR will trade his dodge for your GWF's WMS any day of the week.
Comments
Example, my close to BiS PvE toon goes in and wrecks the lower level toons, sorta fun for me but i'm sure it is not for them and it gets boring quickly...then I too get wrecked by the more serious PvP players, the premade groups and the juicers, probably fun for them but not for me.
The current PvP match has almost nothing at all to do with 'skill', it is about tweaking your toon to near exploit levels with stacking of things that were probably never meant to be stacked to see if you can go wreck the ones that did not stack or max out their toons yet....
I would much rather see a bare knuckles style PvP and would love to see the potions consumption limited or removed completely from the game, they trivialize the content in their current state...what are we down to 9 minute FBI's now...
I am unclear how the private Q helps at all, unless it let's me have a close and fun match while others are distracted elsewhere, I don't think people need yet another testing ground for PvP powers... Honestly you should scrap the 5v5 public Q and leave solo Q only and give Private Q rewards only one per day.
OP - Sunshine: 16000 IL
Casual Dailies
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
perhaps you should not skip and skim posts(by your own admission ) and read why the devs actually implemented it (private Qs) there are a lots of changes coming to mod 12b pvp and they need proper feedback
a 10 v 10 preset match in guantlegyrm is fun(also not to get stomped ) and has nothing to do with "TESTING POWERS"
-10000000000 to your suggestion to scrap the public Q
Quote from you
"I am unclear how the private Q helps at all, unless it let's me have a close and fun match while others..."
Bingo !!!!! a close fun match ... ? now why would anyone want that *major sarcasm*
so in summary you want to scrap the public Q and dont see a need for private Q
I got news for you latest dev stream hinted about more pvp maps that are ready in the wings where does that fall into your theories >?
I wanted to let people know what's happened with a few loose threads that are still hanging.
* Potions: People seemed to be pushing for fewer rather than more categories, and I appreciate that. It's what I would do if we were starting from scratch. But after thinking about it some more, I wanted to preserve the value of alchemy (I know, I know, much more is needed, but I didn't want to make it *worse*), which pretty much required it have a category separate from the elixirs. And I didn't want to nuke everyone's investment in various Event Foods (collapsing them with Stronghold Foods would make it hard for both to have a place) so I kept that category. That means we're at 7 instead of 5, but that's still way better than 27.
* Empowered DC Astral Shield: yes, it's really insane in PvP. We have a fix coming in soon where it gives 1% per level (instead of the current 3% per level) in PvP. It's still really good in PvP. We also slightly reduced the duration on it (10s to 8s) in both PvE and PvP, because the uptime was just too much (it was way too easy to get it to 100% uptime).
* There were some questions about the 60% AP reduction number. That 60% came from the simple fact that for a typical amount of Tenacity (for a well-geared player) you got about 40% of the other PvP stats, and 60% AP reduction. So it doesn't represent a change so much as a continuation. That said, if people test it and find it's too high or too low, we can certainly tune it. But my starting point was "about equal to what was there before" simply because there didn't seem to be a consensus for either raising it or lowering it from where it is now.
* After some more testing, and some more mulling over things, Rogue's Shocking Execution has been given a 25% increase in base damage to make up a bit for its losing its old (somewhat broken, see discussion above and in the other threads) version of piercing.
* The bug where Shadow of Demise was double-dipping on resistances has been fixed. This means SD won't be stupid good against heavily debuffed targets (that's the bug fix part), but because it's only dipping once it will actually be better against normal targets (ones that do have net positive defenses).
* The infamous leaderboard bug has been tracked down and fixed. Because the leaderboard math was also feeding into the matchmaking math, I'm hoping this will make the PvP experience much better even for players who care nothing about leaderboards. We can't test leaderboard progression in a truly realistic way internally, so when this fix goes live, it would be awesome if people watched their ratings and let us know if there are still any problems.
These changes are probably about it until the next module goes live on preview, at which point we should have a new feedback thread talking about the changes and what tuning is needed.
I can't think of anything else... unless we're talking dino topple shields but I don't think that's what he means (or intends).
