1. It's based on a guild, that has the maximum number of contributing members, where every member contributes the same and regularly. Sadly, this is a rare case. Many guilds work with something around 50-70% capapcity.
2. It does not include gated resources like shards and influence. Seals are not gated and a byproduct, which makes them easier to obtain.
3. It does not include the group effort.
4. The stronghold resources are not really relevant. They are produced automatically by buildings, which you have to have in order to proceed.
5. I'm not sure, whichstructures are included in your math. Is this including non-relevant structures like Support buildings or PvP buildings? Does it also include buildings, that are not GH, MP or boon structure, but that are still needed to proceed? (Requirement to have x buildings on Level y to upgrade GH, and so on)
6. If someone in a guild wants 1 boon on 8k, you Need a GH on 20 and the appropriate boon structure on 10. To upgrade you GH to lvl 20, you first Need a preset number of buildings on lvl 9, even if you do not need them. Most guilds build the Maximum number of possible boon structures, as these count. So you have to have more than 1 boon. You probably could instead build more production structures, pvp towers or support structures instead, if they cost less. But you still will have to include these in your math for 1 boon.
7. In a guild, to get your boon, you have to rely on others. If you do not want to invest more than without a guil, like in your example, then you have to wait longer for your boon. In this case you are at a disadvantage, when in a guild. The gain Needs to outweigh dependencies. (For example,I have met several payers, who are like me not willing to invest time and resources into relic weapons (though they are better than RD weapons), as you are highly dependant on finding enough payers for msva and ned to depend on them to not fail.
1
adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
edited April 2017
No, it's not a good idea (explain why)
I am in a SH 18 guild. We are working our way towards SH 20, but it takes time. Now, we have close to 150 people in our guild, some with a single alt, others with several.
In my own case, my primary alt is responsible for almost all my guild donations - I have two other alts in the guild (and 13 non-guilded alts) and they might participate in a daily influence run, but that's about it. However, they benefit from the guild boons - it is basically granted on a per-player basis - not a per-character one.
I belive this is a common scenario, and it makes a big difference when you are talking about boon rewards for a solo campaign that you would presumably have to repeat for each of your characters.
I just don't see a good reason to stay outside a guild, unless you are a sociophobe, and in that case a MMORPG might not suit you in the first place.
Even with solo-campaign boons comparable to the guild boons, a non-guilded player will typically be in a worse position than a guilded one - just consider the issue of finding a reliable group of people to run group content with. Something like that is so much easier when you are in a guild.
We are about to get Module 11-B. It is very much a guild-focused expansion. Sure, we have a new storyline, the IL changes and the loadouts, but all the rest is for guilded players only.
This includes
Stronghold Marauders - a new fun activity
Great Hall - a venue for socializing
Mysterious Merchant - a new source of near-BiS equipment
Mastercraft upgrades - a way to make BiS weapons, and near-BiS armor and accessories.
Sure, anyone is free to stay outside a guild, but he or she will be missing out on a few things.
So you could be ok with it if the cost and grind was brutal? As a solo player, a brutal cost and grind for the opportunity is all I'm asking for, personally. As it stands, there is NO OTHER WAY to make up ANY of it. Even if it was so brutal I could only stand to progress halfway up to 1 maxed boon, I'd be fairly content that at least there was a way I could slowly work towards.
I would expect nothing less than a grind. I don't have issue with the idea, but the system to make it acceptable to me needs more thought than just saying if a max boon takes this much than a max Solo Boon equals this much. It needs to be reasonably brutal grind and there are things that just can't be replicated.
You talk about the resources involved but leave out the enormous amounts of Dragonflights that go into getting to GH20. And that's just one piece of the puzzle. You try to equate seals to shards but shards are so much more time consuming to get than seals.
With that said, I'm not against the idea of it. It just needs to be handled with care and thought unlike most things that get thrown into the game.
First of all, I appreciate the constructive feedback instead of just trolling. Secondly, I know I have gaps in my knowledge of the whole SH process. I was trying to come up with a rough estimate to act as a start point. I didn't intend for my example to be a final draft. Thirdly, this is not just intended for solo players, this is also intended for people in guilds that want to fill in some gaps on their own. Fourth, remember this is for just one boon, nothing else. To respond to a few points:
2. It does not include gated resources like shards and influence. Seals are not gated and a byproduct, which makes them easier to obtain.
...
4. The stronghold resources are not really relevant. They are produced automatically by buildings, which you have to have in order to proceed.