And the same but with WR 21% debuff:
OK, here follows TMI for my fellow math nerds:
* Before the piercing changes, SD tracked all the damage you did (after resistances) and then did 50% of that (ignoring resistances).
* With the big piercing fix, SD did 50% of damage *including* resistances (but had a big bundle of ArPen attached to it to make it piercing). That meant it was now double-dipping.
* In the most recent change, I made SD track all the damage you did BEFORE resistances, and then do 50% of that (including resistances, and with its big bundle of ArPen -- ie, I kept the piercing fix). So now it is single-dipping again.
* It turns out this is how HR Piercing Blade was working already (tracking damage you do before resistances, and, with the piercing fix, having the bonus damage include resistances, with a bundle of ArPen). That's why PB didn't need a further fix (post-piercing changes) but SD did.
So what this means is if your target *has* some (net) resistances, the change will make SD do more damage. That won't matter in PvE with full ArPen, but it will happen in PvP (the global resist if nothing else). But if your target has (net) vulnerability (and remember that, in-engine, vulnerability is basically negative resistance), SD will do less damage than it did during that brief period on live between the piercing changes and this recent fix, when it was double-dipping.
P.S. Nothing to do with either the 3lvl delta reduction or topple. At least, not intentionally. :P
So SoD may do more damage in PvE only if you were not fully mitigating the enemy DR with your RI. Put another way, SoD will be more effective for lower-geared folks but quite a bit less effective for most end-game groups, where DR is fully mitigated. It's a fix to the double-dip, and nothing more.
In PvP it's a whole other beast. Not even going to touch that.
PS: We always want more gory details. The gory-er and mathy-er, the better-er
Edit: joking but good to see tr get a little love tho it'll still be bad
Suggestion:
1. Turn the global armor pen reduction number to 50%. This way it will be much easier to understand exactly how much you need to fight your opponent and this way we can have a bit more power so more people will be likely to die for instance Hunter rangers and TR's I hate them so much lol.
2. Make different leaderboards for each classes k/d and WIN/LOSS so we can more accurately see where we stand.
3. Please consider turning the radius down of Astral shield and pillar of power (or as I call it Island of power).
4. Maybe we should start to look at Guardian fighters seemingly unlimited stamina and combat hunter rangers with their 100% deflection chance if they are specced right.
Questions:
1. When do you guys plan on removing tenacity on gear and moving it to your character as a "global pvp buff"?
2. When do you think we are getting those control changes that were hinted?
3. Can you give console players a definitive date we will get chult?
Thank you again for keeping us informed.
-Trent
Or, let me put it another way: I don't believe in using things that aren't WAI as a metric to rebalancing a class. I agree with the decision to get rid of the WWoB stacking. But, the only reason TRs were doing this was because they felt they needed to, in order to compete. You all have had 2 extensive threads and one much more recent bare bones thread about various things that could be done to help PVE TRs over the last *6 months*.
Not to sound bitter, but should we stop trying to give you all feedback? If you all have decided that PVE TRs are in a great place, and really don't need anything, you could just tell us that and save a lot of time that the TRs that have been tracking down all the bugs, making suggestions for improvements, and explaining why we need these addressed, have been spending on these issues.
She Looked Lvl 18
Here is my Blog
Is all this culminating into our 3 balances making us equals to GWFs? I sure hope so. The TR community has given idea after idea on how to better our class and all we have seen is negative adjustments.
PVP seems to be the root of most of these problems. Every time there is a rework of TRs it's due to issues and concerns of being too op in PvP. Except this time because of PvP our PVE TRs are the only ones hurting from the SoD nerf.
Clearly you've never tried to get in a group as a TR. Sitting there for over an hour because everyone knows a GWF does it better. Why pick the squishy low dps TR?
If all the work we put in for suggestions is falling on deaf ears let us know. We will just have to continue to find these OP exploits just to get by as a viable class.
Stop letting the PVP world dictate what happens in the PVE world and vice versa. No one should have their game turned upside down for the other type they may not even play.
Lol, I actually feel the people you get your information from are clueless do you just get you information from poorly geared players and people and just think yeah AS is OP lets nerf it (no offence)
ALLOW ME to explain why this is DUMB.