5. I'm not sure, whichstructures are included in your math. Is this including non-relevant structures like Support buildings or PvP buildings? Does it also include buildings, that are not GH, MP or boon structure, but that are still needed to proceed? (Requirement to have x buildings on Level y to upgrade GH, and so on)
6. If someone in a guild wants 1 boon on 8k, you Need a GH on 20 and the appropriate boon structure on 10. To upgrade you GH to lvl 20, you first Need a preset number of buildings on lvl 9, even if you do not need them. Most guilds build the Maximum number of possible boon structures, as these count. So you have to have more than 1 boon. You probably could instead build more production structures, pvp towers or support structures instead, if they cost less. But you still will have to include these in your math for 1 boon.
7. In a guild, to get your boon, you have to rely on others. If you do not want to invest more than without a guil, like in your example, then you have to wait longer for your boon. In this case you are at a disadvantage, when in a guild. The gain Needs to outweigh dependencies. (For example,I have met several payers, who are like me not willing to invest time and resources into relic weapons (though they are better than RD weapons), as you are highly dependant on finding enough payers for msva and ned to depend on them to not fail.
2. This was a leap I know, I was just trying to think of a replacement that doesn't compete with SH donations. Really, I was originally hoping to have as little overlap between the requirements for this and SHs as possible. Perhaps another new currency in addition to "Not Influence" should replace Shards. "Not Shards"? If sticking with Seals, maybe if the numbers were just sufficiently outrageous? Also, maybe the campaign donations for this should be only from newer campaigns that SHs don't use anyway.
4. I did know those were auto-generated, I was just adding in an additional player generated resource that guild members would not have to worry about, to make it a bigger hurdle. Can't use professions to make AD or RP if you're having to pump out mats instead. Of course it would give an extra advantage to those with a dormant alt army.
3-7. I know it is a group effort, but I AM NOT trying to get something cheap or easy, I promise you. There is a line between too easy and not worth it, I'm just trying to find it.
I would expect nothing less than a grind. I don't have issue with the idea, but the system to make it acceptable to me needs more thought than just saying if a max boon takes this much than a max Solo Boon equals this much. It needs to be reasonably brutal grind and there are things that just can't be replicated.
You talk about the resources involved but leave out the enormous amounts of Dragonflights that go into getting to GH20. And that's just one piece of the puzzle. You try to equate seals to shards but shards are so much more time consuming to get than seals.
With that said, I'm not against the idea of it. It just needs to be handled with care and thought unlike most things that get thrown into the game.
Again, there are holes in my knowledge/experience of the SH process. Perhaps new, very difficult solo content to earn "Not Influence" and/or "Not Shards" would be in order?
I am in a SH 18 guild. We are working our way towards SH 20, but it takes time. Now, we have close to 150 people in our guild, some with a single alt, others with several.
In my own case, my primary alt is responsible for almost all my guild donations - I have two other alts in the guild (and 13 non-guilded alts) and they might participate in a daily influence run, but that's about it. However, they benefit from the guild boons - it is basically granted on a per-player basis - not a per-character one.
I belive this is a common scenario, and it makes a big difference when you are talking about boon rewards for a solo campaign that you would presumably have to repeat for each of your characters.
Are you saying you non-guilded alts get the boons too? I didn't think that's how it worked, maybe I'm misunderstanding you. As far as earning these boons I'm talking about, I was working with the idea of account-based to work out the details since someone in a guild could bring all their alts to bear on the challenge, even if they have to cycle them through the guild. Also, part of the motivation was to make boons available to less used alts of people in guilds. Per character would need a whole 'nother approach, and I'm not sure where to begin.
I just don't see a good reason to stay outside a guild, unless you are a sociophobe, and in that case a MMORPG might not suit you in the first place.
Even with solo-campaign boons comparable to the guild boons, a non-guilded player will typically be in a worse position than a guilded one - just consider the issue of finding a reliable group of people to run group content with. Something like that is so much easier when you are in a guild.
We are about to get Module 11-B. It is very much a guild-focused expansion. Sure, we have a new storyline, the IL changes and the loadouts, but all the rest is for guilded players only.
This includes
Stronghold Marauders - a new fun activity
Great Hall - a venue for socializing
Mysterious Merchant - a new source of near-BiS equipment
Mastercraft upgrades - a way to make BiS weapons, and near-BiS armor and accessories.
Sure, anyone is free to stay outside a guild, but he or she will be missing out on a few things.
You make very good points. Guilds are far more than just boons (or at least they should be). As such, it seems to me that offering a brutally grindy way to get access to a boon or two (or three) doesn't steal that much thunder from Guilds, nor threaten their place in the world. Again, assuming the cost is reasonably brutal.
Comments
I see several flaws in your math.
1. It's based on a guild, that has the maximum number of contributing members, where every member contributes the same and regularly. Sadly, this is a rare case. Many guilds work with something around 50-70% capapcity.
2. It does not include gated resources like shards and influence. Seals are not gated and a byproduct, which makes them easier to obtain.
3. It does not include the group effort.
4. The stronghold resources are not really relevant. They are produced automatically by buildings, which you have to have in order to proceed.
5. I'm not sure, whichstructures are included in your math. Is this including non-relevant structures like Support buildings or PvP buildings? Does it also include buildings, that are not GH, MP or boon structure, but that are still needed to proceed? (Requirement to have x buildings on Level y to upgrade GH, and so on)
6. If someone in a guild wants 1 boon on 8k, you Need a GH on 20 and the appropriate boon structure on 10. To upgrade you GH to lvl 20, you first Need a preset number of buildings on lvl 9, even if you do not need them. Most guilds build the Maximum number of possible boon structures, as these count. So you have to have more than 1 boon. You probably could instead build more production structures, pvp towers or support structures instead, if they cost less. But you still will have to include these in your math for 1 boon.
7. In a guild, to get your boon, you have to rely on others. If you do not want to invest more than without a guil, like in your example, then you have to wait longer for your boon. In this case you are at a disadvantage, when in a guild. The gain Needs to outweigh dependencies. (For example,I have met several payers, who are like me not willing to invest time and resources into relic weapons (though they are better than RD weapons), as you are highly dependant on finding enough payers for msva and ned to depend on them to not fail.
In my own case, my primary alt is responsible for almost all my guild donations - I have two other alts in the guild (and 13 non-guilded alts) and they might participate in a daily influence run, but that's about it. However, they benefit from the guild boons - it is basically granted on a per-player basis - not a per-character one.
I belive this is a common scenario, and it makes a big difference when you are talking about boon rewards for a solo campaign that you would presumably have to repeat for each of your characters.
I just don't see a good reason to stay outside a guild, unless you are a sociophobe, and in that case a MMORPG might not suit you in the first place.
Even with solo-campaign boons comparable to the guild boons, a non-guilded player will typically be in a worse position than a guilded one - just consider the issue of finding a reliable group of people to run group content with. Something like that is so much easier when you are in a guild.
We are about to get Module 11-B. It is very much a guild-focused expansion. Sure, we have a new storyline, the IL changes and the loadouts, but all the rest is for guilded players only.
This includes
- Stronghold Marauders - a new fun activity
- Great Hall - a venue for socializing
- Mysterious Merchant - a new source of near-BiS equipment
- Mastercraft upgrades - a way to make BiS weapons, and near-BiS armor and accessories.
Sure, anyone is free to stay outside a guild, but he or she will be missing out on a few things.You talk about the resources involved but leave out the enormous amounts of Dragonflights that go into getting to GH20. And that's just one piece of the puzzle. You try to equate seals to shards but shards are so much more time consuming to get than seals.
With that said, I'm not against the idea of it. It just needs to be handled with care and thought unlike most things that get thrown into the game.
4. I did know those were auto-generated, I was just adding in an additional player generated resource that guild members would not have to worry about, to make it a bigger hurdle. Can't use professions to make AD or RP if you're having to pump out mats instead. Of course it would give an extra advantage to those with a dormant alt army.
5-6. This is the sample SH I used for my calculations.
3-7. I know it is a group effort, but I AM NOT trying to get something cheap or easy, I promise you. There is a line between too easy and not worth it, I'm just trying to find it. Again, there are holes in my knowledge/experience of the SH process. Perhaps new, very difficult solo content to earn "Not Influence" and/or "Not Shards" would be in order? Are you saying you non-guilded alts get the boons too? I didn't think that's how it worked, maybe I'm misunderstanding you. As far as earning these boons I'm talking about, I was working with the idea of account-based to work out the details since someone in a guild could bring all their alts to bear on the challenge, even if they have to cycle them through the guild. Also, part of the motivation was to make boons available to less used alts of people in guilds. Per character would need a whole 'nother approach, and I'm not sure where to begin. You make very good points. Guilds are far more than just boons (or at least they should be). As such, it seems to me that offering a brutally grindy way to get access to a boon or two (or three) doesn't steal that much thunder from Guilds, nor threaten their place in the world. Again, assuming the cost is reasonably brutal.