Todays meta is ALL CC (even though we ALL HATE CC) for example, 2 Courage break Trs, 2 oppressor Cdubs and a DC or trapper, no damage so Astral shield is relatively pointless in this instance,
BECAUSE we're all fed up of being stuck in 1 spot (Courage break TR) or being pushed around the node (Oppressor CDUB) we now run rainbow teams (as the name suggests never two of 1 class)
A GF, that you've apparently nerfed can easily 1 rotate my FULLY DEFENSIVE best in slot top DC on Xbox...
A combat HR can 100-0 me if I was to stand still (ESPECIALLY IF AS SHIELD GET NERFED MY WHOLE TEAM WOULD MELT...
A Renegade Cdub can 100-0 me if I let it too....
When you have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>TOP PLAYERS<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< playing against OTHER TOP PAYERS astral shield is a vital instrument to keep your team alive, I have a 2 second cool down on my astral shield and in those 2 seconds I'm literally always fighting for my life and fighting to stay alive WHILST SITTING IN SMOKEBOMBS, there is SO MUCH DAMAGE it's not even funny perhaps with the upcoming changes to piercing damage I won't have to worry about some classes anymore, but my biggest fear is a GF, the TOP DC's on xbox are building there character around surviving a 500k+ DAMAGE ROTATION FROM A CLASS THAT YOU'VE "NERFED".
You seem to be basing all your statistics on 1v1s, yes if 1 person is sitting on me they won't kill me AND THEY SHOULDN'T! taking down a healer should be a team effort, coordinating your attack to bring down the most BULLIED viable healer class in PvP.
You have made 3 classes near enough obsolete for the last 3 mods, Warlocks in PvP are laggy, Warlocks bargain is still so broken it's not even funny, GWFs are just terrible and run aimlessly around nodes and nobody will play against a paladin with the deflect damage loop that wipes your entire team and healadins are just face palm.
My biggest fear with the upcoming changes to tenacity and armour resist is that it's going to be a melt fest, GF's will run rampant.
GF's are the scariest most OP damage class out there right now, they can do STUPID damage with 2k armour pen LOOL.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I INVITE YOU (the Devs)<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
to look at a top pre made the best of the best against each other and base your decisions on that because half of these things you're considering nerfing and buffing have the potential to further kill the smallest community in the game
NO PVE GEARED TOON should come into pvp expecting to do damage or not die! It;s football and hockey THEY'RE DIFFERENT
NO 1 CLASS should have the ability to 1 rotate you with 500k+ damage with stuns, knock backs etc
IF you're standing on a node with astral shield up which usually has SMOKE BOMBS ALL OVER IT ANYWAY then the nerf is a nerf times 10000000
I'm literally SICK of literal NOOBS MOANING about things and YOU implementing them when there GAME KNOWLEDGE is PANTS.
THE MAJORITY of FOOLS that come onto this forum HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT!
LITRALLY F.O.O.L.S
What about HR Trapper damage in pvp? Is so low...
You can half CC but please make something with this damage - it is horrible.
Not right now, but in new module. Please look into this theme.
P.S: i can make a lot of text explanation or video records of fights if you need.
Lets do a quick tweak to gfs and pallies....they're becoming even more unstoppable.
What about fast AP gain in PVP? Oppressors, perma Courage Breaker and other daily-spammers?
reducing cooldowns on dailies and on action points gain (just like healing depression )was already suggested/ mentioned and listed in this thread
Dc artifact Sigil (daily refiller )is going to need a nerf or a limitation on dailies per miniute
And no.
1. The ability to one shot a player from full health in PvP
2. Perma irresistable control via high recovery build + CB in PvP
3. Perma cc immunity in PvP via high recovery build + ITC
4. Near 100% deflection uptime with near 100% deflect severity via high recovery build + ITC
5. Near perma stealth
6. Near perma dodge.
TRs after mod 12:
All of the above except the ability to one shot a player from full health.
Yeah in PvP TRs need serious buffs.....
What the TR class really needs is a balance pass and class rework, not buffs.
Signature [WIP] - tyvm John
This is how it should work though:
Signature [WIP] - tyvm John